BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[OJAS]

19 minutes ago, davehowden said:

I see the "Affirmation of Marital Status" booking slots are going fast !!

 

https://www.consular-appointments.service.gov.uk/fco/#!/british-embassy-bangkok/oaths-affirmations-and-affidavits-/slot_picker

And rumour has it that these might be next for the Embassy chop.....????

[Thaidream]

There is no change at Thai Immigration.  As the weeks move on- I expect more and more Immigration offices will start , at the least, spot checking those who have the letters for added  documentation.

 

For whatever Nationality- everyone who receives a government pension or private pension has either tax forms or letters and statements from the issuer of the monies. In addition- the monies are deposited into a bank.  There are bank statements showing income in and money out which can be easily matched with the original letters. For those like myself- there are the original statements;  the bank statements and the ATM receipts from Thailand. Others can show deposits into Thai Bank Accounts.  There are so many ways to prove income if necessary.

 

There will always be a small percentage who will cheat and lie and even forge documents but the majority will be honest and I have to believe the authorities will be reasonable.

[fforest1]

17 minutes ago, OJAS said:

And rumour has it that these might be next for the Embassy chop.....????

You can laugh but they have been slowly slowly working up the visa food chain..

It all started with the crackdown on the 30 day back to back border visa runners about 2010-2011......The 30 day visa runners were the lowest of the low....Then it was on to tourist visas then ED visas then work visa and on and on...

Edited October 11, 2018 by fforest1

[CharlieH]

Off topic Posts removed.

 

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[mfd101]

1 hour ago, ukrules said:

I can't think of a single scenario where a declaration like this needs to be signed and witnessed for a UK citizen.

 

For legal documents you can have a lawyer witness and countersign a signature like a will or something.

Sure, but where's the lawyer? In Thailand or in Britain? If in Thailand, does the British legal system recognize a Thai lawyer as a nominated person to witness a signature? If not, are there British lawyers in Thailand who can do it? Personally I should have thought the obvious place to look would be the British Embassy but apparently that's a silly idea ...

[billd766]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

Same here, although I have started to pave the way towards seeking my next extension of stay on the basis of marriage/400k in the bank (instead of retirement/65k monthly income), in case the worst does come to the worst.

Me too.

[OJAS]

2 hours ago, ukrules said:

I can't think of a single scenario where a declaration like this needs to be signed and witnessed for a UK citizen.

I can: how about State Pension life certificates as described in my post at #1191?

[Ned]

And you don't expect any resistance from Immigration switching from the retirement to marriage option?

Think again.

[galt67]

1 hour ago, fforest1 said:

You can laugh but they have been slowly slowly working up the visa food chain..

It all started with the crackdown on the 30 day back to back border visa runners about 2010-2011......The 30 day visa runners were the lowest of the low....Then it was on to tourist visas then ED visas then work visa and on and on...

4

Agreed.

Thailand is a MUCH wealthier country than only a decade ago.

 

And, therefore, the 'need' for foreign, long-staying, expats is MUCH less.

 

In sum, I expect the visa reg, tightening, to ONLY continue.

 

 

 

 

[pontious]

I assume Thai immigration spoke to all Embassy's saying they require verification. The BE has said they cannot. The Oz, Canadian, and others say it is business as usual. USA is looking into it.

If Thai immigration insist on verification then surely the stat / declarations from those Embassy's who say business as usual will be worthless will they not.?

[Thaidream]

12 minutes ago, Ned said:

And you don't expect any resistance from Immigration switching from the retirement to marriage option?

Think again.

No resistance- I have done it a few times before- However- they encourage the retirement method because it is  a simple process- and that is why I expect them to continue to accept income letters if the Embassy will give them or other documentation provided by the applicant.

[whitemouse]

4 hours ago, JimGant said:

 

 

But this is where Thai Immigration is finally saying 'enough is enough' of allowing farong keynoks, with false income statements, however obtained, from clogging up civilized venues -- and unpaid for hospital beds. If the creep with the income statement has a lewd tattoo on his cheek, and an exposed navel piercing, by golly, Thai Immigration please thoroughly vet his proof of income. And, by some reports, this seems to be where we're heading.

What the F was that you just typed up?

 

Foreigners are creeps to you? People with tattoos should be scrutinized more than others? Why? Because you don't like them, I suppose.

 

I live in Pattaya, area with possibly largest number of retired  expats per capita  in Thailand. And you know what, I don't see homeless foreigners. I don't see foreigners being beggars. I just see large expat community of mainly people of retirement age, doing  very  nicely. 

I have never seen retired foreigners posing a burden on Thai society. Opposite, all these retirees leave their income in Thai economy. 

 

 

And to you we are creeps? 

 

I honestly would like to know where people like you come from, and what happened to you, to make you what you are today.

Luckily people like you are tiny minority in Thailand, luckily found only on web boards. Most expats show basic respect to each other. Imagine if we were all anything like you! I have never met anyone like you in person. Your hatred is frightening!

 

I wish British retirees all the best, I consider  man receiving 50.000 baht each month no less of a man, than someone who happens to receive 64.000. 

 

The worst kind are  people who take joy in other people's misery, but I suspect they themselves are extremely, crushingly unhappy, I can only imagine the suffering they experience getting through the day. This amount of hatred towards fellow men can't be easy to carry.

 

 

[Jip99]

2 hours ago, Spidey said:

The British Embassy did more than most other embassys to verify income, so why has no other embassy been affected by this? They have publicly lied twice over this issue. I believe that the "verification vs certification" issue is a smokescreen, to hide the real motive which is cost cutting. Move to smaller accommodation, cut down on staff salaries and office accommodation by cutting a net zero service. An accountants dream.

 

 

£52 multiplied a few thousand times vs low level clerical wages is a great argument against cost-cutting.

 

I own a crematorium and I could cut costs by stopping cremations.

 

 

It would make a bl00dy great hole in the  revenue line though ...????

 

 

The acid test may be whether other embassies follow suit...

Edited October 11, 2018 by Jip99

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

£52 multiplied a few thousand times vs low level clerical wages is a great argument against cost-cutting.

 

I own a crematorium and I could cut costs by stopping cremations.

 

 

It would make a bl00dy great hole in the  revenue line though ...????

 

 

The acid test may be whether other embassies follow suit...

As I've already explained, for the BE producing income letters is zero sum. Are your cremations zero sum?

According to an accountant stopping the letters would not make any hole in the income stream.

 

Whether other embassys follow suit is the acid test as to whether the BE were BSing everyone about the meeting with Immigration earlier in the year.

[blackhorse]

As I've already explained, for the BE producing income letters is zero sum. Are your cremations zero sum?
According to an accountant stopping the letters would not make any hole in the income stream.
 
Whether other embassys follow suit is the acid test as to whether the BE were BSing everyone about the meeting with Immigration earlier in the year.

The USA and oz do zero work. Literally 5 second scan followed by rubber stamp.

How much work did the British embassy do? Sounds like a bit and maybe it was to time consuming

[ukrules]

6 minutes ago, Spidey said:

 

Whether other embassys follow suit is the acid test as to whether the BE were BSing everyone about the meeting with Immigration earlier in the year.

You already stated earlier that the British Embassy have publicly lied multiple times, now you're wondering if they were 'BSing' ?

 

Make up our mind will you, it's hard to keep up here ????

[Spidey]

Just now, blackhorse said:

The USA and oz do zero work. Literally 5 second scan followed by rubber stamp.

How much work did the British embassy do? Sounds like a bit and maybe it was to time consuming

Yes, more staff intensive, therefore cut the service and lose the staff. Also cuts down on requied office space which is a cost in an accountants eyes. Also office space will be at a premium in the new, smaller embassy.

 

It all makes sense......to an accountant.

[Spidey]

Just now, ukrules said:

You already stated earlier that the British Embassy have publicly lied multiple times, now you're wondering if they were 'BSing' ?

 

Make up our mind will you, it's hard to keep up here ????

I'm not wondering at all, I'd put money on it. If no other embassy follows suit, it will be proof positive that my assertions were correct.

[DJ54]

Two years ago when I first had to get the income notarized at US Embassy I took my iPad Incase asked to show actual proof and not 

just print outs. Not allowed to take anything but paper inside the building. 

[whitemouse]

3 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

So why is the Brit. Embassy the only one to make this decision?

 

Surely ALL embassies should have agreed that they were unable to verify the information provided, and therefore made the same announcement?

 

Good question! I somehow doubt that Embassy changed their police because of pressure from Thai authorities. 

 

If it really was result pressure from Thai government, then why only UK Embassy? Surely gov here would have pressured every Western embassy in similar fashion, and this would have leaked, we would have heard about it from other embassies. Somehow it's only UK Embassy. And not only are other embassies  not going along, to the contrary, NZ Embassy, just for example, issued statement that they have NO plans to change anything.

Did Thai government target UK only? Doesn't make sense! UK retirees are not "extra undesirable", so why target UK expats only?

 

I bet it's UK Foreign Office, or Embassy itself. Either way, we will probably never know for sure, but we now do know HOW much UK Embassy cares about Brits residing in Thailand.

If I was British, I'd be furious. All your lives, you, Brits, have been paying taxes that pay the salaries of these bureaucrats that now decided to F you. 

 

No one has ever said life must be fair, but this move by UK Embassy towards their own people is low. All you, Brits, it is you, who have paid all your lives, and are paying now the salaries of  these douch*bags, and this is how they return in kind! 

Unbelievable!

[Shoeless Joe]

Email sent to the H E British Ambassador, British Embassy, Bangkok and copied to the R H Jeremy Hunt, Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs. If there's a worthwhile response I'll post it here (although I'm not holding my breath) but my, it was good to vent!.

 

Regards,

 

Joe

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

His Excellency, Mr. Brian John Davison Esq

British Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary to Thailand

14 Wireless Rd, Khwaeng Lumphini,

Khet Pathum Wan,

Krung Thep Maha Nakhon 10330,

Bangkok

Thailand

11 October 2018

 

Dear Honourable Ambassador

Re: Cessation of Pension Letters – 01 January 2018

I am a UK citizen, living in retirement in Chiang Mai, Thailand where it is often not easy especially for ex-pats, when dealing with Thai bureaucracy (and especially the Thai immigration authorities).

That being said, I would be grateful if you could provide some answers to the following questions:

 

1: I'm curious to know why the British Embassy having discussed this very important subject in May 2018 didn't find it necessary to inform British Citizens living in Thailand IMMEDIATELY by any means necessary and available about the proposed change(s) to the "Pension Letter" process?

2: Notwithstanding, in an age where mass communication is so readily available the British Embassy decided to release the news only via Thaivisa forum (thank you, Jonathon Fairfield!) after nearly 5 months of deafening silence...why?

3: How did the British Embassy expect to communicate this information to those UK ex-pats who don’t access Thaivisa Forum?

4: I find it incredible to think why / how this important (possibly life-changing) decision be made without some prior level of consultation with those who will be affected by the outcome. Why was that?

5: Why is the decision-making process within the British Embassy, Bangkok not transparent?

6: Is the Honourable British Ambassador available for an open forum for British Subjects to voice their opinions?

7: In the light of the above, would it not be fair and reasonable for the British Embassy to revoke, or at least cancel their decision until meaningful consultation(s) have taken place?

It’s my opinion that at the very least, the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (Mr Jeremy Hunt) at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office should censure and discipline the staff and officials at the British Embassy, Bangkok for their high-handed attitude and be reminded that they work for us, not the other way round.

Finally, the British Embassy officials and staff should also be held accountable for causing an untold (and possibly unnecessary) amount of distress, stress and anguish to many ex-pat UK citizens in Thailand.

I look forward with interest to your response.

Yours sincerely,

 

NB: Letter copied via email to the Right Honourable Jeremy Hunt, Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs

 

[evadgib]

34 minutes ago, Shoeless Joe said:

Email sent to the H E British Ambassador, British Embassy, Bangkok and copied to the R H Jeremy Hunt, Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs. If there's a worthwhile response I'll post it here (although I'm not holding my breath) but my, it was good to vent!.

 

Regards,

 

Joe

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

His Excellency, Mr. Brian John Davison Esq

 

British Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary to Thailand

 

14 Wireless Rd, Khwaeng Lumphini,

 

Khet Pathum Wan,

 

Krung Thep Maha Nakhon 10330,

 

Bangkok

 

Thailand

 

 

11 October 2018

 

Dear Honourable Ambassador

 

 

 

Re: Cessation of Pension Letters – 01 January 2018

 

I am a UK citizen, living in retirement in Chiang Mai, Thailand where it is often not easy especially for ex-pats, when dealing with Thai bureaucracy (and especially the Thai immigration authorities).

 

 

 

That being said, I would be grateful if you could provide some answers to the following questions:

 

 

 

1: I'm curious to know why the British Embassy having discussed this very important subject in May 2018 didn't find it necessary to inform British Citizens living in Thailand IMMEDIATELY by any means necessary and available about the proposed change(s) to the "Pension Letter" process?

 

2: Notwithstanding, in an age where mass communication is so readily available the British Embassy decided to release the news only via Thaivisa forum (thank you, Jonathon Fairfield!) after nearly 5 months of deafening silence...why?

 

3: How did the British Embassy expect to communicate this information to those UK ex-pats who don’t access Thaivisa Forum?

 

4: I find it incredible to think why / how this important (possibly life-changing) decision be made without some prior level of consultation with those who will be affected by the outcome. Why was that?

 

5: Why is the decision-making process within the British Embassy, Bangkok not transparent?

 

6: Is the Honourable British Ambassador available for an open forum for British Subjects to voice their opinions?

 

7: In the light of the above, would it not be fair and reasonable for the British Embassy to revoke, or at least cancel their decision until meaningful consultation(s) have taken place?

 

It’s my opinion that at the very least, the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (Mr Jeremy Hunt) at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office should censure and discipline the staff and officials at the British Embassy, Bangkok for their high-handed attitude and be reminded that they work for us, not the other way round.

 

Finally, the British Embassy officials and staff should also be held accountable for causing an untold (and possibly unnecessary) amount of distress, stress and anguish to many ex-pat UK citizens in Thailand.

 

I look forward with interest to your response.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

NB: Letter copied via email to the Right Honourable Jeremy Hunt, Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs

 

 

I dont really know where to start, but lets keep this simple by pointing out that the shorter the letter the greater the chance that you'll score a bullseye (& i'll pretend I didn't notice your 01 January 2019!)

Edited October 11, 2018 by evadgib

[brewsterbudgen]

Email sent to the H E British Ambassador, British Embassy, Bangkok and copied to the R H Jeremy Hunt, Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs. If there's a worthwhile response I'll post it here (although I'm not holding my breath) but my, it was good to vent!.
 
Regards,
 
Joe
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
His Excellency, Mr. Brian John Davison Esq

British Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary to Thailand

14 Wireless Rd, Khwaeng Lumphini,

Khet Pathum Wan,

Krung Thep Maha Nakhon 10330,

Bangkok

Thailand


11 October 2018
 
Dear Honourable Ambassador



Re: Cessation of Pension Letters – 01 January 2018
I am a UK citizen, living in retirement in Chiang Mai, Thailand where it is often not easy especially for ex-pats, when dealing with Thai bureaucracy (and especially the Thai immigration authorities).



That being said, I would be grateful if you could provide some answers to the following questions:

 
1: I'm curious to know why the British Embassy having discussed this very important subject in May 2018 didn't find it necessary to inform British Citizens living in Thailand IMMEDIATELY by any means necessary and available about the proposed change(s) to the "Pension Letter" process?

2: Notwithstanding, in an age where mass communication is so readily available the British Embassy decided to release the news only via Thaivisa forum (thank you, Jonathon Fairfield!) after nearly 5 months of deafening silence...why?

3: How did the British Embassy expect to communicate this information to those UK ex-pats who don’t access Thaivisa Forum?

4: I find it incredible to think why / how this important (possibly life-changing) decision be made without some prior level of consultation with those who will be affected by the outcome. Why was that?

5: Why is the decision-making process within the British Embassy, Bangkok not transparent?

6: Is the Honourable British Ambassador available for an open forum for British Subjects to voice their opinions?

7: In the light of the above, would it not be fair and reasonable for the British Embassy to revoke, or at least cancel their decision until meaningful consultation(s) have taken place?

It’s my opinion that at the very least, the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (Mr Jeremy Hunt) at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office should censure and discipline the staff and officials at the British Embassy, Bangkok for their high-handed attitude and be reminded that they work for us, not the other way round.

Finally, the British Embassy officials and staff should also be held accountable for causing an untold (and possibly unnecessary) amount of distress, stress and anguish to many ex-pat UK citizens in Thailand.

I look forward with interest to your response.

Yours sincerely,
 


NB: Letter copied via email to the Right Honourable Jeremy Hunt, Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs
 

To be fair, they did send an email to those expats registered with gov.uk/Thailand (on Monday) informing them that the letters were being stopped.



Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[dabhand]

5 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

To be fair, they did send an email to those expats registered with gov.uk/Thailand (on Monday) informing them that the letters were being stopped.



Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Except, there was a report on a Pattaya Expat forum (a Robert Plant song comes to mind!) dated 20th September that indicated that the Austrian Consul had mentioned to the poster that the BE was no longer providing Income confirmation letters.

So, it would appear this was common knowledge amongst some on the diplomatic circuit sometime before their concerned citizens were officially informed of this important change.

Seems the BE should have some explaining to do, but, of course, accountability is not in their lexicon.

[Peterw42]

57 minutes ago, Shoeless Joe said:

Email sent to the H E British Ambassador, British Embassy, Bangkok and copied to the R H Jeremy Hunt, Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs. If there's a worthwhile response I'll post it here (although I'm not holding my breath) but my, it was good to vent!.

 

Regards,

 

Joe

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

His Excellency, Mr. Brian John Davison Esq

 

British Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary to Thailand

 

14 Wireless Rd, Khwaeng Lumphini,

 

Khet Pathum Wan,

 

Krung Thep Maha Nakhon 10330,

 

Bangkok

 

Thailand

 

 

11 October 2018

 

Dear Honourable Ambassador

 

 

 

Re: Cessation of Pension Letters – 01 January 2018

 

I am a UK citizen, living in retirement in Chiang Mai, Thailand where it is often not easy especially for ex-pats, when dealing with Thai bureaucracy (and especially the Thai immigration authorities).

 

 

 

That being said, I would be grateful if you could provide some answers to the following questions:

 

 

 

1: I'm curious to know why the British Embassy having discussed this very important subject in May 2018 didn't find it necessary to inform British Citizens living in Thailand IMMEDIATELY by any means necessary and available about the proposed change(s) to the "Pension Letter" process?

 

2: Notwithstanding, in an age where mass communication is so readily available the British Embassy decided to release the news only via Thaivisa forum (thank you, Jonathon Fairfield!) after nearly 5 months of deafening silence...why?

 

3: How did the British Embassy expect to communicate this information to those UK ex-pats who don’t access Thaivisa Forum?

 

4: I find it incredible to think why / how this important (possibly life-changing) decision be made without some prior level of consultation with those who will be affected by the outcome. Why was that?

 

5: Why is the decision-making process within the British Embassy, Bangkok not transparent?

 

6: Is the Honourable British Ambassador available for an open forum for British Subjects to voice their opinions?

 

7: In the light of the above, would it not be fair and reasonable for the British Embassy to revoke, or at least cancel their decision until meaningful consultation(s) have taken place?

 

It’s my opinion that at the very least, the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (Mr Jeremy Hunt) at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office should censure and discipline the staff and officials at the British Embassy, Bangkok for their high-handed attitude and be reminded that they work for us, not the other way round.

 

Finally, the British Embassy officials and staff should also be held accountable for causing an untold (and possibly unnecessary) amount of distress, stress and anguish to many ex-pat UK citizens in Thailand.

 

I look forward with interest to your response.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

NB: Letter copied via email to the Right Honourable Jeremy Hunt, Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs

 

 

I would change point 2 as I dont think it was a release only to Thaivisa, thats how most of us found out but not an official media release to only Thaivisa. Thaivisa probably picked it up off their website or subscribe to updates etc.. 

Edited October 11, 2018 by Peterw42

[evadgib]

25 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

I would change point 2 as I dont think it was a release only to Thaivisa, thats how most of us found out but not an official media release to only Thaivisa. Thaivisa probably picked it up off their website . 

Crediting this website as a reliable source will induce fits of laughter and reduce the urgency in which they might reply. From where they're standing its akin to relying upon RTs wild fabrications re the Scripals ????

Edited October 11, 2018 by evadgib

[brewsterbudgen]

I would change point 2 as I dont think it was a release only to Thaivisa, thats how most of us found out but not an official media release to only Thaivisa. Thaivisa probably picked it up off their website or subscribe to updates etc.. 

I think most people found out because they are on the gov.uk/Thailand email list. I regularly receive emails from them advising me what the Embassy is doing. The email on Monday had slightly more impact than the usual bland updates.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[anon537687643]

The Ambassador twitter handle is @brijdavidson


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[flipside555]

17 minutes ago, markaoffy said:

The Ambassador twitter handle is @brijdavidson

Twitter bomb!! Somebody suggested, that we should get together and organize a protest outside of the embassy. We should get together and arrange a period of 3 hours when the ambassador receives a non-stop stream of twitter messages asking him for clarification.

[blackhorse]

Twitter bomb!! Somebody suggested, that we should get together and organize a protest outside of the embassy. We should get together and arrange a period of 3 hours when the ambassador receives a non-stop stream of twitter messages asking him for clarification.

That may land you in jail under the current government