Video: Road carnage - coach driver says "but for me people would have died"

[Nice Boyd]

5 hours ago, colinneil said:

 Both drivers were to blame, bus was traveling far too fast.

Concrete truck driver, not allowing traffic to pass before pulling out.

Concrete truck drivers are potentially killers every damn day, they drive with reckless abandon, No care anybody God’s first the roads

[tgeezer]

What the English version of the Law says is that " ... if two vehicles enter a junction from different directions at the same time, the vehicle on the left side has RoW, except when there's a designation of "principle roadway", in which case the vehicle on the principle roadway has RoW".
 
This is the junction of Highway 2 - the road on which the bus is running - and Highway 23 to Mahasarakham. Presumably, the road numbering and layout would suggest that the bus has RoW. Doesn't remove his duty to drive with care and attention though - even if that's a rare commodity here in Thailand. Is the numbering of roads sufficient to designate "principle roadway" in cases like this? No idea but how can anybody expect most Thai drivers to know which number road they're on?
 
EDIT; what KhunBENQ says is correct - there are no signs at this junction indicating priorities or "Yield/Stop" signs. I often go through this junction and it's always struck me as an accident waiting to happen.
 
 

We all drive on the roads here I presume and I must admit that it never occurred to me that priority would be given to vehicles on the left, it seems an unnecessary rule, road markings being much more effective. However it puts the bus driver at fault on two counts; he has not given way to the vehicle on his left, neither has he given way to the vehicle already on the junction.
Although it appears to be a T junction and one would expect the head of the T to have priority the fact that there are no road markings shows that that would be a wrong assumption to make. Also the barriers indicate that the police don't treat it as such.
The junction is a complete dog's breakfast and has not been thought through and would make a good discussion in the driving forum.


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[hobobo]

6 hours ago, ThreeEyedRaven said:

Regardless of who has right of way, when you see your way is not clear, you slow to avoid any chance of an accident.

Totally agree, as would most people round the world, except TIT. 

[connda]

I've got a challenge: Cite the Thai statute that determines what a driver must do at an intersection such as that, and which vehicle has the right-of-way.  No guessing.  Source the Thai law on the books government right-of-way rules.

My guess:  There is no statutes that are published and available.  But if there are, where are they? 

Yeah tgeezer, I like that comment - It's a "dog's breakfast".  What I find disconcerting about driving in Thailand is that as far as I can tell there are no laws.  Both the BIB and the judiciary simply 'wing it' based on which way the breeze is blowing and what direction the brown envelops blow.  I've never been able to find definitive links on the Internet to Thai traffic laws in either Thai or English. 

Edited June 5, 2018 by connda

[chickenslegs]

4 minutes ago, connda said:

I've got a challenge: Cite the Thai statute that determines what a driver must do at an intersection such as that, and which vehicle has the right-of-way.  No guessing.  Source the Thai law on the books government right-of-way rules.

My guess:  There is no statutes that are published and available.  But if there are, where are they? 

In post#21 Richard has quoted Act and Section of the relevant statute.

[connda]

1 minute ago, chickenslegs said:

In post#21 Richard has quoted Act and Section of the relevant statute.

No kidding!  I'll go back and check that.  Thanks! 

[connda]

5 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Road Traffic Act 1979 (2522)  - Part III, Section 51, 2 [In the case of turning right]

 

(e) at a junction, the driver shall let the oncoming conveyance in the same road pass the junction first, then upon considering that it is safe he or she may turn right'

 

 

Road Traffic Act 1979 (2522)  - Part VI, Section 71 [driving past a junction or roundabout]

 

(1) if there is another conveyance at the junction, the driver shall let the conveyance at the junction pass first;

(2) if two conveyances reach the junction at the same time and there is no other conveyance at the junction, the driver shall let the conveyance driving on his or her left side pass first; provided that at any junction where a main road intersects a secondary road, the conveyance driving on the main road has the right to pass first;

 

In this case one road terminates and joins another (at a T-Junction) which defines a minor road entering a major road. 

But, there are no road markings denoting such - Thus, it is possible that the 'give way to the left law' holds in this case. 

 

Thus the blame is actually dependent on whether or not this junction involves a 'Minor Road Entering the Major Road' (T-Junction) or whether it is classified as the meeting of 3 roads.

 

In reality - as with many accidents in Thailand, the contributing factor is the poor and unclear road design, absence of road markings. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey Richard - do you have the link to the Road Traffic Act 1979 (2522).  Personally I'd like to see both the Thai and English versions. 

[Wiggy]

6 hours ago, Just Weird said:

Rubbish.

Please elaborate. 

Edited June 5, 2018 by Wiggy

[Marley01]

7 hours ago, Just Weird said:

 

 

How fast was the bus going, then, was it exceeding the speed limit?

Does it need to be exceeding the speed limit for it to be dangerous???

shouldnt he be driving to conditions???

the speed limit for a road is the maximum speed but commonsense has to prevail and in OZ, even if below the speed limit, you can be charged if you weren’t driving to the conditions of the area.

[tgeezer]

Hey Richard - do you have the link to the Road Traffic Act 1979 (2522).  Personally I'd like to see both the Thai and English versions. 

When you find it you will not agree with the translation.
I googled Thai Road Traffic Act (Rachbanyat jarajon tang bok but in Thai we are not allowed to write Thai here) and one of the later options was www.thailawforum.com


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[mercman24]

ha ha i love you lot, so the next time a cement lorry pulls out in front of you its your fault ok, because its gonna happen sooner or later. buses and lorries, KINGS OF THE ROADS, i  see it every single day

[kannot]

7 hours ago, holy cow cm said:

Thai law says the vehicle to your left has right-a-way.

depends on road size

[kannot]

2 hours ago, tgeezer said:

We all drive on the roads here I presume and I must admit that it never occurred to me that priority would be given to vehicles on the left, it seems an unnecessary rule, road markings being much more effective. However it puts the bus driver at fault on two counts; he has not given way to the vehicle on his left, neither has he given way to the vehicle already on the junction.
Although it appears to be a T junction and one would expect the head of the T to have priority the fact that there are no road markings shows that that would be a wrong assumption to make. Also the barriers indicate that the police don't treat it as such.
The junction is a complete dog's breakfast and has not been thought through and would make a good discussion in the driving forum.


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Look carefully, Im pretty sure thats a hexagonal STOP sign highlighted in yellow for you.

[Happyman58]

8 hours ago, holy cow cm said:

Thai law says the vehicle to your left has right-a-way.

Yeah, you are right mate but do Thai drivers know that rule? They do even know when you are doing a U-turn you must give way to all traffic. I have seen cars stopping to give right away to cars doing U-turns. Other words they don't have a clue about road rules lol

[Classic Ray]

Contrary to road rules in many countries, drivers of large vehicles in Thailand think they automatically can impose right of way over smaller vehicles.

 

Unfortunately this habit fails when two large vehicles cross paths.

[tgeezer]

Look carefully, Im pretty sure thats a hexagonal STOP sign highlighted in yellow for you.

That sign says no u turn. You will see it clearly on the video news report. If vehicles had to stop there would be stop lines on the road. The stream of vehicles turning right into the filter created by the police have the right of way over the bus it seems because of that strange give way to the left rule.


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[Gandtee]

11 hours ago, Just Weird said:

 

 

How fast was the bus going, then, was it exceeding the speed limit?

It doesn't matter whether the bus was exceeding the speed limit. It was going too fast and ignored the fact that a line of traffic was coming out across the road. The bus should have slowed down and the cement truck should have waited. But this is Thailand where the 'Me first' syndrome prevails. 

[Just Weird]

11 hours ago, kannot said:

Doesnt matter...

Yes, it does. matter.  When someone claims that the bus was partly to blame because it was going to fast, the speed of the bus matters a lot, in fact, in that context, it's the only relevant information

[Just Weird]

9 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

It is not expected that all drivers drive according to immediate road / traffic condition?

Yes, drivers should drive according to the conditions but that wasn't the point of my comment.  Two posters claimed that the bus was going to fast at the time and, therefore the bus driver was also to blame!   My question to them was asking how they knew that and what speed was it moving at, something that they clearly couldn't know from a second of CCTV film.

 

 

[Just Weird]

8 hours ago, tracker1 said:

what speed limit ? the official one or the unofficial one ? but your right both in the wrong

I did not say that they were both in the wrong, my view is quite the opposite!  I was disputing two posters' claims that they knew how fast the bus was travelling and that was too fast, when they clearly couldn't know that.

[Just Weird]

1 hour ago, Gandtee said:

It doesn't matter whether the bus was exceeding the speed limit. 

If you bothered to read the context of my original comment about the speed and you will see that it's speed was the only relevant point.

[kannot]

8 hours ago, tgeezer said:

That sign says no u turn. You will see it clearly on the video news report. If vehicles had to stop there would be stop lines on the road. The stream of vehicles turning right into the filter created by the police have the right of way over the bus it seems because of that strange give way to the left rule.


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ok thanks, often the stop lines are totally  missing ie worn out also

[canuckamuck]

Driving in Thailand is very natural. When you are small you must do what you can to avoid the predators always using caution. If you are large or specially dangerous (rich, powerful) You may use more confidence, but always be aware that there are equals out there and a confrontation might not go your way. If you are top level, you will likely travel protected by your pack.

[electric]

We are a fickle bunch of readers. I would expect that if I'm driving on a major 6 lane highway, I would have right of way over anyone coming in from my left on a secondary road.

 

Choosing to pick holes in the bus driver's comment is slightly amusing, but ill directed I think.

 

However ......

 

If the cement truck driver had said "I chose to blindly follow the cars in front and turn onto a major highway, even though there was a bus coming at me"

 

then count me in the debate.

 

 

[colinneil]

55 minutes ago, electric said:

We are a fickle bunch of readers. I would expect that if I'm driving on a major 6 lane highway, I would have right of way over anyone coming in from my left on a secondary road.

 

Choosing to pick holes in the bus driver's comment is slightly amusing, but ill directed I think.

 

However ......

 

If the cement truck driver had said "I chose to blindly follow the cars in front and turn onto a major highway, even though there was a bus coming at me"

 

then count me in the debate.

 

 

What does it matter who has the right of way !!

Common sense is what matters, both drivers were in the wrong.

Bus driver going too fast, not looking at the situation, i am on the highway i am free to drive anyway i want.

Concrete truck driver driving out without due care and consideration of oncoming traffic.

[Seeker1953]

Tell me if I'm wrong, but the police blocked the right turn with those barriers. I showed the story to my gf and we agreed, every one of those vehicles that turned right did so illegally. They had to drive in the oncoming traffic's lanes till they could merge. พวกเขาขับรถย้อนสร 

 

Legally (???) every one of those cars & trucks should have turned left, drive down to a U-turn spot and turned legally. (I know, I know...I'm just saying what should have been done)....

I could not see enough of the road to be sure, but that's what it looks like to me. 

And, to be clear, the damn bus driver should have slowed down. 

[electric]

14 minutes ago, Seeker1953 said:

Tell me if I'm wrong, but the police blocked the right turn with those barriers. I showed the story to my gf and we agreed, every one of those vehicles that turned right did so illegally. They had to drive in the oncoming traffic's lanes till they could merge. พวกเขาขับรถย้อนสร 

 

Legally (???) every one of those cars & trucks should have turned left, drive down to a U-turn spot and turned legally. (I know, I know...I'm just saying what should have been done)....

I could not see enough of the road to be sure, but that's what it looks like to me. 

And, to be clear, the damn bus driver should have slowed down. 

 

With respect Seeker 1953 .... I think the barriers have been erected specifically to allow traffic turning right out of the minor road, to have a clear lane to turn into on the highway.

 

If you watch the first couple of cars turning before the cement truck, they turn safely and legally into an empty lane protected from fast highway through traffic by the barriers. That's my take on it.

 

 

[Bangkok Barry]

Note to the headline and story writers:

1 - There was no "carnage."

2 - It was not a tour bus but a regular route. Any idiot who can see the side of the bus would know that.

[electric]

Put yourself in the bus driver seat for a moment. You're cruising along a major highway at whatever speed (it's totally unknown from the video what speed this coach was doing, so it's really pointless to say "bus was going too fast")

 

Up ahead, you see a couple of cars turn right in front of you. Cheeky buggers, you think, that was close, but's it's ok. They made the turn ok.

 

Now, no way could you anticipate, or imagine, that the cement truck would be so stupid and suicidal to follow the cars. All of us, as drivers, have some expectations that other drivers don't really have a death wish.

 

If we slowed down every time we saw vehicles waiting to our left, we'd never get anywhere. In reality, none of us do this. We plow on, hoping like hell these other cars don't make a mistake.

 

This accident is totally the fault of the cement truck guy. He made a really bad decision to crawl across an intersection against oncoming quick traffic.

[colinneil]

4 minutes ago, electric said:

Put yourself in the bus driver seat for a moment. You're cruising along a major highway at whatever speed (it's totally unknown from the video what speed this coach was doing, so it's really pointless to say "bus was going too fast")

 

Up ahead, you see a couple of cars turn right in front of you. Cheeky buggers, you think, that was close, but's it's ok. They made the turn ok.

 

Now, no way could you anticipate, or imagine, that the cement truck would be so stupid and suicidal to follow the cars. All of us, as drivers, have some expectations that other drivers don't really have a death wish.

 

If we slowed down every time we saw vehicles waiting to our left, we'd never get anywhere. In reality, none of us do this. We plow on, hoping like hell these other cars don't make a mistake.

 

This accident is totally the fault of the cement truck guy. He made a really bad decision to crawl across an intersection against oncoming quick traffic.

Total nonsense, whoever you are, where ever you are, whatever you drive, you drive in accordance with road conditions/ situations.

You never just plough ahead at whatever speed and hope for the best, both drivers were to blame for that crash.