UK's new Brexit envoy optimistic, as EU warns of Brexit crash

[citybiker]

The answer: Romanians work for less than minimum wage, in a form of slavery in the UK. Farmers don't want to pay British land workers.

 

It's a vicious cycle of welfare for Brits, illegal foreign workers who are exploited and greed.

 

Illegal workers getting exploited? 

Big flaw in that narrative, you expect NMW for an illegal worker who isn't even entitled to be the country?

 

Romania part of the EU, also many European workers are either returning to their country of origin or staying znd making a life in the UK.

 

British farmers will pay for anyone who's willing to get their arrse on the field.

 

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[Chomper Higgot]

20 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

The answer: Romanians work for less than minimum wage, in a form of slavery in the UK.

Farmers don't want to pay British land workers.

 

It's a vicious cycle of welfare for Brits, illegal foreign workers who are exploited and greed.

You’ve perhaps spent less time on farms in the U.K. than I have.

 

Nothing you said suggests you’ve any knowledge of landwork in the U.K.

 

East Europeans are happy to work for the minimum wage, Brits refuse the work.

 

[citybiker]

You’ve perhaps spent less time on farms in the U.K. than I have.

 

Nothing you said suggests you’ve any knowledge of landwork in the U.K.

 

East Europeans are happy to work for the minimum wage, Brits refuse the work.

 

To be fair, I suggest it's more a supply & demand issue too.

 

Some Brits may work, majority have a different mindset compared to our European neighbours.

 

Let's not forget many eastern European countries have nothing like NMW so they go where there is decent wages.

 

Hasten to add, theres plenty of countries with a black market workers economy, if any employer can get away with cash in hand before getting fined they will, the profits sometimes out weight the fine.

 

Sent from my SM-A500FU using Tapatalk

 

 

 

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Brexiteers have been predicting the demise of the EU for years now. The reality on the ground doesn't seem to reflect that, no matter how much you wish it to be true.

 

Eurobarometer - courtesy European Commission. LOL.?

[bristolboy]

14 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Eurobarometer - courtesy European Commission. LOL.?

Those numbers look pretty good when compared to the margin of how many UK citizens support Brexit.

https://www.businessinsider.com/survation-poll-strong-public-support-for-a-second-referendum-on-brexit-2018-6

[nauseus]

46 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Nothing, which begs the question why British farmers can’t find British land workers to pick them.

 

A bit of hard work never hurt anyone.

A good question. Unfortunately UK welfare makes low paid farm work unattractive to Britons who have become used to the dole but this money is still far better than can be had in eastern Europe by the migrant workers.

 

But if the doomsayers are right and there becomes a food shortage, then the hungry native harvesters will soon reveal themselves as the number of rumbling tummies, prices and pay all increase.  

 

Being so reliant on imported food is a poor state for any country to be in, if it is capable of doing much better, as the UK still is. A lot of the imported food products are not diet-critical anyway. The farmers say they can produce more but they still need the financial and physical help. EU farm subsidy money should not need to be affected, as this is UK money anyway (from our contribution) which can go directly to the farmers instead, with even more if necessary.  

 

 

[RuamRudy]

28 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Eurobarometer - courtesy European Commission. LOL.?

I have noticed a trend with Brexiters - instant dismissal of anything that doesn't state that Brexit is the best thing to happen to the UK. Facts are no longer relevant if the narrative is not to your liking; seems a dangerous path to go down, but I can understand that the hive mentality must provide some comfort in the gloom. 

[The Renegade]

6 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

nstant dismissal of anything that doesn't state that Brexit is the best thing to happen to the UK.

You are confusing instant dismissal of biased sources with instant dismissal of anything the does not state Brexit is the best thing.....

 

2 very different things.

[nauseus]

Just now, RuamRudy said:

I have noticed a trend with Brexiters - instant dismissal of anything that doesn't state that Brexit is the best thing to happen to the UK. Facts are no longer relevant if the narrative is not to your liking; seems a dangerous path to go down, but I can understand that the hive mentality must provide some comfort in the gloom. 

Your chart was put up on another thread last year. Eurobarometer is of course another  EC commissioned pet project using the EU budget, which includes quite a bit of British money, of course. Yes, I dismissed it last year and again this year and that's because I only like to consider impartial surveys. 

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

You are confusing instant dismissal of biased sources with instant dismissal of anything the does not state Brexit is the best thing.....

 

2 very different things.

Keep telling yourself that, and keep telling yourself that Brexit will be good for the UK. Also, best to ignore those reports that suggest that fewer and fewer people agree with you - they are probably biased too, yes?

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

Your chart was put up on another thread last year. Eurobarometer is of course another  EC commissioned pet project using the EU budget, which includes quite a bit of British money, of course. Yes, I dismissed it last year and again this year and that's because I only like to consider impartial surveys. 

I think we went through the provenance for the chart and found no justification for suggesting that there was bias in it other than Brexiters' distrust of anything EU. If, since then, something tangible has come to light that demonstrates that the poll was rigged, I would be happy to hear it. 

[The Renegade]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

Keep telling yourself that, and keep telling yourself that Brexit will be good for the UK. Also, best to ignore those reports that suggest that fewer and fewer people agree with you - they are probably biased too, yes?

I do not need to tell myself anything.

 

I voted for Brexit and I want Brexit, and that would have been WTO rules right from the word go.

 

Not pussyfooting around trying to cut some deal with an Institution who is only concerned with trying to keep the UK under the control of Brussels and the ECJ.

 

 

[nauseus]

17 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I think we went through the provenance for the chart and found no justification for suggesting that there was bias in it other than Brexiters' distrust of anything EU. If, since then, something tangible has come to light that demonstrates that the poll was rigged, I would be happy to hear it. 

Same reason as last year. A truly unbiased survey would go down much better. The EU has even more reason now to demonstrate greater (false) confidence in itself since the UK referendum; it's a bit like Project Fear in reverse (Project Perfect)! ?. Plus I have no reason to believe the numbers are properly representative of the populations. I cannot find the method and source data for these polls; if you can let me know.

 

If the EU can fudge its own rules to suit itself, then I have no doubt that it can easily fudge a proprietary poll. A pity there are no fully independent comparisons.

 

 

Edited July 27, 2018 by nauseus

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

A good question. Unfortunately UK welfare makes low paid farm work unattractive to Britons who have become used to the dole but this money is still far better than can be had in eastern Europe by the migrant workers.

 

But if the doomsayers are right and there becomes a food shortage, then the hungry native harvesters will soon reveal themselves as the number of rumbling tummies, prices and pay all increase.  

 

Being so reliant on imported food is a poor state for any country to be in, if it is capable of doing much better, as the UK still is. A lot of the imported food products are not diet-critical anyway. The farmers say they can produce more but they still need the financial and physical help. EU farm subsidy money should not need to be affected, as this is UK money anyway (from our contribution) which can go directly to the farmers instead, with even more if necessary.  

 

 

You need to run that idea of not importing food past the people who eat the stuff. 

 

 

 

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You’ve perhaps spent less time on farms in the U.K. than I have.

Nothing you said suggests you’ve any knowledge of landwork in the U.K.

East Europeans are happy to work for the minimum wage, Brits refuse the work.

1

Which is why I specified welfare in the equation, if they gave the EEs Brit welfare, they would probably refuse the work as well.

Do you deliberately misunderstand or are you actually a bit dim?

(I've assumed it was deliberate to leverage your POV, but I may be mistaken)

Edited July 27, 2018 by BritManToo

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

Keep telling yourself that, and keep telling yourself that Brexit will be good for the UK. Also, best to ignore those reports that suggest that fewer and fewer people agree with you - they are probably biased too, yes?

I don't care if it's good for the UK, I do care about combating Globalism which is bad for the people of the world.

A world with no different cultures, with just 2 or 3 vast economic blocks all ruled by the bankers in grey.

(reminds me of 'Lord of the Rings' ..... One ring to rule them all and in the darkness bind them)

[nauseus]

27 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You need to run that idea of not importing food past the people who eat the stuff. 

 

 

 

Like you CHOMPER? ?

 

A typically skewed one-liner reply. I said the UK could do much better itself, not stopping imports of all food.  

[aright]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

Keep telling yourself that, and keep telling yourself that Brexit will be good for the UK. Also, best to ignore those reports that suggest that fewer and fewer people agree with you - they are probably biased too, yes?

The schematic you showed is quite old . You obviously have a great deal of faith in Eurobarometer perhaps you would like to comment on one of their later polls.

 

END OF EU signalled as EU’s own survey shows majority of Europeans are against EU

BRUSSELS bosses have been shaken by their own mass survey which shows to the majority of Europeans think they are taking the EU in the wrong direction.

The EU-funded Eurobarometer poll of 27,600 voters showed 44 percent thought the bloc had taken a wrong turn while just 32 percent said it was going the right way.

More than half of adults said they had no interest in next year’s European Parliament elections and 63 percent of younger voters admitted they were looking for “new political parties and movements”.

The results point to a fresh surge in support for the anti-establishment and eurosceptic parties that have soared in popularity in recent years and will come as a massive wake-up call for Brussels bureaucrats.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/965412/european-union-eurobarometer-survey-brussels-election-2019

 

"The EU’s permanent struggle is to look and feel more like the democracy it claims as a core value."

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, aright said:

The schematic you showed is quite old . You obviously have a great deal of faith in Eurobarometer perhaps you would like to comment on one of their later polls.

 

END OF EU signalled as EU’s own survey shows majority of Europeans are against EU

BRUSSELS bosses have been shaken by their own mass survey which shows to the majority of Europeans think they are taking the EU in the wrong direction.

The EU-funded Eurobarometer poll of 27,600 voters showed 44 percent thought the bloc had taken a wrong turn while just 32 percent said it was going the right way.

More than half of adults said they had no interest in next year’s European Parliament elections and 63 percent of younger voters admitted they were looking for “new political parties and movements”.

The results point to a fresh surge in support for the anti-establishment and eurosceptic parties that have soared in popularity in recent years and will come as a massive wake-up call for Brussels bureaucrats.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/965412/european-union-eurobarometer-survey-brussels-election-2019

 

"The EU’s permanent struggle is to look and feel more like the democracy it claims as a core value."

The irony is off the scale when Brexiteers complain about sources of bias then try to counter that with the Express. Can you find an alternative source because I don't want to contribute to porn baron Richard Desmond's fortune by clicking the above link. 

 

But just off the top of my head, from what you copied and pasted I can tell you that typical Brexit twisting of reality is at play there. 

 

7 minutes ago, aright said:

More than half of adults said they had no interest in next year’s European Parliament elections

There hasn't been a turnout above 50% at an EU election since 1994 so to try to paint this as some shocking volte-face is clear nonsense. 

 

And what of this:

 

9 minutes ago, aright said:

63 percent of younger voters admitted they were looking for “new political parties and movements”.

What does this even mean? Monster Raving Loonies? Greens? Why is this even included in the article?

[BritManToo]

18 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

What does this even mean? Monster Raving Loonies? Greens? Why is this even included in the article?

 

I would think it means not the usual bunch of elderly grey globalists.

Most people would like the EU to be like the left, but it's actually the right.

Edited July 27, 2018 by BritManToo

[aright]

You were the one who said

" best to ignore those reports that suggest that fewer and fewer people agree with you"

I was asking for you to comment on the report not hide under the blanket.

[RuamRudy]

20 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I would think it means not the usual bunch of elderly grey globalists.

Most people would like the EU to be like the left, but it's actually the right.

Have you taken a look at who is leading Brexit. If you think that Rees Mogg, Johnson or Farage are going to give you anything better than we have now, I am afraid you may be in for a disappointment. 

[Chomper Higgot]

20 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I would think it means not the usual bunch of elderly grey globalists.

Most people would like the EU to be like the left, but it's actually the right.

 

Nice graphic, but it ignores things like:

 

EU fining Google $5Billion for anti-trust infringements.

EU fines Asus, Philips, and others for price fixing PC hardware and electronics

EU fines Danish pharma-giant in first 'pay for delay' case

E.U. fines Qualcomm for paying Apple billions to shut out rivals

 

The  reality is that the EU frequently challenges and fines global corporations for acting against the interests of consumers. 

 

 

https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/18/17580694/google-android-eu-fine-antitrust

https://www.pcgamer.com/eu-fines-asus-philips-and-others-for-price-fixing-pc-hardware-and-electronics/

https://euobserver.com/social/120563

https://www.cultofmac.com/525005/eu-fines-qualcomm-997-million/

[nauseus]

7 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Have you taken a look at who is leading Brexit. If you think that Rees Mogg, Johnson or Farage are going to give you anything better than we have now, I am afraid you may be in for a disappointment. 

Better than what we have now is finally being free of the EU. That's what the referendum was all about. Remember?

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

Better than what we have now is finally being free of the EU. That's what the referendum was all about. Remember?

Indeed it was. 

 

But nobody voted to be worse off.

[nauseus]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

 

Nice graphic, but it ignores things like:

 

EU fining Google $5Billion for anti-trust infringements.

EU fines Asus, Philips, and others for price fixing PC hardware and electronics

EU fines Danish pharma-giant in first 'pay for delay' case

E.U. fines Qualcomm for paying Apple billions to shut out rivals

 

The  reality is that the EU frequently challenges and fines global corporations for acting against the interests of consumers. 

 

 

https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/18/17580694/google-android-eu-fine-antitrust

https://www.pcgamer.com/eu-fines-asus-philips-and-others-for-price-fixing-pc-hardware-and-electronics/

https://euobserver.com/social/120563

https://www.cultofmac.com/525005/eu-fines-qualcomm-997-million/

Just new ways of money-grubbing. Who really benefits from the cash? 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

Just new ways of money-grubbing. Who really benefits from the cash? 

The consumer who get more choice and don't get ripped off by 'price fixing'.

 

 

 

Edited July 27, 2018 by Chomper Higgot

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Indeed it was. 

 

But nobody voted to be worse off.

That wasn't the question so we don't know.

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The consumer who get more choice and don't get ripped off by 'price fixing'.

 

 

 

The cash, the cash!

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, nauseus said:

That wasn't the question so we don't know.

But it is the reality and it is becoming more of the point.

 

But what do you care, as an Expat Brexiteer you can be brave in the face of other people facing Brexit generated inflation and Brexit generated job uncertainty.