More staff issues ,be warned

[mogandave]

Did you see the quotes? It was the OP's statement, but I used it to somewhat discount the statement that the OP was paying them peanuts. I believe it still does, even at only B300/day since they have the added bennies of house, electric, water, bike, and rice.  Don't you?

It’s minimum wage, he legally can’t pay them less.

They get some extras as does most anyone working for minimum.

The problem is, there is plenty of minimum wage work around that is easier than working in the hot sun.

[JaiLai]

It’s minimum wage, he legally can’t pay them less.

They get some extras as does most anyone working for minimum.

The problem is, there is plenty of minimum wage work around that is easier than working in the hot sun.

Such as?


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[kannot]

On 8/24/2018 at 2:16 PM, mike324 said:

For a outdoor under the sun type of job, you would need to pay 600-700 baht per day for workers to work. Folks here don't give a damn, foreign labor is getting pickier by the day too, thai laws are actually benefiting the foreign labors allowing them to switch jobs easier. 

 

work offered for one person 5  day week 14k = 700 a  day+  house + electric+ water+ motorbike.

[kannot]

51 minutes ago, mogandave said:

It’s minimum wage, he legally can’t pay them less.

They get some extras as does most anyone working for minimum.

The problem is, there is plenty of minimum wage work around that is easier than working in the hot sun.

I dont pay minimum wage the pair were on 450 a  day + benefits and 5  day week...............heres an update, sacked the thieving <deleted> this  morning, hes  taken at least 100 big  fish I mean  about  50cm sized, our  police friend came and confirmed that when hed been here he could strongly smell fish on the man and  "no he hadnt  been cooking it" reckon he was  selling it someplace near here.

The fishing net had been used as I tested it by tying a  small bowtie  knot  in and when I came back it was  all altered.

Docked about 3000 off what we owed him, he hasnt worked for the last 5  days either whilst Ive been in  Bangkok.

New  staff starting Friday salary 14k one man thats 700 baht a day + all above benefits as mentioned.

My opinion of many Thais is they are very much like this, sure theres a few good honest hard workers but its a small minority, as mentioned 1 in 20. Lazy greedy, selfish whatever  you give them just isnt  enough and  any  opportunity to take from you will be used.

To all you  Thai lovers............wake  up, my opinions have been formed over 12  years 6 of which have been employing staff treating them fairly and kind makes  no odds  whatsoever, 95% is dross, the culture lets them get away with it because to be honest Id  be giving them a  real good  smack if  I could.

 

[kannot]

On 8/24/2018 at 1:53 PM, off road pat said:

They always want more, it will never be enough. I can't possibly count the people I Know that had staff problems.

I have several friends with high end restaurants. The waiters and kook's get very good pay and the tips are divided amongst all. The tips are mostly more than there regular pay !

When they get there pay? they don't come the next day because they spend it all last night !!!

They don't come as they please, sometimes a flimsy excuse or no excuse at all.

Poeple who dont know really dont know how it is to deal with this crap, have no idea of what its like "now" with staff, maybe some years back it wa s better now its  pretty abysmal, the endless lies, never ever an honest word said by them, wonder if their whole life is  a fabrication, they usually arrive with 0 baht and need  daily  payment, its quite  pathetic  and they are the first to bleat "were poor"....not hard to see why

[kannot]

On 8/24/2018 at 3:13 PM, JaiLai said:

No you don’t - 400 baht max


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it does  vary quite a bit we've  found, up in rural Issan theyll work for  less, round here they want at least 400 and any building work its  500.

[kannot]

1 hour ago, JaiLai said:

 

I actually have my 2 regulars coming tomorrow, they initially started coming for 350 but I’m more than happy with their work so pay them 400.

That’s just the sort of guy I am.

Nothing to do with luck buttercup...


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got any spare??

[kannot]

23 hours ago, grollies said:

@kannot how long have you lived in Thailand?

permanently  about 6 years but coming 4  times per  year for a month for another 6 years total 12

[ratcatcher]

On 8/23/2018 at 1:04 PM, NCC1701A said:

I put on a mask when I water the garden in front of my house.

Good idea.

[JaiLai]

got any spare??

No mate - sorry....

Everything you say I totally agree with, dealing with this lot is a nightmare....


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[mogandave]

Such as?


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What such as, places to work or benefits?

Factory work is easier, as is retail.

Benefits often include meal, transportation allowances. Also, shift, production and attendance bonuses. Annual bonuses of 1 to 4 months pay.

[JaiLai]

What such as, places to work or benefits?

Factory work is easier, as is retail.

Benefits often include meal, transportation allowances. Also, shift, production and attendance bonuses. Annual bonuses of 1 to 4 months pay.

Does factory / retail work not require some sort of paperwork? The very minimum a school cert or something?

The people that work for minimum wage have nothing, often unable to read and write, no other prospects but menial jobs.


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[The Deerhunter]

On 8/23/2018 at 3:17 AM, fanjita said:

You're a great guy, kannot.  I wish you well with your staffing issues.  

 

It's a tough one in LOS, as is anywhere, but with a little refinement and management you might improve your chances.

Are you in the business or habit of regularly employing staff in Thailand or are you just speculating wildly on his situation.?

[baansgr]

On 8/23/2018 at 2:46 AM, kannot said:

doesnt matter what you pay, anything more substantive?

I really feel for you, after 12 years of absolute nonsense working here, I retired early to save my sanity. As you say, regardless of salary, benefits it dosnt matter...its the Thai way or the highway. Good luck in your search for new staff

[mogandave]

Does factory / retail work not require some sort of paperwork? The very minimum a school cert or something?

The people that work for minimum wage have nothing, often unable to read and write, no other prospects but menial jobs.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

I thought you said they were well paid, now you say they’re “...people that work for minimum wage and have nothing...”

Which is it?

In any event, most factory work typically requires a nothing but a Thai ID card. They do have to fill out an application, so I guess that mandates they read and write.

[JaiLai]

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

 

I thought you said they were well paid, now you say they’re “...people that work for minimum wage and have nothing...”

Which is it?

In any event, most factory work typically requires a nothing but a Thai ID card. They do have to fill out an application, so I guess that mandates they read and write.

 

 

I don't understand what you mean??

 

I think if this chap is offering to pay 14K a month, that's being well paid for menial work.

 

Interesting about factory work, guess that means they're just as lazy as what everyone has spoken about, which is also my experience for the majority of them.

 

[mogandave]

I don't understand what you mean??
 
I think if this chap is offering to pay 14K a month, that's being well paid for menial work.
 
Interesting about factory work, guess that means they're just as lazy as what everyone has spoken about, which is also my experience for the majority of them.
 

Yeah, I don’t understand what you mean either.

[JaiLai]

11 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

Yeah, I don’t understand what you mean either.

 

Perfect....

[blackcab]

I have edited a number of posts to remove deliberate attempts to bypass the profanity filter.

 

If a profane word is on the filter list, please do not slightly misspell the word or use symbols just to get it past the filter.

 

Thank you.

[seajae]

I have had workers a few times to do labouring jobs, work that myself when I am pain free( and able to do any physical stuff for an hour or so) and my wife would do, while they usually start well as soon as you turn your back they stop and start doing things their way or simply dont do it at all. We pay well, 500 baht for 4 or 5 hours work depending what it is and supply lunch and drinks, like kannot we often work with them, we have trouble even finding workers that are willing to do it and it is easy work, what amazes me is the fact that even paying good money for very easy work they dont want to do it, they want money but dont want to work for it. Even my wifes cousin did the same thing, told us he had worked 4 hours so we paid him then found out he had only worked 15 minutes and gone home, many are simply not trustworthy, to me it appears a lot to be basic laziness

Edited August 25, 2018 by seajae

[mogandave]

I have had workers a few times to do labouring jobs, work that myself when I am pain free( and able to do any physical stuff for an hour or so) and my wife would do, while they usually start well as soon as you turn your back they stop and start doing things their way or simply dont do it at all. We pay well, 500 baht for 4 or 5 hours work depending what it is and supply lunch and drinks, like kannot we often work with them, we have trouble even finding workers that are willing to do it and it is easy work, what amazes me is the fact that even paying good money for very easy work they dont want to do it, they want money but dont want to work for it. Even my wifes cousin did the same thing, told us he had worked 4 hours so we paid him then found out he had only worked 15 minutes and gone home, many are simply not trustworthy, to me it appears a lot to be basic laziness

Yet the automotive industry is thriving...

[JingerBen]

2 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

Yet the automotive industry is thriving...

 

Indeed it is, and the country as a whole has modernized to a great extent since I first came here forty years ago.

Somebody knows how to get productive work out of Thais, Laotians, Khmers, and Burmese.

[JaiLai]

2 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

Yet the automotive industry is thriving...

 

Not many manual jobs left in the automotive industry these days, it's all computerized / automated machines, that's why it's thriving, not because of a skilled local work force....

[thaiguzzi]

On ‎8‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 2:32 AM, kannot said:

Now....tell me how your staff are "wonderful"

My staff are wonderful.

[mogandave]

Not many manual jobs left in the automotive industry these days, it's all computerized / automated machines, that's why it's thriving, not because of a skilled local work force....

Clearly you know little of the automotive industry beyond what you see on the Discovery Channel

[geriatrickid]

1 hour ago, JaiLai said:

Not many manual jobs left in the automotive industry these days, it's all computerized / automated machines, that's why it's thriving, not because of a skilled local work force....

 

The automobile sector  data says otherwise.

1. The sector has been growing  significantly, and associated with that are the number of jobs. Thailand  went from 483,000 jobs in 2010 to 700,000 jobs in 2016, and is still growing.

 

2. There are a significant number of skilled workers, and that too is growing. Thailand has a national education and training strategy to train labour for the industry. Despite that, a large portion of the sector's labour is unskilled  and not "automated'. The unskilled labour do the mundane tasks of cleaning, moving stock, preparing and shipping  parts & finished products, and other general duties such as landscaping, cafeteria staffing, guards etc.

 

The Thailand BOI provides this interesting item;

With 29 universities and other institutes which provide automotive and mechanical engineering programs, it is forecasted that, in 2021, 61% of all workforces in Thai automotive industry are high-skilled labor with high vocational diploma or above, 27% with bachelor’s in engineering degree and 5% with master’s degree or above. Many auto assemblers in Thailand, i.e., Isuzu, Toyota and Honda, have their own employee training programs which help improve their competitiveness and efficiency.

 

3. Note the last sentence above, which explains alot. Training. The employers invest in their workers. Retention is high in the industry because the pay is relatively good and their are benefits.

 

In consideration of the above, your outright dismissal of the others' comments is not  supported by the  industry data..

 

In respect to the OP, the reality is that the current pay and working conditions are not sufficient to attract and to retain good labour. Thailand has near full employment and it does have a labour shortage. In the capitalist system, and free markets, labour is an input, much as fertilizer or water is. If the input is in short supply, then the cost of the input usually increases. 

In plain language, the pay and working conditions need to  be modified. Even though the OP believes that they are adequate, the results demonstrate that they are not attracting quality staff.  Thailand is not North Korea where the peasants can be compelled to work on the farm.

 

 

Edited August 26, 2018 by geriatrickid
spelling -ugh

[poohy]

There seems to be an understanding here that the minimum wage 300THB must be paid, in reality in the real world it isn't,apart from Homepro 7/11 Makro etc

 

Wifes daughter  came down to Prachuap applied for hotel job(private Thai hotel room rate 2500 plus per night) daily rate 260/280 per day.

 

Around here the guys would rather do nothing and drink lao cao or beer all day on money from wife family etc rather than work.

Also I am pretty sure the local farming mob around here do not pay 300THB a day maybe they get around it by coercing family members

[mogandave]

There seems to be an understanding here that the minimum wage 300THB must be paid, in reality in the real world it isn't,apart from Homepro 7/11 Makro etc
 
Wifes daughter  came down to Prachuap applied for hotel job(private Thai hotel room rate 2500 plus per night) daily rate 260/280 per day.
 
Around here the guys would rather do nothing and drink lao cao or beer all day on money from wife family etc rather than work.
Also I am pretty sure the local farming mob around here do not pay 300THB a day maybe they get around it by coercing family members

Yes, everyone is working for nothing, but you can’t get anyone to work.

Clean air conditioned rooms with the TV on or shovel dirt in the hot sun, that’s a tough one.

[kannot]

2 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

 

The automobile sector  data says otherwise.

1. The sector has been growing  significantly, and associated with that are the number of jobs. Thailand  went from 483,000 jobs in 2010 to 700,000 jobs in 2016, and is still growing.

 

2. There are a significant number of skilled workers, and that too is growing. Thailand has a national education and training strategy to train labour for the industry. Despite that, a large portion of the sector's labour is unskilled  and not "automated'. The unskilled labour do the mundane tasks of cleaning, moving stock, preparing and shipping  parts & finished products, and other general duties such as landscaping, cafeteria staffing, guards etc.

 

The Thailand BOI provides this interesting item;

With 29 universities and other institutes which provide automotive and mechanical engineering programs, it is forecasted that, in 2021, 61% of all workforces in Thai automotive industry are high-skilled labor with high vocational diploma or above, 27% with bachelor’s in engineering degree and 5% with master’s degree or above. Many auto assemblers in Thailand, i.e., Isuzu, Toyota and Honda, have their own employee training programs which help improve their competitiveness and efficiency.

 

3. Note the last sentence above, which explains alot. Training. The employers invest in their workers. Retention is high in the industry because the pay is relatively good and their are benefits.

 

In consideration of the above, your outright dismissal of the others' comments is not  supported by the  industry data..

 

In respect to the OP, the reality is that the current pay and working conditions are not sufficient to attract and to retain good labour. Thailand has near full employment and it does have a labour shortage. In the capitalist system, and free markets, labour is an input, much as fertilizer or water is. If the input is in short supply, then the cost of the input usually increases. 

In plain language, the pay and working conditions need to  be modified. Even though the OP believes that they are adequate, the results demonstrate that they are not attracting quality staff.  Thailand is not North Korea where the peasants can be compelled to work on the farm.

 

 

suggest a  salary  for a 5  day  week  with  accommodation, free  motorbike, electric. water.........for  this type of  work?? hours 7-12 then 2 till 5.

This includes  full training all power  tools inc hedge  cutter, leaf  blower ( no brooms  used here) weed  whacker except we rarely  use it as dont have massive weeds.

Also includes  gloves  boots  hats face  masks  etc etc

You mention "unskilled  labour" which is what we have they are  not working in a  skilled  job and it does not require a  "skilled" salary.

Its  not rocket science for them.

We even have taken them to hospital when they have been ill and paid for the bag full of smarties they  issue  them.

 

Edited August 26, 2018 by kannot

[moontang]

I went out with a former factory worker for a while.  She worked at a Sharp air-con factory.  They would work hard to make their quota, so they could veg for the rest of the shift.  As long as everything was ready for the train.  Another former has a son working for Toyota..very prestigious...and was tested in....his head is screwed on right...from Isaan, no less.