U.S. topic: Interactive Brokers possibly an expat friendly brokerage and IRA account firm

[Jingthing]

This might be potentially be very, very useful for many American expats.

 

As is well known by now most of the major U.S. firms for brokerage trading and IRA accounts are actively trying to kick out expats, even those providing a real U.S. address. 

 

A common solution is Schwab which will (I think) switch your current Schwab account to their international business using a non-U.S. address (not all countries but I think they accept Thailand). You can also (I think) open a Schwab international account for trading and IRA after you're already an expat.

 

But now I have another lead of a firm I've never heard of. Interactive Brokers. It's actually very big so no fly by night. So far the information I have is that you can open a U.S. based account with them using a foreign address if you're a U.S. citizen or legal U.S. person otherwise. That's pretty amazing these days if true

 

They probably don't offer all the consumer bells and whistles that Schwab does but if you go with Schwab using a foreign address, you will be forced into their non-U.S. part.

 

There are complex tax implications on being a U.S. based account vs. international. Not that I understand them all. Just saying.

 

Anyway ... are there expats here using Interactive? If so, please share your experiences with them around these residency issue and if you happen to try to open a brokerage or IRA account with them as an expat based on this thread, please share your experience as well. 

 

 

https://www.interactivebrokers.com.hk/en/home.php

 

Tip for future expats currently with firms like Fidelity, Vanguard, Ameritrade, Etrade, etc.

Switch firms before you leave the U.S.!

Schwab seems to be the most popular but the special feature of Interactive Brokers (keeping a U.S. based account as an honest expat with foreign address) seems to deserve consideration. 

Edited May 14, 2018 by Jingthing

[lannarebirth]

I've been using Interactive Brokers for about 20 years. I began touting here for expats about 15 years ago. I had assumed that with all of its advantages that most people were using it by now. I haven't used it from Thailand for about 5 years now so things may have changed. When last I did transfers to Thailand from IB were a flat $10.  They were pushing some piece of hardware at that time a "security device" but I managed to duck that for a number of years.  If you are a trader, IB makes markets and has data and platforms for just about every financial instrument in every major market on Earth, done in whatever currency you prefer.

[gk10002000]

I use Etrade and am still in the USA.  I am not aware of Etrade having large issues with expats living overseas.  I certainly heard nightmares about Vanguard and Fidelity as brokerages.

[sukhumvitneon]

IB is the best brokerage firm I've ever used.  Highly recommended.  

 

Also, if you're American then you really need to look into Charles Schwab Bank.  Their high yield investor checking account has no ATM fees and reimburses fees from other ATMs, including overseas.  Those 200 THB ATM surcharges were all credited back to my account at the end of the month, in addition to the foreign currency conversion charge.  Free checks too.

[mogandave]

I have not had any trouble with Fidelity, but I use a US address.

[Jingthing]

I have not had any trouble with Fidelity, but I use a US address.

I do also. Very serious problems.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[mogandave]

I do also. Very serious problems.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

For example?

They’ve always been great for me.

[Jingthing]

 

For example?

 

They’ve always been great for me.

They are actively threatening me to either freeze or close my account which as it's an IRA would be devastating to me tax wise. Do some research. Fidelity is the worst.  

To add I've been with them for about 40 years. Infidelity would be a more apt name.

 

 

"Many US citizens living abroad have recently been contacted by their US brokerage firms to inform them that their accounts have either been frozen such that they can no longer change their investments or that they need to close their accounts entirely."

 

http://www.expatfocus.com/c/aid=1192/articles/financial/why-is-my-us-brokerage-firm-closing-my-account/

 

 

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

 

[mogandave]

They are actively threatening me to either freeze or close my account which as it's an IRA would be devastating to me tax wise. Do some research. Fidelity is the worst.  To add I've been with them for about 40 years. Infidelity would be a more apt name.
 
 
"Many US citizens living abroad have recently been contacted by their US brokerage firms to inform them that their accounts have either been frozen such that they can no longer change their investments or that they need to close their accounts entirely."
 
http://www.expatfocus.com/c/aid=1192/articles/financial/why-is-my-us-brokerage-firm-closing-my-account/
 
 
 
Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 
 
 
 
 

Yeah, a have a number of accounts with them including an IRA and I have not been threatened with anything.

My wife’s Roth was frozen for a while, but she just called and they unlocked it.

When do you have to decide to close it or freeze it?

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

Yeah, a have a number of accounts with them including an IRA and I have not been threatened with anything.

My wife’s Roth was frozen for a while, but she just called and they unlocked it.

When do you have to decide to close it or freeze it?
 

 

I don't want to go into such personal details here but it's been a nightmare. I strongly suggest people that haven't moved abroad yet to set yourself up beforehand with financial firms that aren't known to majorly mess with expats. 40 years ago I didn't foresee such issues. 

[55Jay]

You've posted about this on and off over recent years and Fidelity does seem to be an oft mentioned firm on the internet on this topic. 

 

How long have they been threatening to close or freeze your account? 

 

Have they?  If not, do you have any idea why not?

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

You've posted about this on and off over recent years and Fidelity does seem to be an oft mentioned firm on the internet on this topic. 

 

How long have they been threatening to close or freeze your account? 

 

Have they?  If not, do you have any idea why not?

Because they have not yet fully confirmed I'm living abroad although it's clear they strongly suspect it. I really don't want this thread to be about the painful details of my personal headaches with Fidelity so don't bother asking more questions about that on this thread.

 

It's more general that this really is a problem not only with Fidelity but other major firms. Some people think this is "fake news" promoted by  other firms trying to sell expat financial services and advice. NO! It is very real. People can try to fake out such firms (most of them) using a U.S. address, U.S. phone number, and VPNs but that might not necessarily work in the long run of several years or decades.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Jingthing

[55Jay]

Just now, Jingthing said:

Because they have not yet fully confirmed I'm living abroad although it's clear they strongly suspect it. I really don't want this thread to be about my personal headaches with Fidelity. It's more general that this really is a problem. People can try to take out such firms (most of them) using a U.S. address, U.S. phone number, and VPNs but that might not necessarily work in the long run. 

Oh, ok then. 

 

I had a run in 5 years ago (not Fidelity) and both banks/brokerage house were very abrupt.  They backed off and I'm still with them to this day.   Stevie Wonder can see my account activity is all Thailand all the time.

 

Good luck.

[ChouDoufu]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

They are actively threatening me to either freeze or close my account....

i got caught up in this.  after ten years of swift xfers to china, then linking to bangkok bank, somebody figured out i wasn't in the us any longer.

 

no freeze or closure here, but account is now restricted.  cannot purchase

mutual funds as they are for sale only domestically.  can keep the ones i have,

and reinvest dividends into the funds, but no new purchases.

 

no interest on cash held in core account as the fdic sweep is done to a money market mutual fund.

 

no restrictions on etf's.

[gk10002000]

21 hours ago, ChouDoufu said:

i got caught up in this.  after ten years of swift xfers to china, then linking to bangkok bank, somebody figured out i wasn't in the us any longer.

 

no freeze or closure here, but account is now restricted.  cannot purchase

mutual funds as they are for sale only domestically.  can keep the ones i have,

and reinvest dividends into the funds, but no new purchases.

 

no interest on cash held in core account as the fdic sweep is done to a money market mutual fund.

 

no restrictions on etf's.

Disgusting and sick because just because one is not physically standing in the US any longer, does not mean they are no longer a US citizen or that they are permanently out of the USA.  Many people choose to and are able to live abroad or travel abroad for extended periods of time.  Where one is moving about should have absolutely no bearing on anything.  Uncle Sam and the IRs will tax and report gains to the Feds and a US citizen is legally responsible for properly filing their tax returns. 

[mogandave]

Disgusting and sick because just because one is not physically standing in the US any longer, does not mean they are no longer a US citizen or that they are permanently out of the USA.  Many people choose to and are able to live abroad or travel abroad for extended periods of time.  Where one is moving about should have absolutely no bearing on anything.  Uncle Sam and the IRs will tax and report gains to the Feds and a US citizen is legally responsible for properly filing their tax returns. 

Yes, our tax dollars at work.

[NancyL]

We've been able to "work around" the problem of maintaining a U.S. investment account while living overseas by continuing to keep a U.S. address (a commercial mail forwarding service), continuing to us our U.S. credit union as a primary bank (doing ACH transfers to Bangkok Bank from time-to-time) AND giving our U.S. lawyer a POA -- one that was executed on a form acceptable to the financial manager's company.  They had a little heartburn when they saw that the notary stamp for our signatures was from the U.S. Consulate-Chiang Mai and not from a specific state, but they got over it, especially since the lawyer is practically within walking distance of the financial manager and drops by his office from time-to-time to sign forms.

 

All communication and decisions are routed through Hubby and me, either via phone or email with the lawyer copied.  He just ignores the communication unless he's told he has to go sign something, which doesn't happen very often.  Fortunately, the lawyer is an old friend and every year I have to remind him (well, actually his secretary) to bill us for his time as serving as our POA for the year.  It isn't much.  

 

So, I guess from the perspective on the investment company, the client is actually the lawyer, not us.  I doubt we'd be able to set up a new account with them using this "work around" however.  It's only because our financial manager didn't want to see us pull out our funds, I suspect.

[dukeandduke]

Hello everyone,

 

I dug up this old topic.  UBS has just told me that they can no longer manage my brokerage account.  I'm an American with a U.S. address.

 

Funny that for years while I was working here in Thailand, it was no problem.  Now that I'm retiring here and spending more time in the U.S., it's an issue.

 

Does anyone have another institution that is helping them?  Thanks.

 

 

[mogandave]

I’m with Fidelity and have had no issues, but apparently others have had trouble.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, dukeandduke said:

Hello everyone,

 

I dug up this old topic.  UBS has just told me that they can no longer manage my brokerage account.  I'm an American with a U.S. address.

 

Funny that for years while I was working here in Thailand, it was no problem.  Now that I'm retiring here and spending more time in the U.S., it's an issue.

 

Does anyone have another institution that is helping them?  Thanks.

 

 

What would have triggered UBS to have any idea of, or interest in, where you're staying or planning to retire to?

 

Open a U.S. account with Schwab while you're still in the U.S. Even later, keep the address of record and any phone numbers associated with the account as U.S. ones. And if logging in to the account from elsewhere, use a VPN that gives you a U.S. IP address.  Do all those things and you should have no problem.

 

Unless you feel the overwhelming urge down the road somewhere to be confessional.

 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

33 minutes ago, mogandave said:

I’m with Fidelity and have had no issues, but apparently others have had trouble.

 

That whole past deal with Fidelity and expats has been perplexing. A LOT of expats did have hassles with Fidelity a couple years back, and I think one other brokerage also... But some folks seemed to emerge unscathed.  Why???  Hard to know.

 

Suffice to say, AFAIK, with normal U.S. expat precautions as I listed above, people have not had any signif. problems with Schwab, Etrade, Vanguard and a few others.

 

For U.S. folks contemplating a move and/or retirement, take care of any and all of those kinds of things beforehand while you're still in the U.S., and remain in the U.S. as far as any interactions you have with any U.S. financial institutions. That's the safe way to proceed.

 

Edited February 19, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[mogandave]

 
That whole past deal with Fidelity and expats has been perplexing. A LOT of expats did have hassles with Fidelity a couple years back, and I think one other brokerage also... But some folks seemed to emerge unscathed.  Why???  Hard to know.
 
Suffice to say, AFAIK, with normal U.S. expat precautions as I listed above, people have not had any signif. problems with Schwab, Etrade, Vanguard and a few others.
 
For U.S. folks contemplating a move and/or retirement, take care of any and all of those kinds of things beforehand while you're still in the U.S., and remain in the U.S. as far as any interactions you have with any U.S. financial institutions. That's the safe way to proceed.
 

It could be that that some balances do not justify the amount of ATM fees that have to be refunded, or the additional work required to satisfy US reporting regulations.

If I had $50k in a money market account and was drawing $100 a week out of a foreign ATM, the house may not see the value in maintaining my account, particularly if the $50K represented the bulk of my account.

[Thailand J]

On 2/19/2019 at 12:12 PM, dukeandduke said:

Hello everyone,

 

I dug up this old topic.  UBS has just told me that they can no longer manage my brokerage account.  I'm an American with a U.S. address.

 

Funny that for years while I was working here in Thailand, it was no problem.  Now that I'm retiring here and spending more time in the U.S., it's an issue.

 

Does anyone have another institution that is helping them?  Thanks.

 

 

 

My Fido and Vanguard accounts were opened long long time ago. I used my accountant's address to maintain those accounts when I moved here.

I have not heard of Fidelity and Vanguard closing expat's accounts last few years. I assume that they have figured out how to accommodate expat's accounts without breaking the US laws, just my opinion and no way sure...so 3 years ago I took a chance, changed my address to my Thai address, no problems. High account balances may have helped.

I suggest the next time you go back to US, open an account with Fido or Vanguard.

Also check into Schwab Singapore account , Thai address is acceptable with  $25k min. I don't know how useful is the account, is it based in Singapore or US?

 

Edited February 24, 2019 by Thailand J

[NotYetReady]

I intend to use IB for the first time and I wonder if the there is no issue wiring funds from IB account to Thai bank account?

 

And likewise wiring money from Thai bank account to IB's account.

 

And what Thai bank offers the best transfer fees and forex rate.

Thanks!

[mokwit]

Have done both ways. Has to be to and from an account in your name.

[cmarshall]

Fidelity froze my account once they got wind of my living abroad.  I was able to transfer the assets to another institution.  I didn't take it personally nor did I expect them to take into account the fact that my account with them had been longstanding.  Businesses aren't sentimental.  However, since I worked in the investment industry I understand what is motivating their decision and why it has nothing to do with our supposed rights as citizens.  Investment firms are subject to regulation, the compliance with which is onerous for them and exposes them to various legal liabilities.  Therefore, they are obliged to take steps to show a good faith effort not to conduct business in a jurisdiction for which they are not licensed, eg. Thailand.  Otherwise they might face a nasty letter from some Thai agency demanding to know why, since they are conducting business in Thailand, they are not complying with Thai regulations.

 

 

[moontang]

My Fidelity account has been working fine for 15 years...I do have to sign the international agreement electronically, occasionally, but have never used a VPN with them.  Been here full time for five years.  Active trader.  

[dukeandduke]

At this point, I'd just like an institution to be honest with me.  Charles Schwab had multiple people tell me that they could service my account, and they took my money gladly.  Now they're telling me about restrictions.  A check was deposited a few days ago, and it hasn't cleared, for example.

 

One guy just told me that they can't sell U.S. mutual funds to someone who spends more than six months out of the country.  What the hell is that?  What about someone from another country?
 

[mogandave]

At this point, I'd just like an institution to be honest with me.  Charles Schwab had multiple people tell me that they could service my account, and they took my money gladly.  Now they're telling me about restrictions.  A check was deposited a few days ago, and it hasn't cleared, for example.
 
One guy just told me that they can't sell U.S. mutual funds to someone who spends more than six months out of the country.  What the hell is that?  What about someone from another country?
 

My wife can hold equities but not mutual funds in her Fidelity Roth.

It will likely take a week or more for your check to clear if you’re opening an account.

[Cryingdick]

It seems fairly obvious they don't want people taking money out of America. I am going to guess they don't want to let expats hold tax deferred mutual funds because of that. Trump is big on bringing money back to the USA and the dems are about to make a war on Wall Street if elected. 

 

Politics aside all of this is bad for the small investor. Suretrade is a company backed by the Swiss and based in the Bahamas that doesn't care and gives margin accounts that are 6:1 leverage with a deposit of $500. If you visit their website with in the USA you will be asked to check a box saying that they didn't intend to market their services to American citizens.

 

I am not sure what products they offer but this may be of use to people that want accounts with higher amounts of leverage and low barriers to open. The trade off no pun intended is higher transaction fees from what I know.

 

If you trade frequently something like Robinhood might be useful I am not sure how much they check into where you live but trades are commission free. There is a small charge for some kind of tax or whatever that is usually hidden with in the commission structure of companies with higher fees. I made a second account with them to get around the pattern trading rules. They asked very few questions online and I simply provided a USA address and phone number. I was with in the USA when I did it so have no idea if a foreign IP address sets off alarms, these days we can assume it does.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2019 by Cryingdick