UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[Grouse]

37 minutes ago, rixalex said:

Judge immigrants by the person not by the passport.

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Yes indeed. I find the majority of EU people have much closer social mores to us than people from Asia or Africa. I don't see many immigrants from N America or Australasia.

[Grouse]

31 minutes ago, markaoffy said:

Nah! Uk taxpayers are the victims! Damascase has all the ignorance !


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No. You are entirely incorrect.

 

Please do not post fake news here

[rixalex]

1) Sovereignty is not an issue. We already have sovereignty which is why we are able to leave.

Ahem. We are?



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[Grouse]

16 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

Grouse,

in your -not-work- list I fully agree with 6

I don't understand your 8

 

cheerio

 

Yes, being anti muslim is a peccadillo of mine. Sorry about that

 

I find European immigrants are much closer to our own social mores and customs and therefore integrate better

[transam]

4 minutes ago, Grouse said:

No. You are entirely incorrect.

 

Please do not post fake news here

Fake...Mirror...Conclusion....

[Grouse]

7 minutes ago, rixalex said:

"Kick people out". Yeah like that's so easy. You're having a laugh. Have you seen some of the reprobates we haven't been able to kick out. Deary me. And you accuse me of knowing so little.

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Not at all. Why can't the UK have a system as good as Thailand even?

 

You can not tell me that people can not be repatriated to the EU on human rights issues!!

 

No. You are referring to non EU immigrants

 

????

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Yes, being anti muslim is a peccadillo of mine. Sorry about that

 

I find European immigrants are much closer to our own social mores and customs and therefore integrate better

No EU Muslims...?

[Grouse]

9 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

this Muhamedania joke comes from Denmark,

 

in early 70s a new political party was formed, the former and leader, Mr Glistrup, quite a character,

lawyer by profession as far as I remember

this party's focus was primarily the reduction of taxes fees etc etc,

they were not particulary happy about muslims

 

Glistrup never used the term muslim

he always referred to them as Muhamedanians

and he wanted them out of Denmark and back to Muhamedania

 

terminology did create some fuss in the danish parliament

 

 

Good old Mogens!

[Grouse]

6 minutes ago, rixalex said:

 

Ahem. We are?



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Yes, absolutely. And the UK government agrees. I will post a link

[Grouse]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

No EU Muslims...?

I believe those with EU citizen status are in the minority.

 

There are far more muslims in Pakistan than France!

 

But you are technically correct. If a French Algerian muslim wishes to come to the UK and he has employment, we can not stop him unless he is ruled out by one of the control factors our government fails to employ. [and as long as he doesn't show on any of the databases.....]

[tebee]

6 hours ago, transam said:

Me being English I actually failed my English O-level exam, which shows up in my posts here....????

I failed it too !

 

Was an undiagnosed dyslexic at the time.

 

Now I'm a diagnosed dyslexic 

 

Spell checkers help

 

Still can't see when I use the wrong word sometimes though ????

[tebee]

Brexit probably knackers fishermen more than being in the EU

 

 

[sandyf]

3 hours ago, JAG said:

None of what you now say nor the statistics which you quote (and with which I have no cause to argue) addresses my objections to your suggestions that I am an enthusiast for trade deals with despotic or unsavoury regimes, nor that my instinctive dislike of centralised unaccountable beaurocracy, overriding national government, is merely paranoia!

 

It is pretty obvious that by "considerable thought" I include reading and investigating the subject, together with my own various experiences over the years.

You distorted the overall context of my post. By dismissing the the criteria applied by the EU is a direct implication that a less stringent criteria would be more favourable, more favourable terms are certainly not going to come from a market a tenth the size.

This statement "my instinctive dislike of centralised unaccountable beaurocracy, overriding national government," only confirms the extent of the paranoia, instinctive being without "considerable thought".

[transam]

7 minutes ago, tebee said:

I failed it too !

 

Was an undiagnosed dyslexic at the time.

 

Now I'm a diagnosed dyslexic 

 

Spell checkers help

 

Still can't see when I use the wrong word sometimes though ????

I can understand that stuff. Me, had an uncontrollable todger. My trousers would wonder off in all directions, had that for decades. So I had it amputated, no not my trousers..

Mrs.Trans is now happy, plus I now have a degree in English, physics and neurosurgery... Todger is in a glass thing for all to look at in a museum somewhere...Small glass thingy....????

[tebee]

1 minute ago, transam said:

I can understand that stuff. Me, had an uncontrollable todger. My trousers would wonder off in all directions, had that for decades. So I had it amputated, no not my trousers..

Mrs.Trans is now happy, plus I now have a degree in English, physics and neurosurgery... Todger is in a glass thing for all to look at in a museum somewhere...Small glass thingy....????

I find old age cures those problems .....

[transam]

5 minutes ago, tebee said:

I find old age cures those problems .....

For some maybe....For others they keep turning up in Pattaya......With a trendy tank top and trainers...????

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, rixalex said:

 

"Throttle the flow" is jargon speak that sounds good but we all know the truth of the matter is, if you're from the EU and you decide you fancy relocating to the UK, UK authorities can throttle away all they like, you'll still be able to waltz in freely.



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It is statements like that that got us in this mess, say it often enough and the less informed think it is true.

There is no way on this earth that Theresa May will ever put her hand up and say she could have reduced the number of EU migrants using EU legislation but took her eye off the ball.

You have to be blind not to see the number of balls the eye has been taken off, almost one a week, last week poverty and yesterday teenage gamblers, what next?

[JAG]

17 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You distorted the overall context of my post. By dismissing the the criteria applied by the EU is a direct implication that a less stringent criteria would be more favourable, more favourable terms are certainly not going to come from a market a tenth the size.

This statement "my instinctive dislike of centralised unaccountable beaurocracy, overriding national government," only confirms the extent of the paranoia, instinctive being without "considerable thought".

If anyone is "distorting overall contexts" it is you, with unfounded accusations of wishing for trade deals with dubious regimes, and allegations of paranoia.

 

There is little point continuing this discussion though, under the circumstances.

[mogandave]

Enough of the attacks.
 
I do not claim to be "almighty" or even particularly intelligent,
 
I have had an excellent education and I read widely. Thats all.

I think it’s the condescending attitude that may put people off.

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Yes, being anti muslim is a peccadillo of mine. Sorry about that

 

I find European immigrants are much closer to our own social mores and customs and therefore integrate better

ok

 

but why would more immigrants from Africa arrive?

 

[AlexRich]

4 hours ago, rixalex said:

You may not have had a problem with what he said, but are we really expected to believe you would have been arguing now in favour of another referendum, using the arguments you use above about democracy not being a stopped clock etc etc, had remain won? I'm sorry but I don't believe that. You'd be arguing that the vote had been cast and that people had to accept it and move on. And you would have been right. We can't forever be stuck in limbo, inbetween one decision and another. The vote was leave so we leave. If people don't like things once we have left, just like people didn't like things once we had joined in 75, they can campaign for change. That's democracy. You have a vote and the outcome of the vote is respected by winners and losers alike.

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My position, like I think most remainers, is that I'll go along with this as long as responsible steps are taken to minimise the damage to the economy ... no one in the Leave camp was indicating that the UK would just crash out, all of them were promising a good exit deal. I did move on as we were all promised a damage limitation deal. I don't have a problem with others requesting another referendum, that is their right. Nigel Farage would not have gone away nor would the ERG group. 

 

I just watched an interview with the polling expert Professor Curtice who stated that 50% of leavers do not want "no deal", this was from a recent UGOV poll. So the "will of the people" does not support "no deal". What you have now is a government that cannot seal a deal and a parliament in gridlock. The only fair and sensible option is to put the issue back into the hands of the people of the UK. If leavers believe that the result will be the same why are they so scared? We all know thew answer to that question, they would lose. You cannot undermine democracy by a democratic vote.

 

 

[mogandave]

 
My position, like I think most remainers, is that I'll go along with this as long as responsible steps are taken to minimise the damage to the economy ... no one in the Leave camp was indicating that the UK would just crash out, all of them were promising a good exit deal. I did move on as we were all promised a damage limitation deal. I don't have a problem with others requesting another referendum, that is their right. Nigel Farage would not have gone away nor would the ERG group. 
 
I just watched an interview with the polling expert Professor Curtice who stated that 50% of leavers do not want "no deal", this was from a recent UGOV poll. So the "will of the people" does not support "no deal". What you have now is a government that cannot seal a deal and a parliament in gridlock. The only fair and sensible option is to put the issue back into the hands of the people of the UK. If leavers believe that the result will be the same why are they so scared? We all know thew answer to that question, they would lose. You cannot undermine democracy by a democratic vote.
 
 

What responsible steps would need to be taken for you to go along with it?

[AlexRich]

7 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

What responsible steps would need to be taken for you to go along with it?

 

Entering into a transition deal with the EU whilst sorting out the longer term trading relationship, something that the May plan delivers on. I didn't expect a great deal from the EU, I knew it would not be as good as what we have now, but at least it minimises the economic damage and gives business some clarity and time to adjust. A sensible and responsible approach given that some people's businesses and jobs are on the line. I would not support a "no deal" outcome ... which is consistent with most MPs. 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

 

I think it’s the condescending attitude that may put people off.

 

Well that's jolly kind of you. Well done!

[Grouse]

57 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

ok

 

but why would more immigrants from Africa arrive?

 

We will have to get them from somewhere!

 

I think many Europeans are put off by our apparent nasty attitude whether we mean it or not. It's off putting.

[Grouse]

31 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

My position, like I think most remainers, is that I'll go along with this as long as responsible steps are taken to minimise the damage to the economy ... no one in the Leave camp was indicating that the UK would just crash out, all of them were promising a good exit deal. I did move on as we were all promised a damage limitation deal. I don't have a problem with others requesting another referendum, that is their right. Nigel Farage would not have gone away nor would the ERG group. 

 

I just watched an interview with the polling expert Professor Curtice who stated that 50% of leavers do not want "no deal", this was from a recent UGOV poll. So the "will of the people" does not support "no deal". What you have now is a government that cannot seal a deal and a parliament in gridlock. The only fair and sensible option is to put the issue back into the hands of the people of the UK. If leavers believe that the result will be the same why are they so scared? We all know thew answer to that question, they would lose. You cannot undermine democracy by a democratic vote.

 

 

It is now a choice between May's deal or no Brexit

 

It is absolutely not worth it.

 

Most Brexiter claims have been debunked.

 

What precisely do we get from May's deal apart from soothing some Brexiters?

 

 

[Patriot1066]

On 11/20/2018 at 9:09 PM, nontabury said:

True, plus I don’t think the Spanish and Greek tourist industry would be too happy, especially with their youth unemployment rate being so high.

 What I cannot understand, is why the two British negotiators ????May and Robbins failed to take this and other weaknesses on the E.u side into consideration.

We have lost now our Political class have done the deal and made WTO rules a no option as not planned for it. I just listened to David Davis seems there were negotiations going on behind is back. It looks like this has all been planned.

 

Wait to see the 'Direct action we will be taking' including severely reducing Irelands road bridge across the UK. 

 

Let the battle to save our country begin.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiphPuP1-feAhUsB8AKHenvCEcQFjACegQIBxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.belfasttelegraph.co.uk%2Fbusiness%2Fnorthern-ireland%2Fbritish-land-bridge-to-europe-for-exports-from-republic-of-ireland-set-to-remain-open-36385610.html&usg=AOvVaw0j7NPadtoucvdI18H8ZVum

 

Fishing will be the next sell out!

[anon537687643]

To Grouse without quoting His diatribe it’s “Drivel “


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[AlexRich]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

It is now a choice between May's deal or no Brexit

 

It is absolutely not worth it.

 

Most Brexiter claims have been debunked.

 

What precisely do we get from May's deal apart from soothing some Brexiters?

 

 

 

We will be worse off under May's deal, but no where near as bad as a "no deal" exit ... both are inferior to what we have now. The problem is that the pendulum has not swung far enough public opinion wise on May's deal to just abandon it. The pendulum has swung far enough on "no deal" ... few want this, and if this is the only deal in town then I think that a people's vote is a fair solution. 

 

[AlexRich]

5 minutes ago, Patriot1066 said:

We have lost now our Political class have done the deal and made WTO rules a no option as not planned for it. I just listened to David Davis seems there were negotiations going on behind is back. It looks like this has all been planned.

 

Wait to see the 'Direct action we will be taking' including severely reducing Irelands road bridge across the UK. 

 

Let the battle to save our country begin.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiphPuP1-feAhUsB8AKHenvCEcQFjACegQIBxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.belfasttelegraph.co.uk%2Fbusiness%2Fnorthern-ireland%2Fbritish-land-bridge-to-europe-for-exports-from-republic-of-ireland-set-to-remain-open-36385610.html&usg=AOvVaw0j7NPadtoucvdI18H8ZVum

 

Fishing will be the next sell out!

 

It looks like Dad's Army are on manoeuvres again ... "you silly boy"!