UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[Guest]

This topic has been going on for ages. We have heard reasonings from many sides of the topic. 

 

What we don't hear is why. 

 

Why people think brexit is a brilliant thing and why people think it's disastrous for Britain as well ass disastrous for EU. 

 

 @billd766 is one of brexiteer thinkers I personally respect. Therefore I wish to understand why he is so keen to break UK from EU. 

 

What is the reason you want UK to be separated from the rest of us so badly, that it doesn't matter what happens afterwards?

 

What should EU done better to avoid brexit from happening?

 

What should we do to make sure that after brexit, we don't make the same mistake again?

[mommysboy]

9 minutes ago, oilinki said:

This topic has been going on for ages. We have heard reasonings from many sides of the topic. 

 

What we don't hear is why. 

 

Why people think brexit is a brilliant thing and why people think it's disastrous for Britain as well ass disastrous for EU. 

 

 @billd766 is one of brexiteer thinkers I personally respect. Therefore I wish to understand why he is so keen to break UK from EU. 

 

What is the reason you want UK to be separated from the rest of us so badly, that it doesn't matter what happens afterwards?

 

What should EU done better to avoid brexit from happening?

 

What should we do to make sure that after brexit, we don't make the same mistake again?

 

Where have you been....?????

Edited October 26, 2018 by mommysboy

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

Where have you been....?????

I have been to 55 countries. 

[mommysboy]

8 hours ago, nauseus said:

Best result iyo, I know. But the leavers opinion is opposite, as we see the EU itself as an ever-increasing threat to UK sovereignty and democracy and any overturning of the referendum result as a permanently damaging rejection of democracy. 

It's a fair statement said honestly.  

 

 

[mommysboy]

16 minutes ago, oilinki said:

I have been to 55 countries. 

LOL!????

 

It's an ironic, jocular expression- when someone appears to have missed recent history- in this case the whole Brexit discussion.

 

If I can help: the issues are basically:

1. Sovereignty.  Leavers wish to be an independent nation like USA, Australia, Japan, etc.

2. Economic purpose/trade.  Leavers wish to negotiate trade agreements with the EU, and the rest of the world.

3. Political direction.  Leavers don't want to be part of a European super state, which they may also regard as undemocratic, or unsympathetic to British views.

4. Control of borders. Leavers are alarmed by the influx of foreign workers from countries such as Poland, and Romania, and propesed future entrants, and disagree with the unlimited free movement of labour.

 

In my opinion: the matter swung on immigration from the EU, was not helped by austerity measures within the UK, and the vote also occurred at the time of the European migrant crisis.

 

What could EU do better? Reform it's 4 freedoms, so they are not so absolute.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2018 by mommysboy

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, oilinki said:

This topic has been going on for ages. We have heard reasonings from many sides of the topic. 

 

What we don't hear is why. 

 

Why people think brexit is a brilliant thing and why people think it's disastrous for Britain as well ass disastrous for EU. 

 

 @billd766 is one of brexiteer thinkers I personally respect. Therefore I wish to understand why he is so keen to break UK from EU. 

 

What is the reason you want UK to be separated from the rest of us so badly, that it doesn't matter what happens afterwards?

 

What should EU done better to avoid brexit from happening?

 

What should we do to make sure that after brexit, we don't make the same mistake again?

They should have limited the freedom of movement to the EU Grouping
The EU14 grouping includes citizens of Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Republic of Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain and Sweden. Premier League

The EU8 grouping includes citizens of Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungry, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia. League One

The EU2 grouping includes citizens of Bulgaria and Romania League two

and like the Football tables these countries could move up or down depending on performance , gdp salaries Would Greece and Italy  still remain in the Premier League or would they be demoted to League One

[nauseus]

51 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

LOL!????

 

It's an ironic, jocular expression- when someone appears to have missed recent history- in this case the whole Brexit discussion.

 

If I can help: the issues are basically:

1. Sovereignty.  Leavers wish to be an independent nation like USA, Australia, Japan, etc.

2. Economic purpose/trade.  Leavers wish to negotiate trade agreements with the EU, and the rest of the world.

3. Political direction.  Leavers don't want to be part of a European super state, which they may also regard as undemocratic, or unsympathetic to British views.

4. Control of borders. Leavers are alarmed by the influx of foreign workers from countries such as Poland, and Romania, and propesed future entrants, and disagree with the unlimited free movement of labour.

 

In my opinion: the matter swung on immigration from the EU, was not helped by austerity measures within the UK, and the vote also occurred at the time of the European migrant crisis.

 

What could EU do better? Reform it's 4 freedoms, so they are not so absolute.

 

 

It's a fair statement said honestly.  ????

[Guest]

2 hours ago, mommysboy said:

LOL!????

 

It's an ironic, jocular expression- when someone appears to have missed recent history- in this case the whole Brexit discussion.

 

If I can help: the issues are basically:

1. Sovereignty.  Leavers wish to be an independent nation like USA, Australia, Japan, etc.

2. Economic purpose/trade.  Leavers wish to negotiate trade agreements with the EU, and the rest of the world.

3. Political direction.  Leavers don't want to be part of a European super state, which they may also regard as undemocratic, or unsympathetic to British views.

4. Control of borders. Leavers are alarmed by the influx of foreign workers from countries such as Poland, and Romania, and propesed future entrants, and disagree with the unlimited free movement of labour.

 

In my opinion: the matter swung on immigration from the EU, was not helped by austerity measures within the UK, and the vote also occurred at the time of the European migrant crisis.

 

What could EU do better? Reform it's 4 freedoms, so they are not so absolute.

 

 

So I said that I have been to 55 countries. I did my divemaster degree in Taganga, Colombia. Should we next talk about nuclear physics? If that's the way you wish to jump from one topic to another, I'm all game.

 

 

[aright]

7 minutes ago, oilinki said:

So I said that I have been to 55 countries. I did my divemaster degree in Taganga, Colombia. Should we next talk about nuclear physics? If that's the way you wish to jump from one topic to another, I'm all game.

 

 

Mommysboy answer referred to your questions...…..

 

What is the reason you want UK to be separated from the rest of us so badly, that it doesn't matter what happens afterwards?

 

What should EU done better to avoid brexit from happening?

 

He gave you an honest reply which obviously you have no answer to.

 

Now who is jumping from one topic to another?

Where did you do your obfuscation degree?

[Guest]

 

6 minutes ago, aright said:

Mommysboy answer referred to your questions...…..

 

What is the reason you want UK to be separated from the rest of us so badly, that it doesn't matter what happens afterwards?

 

What should EU done better to avoid brexit from happening?

 

He gave you an honest reply which obviously you have no answer to.

 

Now who is jumping from one topic to another?

Where did you do your obfuscation degree?

 

 

What do you mean when you say 

 

Quote

UK to be separated from the rest of us

I suppose you say that you are not from UK. You also don't sound to be from western EU either. Perhaps you are one of those unhappy Polish folks who wish to get back to the Soviet Union era order?

 

I did my first trip's to Poland in mid 90's. Experiencing the Soviet Union era system, when simply buying a bread from a shop was hilarious. There were three people doing the simple transaction, which laster for multiple minutes.

 

Is that what you wish to experience once again?

[aright]

I did not say " UK to be separated from the rest of us"

That was your quote. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, oilinki said:

 

 

 

What do you mean when you say 

 

I suppose you say that you are not from UK. You also don't sound to be from western EU either. Perhaps you are one of those unhappy Polish folks who wish to get back to the Soviet Union era order?

 

I did my first trip's to Poland in mid 90's. Experiencing the Soviet Union era system, when simply buying a bread from a shop was hilarious. There were three people doing the simple transaction, which laster for multiple minutes.

 

Is that what you wish to experience once again?

Or hey, are you perhaps from... tadaa! Soviet Union? 

 

I know blaming some of our brexittes as being Ruskie trolls is tiresome, but what the heck we should do when we have all these nauseous accounts who claim to be something else they are?

 

Should we just give up and say that we are fine with these ruskies, who claim to be brits? Nah. I rather have a discussion with real Brits, than with some ruskie britalikes. 

[Scott]

Inflammatory posts removed along with replies.   Needless bickering is not going to be tolerated nor is inflammatory remarks about members.  

 

Stay on topic and stop with the personal remarks.  

 

[kwilco]

This was known before the referendum; Brexiteers have deliberately put companies like this out of business

 

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/my-business-will-fold-if-uk-leaves-the-eu-brexit/

[vinny41]

15 minutes ago, kwilco said:

This was known before the referendum; Brexiteers have deliberately put companies like this out of business

 

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/my-business-will-fold-if-uk-leaves-the-eu-brexit/

Project fear AGAIN? British haulier claims Brexit is 'economic SUICIDE' for United Kingdom

BREXIT will push European businesses away from the United Kingdom because of increased customs inspections on European Union lorries, British haulier John Shirley claimed.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/895337/Brexit-news-latest-Brexit-update-economy-impact-studies-UK-EU-European-Union-video

 

He was entitled to a single vote in the 2016 EU referendum same as every other eligible electors

[tebee]

Since Scotland voted to stay in the EU and one of the reasons the Scottish independence referendum was lost  was that it would lose it's EU membership if it left the UK, why don't we have another referendum there now about independence on the basis that Sotland retains the UK's EU membership and the rest of the UK leaves Scotland and the EU?  

Edited October 26, 2018 by tebee

[vinny41]

6 minutes ago, tebee said:

Since Scotland voted to stay in the EU and one of the reasons the Scottish independence referendum was lost  was that it would lose it's EU membership if it left the EU, why don't we have another referendum there now about independence on the basis that Sotland retains the UK's EU membership and the rest of the UK leaves Scotland and the EU?  

Idea has already been rejected by the EU

Independent Scotland 'would have to apply for EU membership'

European commission reasserts that Scotland would have no automatic right to being part of EU if it voted to leave UK

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/10/independent-scotland-would-have-to-apply-for-eu-membership

[tebee]

3 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Idea has already been rejected by the EU

Independent Scotland 'would have to apply for EU membership'

European commission reasserts that Scotland would have no automatic right to being part of EU if it voted to leave UK

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/10/independent-scotland-would-have-to-apply-for-eu-membership

I know, what I'm suggesting is that the UK leaves Scotland, therefore letting Scotland remain in it's prefered state of remaining as an EU member And being independent from the UK .

 

The UK ends up out of the EU as the Brexiters prefer - what is wrong with this solution?

[vinny41]

6 minutes ago, tebee said:

I know, what I'm suggesting is that the UK leaves Scotland, therefore letting Scotland remain in it's prefered state of remaining as an EU member And being independent from the UK .

 

The UK ends up out of the EU as the Brexiters prefer - what is wrong with this solution?

In the article link above the EU stated 

A senior EU official has cast doubt over claims that an independent Scotlandcould automatically join the EU or inherit the UK’s membership after Brexit.

The position in Scotland hasn’t changed,” Minor said. There is a clear process for any applicant country under article 49 of the European treaties. “That would also apply to Scotland. If Scotland became an independent country I think article 49 is the normal starting point,” she said.

All the legal documents would have to be re-written and agreed

Its Unlikely Scotland on its own would pass all the tests required by the EU for membership

[kwilco]

Brexit jinhoists are paparticularly fond of erroneous references to famous historical characters....

Let's set a few facts straight about remainer Churchill.

 

https://infacts.org/eu-founding-father-churchill-would-vote-against-brexit/?fbclid=IwAR0Z4XsgfqeXpg5GZCbkCr_X4DdadtLepf7qtqqAHf5hIbyupEEFYUG1JSc

[vinny41]

5 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Brexit jinhoists are paparticularly fond of erroneous references to famous historical characters....

Let's set a few facts straight about remainer Churchill.

 

https://infacts.org/eu-founding-father-churchill-would-vote-against-brexit/?fbclid=IwAR0Z4XsgfqeXpg5GZCbkCr_X4DdadtLepf7qtqqAHf5hIbyupEEFYUG1JSc

irrelevant Churchill died 24th January 1965 as he is dead he wasn't eligible to vote

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

I know, what I'm suggesting is that the UK leaves Scotland, therefore letting Scotland remain in it's prefered state of remaining as an EU member And being independent from the UK .

The UK ends up out of the EU as the Brexiters prefer - what is wrong with this solution?

Sterling.

[SheungWan]

8 hours ago, oilinki said:

This topic has been going on for ages. We have heard reasonings from many sides of the topic. 

What we don't hear is why. 

Why people think brexit is a brilliant thing and why people think it's disastrous for Britain as well ass disastrous for EU. 

 @billd766 is one of brexiteer thinkers I personally respect. Therefore I wish to understand why he is so keen to break UK from EU. 

What is the reason you want UK to be separated from the rest of us so badly, that it doesn't matter what happens afterwards?

What should EU done better to avoid brexit from happening?

What should we do to make sure that after brexit, we don't make the same mistake again?

Why-oh-why-oh-why.

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

In the article link above the EU stated 

A senior EU official has cast doubt over claims that an independent Scotlandcould automatically join the EU or inherit the UK’s membership after Brexit.

The position in Scotland hasn’t changed,” Minor said. There is a clear process for any applicant country under article 49 of the European treaties. “That would also apply to Scotland. If Scotland became an independent country I think article 49 is the normal starting point,” she said.

All the legal documents would have to be re-written and agreed

Its Unlikely Scotland on its own would pass all the tests required by the EU for membership

first step would likely be to ensure that Scotland satisfies the usual criteria for being considered a sovereign state

eg some kind of police/armed forces so that claimed borders can be protected/defended

eg borders would normally have to be agreed with  neighbours, also sea bordes

and a host of other cr.

 

plenty to do

[vinny41]

27 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

first step would likely be to ensure that Scotland satisfies the usual criteria for being considered a sovereign state

eg some kind of police/armed forces so that claimed borders can be protected/defended

eg borders would normally have to be agreed with  neighbours, also sea bordes

and a host of other cr.

 

plenty to do

Here is the EU Accession Process

There are  35 Chapters of the acquis/ negotiating chapters that need to be opened completed signed off

https://ec.europa.eu/neighbourhood-enlargement/sites/near/files/pdf/publication/factsheet_en.pdf

[melvinmelvin]

32 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Here is the EU Accession Process

There are  35 Chapters of the acquis/ negotiating chapters that need to be opened completed signed off

https://ec.europa.eu/neighbourhood-enlargement/sites/near/files/pdf/publication/factsheet_en.pdf

will look when my net connection improves, right now it is worse than bad

 

I assume eu's "work-list" is based on the candidate already being considered as a sovereign state

 

the treaty of treaties lists/describes some of the fairly objective criteria for being a sovereign state

 

[bristolboy]

20 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

A few people have expressed concern about the car industry post Brexit and Just In Time (JIT) supply chains.  The car industry is estimated to employ 0.5 per cent of all UK employees (less than half the number of farmers), and its gross value added to the UK economy is about 0.8 per cent of GDP.

 

A report from the Boston Consulting Group (one of the most well known management consultancies)  "shows that a representative UK auto manufacturer imports only 36 per cent of its components from the EU -  21 per cent are imported from non-EU countries and the largest proportion (43 per cent up from 36 per cent in 2011) are sourced from the UK.  Post-Brexit, the proportion of components sourced from the EU is likely to decline sharply - particularly as the new technologies mentioned above take their place in the supply chain.

 

The 21 per cent currently imported from non-EU countries already undergo customs and other border checks and self-evidently do not create problems with just-in-time supply chains.  Such just-in-time supply chains operate globally across customs borders without difficulty - eg, throughout Asia, or amongst South American, North America, Europe, and Asia.  What makes these supply chains work are modern computer-based logistics systems and border procedures mandated by WTO rules and procedures that dictate 'frictionless trade' - particularly for high volume, regular shipments such as those of the auto industry.”

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/10/25/protectionist-car-lobby-should-not-dictating-terms-brexit-rest/

 

Brexit halves investment in British auto industry

https://www.dw.com/en/brexit-halves-investment-in-british-auto-industry/a-44399220

[vinny41]

12 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

will look when my net connection improves, right now it is worse than bad

 

I assume eu's "work-list" is based on the candidate already being considered as a sovereign state

 

the treaty of treaties lists/describes some of the fairly objective criteria for being a sovereign state

 

Here a list of the Chapters some of these chapters 

Chapters of the acquis

 

 

Chapter 1: Free movement of goods

Chapter 2: Freedom of movement for workers

Chapter 3: Right of establishment and freedom to provide services

Chapter 4: Free movement of capital

Chapter 5: Public procurement

Chapter 6: Company law

Chapter 7: Intellectual property law

Chapter 8: Competition policy

Chapter 9: Financial services

Chapter 10: Information society and media

Chapter 11: Agriculture and rural development

Chapter 12: Food safety, veterinary and phytosanitary policy

Chapter 13: Fisheries

Chapter 14: Transport policy

Chapter 15: Energy

Chapter 16: Taxation

Chapter 17: Economic and monetary policy

Chapter 18: Statistics

Chapter 19: Social policy and employment

Chapter 20: Enterprise and industrial policy

Chapter 21: Trans-European networks

Chapter 22: Regional policy and coordination of structural instruments

Chapter 23: Judiciary and fundamental rights

Chapter 24: Justice, freedom and security

Chapter 25: Science and research

Chapter 26: Education and culture

Chapter 27: Environment

Chapter 28: Consumer and health protection

Chapter 29: Customs union

Chapter 30: External relations

Chapter 31: Foreign, security and defence policy

Chapter 32: Financial control

Chapter 33: Financial and budgetary provisions

Chapter 34 - Institutions

Chapter 35 - Other issues

https://ec.europa.eu/neighbourhood-enlargement/policy/conditions-membership/chapters-of-the-acquis_en

[Stupooey]

3 hours ago, tebee said:

I know, what I'm suggesting is that the UK leaves Scotland, therefore letting Scotland remain in it's prefered state of remaining as an EU member And being independent from the UK .

 

The UK ends up out of the EU as the Brexiters prefer - what is wrong with this solution?

 

I think your proposal is a little too complicated for some people to understand. Perhaps you should try condensing it into a two- or three-word slogan...

[Stupooey]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

irrelevant Churchill died 24th January 1965 as he is dead he wasn't eligible to vote

 

But shouldn't the opinions of dead people count? I thought that was the reason for honouring the 2016 referendum.