UK's new Brexit envoy optimistic, as EU warns of Brexit crash

[The Renegade]

16 minutes ago, JAG said:

Frankly I don't think there are going to be any meaningful negotiations.

At the last moment we will be offered "terms". Terms which if accepted will result in the UK becoming an effective vassal state of the EU. 

 

Isn't it amazing that the '' poor, uneducated leavers '' ?? Can see this from a mile off.

 

And the so called '' Highly educated remainers '' ?? Are oblivious to this.

 

As has been said time and time again, the EU is only interested in negotiating something that keeps the UK tied to Brussels, under the thumb of the ECJ and handing over £ Billions for the pleasure.

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Actually, I did see your posting about France and it just shows how limited your understanding of both the EU and economics is. First off, because the EU isn't all-powerful the way you and so many fellow Brexiteers claim, it can't guarantee a member nation's success. The conditions are there if the member nations wish to take advantage of them but they can still make poor choices. That said, I doubt that very many French citizens, except for the wealthy would exchange the model of the French economy for the model of the UK's. Despite the fact that France is a member of the Eurozone with all the obstacles that imposes on a government's ability to respond to economic conditions for the big majority of French citizens, the level of economic equality is far superior to the UK's and living conditions are much better there than in the UK. The French are much closer than the British in coming up with the ideal answer to what should be a guiding principle in economic policy: What's an economy for? Is it just to rack up GDP points or is it to make life better for people? 

Agree with the EU isn't all-powerful bit.

 

 

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Once again a demonstration of ignorance  on your part.. The EU is not the Eurozone. And, in fact, if the Italians actually manage to vote for this, ultimately that would be a great thing for the EU. So maybe your vocabularly is so limited that you think "destroy" is a synonym for "change" or "improve." But we native English speakers know better.

And unfortunately, it doesn't look like the Italians would vote for that. The big majority of Italians are as misguided in their support of the Euro as the small majority of those in favor of Brexit were.

Polls show most Italians want to stay in euro

Two polls show that between 60-72 percent of Italians want the country to remain part of the euro while 23-24 percent would choose to drop the common currency.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-italy-euro-poll/polls-show-most-italians-want-to-stay-in-euro-idUSKCN1IW0MT

For Italy's sake, and for the sake of the EU, I hope that changes.

The EU is not the Eurozone but it encompasses all of it. The Euro is the official currency of the EU. The Italians are no doubt sick of having to deal with much of the trans-Mediterranean immigrant problem and high unemployment for so long and I bet that 24% are all in the south. Italy probably wants to leave the EU and Euro but their debt is so high the Italians know that would be completely ruinous - adopting the Euro has not suited the Italians  - but they will put up with the EU only as long as the EU keeps them afloat. 

[Rimmer]

Some off topic posts and replies have been removed

[bristolboy]

28 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The EU is not the Eurozone but it encompasses all of it. The Euro is the official currency of the EU. The Italians are no doubt sick of having to deal with much of the trans-Mediterranean immigrant problem and high unemployment for so long and I bet that 24% are all in the south. Italy probably wants to leave the EU and Euro but their debt is so high the Italians know that would be completely ruinous - adopting the Euro has not suited the Italians  - but they will put up with the EU only as long as the EU keeps them afloat. 

Actually, if the Italians decided to drop the Euro, they would have a lot more leverage than Greece had. Italy is not the basket case that Greece was. Not by a long shot. And reverting to the lira shouldn't be a problem. It would also make clear to the Italian people, as Brexit will to UK citizens. especially to the less educated and less prosperous, the majority of whom backed Brexit, that most of the problems that beset their economies lie with their national governments, not with the EU. And in the case of the UK this is even more the case since it is not saddled with the Euro.

As for "Italy probably wants to leave the EU and the Euro"... that comes from the department of wishful thinking.

Edited July 28, 2018 by bristolboy

[nauseus]

8 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Actually, if the Italians decided to drop the Euro, they would have a lot more leverage than Greece had. Italy is not the basket case that Greece was. Not by a long shot. And reverting to the lira shouldn't be a problem. It would also make clear to the Italian people, as Brexit will to UK citizens. especially to the less educated and less prosperous, the majority of whom backed Brexit, that most of the problems that beset their economies lie with their national governments, not with the EU. And in the case of the UK this is even more the case since it is not saddled with the Euro.

As for "Italy probably wants to leave the EU and the Euro"... that comes from the department of wishful thinking.

 This "reverting to the lira shouldn't be a problem" - now that is wishful (or wistful) thinking! 

[bristolboy]

Just now, nauseus said:

 This "reverting to the lira shouldn't be a problem" - now that is wishful (or wistful) thinking! 

Well, the Eurozone was able to call Greece's bluff because the Greek economy is miniscule in relation to the Eurozone. Not so with Italy. If Italy went ahead and did it, and the Eurozone tried to unfairly value the new lira, there wouldn't be enough money in the world to stop the Eurozone banking system from crashing and burning.

[melvinmelvin]

11 hours ago, Grouse said:

I actually walked around with my pint of Johns and had a chat with the Geordies. To a man they are concerned with manufacturing jobs going..

 

Just reporting, like..

 

In Edinburgh tonight. I'll ask here also. Going from Uni to uni with eldest daughter is a great pub crawl for me! Bristol on Tuesday.

 

Edinburgh offers opportunities for p crawls

Close to Heriot-Watt you have Grassmarket and Royal Mile

Close to Edinburgh you have Royal Mile

mebbee you could do Royal Mile twice in 1 day

 

and after having sobered up you could do Rose Street while digesting what you picked up at Edinburgh and Heriot-Watt

just before you move on west to Strathclyde and Glasgow, a few pubs there as well

 

 

all crawls in Edinburgh offer ample opportunities for exchanges on Brexit

though I think Grassmarket would stand out, a weirder mix of people there

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2018 by melvinmelvin

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Well, the Eurozone was able to call Greece's bluff because the Greek economy is miniscule in relation to the Eurozone. Not so with Italy. If Italy went ahead and did it, and the Eurozone tried to unfairly value the new lira, there wouldn't be enough money in the world to stop the Eurozone banking system from crashing and burning.

Very good. So that is a problem then - both for the EU and Italy.

[welovesundaysatspace]

3 hours ago, bristolboy said:

It would also make clear to the Italian people, as Brexit will to UK citizens. especially to the less educated and less prosperous, the majority of whom backed Brexit, that most of the problems that beset their economies lie with their national governments, not with the EU. 

This is why Brexit actually will be good for the EU.

 

The majority of people is uneducated and not too smart. They don’t understand something as complex as the EU, and explaining it to them is almost impossible and takes a long time. 

 

They are easy prey for people like Trump, Le Pen, Wilders, or the Brexit protagonists whose messages and explanations, even though outright lies or completely absurd allegations, are simple and easy to understand. That’s why they vote for those people. For the same reason they prefer the yellow-press over quality media or a soap opera over a museum. 

 

What they will understand though is when reality kicks in. We can already see that now with the public opinion towards the EU changing as people realise what chaos Brexit is even before it’s executed. Once the whole impact of it becomes apparent, right-wings will have to find another scapegoat.

 

Ironically, the UK is providing the EU a nice little case study here. 

Edited July 28, 2018 by welovesundaysatspace

[alfieconn]

15 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

This is why Brexit actually will be good for the EU.

 

The majority of people is uneducated and not too smart. They don’t understand something as complex as the EU, and explaining it to them is almost impossible and takes a long time. 

 

They are easy prey for people like Trump, Le Pen, Wilders, or the Brexit protagonists whose messages and explanations, even though outright lies or completely absurd allegations, are simple and easy to understand. That’s why they vote for those people. For the same reason they prefer the yellow-press over quality press or a soap opera over a museum. 

 

What they will understand though is when reality kicks in. We can already see that now with the public opinion towards the EU changing as people realise what chaos Brexit is even before it’s executed. Once the whole impact of it becomes apparent, right-wings will have to find another scapegoat.

 

Ironically, the UK is providing the EU a nice little case study here. 

Well judging by your grammar you don't across as too smart ? ? 

 

So the 17.4m who voted to leave are "not too smart" ! so what do you base your knowledge on ?

 

 

Edited July 28, 2018 by alfieconn

[whatsupdoc]

25 minutes ago, alfieconn said:

Well judging by your grammar you don't across as too smart ? ? 

 

So the 17.4m who voted to leave are "not too smart" ! so what do you base your knowledge on ?

 

 

There is no need for the grammar police (especially if you're not good at it yourself). Also, please remember that for many posters here English is not their first language.

[nauseus]

16 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

o leave are "not too smart" ! so wh

 

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

This is why Brexit actually will be good for the EU.

 

The majority of people is uneducated and not too smart. They don’t understand something as complex as the EU, and explaining it to them is almost impossible and takes a long time. 

 

They are easy prey for people like Trump, Le Pen, Wilders, or the Brexit protagonists whose messages and explanations, even though outright lies or completely absurd allegations, are simple and easy to understand. That’s why they vote for those people. For the same reason they prefer the yellow-press over quality media or a soap opera over a museum. 

 

What they will understand though is when reality kicks in. We can already see that now with the public opinion towards the EU changing as people realise what chaos Brexit is even before it’s executed. Once the whole impact of it becomes apparent, right-wings will have to find another scapegoat.

 

Ironically, the UK is providing the EU a nice little case study here. 

Not too smart? I wonder what the pre-edited version looked like?

[tebee]

OK I know some of you will just dismiss this as project fear ,  but can you afford to risk it?

 

What a hard no deal brexit looks like for food 

 

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/07/27/this-is-what-no-deal-brexit-actually-looks-like

[The Renegade]

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

The majority of people is uneducated and not too smart. They don’t understand something as complex as the EU, and explaining it to them is almost impossible and takes a long time. 

That pretty much nails '' Remainers ''

 

As you can see by just reading today's offerings from bristolboy from Bristol, Tennessee.

[The Renegade]

3 minutes ago, tebee said:

What a hard no deal brexit looks like for food 

 

Poor wee tebee is no good,

Sometimes he is also rather rude.

It's all because he is in a bad mood.

Cos he is scared that there will be no food.

 

Give up the fear mongering. 

 

 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

This is why Brexit actually will be good for the EU.

 

The majority of people is uneducated and not too smart. They don’t understand something as complex as the EU, and explaining it to them is almost impossible and takes a long time. 

 

They are easy prey for people like Trump, Le Pen, Wilders, or the Brexit protagonists whose messages and explanations, even though outright lies or completely absurd allegations, are simple and easy to understand. That’s why they vote for those people. For the same reason they prefer the yellow-press over quality media or a soap opera over a museum. 

 

What they will understand though is when reality kicks in. We can already see that now with the public opinion towards the EU changing as people realise what chaos Brexit is even before it’s executed. Once the whole impact of it becomes apparent, right-wings will have to find another scapegoat.

 

Ironically, the UK is providing the EU a nice little case study here. 

Case study - as in packing our bags?

[alfieconn]

1 hour ago, whatsupdoc said:

There is no need for the grammar police (especially if you're not good at it yourself). Also, please remember that for many posters here English is not their first language.

But i'm not the one saying  The majority of people is uneducated and not too smart. 

 

Edited July 28, 2018 by alfieconn

[tracy3eyes]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

OK I know some of you will just dismiss this as project fear ,  but can you afford to risk it?

 

What a hard no deal brexit looks like for food 

 

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/07/27/this-is-what-no-deal-brexit-actually-looks-like

You mean this biased unsubstantiated load of EU turdness is NOT project fear!

[melvinmelvin]

On 7/26/2018 at 2:48 PM, The Renegade said:

Please explain what you find weird about my explanation of how events happened for the UK. There is nothing skewed about it.

 

The mess that the UK now finds itself struggling through is a direct result of Remainers, whether they be Tory, Labour, right wing, left wing or non descript. Who refuse to accept:

 

A Referendum result.

 

That MP's voted by a margin of 4 - 1 to invoke article 50.

 

And have tried every trick in the book to thwart Brexit.

 

Brexit has on many occasions been referred to as a divorce.

 

There is no such thing as half a divorce.

 

Well, you and I live on different planets.

I quite simply cannot relate to your story telling. I find it skewed compared to what  I loosely perceive as what happens.

 

 

As to  the mess;

it is not the fault of remainers it is not the fault of brexiteers and not the fault of the non-voters, in my view

 

it is rather exclusively the fault of the Tory party, the Tory MPs and the Tory cabinet

they have taken on the responsibility to guide UK through this in a proper way, it is rather clear that they cant hack it,

they are not capable

whether another group of politicians would be more capable nobody knows

 

but probably about time to try it out

 

 

 

[The Renegade]

5 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

Well, you and I live on different planets.

Clearly

 

6 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

I quite simply cannot relate to your story telling. I find it skewed compared to what  I loosely perceive as what happens.

What story telling ?

 

Tory 2015 GE Manifesto pledge - To hold a Referendum on EU Membership. - Tories elected into Government.

 

June 2016 - Promised Referendum held - More voted leave than voted to remain.

 

After various Court cases brought about by remainers

 

Jan 2017 - A parliamentary vote on triggering Article 50  was held - By a margin of 4 - 1 the vote was in favour of triggering Article 50.

 

March 2017 - Article 50 triggered

 

March 2019 -  The UK will leave the EU, deal or no deal, as the UK has, as yet, not applied  for an extension to the withdrawal period.

 

Perhaps there is a different story circulating on Planet Zog.

 

 

[tebee]

1 hour ago, The Renegade said:

 

Poor wee tebee is no good,

Sometimes he is also rather rude.

It's all because he is in a bad mood.

Cos he is scared that there will be no food.

 

Give up the fear mongering. 

 

 

There’s a fierce, natural resistance to no-deal talk: it can’t happen here, this is Britain, things work. Yes: because of a floor beneath us which government is dismantling.

 

We aren’t so special. Any country will burn if you set fire to it.

[The Renegade]

3 minutes ago, tebee said:

There’s a fierce, natural resistance to no-deal talk: it can’t happen here,

 

4 minutes ago, tebee said:

it can’t happen here

???

 

They said the same thing about Brexit and Trump.

 

Look how that worked out ??

[welovesundaysatspace]

3 hours ago, alfieconn said:

So the 17.4m who voted to leave are "not too smart" ! so what do you base your knowledge on ?

To be precise, I said the majority of people isn’t too smart and educated. Do you really disagree? 

[tebee]

8 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

 

???

 

They said the same thing about Brexit and Trump.

 

Look how that worked out ??

Not very well in either case !

[whatsupdoc]

1 hour ago, tracy3eyes said:

You mean this biased unsubstantiated load of EU turdness is NOT project fear!

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/07/27/this-is-what-no-deal-brexit-actually-looks-like

 

No, this objective, fact-based article is actually a pretty good description of project reality in the case of no-deal.

Exporters in the Netherlands and other EU countries are already preparing for it... They have a choice to explore other markets. It will be a lot harder for UK based exporters (especially when dealing with perishable goods).

[The Renegade]

52 minutes ago, tebee said:

Not very well in either case !

Really ?

 

The US is currently flying. More than can be said for France ? 

 

Brexit hasn't happened yet, and despite the doom and gloom merchants, how it pans out remains to be seen.

Edited July 28, 2018 by The Renegade

[welovesundaysatspace]

3 hours ago, nauseus said:

Case study - as in packing our bags?

Case study as in “see what a great idea it is to believe those populists and leave the EU”. 

[tomacht8]

4 hours ago, tebee said:

OK I know some of you will just dismiss this as project fear ,  but can you afford to risk it?

 

What a hard no deal brexit looks like for food 

 

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/07/27/this-is-what-no-deal-brexit-actually-looks-like

Very good article that sheds light on the possible practical issues. Unfortunately, statements by experts in the fields are always dismissed by Brexiters as "Project fear".

 

This applies to all specialist reports from aviation, pharmaceuticals, education, food, transport, automotive, aerospace, research, trade, finance, industry, insurance, etc. Whenever experts from various industries express their concerns, it is Projekt Fear. That's why the UK will fall on its nose with its Brexit. 

 

Unfortunately, the exit ideology is placed over the sequence of logic chains.

 

[tebee]

And a leaver  who thinks we are heading towards no deal - and we should fear it 

 

http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86945