Another change for U.S. Citizens.

[CMBob]

On 7/11/2018 at 11:33 AM, silverhawk_usa said:

Here is the misperception that I see repeated over and over on this issue.  The affidavit that one gets from the U.S. Consulate is in no way proof of your income.    YOU are taking an oath and signing a document that states YOU swear to the amount of income YOU claim.  The Consulate is only giving you, and certifying the oath and affidavit.  The U.S. Consulate is not guaranteeing anything. 

Agree although the Consulate is guaranteeing that the person (name and passport number) is in fact the person who signed the document.  The form itself contains no language at all that a consulate or embassy is verifying any of the substantive information in the affidavit itself.  I have no idea how most countries decided to make a signer present proof of the income they claim in the affidavit but, for whatever reason, the US has not done that.

And, until there are repeated reports of CM Immigration requiring US citizens (who rely on the income affidavit for their annual extension based on retirement) to present such proof to CM Immigration, I remain skeptical that there has been any general change of policy at CM Immigration about this.  Time will tell. 

[Vacuum]

On 7/13/2018 at 8:42 PM, NancyL said:

Hire a visa agent.  

.....and feed the corruption?

[chingmai331]

Feed the corruption and get the one-year visa extension OR don't feed the corruption and get NO one-year visa extension?  

Up to U.

 

 

[NancyL]

Or make a trip to Vientiane and get a 90-day O visa there, return to Chiang Mai and go through the normal process to get your one year extension due to retirement or marriage during the final 45 days of that 90 day visa.   If you know what you're doing, this first 12-month extension should be just like everyone else's annual extension. 

 

"They" have it figured out just how much it costs in terms of out-of-pocket expense and inconvenience to make a couple day trip to Vientiane to get a 90-day O visa and that's why the agents charge so much for a visa conversion here in Chiang Mai. 

[Vacuum]

51 minutes ago, chingmai331 said:

Feed the corruption and get the one-year visa extension OR don't feed the corruption and get NO one-year visa extension?  

Up to U.

 

 

I've never fed the corruption and never had any problems getting the one-year extension.

[kurtmartens]

12 hours ago, CMBob said:

Agree although the Consulate is guaranteeing that the person (name and passport number) is in fact the person who signed the document.  The form itself contains no language at all that a consulate or embassy is verifying any of the substantive information in the affidavit itself.  I have no idea how most countries decided to make a signer present proof of the income they claim in the affidavit but, for whatever reason, the US has not done that.

And, until there are repeated reports of CM Immigration requiring US citizens (who rely on the income affidavit for their annual extension based on retirement) to present such proof to CM Immigration, I remain skeptical that there has been any general change of policy at CM Immigration about this.  Time will tell. 

This was quite a pain for my parents this month.  They have "moved" to Chiangmai for a year to stay with us (really the grandkids - LOL) and even with our fixer (who has never had a problem at Immigration before) my parents had to submit banking proof of their social security and pensions to Immigration (plus my birth certificate to prove I was their sone who they were living with, not sure why that mattered.).  Regardless of already going to the Consulate and getting the affidavit sworn to, etc. 

 

TIT, but for once I found the whole process a bit silly.  Why Immigration wanted banking proof PLUS the sworn and notarized statement seems ... overkill.  But, hey ... not my country I suppose.

[kurtmartens]

On 7/14/2018 at 6:21 AM, missoura said:

Recently, I have been watching a program on Netflix called Border Security. Basically, it shows how officials deal with people trying to enter the states. Many of these airline passengers try to pull the same stunts that a few Westerns do here in Thailand.

 

One couple from Africa tried to use a personal check from a friend to show that they had enough money to enter America. Passengers from a SEA country had packed raw meat in their suitcase.  One young man had $400 for a 3-week tour of America. The list goes on.

 

The program is worth a watch and here is a personal hint about border security in America. Don’t bother to pack any ‘nam prik’ in your suitcase. It gets tossed every time and my wife gets aggravated.

 

We expats have to jump through the hoops in order to stay in Thailand and it is a pain in the butt. I have been doing it for close to 20 years now and the hoops continue to move back and forth. And, I still get aggravated…

Why does the nam prik get thrown out?  Just oddly curious.

 

[watcharacters]

 

Just for discussion sake, what would the problem be if a person didn't quite  meet the requirements of immigration but got along just fine living economically in thailand.   Who would be hurt by that?

 

[Vacuum]

On 7/14/2018 at 7:21 AM, missoura said:

We expats have to jump through the hoops in order to stay in Thailand and it is a pain in the butt.

What "hoops" are you talking about? There are rules, directions and requirements and if you follow them, you'll have no need to "jump any hoops".

[NancyL]

18 minutes ago, kurtmartens said:

Why does the nam prik get thrown out?  Just oddly curious.

 

It's probably not commercially produced, packaged and labeled, but rather something homemade or picked up at the local market. It could be just about anything and rather than take a chance, it's disposed of at the border.  I've brought in commercially produced Thai chili paste that I bought at Tops or Rim Ping without any problem.   

[moontang]

14 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 

Just for discussion sake, what would the problem be if a person didn't quite  meet the requirements of immigration but got along just fine living economically in thailand.   Who would be hurt by that?

 

prisons are full of people who committed victimless crime.  It is the sworn duty of police to uphold the law; not interpret it to their liking.

[JLCrab]

Just to add, for discussion sake, what if, because of persons who falsely swear to their monthly income, Thai IMM came out with a ruling that they will no longer accept sworn income affidavits from US persons or persons from any other country wherein the Embassy is not willing to or is unable to state that they are guaranteeing or have reviewed hard copy documents as to the accuracy of their citizen's sworn statement?

 

What harm would there be in That?

Edited July 15, 2018 by JLCrab

[moontang]

None, it would mean likely mean lower hospital costs for those actually paying.

[Vacuum]

2 hours ago, watcharacters said:

 

Just for discussion sake, what would the problem be if a person didn't quite  meet the requirements of immigration but got along just fine living economically in thailand.   Who would be hurt by that?

 

 

The person who didn't met the requirements...

Edited July 15, 2018 by Vacuum

[watcharacters]

3 hours ago, moontang said:

prisons are full of people who committed victimless crime.  It is the sworn duty of police to uphold the law; not interpret it to their liking.

 

 

I don't think you really answered my question meant  for discussion.    

 

What harm do you personally  see as a result of overstays?

 

Oh yes,  if it is victimless crime, does the law make sense?    Should it be a law if victimless?     Curious..

 

 

 

 

Edited July 15, 2018 by watcharacters

[idman]

It wasn't even four hours when the girl at Assist Thai Visa called me back to tell that Thai Immigration had recinded their earlier requirement addition and now for U.S. citizens all that was needed was the notarized form from the Consulate.  Works for me.  Thank you Thai Immigration.

[chingmai331]

Such 'victimless' crimes harm the sovereignty of the state: not permitted.  And not all laws make sense to outsiders.  Some laws are written to protect certain classes of citizens and if you are not of the special class you will certainly not agree with the law.

Don't forget that the 'LAW' is only the product of some people.

[jmd8800]

23 hours ago, Vacuum said:

.....and feed the corruption?

I am reminded of a conversation I had with an expat a year or so ago. He told me he didn't have enough income to qualify for a retirement extension so he lied on the income affidavit form. Later I asked him if he ever used a visa agent. His reply was: No... that is corruption.

[DepDavid]

Did my yearly retirement extension today armed with embassy letter and proof of income including letter from retirement provider 1099r and bank deposits at home. Surprisingly they took the embassy letter without question. 

 

I also had a printout from bangkokbank for a full year of transactions. You can pay the 200 baht fee and get it in about 5 business days. 

 

They also told told me they have a new directive to visit every foreigner at home. I said just for marriage extension right. IO said no they are to visit everyone!

[Wopanese]

On 7/15/2018 at 11:14 AM, watcharacters said:

 

Just for discussion sake, what would the problem be if a person didn't quite  meet the requirements of immigration but got along just fine living economically in thailand.   Who would be hurt by that?

 

I was thinking the same thing. As long as the person can afford to pay rent, utilities, and purchase all the necessary basics they're contributing to the Thai economy regardless of income requirements, are they not? And if they get to a point where they simply can't afford to live here, I'm assuming they'll establish a new life elsewhere. 

[narkeddiver]

19 hours ago, Wopanese said:

I was thinking the same thing. As long as the person can afford to pay rent, utilities, and purchase all the necessary basics they're contributing to the Thai economy regardless of income requirements, are they not? And if they get to a point where they simply can't afford to live here, I'm assuming they'll establish a new life elsewhere. 

 

I think the key thing missing from your list is having the ability to cover medical costs, expected or otherwise

Edited July 19, 2018 by narkeddiver

[meechai]

On 7/18/2018 at 4:08 AM, Wopanese said:

And if they get to a point where they simply can't afford to live here, I'm assuming they'll establish a new life elsewhere. 

There is the problem

If they simply cant afford to live in a cheap place like Thailand

You think they have airfare & restart money to another spot?

You think if they are broken health wise they can leave?

 

Whose problem do they then become?

I would not blame Thailand if they get much stricter on visa extension financial requirements,

especially proof of health insurance & exit/repatriation costs

 

Edited July 20, 2018 by meechai

[Peasandmash]

years ago i just put the 800k in the bank and once a year the bank gives me a letter which i give to my agent. like the saying goes... it's the only way to fly ?  

Edited July 20, 2018 by Peasandmash

[Peasandmash]

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Posted Wednesday at 09:08 PM

On 7/15/2018 at 11:14 AM, watcharacters said:

 

Just for discussion sake, what would the problem be if a person didn't quite  meet the requirements of immigration but got along just fine living economically in thailand.   Who would be hurt by that?

 

I was thinking the same thing. As long as the person can afford to pay rent, utilities, and purchase all the necessary basics they're contributing to the Thai economy regardless of income requirements, are they not? And if they get to a point where they simply can't afford to live here, I'm assuming they'll establish a new life elsewhere. 

 

 #1 It is completely subjective... #2 and if you are just paying the bills what is your contribution to the economy? paying for "all the necessary basics" isn't contributing to the Thai economy. that doesn't help anyone. contributing to the economy is when you spend more than the necessary basics. it's when you use your money, not your time, to help others, businesses, etc. get real. 

[NancyL]

22 hours ago, Peasandmash said:

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Posted Wednesday at 09:08 PM

I was thinking the same thing. As long as the person can afford to pay rent, utilities, and purchase all the necessary basics they're contributing to the Thai economy regardless of income requirements, are they not? And if they get to a point where they simply can't afford to live here, I'm assuming they'll establish a new life elsewhere. 

 

 #1 It is completely subjective... #2 and if you are just paying the bills what is your contribution to the economy? paying for "all the necessary basics" isn't contributing to the Thai economy. that doesn't help anyone. contributing to the economy is when you spend more than the necessary basics. it's when you use your money, not your time, to help others, businesses, etc. get real. 

The problem comes when the person who is just getting by has a medical problem and turns up at a government hospital where they have an obligation to treat an emergency case regardless of ability to pay.  Suan Dok (Maharaj University) hospital has millions of baht of unpaid medical bills from foreigners each year.  The rest of us suffer.  For example, a couple years ago, they instituted dual pricing for hospital rooms.  Why?  To try to make up for the unpaid bills of other foreigners.

[Bill97]

years ago i just put the 800k in the bank and once a year the bank gives me a letter which i give to my agent. like the saying goes... it's the only way to fly [emoji6]  

That does not help the economy. You have to spend it.


Sent from my iPod touch using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[asiaexpat]

On 7/11/2018 at 12:12 PM, meechai said:

This was a long time coming....It was only a matter of time.

It was a given half the claims of income were BS

 

I always thought it would be funny if CM Consulate forwarded all the sworn to have XXX income per month to the IRS for their confirmation ??

 

Would have had a few surprised barstools around town

And you know that 50% of the USA applicants are criminals due to false statements? Where did you get such data, or is this just BS you are pushing? False statements to the USA government are very serious crimes so why would a large number of USA citizens risk jail time just to get a letter? There are a lot of false statements about this subject on TV.

[Fredh]

If you have income of say 600,000 THB from a pension, does the 200K have to be in the bank for 60 days or 90 days?  Or can I just deposit it right before the application?  

 

 

[Fredh]

On 7/15/2018 at 4:13 PM, idman said:

It wasn't even four hours when the girl at Assist Thai Visa called me back to tell that Thai Immigration had recinded their earlier requirement addition and now for U.S. citizens all that was needed was the notarized form from the Consulate.  Works for me.  Thank you Thai Immigration.

Is it still possible to avoid this requirement?

[moontang]

On 7/21/2018 at 7:10 AM, NancyL said:

The problem comes when the person who is just getting by has a medical problem and turns up at a government hospital where they have an obligation to treat an emergency case regardless of ability to pay.  Suan Dok (Maharaj University) hospital has millions of baht of unpaid medical bills from foreigners each year.  The rest of us suffer.  For example, a couple years ago, they instituted dual pricing for hospital rooms.  Why?  To try to make up for the unpaid bills of other foreigners.

Are the falsified affidavit s the core of the problem of just the tip of the iceberg?