Mainboard failure while in hands of service centre - who is responsible?

[JungleBiker]

I took my >2 year old MacBook to a service centre (not Apple but an authorised dealer in NE Thailand) to have the battery replaced. 

They did "a diagnostic" before the battery swap.

I understand that this involved linking my MacBook to a computer in the US (or somewhere) that is able to identify any problems. 

No problems were identified. 

Indeed, before I handed my machine to the service centre, it had been working normally apart from the battery only lasting an hour or so. 

The battery was changed. 

The laptop could not be started (by the service guys). 

They put my old battery back into the machine, to check if the new battery might be a dud. But it still did not start up.

Eventually, it was concluded that the mainboard had failed. 

They said they could fix it if I paid for a new mainboard, >20,000 baht. 

I said that since my MacBook was working normally before I handed it over and it passed the diagnostic, then they must have damaged it while installing the new battery. 

They said no, the mainboard must have already been failing before the battery swap and the diagnostic did not go deep enough to detect the problem. 

Is their explanation plausible or not? 

How would you handle this problem? 

Thanks.

 

 

[SheungWan]

Cannot prove either way. Next step take it to Apple service centre.

[kannot]

Id go to the shop with a hammer, ask for your Cackbook back and then video myself  smashing it to pieces in their shop..................but thats  just me Im afraid

[zoza]

I had a similar problem a few months ago, and I was told that the service center would not supply any new parts, and that I would have to purchase anything that

was needed even if the part was damaged during the service.

as it worked out my laptop had only a ribbon attached incorrectly and the technician fixed this and all was fine .

this was a very well known company that was recommended to me and authorised

to service by the brand company in the US.

my next move would be to contact Apple. 

[BEVUP]

Yes these things do happen, & I would be PO on hearing 20,000 (practically a new computer )

 

I just got my Key Board replaced & now computer tells me to replace battery & it also is sounding like my Hard Drive might go 

 

I was there watching him swap the board 

[JungleBiker]

12 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Cannot prove either way. Next step take it to Apple service centre.

How would that help?

[JungleBiker]

3 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

Yes these things do happen, & I would be PO on hearing 20,000 (practically a new computer )

 

Keep in mind that I had already paid 13,000 baht for the new battery (that I have not yet had a chance to use because the laptop is still in their shop waiting for me to pay the >20,000 baht). 

[impulse]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUaJ8pDlxi8&t=1s

 

[JungleBiker]

10 minutes ago, zoza said:

my next move would be to contact Apple. 

I am trying to do that but I am in Laos not Thailand.

I called one international toll free number and I think I was probably talking to someone in Singapore. 

They told me to contact Apple in Thailand. 

I tried to find a way to contact Apple in Thailand. They don't have any email addresses. The toll free number they provide can only be used inside Thailand. 

I usually visit Thailand once a month during a weekend and then the Thailand HQ is closed. 

[KittenKong]

They said no, the mainboard must have already been failing before the battery swap and the diagnostic did not go deep enough to detect the problem.

Ho ho ho. Many Thai businesses will go to extreme lengths to avoid liability and paying out for anything. This seems to be a good example.

As for the absurdly high prices: next time buy a PC and save a fortune. Apple prices are just plain stupid and cannot be justified in any way.

On a practical note, you could try complaining to the local Office of Consumer Protection in the area of the shop.

[SheungWan]

20 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Cannot prove either way. Next step take it to Apple service centre.

 

8 minutes ago, JungleBiker said:

How would that help?

OK, I think you now have 4 choices: either pay the company asking 20k or take it to an Apple service centre, or another non-Apple shop, or bin it. My original suggestion assumed you have lost confidence in the shop currently holding the machine and maybe wary now of using any non-Apple shops. You are probably too far in plus the machine too recent to bin it. I recall having a Lenovo Thinkpad giving me problems just 2 years after purchase. One initial repair job and the problem returned. Complain to the shop who had fixed it? No. P/E it (ie dumped it)

[JungleBiker]

3 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

OK, I think you now have 4 choices: either pay the company asking 20k or take it to an Apple service centre, or another non-Apple shop, or bin it. My original suggestion assumed you have lost confidence in the shop currently holding the machine and maybe wary now of using any non-Apple shops. You are probably too far in plus the machine too recent to bin it. I recall having a Lenovo Thinkpad giving me problems just 2 years after purchase. One initial repair job and the problem returned. Complain to the shop who had fixed it? No. P/E it (ie dumped it)

I meant what would I ask the Apple service centre to do? The machine is already fixed. Do you mean I should ask the shop, that is holding my MacBook and is waiting for me to pay the >20,000 baht, to remove the new working mainboard (or whatever the correct technical term is) and reinstall the damaged part? And then take it to the Apple Service Centre and pay them >20,000 baht to fix it? I'm not sure what that would achieve. 

[JungleBiker]

21 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

Ho ho ho. Many Thai businesses will go to extreme lengths to avoid liability and paying out for anything. This seems to be a good example.
 

Yes, that is how it appears to me.

 

If I took a car to have a battery changed and while it was in the garage somebody accidentally smashed the windscreen, I don't think I would be expected to pay for a new windscreen. 

 

My understanding about fixing laptops is that you have to be very careful not to touch the wrong part because it could cause a short-circuit or static electricity could damage something. So it seems very probable to me that the repair technician made a mistake. It cannot be disputed that the mainboard failure occured while the machine was in their hands, during the period when the old battery was removed and the new battery was installed. 

 

Edited June 6, 2018 by JungleBiker
typo

[worgeordie]

13,000 THB! for battery, no wonder Apple makes so much profit.

regards worgeordie

[impulse]

22 minutes ago, JungleBiker said:

Yes, that is how it appears to me.

 

If I took a car to have a battery changed and while it was in the garage somebody accidentally smashed the windscreen, I don't think I would be expected to pay for a new windscreen. 

 

No, but if you took it in for a new battery and they found out that your defective alternator is what fried your old battery...  Or if, while they were replacing your battery, the hinges on your bonnet gave up the ghost from rust...

 

Mac's have a history of defects, some of them detailed in that video I linked.  It's not reasonable to hold a repair shop liable if one or more of them show up.  For example, if the main board crapped out while doing diagnostic tests designed to identify problems by stressing components.

 

You may want to Google your particular model and see if there are any recurring defects.

 

And, you may not even be asking the right questions.  Did they replace your battery with a new one?  Or your mainboard?  Or did they go to their bonepile and pick out a used mainboard and/or battery and charge you for new? 

Edited June 6, 2018 by impulse

[thedemon]

56 minutes ago, JungleBiker said:

 

Keep in mind that I had already paid 13,000 baht for the new battery (that I have not yet had a chance to use because the laptop is still in their shop waiting for me to pay the >20,000 baht). 

 

THB13,000 for a new battery?? Please tell me that is a typo.

[Peterw42]

I can appreciate both sides to this, I used to have a computer repair business, every now and then we would take something in for a minor repair and it would literally  "die on the operating table".

If the shop is, as you say, an authorised apple repair shop, that means you are dealing with apple (indirectly via their agent), I imagine apple would have a standard terms and conditions, liability for repairs. 

I would look at it as a problem between you and apple customer service.

 

As a computer technician, I would be initially concerned about a battery failing over a short period of time (2 years) and see that as possibly an indicator of a broader power or component problem, something is drawing to much current, overheating, a voltage is below tolerance etc. (changeing the battery, a bit like a new engine in a car with more power causing the old clutch to fail)

What is the current status with the failed motherboard, does it power on (lights, fan, screen), power on but not boot up (something on the screen). Motherboard has failed is a pretty broad diagnosis and could mean anything.

 

As I said, apple repaired your laptop via an agent that they authorise to do so. Take it up with apple directly. The remote diagnostics you mention may well work in your favour (if it was with apple) as they have a record of the operational status before their agent worked on it. Your situation is the very reason apple would do the remote diagnostics.

 

Edited June 6, 2018 by Peterw42

[chrisinth]

3 hours ago, JungleBiker said:

 

Keep in mind that I had already paid 13,000 baht for the new battery (that I have not yet had a chance to use because the laptop is still in their shop waiting for me to pay the >20,000 baht). 

JungleBiker, I know I am not being helpful here, but the below screen is the first page I came to regarding batteries for MacBooks. Even with a two year old model, it would be no where near 13,000 Baht.

 

When you contact Apple (Thailand) I would certainly mention what you were asked to pay for this.

 

[SheungWan]

5 hours ago, JungleBiker said:

I meant what would I ask the Apple service centre to do? The machine is already fixed. Do you mean I should ask the shop, that is holding my MacBook and is waiting for me to pay the >20,000 baht, to remove the new working mainboard (or whatever the correct technical term is) and reinstall the damaged part? And then take it to the Apple Service Centre and pay them >20,000 baht to fix it? I'm not sure what that would achieve. 

In the OP, you said "They said they could fix it if I paid for a new mainboard, >20,000 baht." And now we appear to have jumped to "The machine is already fixed" ???

There seems to be something missing here. Are we to assume then that you authorised the shop to go ahead and do this job? And now post-authorisation you don't want to pay for a job you authorised? The time to have had that dispute was prior to the job being done, not afterwards if that was how it panned out. Maybe we need a little extra clarification on the timeline?

Edited June 6, 2018 by SheungWan

[JungleBiker]

3 hours ago, chrisinth said:

JungleBiker, I know I am not being helpful here, but the below screen is the first page I came to regarding batteries for MacBooks. Even with a two year old model, it would be no where near 13,000 Baht.

 

When you contact Apple (Thailand) I would certainly mention what you were asked to pay for this.

 

 

I don't know if it makes a difference  but my MacBook is a MacBook, not a MacBook Air or MacBook Pro.

12,000 baht was for the battery and 1,000 baht for the service to replace the battery.

[chrisinth]

1 minute ago, JungleBiker said:

 

I don't know if it makes a difference  but my MacBook is a MacBook, not a MacBook Air or MacBook Pro.

12,000 baht was for the battery and 1,000 baht for the service to replace the battery.

Yep, understand but the difference between the hardware can't be that different, especially if the MacBook Pro is of a higher spec to your own Mac.

 

Disclaimer, I don't know Macs that well, it was just the vast difference in cost to what I saw to what you were paying that made me comment.

[JungleBiker]

33 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

In the OP, you said "They said they could fix it if I paid for a new mainboard, >20,000 baht." And now we appear to have jumped to "The machine is already fixed" ???

There seems to be something missing here. Are we to assume then that you authorised the shop to go ahead and do this job? And now post-authorisation you don't want to pay for a job you authorised? The time to have had that dispute was prior to the job being done, not afterwards if that was how it panned out. Maybe we need a little extra clarification on the timeline?

Yes, that is what they said at the time they informed me the mainboard was dead. 

 

Yes, I believe it is fixed now. 

 

I am not having a dispute.

 

I am trying to find out if the shop is justified in asking me to pay 20,000 baht before I pay 20,000 baht.  

[SheungWan]

18 minutes ago, JungleBiker said:

Yes, that is what they said at the time they informed me the mainboard was dead. 

Yes, I believe it is fixed now. 

I am not having a dispute.

I am trying to find out if the shop is justified in asking me to pay 20,000 baht before I pay 20,000 baht.  

They quoted you that price, you authorised them to undertake the job at that price, they completed the job. There is nothing else to consider other than payment and collection. Apart from the option of abandoning the machine. (which I do not think is the right thing to do)

Edited June 6, 2018 by SheungWan

[JungleBiker]

3 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

They quoted you that price, you authorised them to undertake the job at that price, they completed the job. There is nothing else to consider other than payment and collection. Apart from the option of abandoning the machine.

 

Excuse me sir, but your assumptions are incorrect. 

The communication with the repair shop took place 3 months ago.

I could not remember the details and I did not think they were particularly relevant. But since you seem to be having a go at me, I have just looked up the old emails. 

Initially, before the emails, when I was in Thailand and went to collect my MacBook, after the battery change, I was told they could not start the machine.

They said they did not know what the problem was.

They said they would carry out tests to find the problem.

I can't remember now but I think I went back the next day and they said they were still checking but had ruled out any problem with the new battery and thought it might be the mainboard.

I asked how much would a new mainboard cost. They told me the price but they said they hoped it was something less serious and less expensive. They would keep looking to find out what was the problem.

I returned to Laos. 

 

Then about a week or so later they told me by email: 

"Please be inform , We waiting for KGB MLB to test on your MacBook.

I will keep update status to you."

 

Then another 4 days later they told me by email: 

"Refer to your MacBook 12 , After replace new MLB the system power on now and seem the original MLB faulty.

MLB cost is 23,300 baht.

Please advise for your decision."

 

They are still waiting for my decision. 

 

Hope you're happy now? 

 

[KittenKong]

Call me a cynical and suspicious old fool if you like, but this sounds rather like a scam to me.

The cost of an official replacement battery seems to be around USD130-200, or 7000B max, plus taxes. You have been charged double that, or more. Why?

On top of that once the repair is done they suddenly find a major fault with the device. It takes them days to work out where the problem is (why?). They fit a new motherboard to test it and having fitted it they want to know if you are willing to pay 20,000B for it? But who fits a brand new part costing 20,000B just as a test? Something does not add up there.

I suspect that there is nothing wrong with the old motherboard, and that if you do pay the 20,000B you will just get your device back with a new battery and the original motherboard, and possibly some broken motherboard from a completely different machine as "proof" that they have replaced it.

[KittenKong]

JungleBiker, I know I am not being helpful here, but the below screen is the first page I came to regarding batteries for MacBooks. Even with a two year old model, it would be no where near 13,000 Baht

Those Lazada ads may have "official" or "original" all over them but they are surely no such thing. I'm not saying that there is necessarily anything wrong with those batteries (I fitted an unofficial Lazada replacement battery in my Samsung tablet, and it is fine) but you wont be getting the same warranty as an official one at that price, and the replacement battery may not last more than a few weeks or months.

Which isn't to say that official batteries are not usually way overpriced, especially Apple ones.

Edited June 7, 2018 by KittenKong

[chrisinth]

2 hours ago, KittenKong said:

Those Lazada ads may have "official" or "original" all over them but they are surely no such thing. I'm not saying that there is necessarily anything wrong with those batteries (I fitted an unofficial Lazada replacement battery in my Samsung tablet, and it is fine) but you wont be getting the same warranty as an official one at that price, and the replacement battery may not last more than a few weeks or months.

Which isn't to say that official batteries are not usually way overpriced, especially Apple ones.

Yep, I understand that, I used Lazada as a reference to battery prices only, first page open and a screenshot taken. Also understand that with warranty the price will increase; I was just taken aback with the 12,000 baht for a new battery. Even taken aback with the 1,000 baht to replace it.

[JungleBiker]

On 6/7/2018 at 8:12 AM, KittenKong said:

Call me a cynical and suspicious old fool if you like, but this sounds rather like a scam to me.

The cost of an official replacement battery seems to be around USD130-200, or 7000B max, plus taxes. You have been charged double that, or more. Why?

On top of that once the repair is done they suddenly find a major fault with the device. It takes them days to work out where the problem is (why?). They fit a new motherboard to test it and having fitted it they want to know if you are willing to pay 20,000B for it? But who fits a brand new part costing 20,000B just as a test? Something does not add up there.

I suspect that there is nothing wrong with the old motherboard, and that if you do pay the 20,000B you will just get your device back with a new battery and the original motherboard, and possibly some broken motherboard from a completely different machine as "proof" that they have replaced it.

 

Thanks for the warning. I will try to find out how can I be sure any new parts really are new. They have serial numbers and there ought to be some kind of traceability system but whether or not I can access that I don't know, yet.  

 

FYI, the warranty for the new parts is only 90 days. I would have expected it to be 1 year like the original laptop. 

 

As you might imagine, I am not happy that I am expected to pay a total of 36,300 baht to keep my MacBook going when it was only just over 2 years old. 

 

Regarding the price of the new battery. When I first went to inquire about the price, I was told that due to the compact/integrated design, they would also have to replace the keyboard. This was included in the 13,000 baht.

 

The "funny" thing is that the first time I went to collect my Macbook after the supposed battery change, I saw the new keyboard but obviously could not see the new battery inside. I took it away and then in the evening I noticed the battery drained very quickly. I checked in the system and found my laptop still contained the original battery. The shop had screwed up. It seemed to be a case of "too many cooks spoil the broth" (I think cooks not crooks). I took it back. They apologised. Then they ordered the new battery! A month later, I returned to get the new battery installed and then the new problem arose (the failed mainboard).

 

I don't know how they managed to change the keyboard without changing the battery if it was necessary to change the keyboard to change the battery! And did they put in a second new keyboard when they finally did change the battery? I didn't ask. I will ask next time.   

 

 

 

 

[JungleBiker]

On 6/6/2018 at 2:36 PM, JungleBiker said:

 

Then another 4 days later they told me by email: 

"Refer to your MacBook 12 , After replace new MLB the system power on now and seem the original MLB faulty.

MLB cost is 23,300 baht.

Please advise for your decision."

 

They are still waiting for my decision. 

 

 

Hi Sheung Wan, 

 

It seems I misunderstood the email above from the shop. You were on the right track regarding authorising the repair. I contacted the shop yesterday. I asked them if it was okay for me to go to their shop tomorrow (Sat), pay the 23,300 baht, and pick up my MacBook. They replied: 

 

Your's Macbook12” still not replace new MLB yet, I’m waiting confirmation from you. 

By the way if you willing to replace new MLB, I can order part from Apple to test on your MacBook to make sure no more issue.

Then you can pay for new MLB when you come to collect your MacBook.

 

I hope you can at least see why I misunderstood the earlier email? 

JB.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2018 by JungleBiker

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, JungleBiker said:

Hi Sheung Wan, 

It seems I mistunderstood the email above from the shop. You were on the right track regarding authorising the repair. I contacted the shop yesterday. I asked them if it was okay for me to go to their shop tomorrow (Sat), pay the 23,300 baht, and pick up my MacBook. They replied: 

Your's Macbook12” still not replace new MLB yet, I’m waiting confirmation from you. 

By the way if you willing to replace new MLB, I can order part from Apple to test on your MacBook to make sure no more issue.

Then you can pay for new MLB when you come to collect your MacBook.

I hope you can at least see why I misunderstood the earlier email? 

JB.

No worries.

My personal opinion now, with the additional information reported by you that you found the battery had not been originally replaced by the shop, is that I would not authorise the additional work to be done by that shop and take the machine elsewhere.