A crime or a right? Some Danish Muslims defy face veil ban

[Bluespunk]

4 minutes ago, Dellboy218 said:

And what about the right of the majority of the population to see who they are with.  Their right that those around them are identifiable.  Everyone has security cameras to help identify those that commit crimes.  This clothing along with all face coverings should be banned.  I believe hoods on hoodies cannot be left up in UK  shopping malls now for this very reason but you are telling me that these people have the right to go into the same place and cover their identity?  Well done Denmark I hope others follow. 

Please quote statistics on crimes committed by women wearing veils in Denmark to back up your crime concern claim. 

 

I believe people have the right to wear a veil if they choose to do so.  

[Dellboy218]

10 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Please quote statistics on crimes committed by women wearing veils in Denmark to back up your crime concern claim. 

 

I believe people have the right to wear a veil if they choose to do so.  

Criminals have used this clothing to commit crimes in London and to make good their escape. The tiny minority should not and cannot be allowed to prevail over the majority. Please provide your evidence to the contrary. It also means the Police waste a lot of time trying to identify people so they can be excluded.  There is no case whatsoever for wearing. 

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/is-the-burqa-really-a-terror-threat

[Bluespunk]

14 minutes ago, Dellboy218 said:

Criminals have used this clothing to commit crimes in London and to make good their escape. The tiny minority should not and cannot be allowed to prevail over the majority. Please provide your evidence to the contrary. It also means the Police waste a lot of time trying to identify people so they can be excluded.  There is no case whatsoever for wearing. 

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/is-the-burqa-really-a-terror-threat

This story is about a veil ban on Denmark.

 

Now please back up your veil crime claims related to the Denmark ban. 

 

Equally, if you wish, provide statistics for veil related crime in the U.K.  

 

i do not need to prove the contrary as you are the one making these claims. 

[giddyup]

3 hours ago, simple1 said:

And the fact is, if the allegation is correct, Border Control did not avail themselves of the tools available to them by way of enacted legislation

The subject is the burka, and it's possible misuse, not whether border control was doing it's job, and I'm not sure if that legislation was in place in 2006, and the fact remains that it was the burka that allowed this lowlife to escape.

Edited August 3, 2018 by giddyup

[Dellboy218]

11 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

This story is about a veil ban on Denmark.

 

Now please back up your veil crime claims related to the Denmark ban. 

 

Equally, if you wish, provide statistics for veil related crime in the U.K.  

 

i do not need to prove the contrary as you are the one making these claims. 

That article did relate to crime in London.  It is a Europe wide problem that is slowly being dealt with.  Not just Denmark. 

[simple1]

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

The subject is the burka, and it's possible misuse, not border control.

Incorrect, not a stand alone item, but in conjunction with legislation underpinning security concerns. In the case you highlighted appropriate procedures were not followed, therefore in that particular instance, if the allegations are correct, errors were made by security personnel. 

 

 

[Bluespunk]

6 minutes ago, Dellboy218 said:

That article did relate to crime in London.  It is a Europe wide problem that is slowly being dealt with.  Not just Denmark. 

The protest was about a veil ban in Denmark held by Danish citizens. 

 

Now, provide statistics to back up your veil crime claims in Denmark (and London if you wish) with statistics proving your claim. 

Edited August 3, 2018 by Bluespunk

[giddyup]

Just now, simple1 said:

Incorrect, not a stand alone item, but in conjunction with legislation underpinning security concerns. In the case you highlighted appropriate procedures were not followed, therefore in that particular instance, if the allegations are correct, errors were made by security personnel. 

 

 

The offense would not have been possible without the burka, put any spin on it you like, the fact remains. I guess you blame the bartender for allowing the drunk driver to get behind the wheel? Everyone is at fault except the actual perpetrator.

[My Thai Life]

Here's a qoute from the Guardian, the UK's leading liberal newspaper

 

"The justice ministry explained that the ban would focus on women forced by their families to wear veils"

 

I am a lifelong liberal. Islam is the enemy of liberalism.

[simple1]

24 minutes ago, giddyup said:

 

I guess you blame the bartender for allowing the drunk driver to get behind the wheel?

 

yep, that's the law

[stevenl]

19 minutes ago, car720 said:

As someone previously said, when you are a guest in someone's house you show your host the courtesy of obeying his house rules.  To believe that these people do not want to change the local people is to have no understanding of the oneness of islam.

So you're proving an earlier claim by repeating that claim.

 

Lol.

[Dellboy218]

I have already given you a link to an article which states crimes have been committed by people wearing the this clothing and you have chosen to ignore it. Fair enough,.  Fairest way have a referendum.  The rights of the few do not outweigh the rights of the many. 

[HAKAPALITA]

Steve, women who take off their veil in the company of men who are not family members are committing a crime in many of their home countries. Calling it free choice and unforced is naive.
 
I am a lifelong liberal. Islam is the enemy of liberalism.

So at least it has one thing right.. Its bloody Liberals who let em wander about.!?[emoji481]


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[My Thai Life]

In the Guardian's article there was a photo showing a young ethnic Danish woman partying in solidarity with her muslim sisters. She was wearing a pink balaklava and a bra. What do you think the response would be If she tried that in her muslim sisters' Danish ghetto, or in any muslim country?

 

As a lifelong liberal I understand why many liberals support the wearing of the veil. As someone who has extensive experience of working with muslims and having read very widely about the history of Islam, I believe these liberals are misguided.

 

I am a lifelong liberal, it doesn't make me happy to say Islam is the enemy of liberalism.

[stevenl]

15 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

In the Guardian's article there was a photo showing a young ethnic Danish woman partying in solidarity with her muslim sisters. She was wearing a pink balaklava and a bra. What do you think the response would be If she tried that in her muslim sisters' Danish ghetto, or in any muslim country?

 

As a lifelong liberal I understand why many liberals support the wearing of the veil. As someone who has extensive experience of working with muslims and having read very widely about the history of Islam, I believe these liberals are misguided.

 

I am a lifelong liberal, it doesn't make me happy to say Islam is the enemy of liberalism.

"What do you think the response would be If she tried that in her muslim sisters' Danish ghetto, or in any muslim country?"

Does it matter?

 

What Danish ghetto are you talking about BTW?

[Opl]

1 hour ago, car720 said:

As someone previously said, when you are a guest in someone's house you show your host the courtesy of obeying his house rules.  To believe that these people do not want to change the local people is to have no understanding of the oneness of islam.

Agree.

Defying the law, wearing such an outfit in non muslim countries like Denmark, France… tells how they just don't recognise the culture or history of the countries they chose to live in - and deserve the reaction in return for Islam is a religion and a political ideology.

The advantage of the ban is to make it clear.

 It is not far-right ideology to criticize and oppose ideological indoctrination.

Denmark scrapped blasphemy law, any issue?

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by Opl

[bristolboy]

18 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

In the Guardian's article there was a photo showing a young ethnic Danish woman partying in solidarity with her muslim sisters. She was wearing a pink balaklava and a bra. What do you think the response would be If she tried that in her muslim sisters' Danish ghetto, or in any muslim country?

 

As a lifelong liberal I understand why many liberals support the wearing of the veil. As someone who has extensive experience of working with muslims and having read very widely about the history of Islam, I believe these liberals are misguided.

 

I am a lifelong liberal, it doesn't make me happy to say Islam is the enemy of liberalism.

If by reading widely you mean from scholars and not propagandists, you would know that Islam is not inherently intolerant. But something tells me that's not where you get your information from.

[bristolboy]

58 minutes ago, car720 said:

As someone previously said, when you are a guest in someone's house you show your host the courtesy of obeying his house rules.  To believe that these people do not want to change the local people is to have no understanding of the oneness of islam.

If you are a citizen of a country then you are not a guest. And god knows what you mean by "change the local people."

[Snow Leopard]

1 hour ago, car720 said:

As someone previously said, when you are a guest in someone's house you show your host the courtesy of obeying his house rules.  To believe that these people do not want to change the local people is to have no understanding of the oneness of islam.

The guess quote doesn't apply to muslims!!! Lets face the fact most of the muslims in Europe whether born there or not are mainly economic settlers of some degree. They came from a sh*t hole for a better life and then want to turn the country of their choice into the sh*t hole they came from. 

[My Thai Life]

@ Bristolboy my reading is from books by acknowledged scholars, all muslim, not propagandists.

 

I wonder if you have ever worked in muslim countries, or if you have any knowledge of Islam at all. I assume you are guided by what you consider to be liberal tolerance, rather than any personal experience or study. 

 

I am a lifelong liberal. Islam is the enemy of liberalism.

 

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, Snow Leopard said:

The guess quote doesn't apply to muslims!!! Lets face the fact most of the muslims in Europe whether born there or not are mainly economic settlers of some degree. They came from a sh*t hole for a better life and then want to turn the country of their choice into the sh*t hole they came from. 

"Lets face the fact most of the muslims in Europe whether born there or not are mainly economic settlers of some degree."

How exactly are people born there "settlers of some degree." ?

 

[giddyup]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

yep, that's the law

Not here it's not, maybe in a couple of western countries. What about if the drunk driver did his drinking at home or at a party, why not blame the alcohol producers for enabling someone to get drunk in the first place. I suppose you agree with the affluenza defense as well. Always trying to pass the buck.

Edited August 3, 2018 by giddyup

[Bluespunk]

5 minutes ago, Snow Leopard said:

The guess quote doesn't apply to muslims!!! Lets face the fact most of the muslims in Europe whether born there or not are mainly economic settlers of some degree. They came from a sh*t hole for a better life and then want to turn the country of their choice into the sh*t hole they came from. 

Some dictionary definitions:

 

Fact: noun

a thing that is indisputably the case.

 

Opinion: noun

a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

 

Propaganda: noun 

derogatory information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.:

 

[My Thai Life]

Look at the vast array of immigrants to the UK in the last 70 years. Look at those who are happy to integrate. Look at those who are not happy to integrate. Look at those who refuse to integrate. Look at those who commit terrorist acts.

 

You will see a pattern emerging unless your rose-tinted glasses have blinded you.

 

As a lifelong liberal I have always resisted illiberalism. Islam is the most illiberal of superstitions.

[simple1]

17 minutes ago, giddyup said:

I suppose you agree with the affluenza defense as well

No, but i do know you live in area of Thailand which is mainly Thai Muslim. Tried articulating your hatred to some of your Muslim neighbours - No. thought not mr keyboard warrior.

Edited August 3, 2018 by simple1

[giddyup]

3 minutes ago, simple1 said:

No, but i do know you live in area of Thailand which is mainly Thai Muslim. tried articulating your hatred to some of your Muslim neighbours - No. thought not mr keyboard warrior.

Your assumption as to where I live is about as accurate as the rest of your opinions.

Edited August 3, 2018 by giddyup

[simple1]

2 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Your assumption as to where I live is about as accurate as the rest of your opinions.

Moved from the Darkside?

[giddyup]

2 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Moved from the Darkside?

The darkside is "mainly muslim"? News to me. I wouldn't be living here if it was.

[Snow Leopard]

28 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

"Lets face the fact most of the muslims in Europe whether born there or not are mainly economic settlers of some degree."

How exactly are people born there "settlers of some degree." ?

 

They came from another country outside of their own. Either new, first, second, third or whatever generation that's my point here.  

[bristolboy]

22 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

Look at the vast array of immigrants to the UK in the last 70 years. Look at those who are happy to integrate. Look at those who are not happy to integrate. Look at those who refuse to integrate. Look at those who commit terrorist acts.

 

You will see a pattern emerging unless your rose-tinted glasses have blinded you.

 

As a lifelong liberal I have always resisted illiberalism. Islam is the most illiberal of superstitions.

So you got some statistical evidence to show that Muslims haven't integrated for the most part? Or you just suffering from observer bias?