Riders of powerful "Big Bikes" will take separate tests and have different licenses to other motorcyclists

[stanleycoin]

15 minutes ago, dallen52 said:

 

A lot of take outs from this.

But where's the responsibility of the seller?

Apart from making a sale?

What !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just tell me what responsibility the bike shop sales staff have and why over that accident ?

 

Ps what's with the stupid, don't understand face.

your the one that asked the question !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited August 27, 2018 by stanleycoin

[bheard]

Wrong. I am talking about bigger bikes here, say from at least 250cc up, if other countries can allow it then so can Thailand. If the bike riders ride with common sense there would not be any more blood and guts than other vehicles, they could easily cruise at 80 or 90 Ks per Hr in the inside lane.

Wrong. Dr Tuner is correct. This is Thailand. Thai riders with big bikes learnt how to ride on small bikes. And Thai car drivers dodge lanes way more than in other countries, add to that large speed differentials, and there's every reason for increased carnage.

Sent from my E5823 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[NoshowJones]

23 minutes ago, bheard said:

Wrong. Dr Tuner is correct. This is Thailand. Thai riders with big bikes learnt how to ride on small bikes. And Thai car drivers dodge lanes way more than in other countries, add to that large speed differentials, and there's every reason for increased carnage.

Sent from my E5823 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

If these Thai riders you are on about used some common sense there would be no reason for increased carnage, and you can forget about "large speed differentials". Dr Tuner is not correct.

[NoshowJones]

On 8/22/2018 at 11:38 PM, snowflake said:

Having ridden here in Thailand for many years I do have to say that the kids here are fairly good on bikes,  maybe training would be good, but if you consider how many kids get. On bikes here then it's amazing that there are not more accidents. 

 

The scale for the license should be beginner 0-200 cc (that covers most bikes and scooters 90 percent will use. 

Medium 201-500cc (for those who are interested in bigger bikes and wants to take the step up,  also an age restriction maybe 17 years old). 

Big Bike, 501 cc and up,  over 18 years.

This way you can also make. The testing more focused on the  riders.  All kids here should learn about riding in school. 

You make a sensible post, but you cannot teach common sense, and that is something most Thais do not have, especially on the roads.

[NoshowJones]

On 8/23/2018 at 8:56 AM, essox essox said:

THIS is incorporated in the UK why is Thailand so slow in moving forward?? I do NOT mean the last paragraph

At least in the UK motorbikes above a certain cc can use all the motorways and carriageways not like this backward country.

[NoshowJones]

On 8/23/2018 at 9:11 AM, tomacht8 said:

If you want to survive as a motorcyclist, it is important to always anticipate the possible driving errors of other traffic participants and to see ahead. Brain is necessary for this and a sensible driving training. The driving test here, in a closed place, 2 laps and one braking exercise with low speed, is a joke. 

 

Even the learning of self-responsibility is poor here.
Five Examples:
1. Driving without light in the dark. A new light bulb costs 10 baht and can save life. Especially with the many cars here with tinted windows. You simply can not see this motorbike idiots with broken lighting in the darkness.
2. Driving without helmet.
3. Driving with one hand on the handlebars and play there phone with the other.
4. Forget to turn the blinker off after turning.
5. Worn tires and broken brakes.
That even a motorcycle can be traffic insecure, many do not understand here.

 

Lack of training is cause of accident no.1 in Thailand.

 

There is a lack of training, but I would say there is a more lack of common sense.

[NoshowJones]

On 8/23/2018 at 9:35 AM, overherebc said:

I think BMW were the only ones to corform when it was suggested. Don't know if they still do though or how many counties made it law.

A Hayabusa at 100 bhp is like a steak pie with no steak in it.

True, there is not a lot of steak in a Fray Bentos steak pie.

[NoshowJones]

On 8/23/2018 at 12:42 PM, Hummin said:

To start with proper driving schools and learning would be a good start. Anything else is just denying the real problem about thai driving culture and mentality! A 250r bike is as much as a deadly weapon or suicide tool as an 750 adventure bike. 

 

Why so hard to see? 

If Thailand decided to get "proper" driving schools, they would need to go outside of Thailand to get "proper" teachers.

[NoshowJones]

On 8/23/2018 at 1:01 PM, kannot said:

Dont know what country you are from but in my country (UK) deaths are extremely  low, close to the very   bottom in the world

There are people on motorbikes killed regularly on the roads in Scotland, and there is a population

of less than 5 million.

[NoshowJones]

On 8/24/2018 at 11:42 AM, DJ54 said:

You never know how these things will pan out......logical or ridiculous we will have to wait and see. 

No, you should not have to sit another test, but hey! This is Thailand.

[NoshowJones]

On 8/25/2018 at 11:31 PM, dallen52 said:

When I think big bike I'm thinking big enough to get your leg over and throbs between your legs..

 

I did see 400 listed elsewhere for the bike size thought of as big. 

 

I went two years before my normal bike license up to 250cc was then revised to open or big bike.

Plus doing the Honda advance ride training. 

Had one since 1968.

 

Several steps need implementation here. Like yesterday. 

 

A minimum age to ride a bike. 

 

No selling bikes to unlicensed people. 

 

No rental of bikes without proof of license. 

 

Learner plates displayed for the first year, and no passengers. 

 

Probation licences after the learning process. One year.

 

Speed restrictions and zero drink until they are proficient. 

Off the L and P plates.

 

All bike modification must be registered and inspected. 

Roadworthy certification a must.

 

Motor bike taxis to have unique license plates to identify them. 

 

Insurance mandatory to register. 

 

Helmets compulsory. 

 

All bikes use the left lane, all driving in the same direction. 

 

Enforcement of all fines.

No wais or pushups. In lieu of. 

 

That wasnt hard was it... JFDI.

Pick a date and implement. 

 

"All bikes use the left lane, all driving in the same direction"

Absolutely wrong, it all depends on road and traffic conditions.  What about if a motorcyclist wants to do a U or right hand turn further ahead on a  two or more lane carriageway? He/she needs to get into the far right lane in plenty of time.

[NoshowJones]

On 8/26/2018 at 12:42 PM, Kieran00001 said:

 

Its not a mental disorder, it is a lack of education.

"it is a lack of education". Not so much, more a lack of common sense.

[DJ54]

Education, common sense, being responsible, me first syndrome and going around with their head in a cloud. 

 

Small little town town near where our village is. Two lane street one each side goes through town. 

 

On moto in my lane. A car was passing a car that was passing a car... so three abreast and all trying to be first. The third car

was taking most of my lane and I pulled onto the grass area. 

 

She he looked at me like I was in the wrong. 

[Kieran00001]

37 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

"it is a lack of education". Not so much, more a lack of common sense.

 

I think a lot of what appears to be common sense to the one who possesses it was actually taught to them at a young age, if instead of being taught the consequences of not obeying road safety rules but instead listening in on conversations speculating on fate, karma and the supernatural, then that could also appear to be common sense.

[dallen52]

1 hour ago, possum1931 said:

There are people on motorbikes killed regularly on the roads in Scotland, and there is a population

of less than 5 million.

26 deaths in 2017, motorcycle related.(sadly)

 

That's about half a days worth here in Thailand. 

[dallen52]

1 hour ago, possum1931 said:

"it is a lack of education". Not so much, more a lack of common sense.

If you rule out the karma percentage 

About 30%

Then rule out the mai bpen  rai percentage 

About 40%

We are left with about 30% to try to educate. 

 

Better than none I suppose. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by dallen52

[dallen52]

1 hour ago, possum1931 said:

"All bikes use the left lane, all driving in the same direction"

Absolutely wrong, it all depends on road and traffic conditions.  What about if a motorcyclist wants to do a U or right hand turn further ahead on a  two or more lane carriageway? He/she needs to get into the far right lane in plenty of time.

I think without the nit picking, most of the points I and a few others have tried to make is, yes there is a lot of room for improvement. 

 

Starting at at an early age. 

And why not be it part of school curriculum, seeing as many ride bikes to school. 

 

One day they will pass new road laws and regulations and enforce them.

 

Hopefully the idiots and uneducated bike drivers haven't taken the rest of us out before then, in their efforts to kill themselves. 

[NoshowJones]

1 hour ago, dallen52 said:

I think without the nit picking, most of the points I and a few others have tried to make is, yes there is a lot of room for improvement. 

 

Starting at at an early age. 

And why not be it part of school curriculum, seeing as many ride bikes to school. 

 

One day they will pass new road laws and regulations and enforce them.

 

Hopefully the idiots and uneducated bike drivers haven't taken the rest of us out before then, in their efforts to kill themselves. 

Good post, but you can only successfully educate if people want to be educated, the problem to is the teachers can be as bad as the kids. One day I was walking in a local indoor market and a teacher on a motorbike deliberately kept nudging me with her bike to try and get me out of her way, it did not work. 

 

The only way kids or most Thai adults can be taught to drive or ride properly is to get instructors from a western country, and that is never going to happen.

[Jdiddy]

5 hours ago, dallen52 said:

The young Thai said the bike was one million baht.

And he had only made one payment so far..

It was his first bike...

 

 

Thats really not going to end well

[kwilco]

Yet another half baked dictum.

This kind of legislation has been in force in Europe for nearly 50 years and is very easy to emulate as all the basic problems parameters and flaws have been tackled........yet this announcement, already filled with flaws as it is, shows all the signs of having that uniquely Thai characteristic of ignoring the science and going for how the minister feels at the time......The result is inevitably destined to be a monumental flop.

They havent even bothered to define "big bike" and in fact most countries only have one motorcycle licence, and a test that allows you to drive over certain sizes.

In fact "big bikes" are relatively new to Thailand as a legal form of transport and need to be fully integrated into a comprehensive road safety program which, also needs to include training, and 4wheel driver awarenless programs. On top of that Thailand has some of the most unsuitable roads for bikes anywhere in the world.

All this announcement suggests to me is that when it comes to road safety, Thai authorities are still blithely sliding sideways along the road to nowhere.

[kwilco]

6 hours ago, possum1931 said:

"it is a lack of education". Not so much, more a lack of common sense.

only someone with a lack of education would think that common sense is a real and definable thing....

[moose7117]

3 hours ago, kwilco said:

On top of that Thailand has some of the most unsuitable roads for bikes anywhere in the world.

 

Are you serious ?

Thailand has some amazing roads and unlike somewhere like Australia, that is governed by idiots and over regulated into a fun free zone, you can actually ride here to suit local conditions.

 

People are forgetting that the blame rets solely with the guy riding/driving, it is his choice to either behave in a risk free manner or drive/ride in an unsafe manner.

you certainly cannot put any blame on the seller of the bikes.

can you blame 7/11 for selling aspirin ?

if you take too much aspirin it WILL kill you.

Macro sells drain cleaner, if you drink that , it will kill you.

 

Yamaha, to name one, makes bikes, if you operate these bikes in a safe manner you probably won't die , unless you stop for a few dozen aspirin with a Drano chaser.

 

the laws are a step in the right direction but what i read was that the laws are still being discussed and formulated, so please forgive them if they have not decided if what is a "big bike" yet.

wait and see what they come up with, it might be actually practical and workable for once.

 

[kwilco]

On 8/22/2018 at 11:11 AM, robblok said:

Hard to accept your wrong.. what are your qualifications ?

 

Just1Voice is right.. under 300cc is a not a big bike. I have driven scooters and big bikes here. Driven anything from 100,125,155,250,400 and 650cc. I can tell you that it really starts above 250 to 300cc. your suggestion is laughable.. so tell me what is your experience. I got 8 years of driving experience here in Thailand. 

I think you will find many have considerably more experience than yourself and are able to derive considerably more reasoned thought on  road safety too.

[kwilco]

"People are forgetting that the blame rets solely with the guy riding/driving, it is his choice to either behave in a risk free manner or drive/ride in an unsafe manner."

 

comments like this show how little people understand about road safety.

[dallen52]

16 hours ago, possum1931 said:

Good post, but you can only successfully educate if people want to be educated, the problem to is the teachers can be as bad as the kids. One day I was walking in a local indoor market and a teacher on a motorbike deliberately kept nudging me with her bike to try and get me out of her way, it did not work. 

 

The only way kids or most Thai adults can be taught to drive or ride properly is to get instructors from a western country, and that is never going to happen.

Agree.

I made mention in a previous post that I worked as a Training and Assessment instructor.

Here and in Australia. 

Bloody hard work here.

 

The mental concentration just seems to be non applied..

I had to take mobile phones off people several times. 

And these were adults in responsible positions.

 

The sooner Thailand grownups and the powers that be realise that they really do need overseas assistance to process forward, the better for all.

[dallen52]

16 hours ago, Jdiddy said:

 

 

Thats really not going to end well

That was a point I expressed earlier and was jumped on for not replying again. 

 

Sure the selling dealer wants to sell superbikes and obviously sell the finance and insurance to go with then. 

 

But a moral (don't you just love that word, especially in Thailand) responsibility should be present somewhere in the chain.

Selling a million baht Ducati to a first time rider is no different from renting bikes to tourists who have never riden a bike before. 

 

I will get off my soap box now.

[5633572526]

Willing to bet the majority of motorcycle deaths are 150cc and under so how about training those riders. 

Edited August 28, 2018 by 5633572526

[Lobber]

Big bikes not that bigger problem, most big bike riders are old enough and sensible.

Government should stop this sort of thing .. youngsters should be trained.

 

 

https://www.stickboybkk.com/viral/careless-kids-motorbike-ride-path-oncoming-car/

Edited August 28, 2018 by Lobber

[stanleycoin]

28 minutes ago, dallen52 said:

 

I will get off my soap box now.

 Good. 

[Kerryd]

One problem people seem to forget, regarding allowing motorcycles on the toll highways, is that if they decided to allow some bikes on them (i.e. anything over 600ccs), the very next day the toll highways would be clogged with every Somchai in the country on his rusted out 100cc scooter with food vendor cart attached.

Much like the majority of TV readers, most people would only read the headline of an article and if they saw something like "Motorcycles over 600ccs allowed on Toll Highways as of 1 April", all they would read would be "Motorcycles - Allowed - on - Toll Highways" and the next day they'd be queuing up at the toll booths with their smoking braziers of chicken/catfish, som tam, drink carts, fruit carts, etc, etc .
 

And no - they won't stop those smaller scooters from entering the toll ways because, like everywhere else in the country, what happens (or is supposed to happen) in one place will be different than what happens in another place.
Entry point "A" in this area may stop the smaller stuff but 2 kilometers away on a different entry point they'll be waving them through as fast as possible to avoid traffic jams. And that would probably happen all over the country. In another part of the country they might stop just the food carts but not the scooters. In another place they may let anything that looks like a "big bike" through, even if it's just a 150cc Phantom or 250cc CBR.

And if they try to stop the smaller "bikes" from entering they would risk confrontations at every entry point from every Thai who would likely be screaming, ranting and raving about how he/she has every bit as much right to be there as that guy who just blatted past on his 1400cc cruiser or crotch rocket.
I can literally see it now, when you get to the first toll booth and there's a traffic jam as each lane is blocked by scooter food carts arguing that they are now allowed onto the tollways because they are "motorcycles" too.

 

Good-bye to having clear shoulders to pull onto in the event of a flat or other problem. 

Good-bye to being able to pull into the middle or right lane to pass anyone, as the trucks that are normally in the left lane will all be in the middle lane, trying to pass all the food vendors who are in the left lane, because the shoulder is full of broken down scooter/carts and people who have decided to set up "shop" on the shoulders, meaning all the other traffic will be squeezed into the right lane, which will often be blocked by big trucks and buses trying to pass slightly slower big trucks and buses. Much like what happens already, except with a lot more scooters trying to squeeze in and around every other vehicle on the road.

I'd love to be able to travel on the toll highways. Would make some of my trips a lot easier (and faster) and I might even be tempted to try and ride down to Phuket/Krabi one day, but you'd be really rolling the dice on riding on those highways. (It's a pain in the @55 to get to Phuket from Pattaya without going on toll highways apparently, to get around Bangkok.)
 

I've seen people do some seriously stupid things (in cars, trucks, big trucks and buses) and there have been more than a few close calls as the driver of the vehicle I was in (taxi or friend's vehicle) was nearly in an accident.

The big difference I've noticed between the toll highways and the regular ones is that everyone does the same things, only at faster speeds. Sudden braking, lane changes, no signal lights, driving like they own the road because their vehicle is more expensive than someone else's.

(But there are fewer "u-turns" and people suddenly entering from the left without looking which is probably the cause of 25+% of the total accidents)

Obviously, most of the accidents that happen now (involving motorcycles) happen on the regular roads and highways. Most of them are probably caused by either driving too fast or drinking (or both). I've seen a lot of people that think they don't need to slow down just because they can't see the road (due to monsoon rains or smoke from burning cane fields).

There is no such thing as "driving to the conditions" (or in other words, slowing down when the conditions are poor) over here and even the concept of not driving faster than you can see (i.e. if you are doing 140 but your headlights are only illuminating 10 meters of road ahead of you).
I made the girlfriend get her headlights fixed after one trip. At a stop, her lights barely lit up the road 10 meters (30 feet) ahead of her and then she'd be flying down highway 331 or 359 at 120-140 without a care in the world. Absolutely no chance in h3ll of stopping or avoiding anything that may have been on the road ahead of her and absolutely no understanding about "overdriving your lights".
 

And as we (should) all know, there are a lot of riders (Thai and foreign) who seem to think that every time they get on a bike they have to be red-lining it or it isn't really "riding", regardless of the conditions (road, weather, traffic, sobriety).

There is ZERO reason to believe that they'd act any differently on the toll highways.

 

So yes, it would be nice (and convenient) to ride (big bikes) on the toll ways but I don't think it will happen anytime soon and I think it will be utter chaos if they try it.