BREAKING NEWS British Embassy statement on income letters: Officials knew about problems in May and say that US nationals will also be affected

[chudless]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Its a problem for those wanting or needing to use an INCOME method and you would know that if you bothered to follow this issue at the most elementary level. 

Clearly I have as it shows those who can barely afford to live here with no cash reserves are scared sh*tless. No sympathy at all. 

[eggers]

Why doesn't British Embassy do what Australian Embassy does?

The applicant is required to obtain a letter of confirmation of income in their own country from pension fund, accountant, etc & that it's equal to or greater than equiv. 65,000bht p/m.

The applicant prepares a Statutory Declaration referring to the letter & confirming contents, i.e. income, source, etc.

The applicant signs Stat Dec in presence of & witnessed by an Embassy Staff member; they are just witnessing the signature of the citizen/ applicant, not the Stat Dec content!!

Have used that for past 7 years without an issue!! 

[thailand49]

55 minutes ago, darksidedog said:

If they have known about it since May, why are they only telling us about it now? Having to move chunks of money from the UK to Thailand , to sit in a local account, at a time when the exchange rate is particularly poor so as to suddenly have money in place, is not funny. The Embassy seems to be finding it harder and harder to provide the services it has been able to do previously. It is close to the point where it is pointless them being there at all.

I agree, and I'm not a Brit, but from what I'm reading and know a number of Brits and it seems to me the government has been sticking it up the ass of Brit expats here for sometime blaming their economic problems on those who made the country? 

Aside from the two countries mentioned and haven't heard a thing from the U.S. regarding this issue Brit embassy has been reducing their services so what is their job except to spend the government money on themselves.

It doesn't seem other Embassy are having problems doing the verification or not! If I was representing the Embassy as I know Thailand if Big Joke asked I would respond yes doing the best we can, end of the story why get all Anal retentive. They can't even fix a road you actually think they are going to come in and do an actual audit? 

Whether it affects me or not I suggest Brits get together to set up a date and get signs and march outside the Brit Embassy I be sure to join you guys. 

[fforest1]

27 minutes ago, SkyNets said:

Aww that sucked, I’m a ways off from retiring but understand the panic, wait until they also require you guys to have proof of a 40,000baht plus health care plan every year.

 

You mean a piece of paper that says you have heath insurance... 

[GruenJD]

I have seen a number of comment posts that seem to think that this mess is all the fault of the British Embassy.  But not exactly. Back in May of this year, Thai Immigration met with representatives of several Foreign Embassies in Bkk. Thai Immigration officials insisted that the Foreign Embassies verify the accuracy of the financial information in the Embassy Income Letter / Sworn Income Affidavit / Statutory Declaration., etc.  This was not a new rule, but as often is the case - it was just not enforced. They had just begun to insist on complying with an old never before enforced rule. 

 

For at least 10-12 years or longer the Foreign Embassies have been proccessing these documents that were to be used in processing "retirement" and "marriage" Extensions of Stay for Expats. But they were in no way verifying the accuracy of the financial content of the submissions Even though the British Embassy did require bank or pension documents, etc. to be presented. However, these documents were never really examined more than in a cursory manner.  At the American Embassy no documents in evidence were never required - ever!

Bottomline to this Thai Immigration Officials had to have known all these years that no validation or verification was being done.  To pretend otherwise is balderdash. Foreign Embassies do not routinely verify, validate or investigate documents - especially repetitive documents as these financial submissions. Most times only the ID of the Signatory is checked and the Expat swears the document is correct and true (at least at the American Embassy - I know first hand).

Embassies do not have an investigative element to verify the content of hundreds and thousands of documents each year.  To do so would be a big burden. 

Thai Immigration instigated this change in rule enforcement.  The Embassies are saying that they cannot be responsible for verification (for reasons stated above) AND had never really been doing anything but stamping documents before with a Notary Stamp to verify ID and Statement of the Signatory.

[ginjag]

1 hour ago, SkyNets said:

So just get a print out from your Thai bank showing your pension payments. Whats the problem, unless you have been lying.....

What about my bank statement, from the Uk showing the direct debit paid into the account of my pension that should be proof enough surely.     50+ quid for a paper from the embassy was a rip off.  That presented with the Thai bank balance.   is that what they want......I got my Embassy paper to re-new my retirement visa in August.....why didn't they know then------I ought to get my 50+ quid back.  DOH

[Jono136]

Re transfer fees - you can use keycurrency.co.uk for a (negotiable) margin on rate and no fees if you want a monthly transfer. 

 

Re monthly pension transfers - does anyone know whether these are considered "income" for Revenue Dept purposes?

 

Re original post - how can the British Embassy attest with integrity to something it cannot verify? How could Immigration place any reliance on such a document with integrity? The past practice brings discredit to both parties. Claiming it's mere bureaucracy is to say that rules don't matter; we like them when they protect us!

[ginjag]

18 minutes ago, Jeffrey346 said:

You think so??  If he did look after us there would not be a 300% import tax on US cars..

Pensions are life blood  a US car is an option.   (  compare the price of a Mini here to one bought in the UK)  you sound like a Hillary lover.

[Jeffrey346]

1 minute ago, ginjag said:

Pensions are life blood  a US car is an option.   (  compare the price of a Mini here to one bought in the UK)  you sound like a Hillary lover.

Never was will never be a Hillarly fan.. Just stating facts..

[rayw]

49 minutes ago, kannot said:

https://www.thai-elite.com/  20 years

 1  million  would  keep most of the ole dodderers  here until they expire I do the 400k in a  bank  account married to Thai maybe more weddings in order and then a  clampdown on those next.

I dont like anyone snooping  into where my  money comes from and if they start that too  much Ill switch to the THai Visa  Elite 20 year as at 1000000 its a   damn good  deal.

Folks  living here and who cant find a  million really should do some more  planning, its  just not that much anymore, bet the original Elites are having a laugh anyway.

Program gets  cancelled you get a partial refund.

Lesser  years available  5yrs 500k, no so much a bargain but if  you have a Wife or  just want to stay it aint so bad.

You are very privileged to have such amounts of free money.  I personally have enough UK based annual income to be retired here in Thailand, but no way can I find a spare 800K Baht lying around to simply leave in a Thai Bank Account, as indeed most the friends I have legally here on retirement visas cannot do either without selling off something that they really should not and do not want to sell.  I personally have not been transferring very much at all into my Thai bank account as I use my UK Debit/Credit cards to buy my needs and pay my bills here, which then debits my UK bank account in sterling or a credit card account which can then be paid off from a UK bank account interest free in sterling each month.  Very simple way to make life easy to manage and oprganise.  Either way it is still spending our UK pension money here in Thailand where we live and so still benefits the Thai economy very positively just the same transferrign the money straight into a Thia Bank account. 

 

So this now only option VISA system, without use of an Embassy income confirmation letter, is going to make it very hard to easily comply for so many old retired folk and others here, who really do not want or need such stress.  Sure I can change to a Spouse VISA instead, but I would rather not have to do that and go through all the rigmarol like I had to originally to get my first retirement visa so many years ago.  I assure you when you get into your 70s you really do not need or want to cope with all this and neither should a caring society allow this to happen simply due to UK Government laziness and abdication of their responibilities to their citizens.

 

So I am deeply disgusted at the British Embassy's decision which is abolutely abdicating their responsibilities and duties to us UK nationals.  Same with the US embassy too, who I think rather stupidly did not even ask for verifiation documents from it's US nationals, so clearly of course all must be 100% honest hmm ???? unlike the Brits hmm LOL   If the Dutch, Canadian and New Zealand Embassies can still rightfully continue with this long estgablished scheme, then why not the British and US ??  It is disgraceful and typical of bloody right wing led Governments.  IMHO bring on Corbyn ASAP in the UK, a real principled man for the people, for the many not the few.  I am pretty sure he would not have authorised this unwelcomed and disgusting abdication of duty to UK nationals and pensioners trying to live their final years in some dignity, stressfree ease and comfort in a warm climate.

 

So I seriously ask the British Embassy to reconsider this highly unwelcomed decision that will cause much hardship and problems for thousands and thousands of Ex Pats here in Thailand, many of them old and often frail.  Doubtless in other countries across the World too wherever proof of income is also needed for long stay VISAs. 

 

I can seriously understand the Thai Immigration's fair and sensible retirement and spouse visa financioal requirements, as that is pure common sense and not at all unreasonable I am sure we all must agree.  I am truly just ashamed of being a Brit these days with such an uncaring crap UK bloody Tory rogue Government, who are clearly for the few not the many !!! As I say bring on Corbyn in the UK ASAP, at the very least it can not be any worse than what we have now !!

[Jip99]

8 minutes ago, ginjag said:

What about my bank statement, from the Uk showing the direct debit paid into the account of my pension that should be proof enough surely.     50+ quid for a paper from the embassy was a rip off.  That presented with the Thai bank balance.   is that what they want......I got my Embassy paper to re-new my retirement visa in August.....why didn't they know then------I ought to get my 50+ quid back.  DOH

 

 

You really think Thai Immigration will accept an unfamiliar piece of paper purporting to be a bank statement ?

 

It is Thai Immigration who insisted on the embassy “verifying” income..... which they are not prepared to do.

[asiaexpat]

It is interesting that so many on TV have commented on the cheating Americans fabricating income on the affidavits witnessed by the consulate but now believe the UK Embassy's statement as to US Embassy letters is true. I seriously doubt the US Embassy consulate will stop issuing such affidavits as it is a designated duty to affirm affidavit signatures. This document is not and has never been a certification of income but only a notary of the signature on the affidavit. 

[zaphod reborn]

The new policy has nothing to do with verification of income/pensions originating in the UK.  It has everything to do with British civil servants not wanting any contact with the public.  That's why they outsourced most of their services to VFS.  Don't expect the US embassy to follow suit.  The Brits are acting alone, which is what they want - no public contact.

[Megasin1]

The British embassy are a bunch of useless retarded numpties, not that it has anything particular to do with this thread, it's just that generally they are.

[thailand49]

13 minutes ago, chudless said:

Clearly I have as it shows those who can barely afford to live here with no cash reserves are scared sh*tless. No sympathy at all. 

I think you are being a bit hard.  I'm not a Brit but the response from their Embassy is like saying they have been lying for their citizens which I don't believe is the case. As far as I'm concerned I'm not going to judge someone who scrapes up the funds to stay here what should be taken into consideration is whether the expat is a burden or breaking the law of Thailand. I know a number of Brits who scrape by are good people and lived here for 10 to 20 years you are entitled to your opinion by no sympathy at all sorry I can't agree.  

It would be interesting to know what are actual numbers of expat living here who have gone through the process that is a burden or problem to Thailand that the issue even had to be brought up. I think any Embassy particularly the British should have spoken up for their people instead they seem to have buckle and decide to kiss ass instead of standing up!

[leither69]

1 hour ago, SkyNets said:

So just get a print out from your Thai bank showing your pension payments. Whats the problem, unless you have been lying.....

No good if it gets paid in the UK!!

[edwardflory]

 Keep the lump sums nice and safe in your home country's bank and send you r self 65.000 every month

 

too expensive on transfer fees

 

I have found that if I go INSIDE my bank, use my US Debit Card to transfer straight into my Thai Bank Account, I get a decent rate - within +/- $5.00USD of the XE published rate, all expenses included.

[Runamile]

My sense of the situation is to point a finger at the British Embassy to the extent that the suggested solution isn't one at all for many people ie that monies have to be in a Thai bank account. If the British Embassy felt they could not verify to the level of forensic expertise required then in my mind the question is why not continue to offer the service, but outsourced to a contract-holder who do have the expertise, just as embassies of many nationalities have done for many years when faced with the inability to continue a service from internal embassy resources. I feel sure that British pensioners would have happily paid an enhanced rate for such a necessary service.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Runamile

[DPKANKAN]

36 minutes ago, crazykopite said:

$50 that’s nothing the Brit Embassy is over 3,000 baht plus postage and that was three years ago before I went onto the 800,000

No it is not. It is 2300 + 100 baht if you have it posted. I have done it for the last 3 years and go and collect it! The letter has a caveat in it anyway basically that exonerates them, merely confirming the information they have been provided with!!

[ukrules]

It sounds like the Thais went to the British Embassy demanding all sorts of proofs and guarantees and the embassy told them where to go.

 

I am almost certain that the Thais will backtrack on this change in requirements once the shit hits the fan.

 

Edited October 10, 2018 by ukrules

[fforest1]

30 minutes ago, chudless said:

Clearly I have as it shows those who can barely afford to live here with no cash reserves are scared sh*tless. No sympathy at all. 

Smug people are so delightful...

[blackhorse]

Well I assumed the US would follow and others will announce the change as well.
 
No one using that method will sleep tonight & no amount of complaining will force the respective Embassy to do a thing as it's a Thai issue.
 
Oh sigh I do feel for the guys using the monthly income method but I think it's time to seriously consider an exit.

Yeah especially the older guys now having to do the border run shuffle until one day they are denied reentry by some dude who is having a bad day. I couldn't and wouldn't do it

Must be thousands considering repatriation right now

[WorriedNoodle]

24 minutes ago, eggers said:

Why doesn't British Embassy do what Australian Embassy does?

The applicant is required to obtain a letter of confirmation of income in their own country from pension fund, accountant, etc & that it's equal to or greater than equiv. 65,000bht p/m.

The applicant prepares a Statutory Declaration referring to the letter & confirming contents, i.e. income, source, etc.

The applicant signs Stat Dec in presence of & witnessed by an Embassy Staff member; they are just witnessing the signature of the citizen/ applicant, not the Stat Dec content!!

Have used that for past 7 years without an issue!! 

Isn't this in essence much like the British Embassy does until now (I don't use service so unsure), and now the embassy says Thai Imm needs the embassy to verify the pension is true. With Aussie stat dec how is the Thai Imm requirement for proof of truth of the income letter satisfied (if there is such a requirement and the Brit Embassy isn't just dumping the service for other reasons!)?

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, ukrules said:

It sounds like the Thais went to the British Embassy demanding all sorts of proofs and guarantees and the embassy told them where to go.

 

 

While telling their own nationals where to go at the same time.

The current U.S. response if it does stand sounds the much more reasonable one. 

Issue the REQUIRED letters and say no guarantees, your move Thailand. 

Edited October 10, 2018 by Jingthing

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, SkyNets said:

So just get a print out from your Thai bank showing your pension payments. Whats the problem, unless you have been lying.....

 

You seem to missing the point that lots of folks don't have their pension payments deposited into Thai banks for a variety of reasons, and instead have them put into their home country accounts.

 

Lots of entities won't do direct deposits into foreign banks. And, even if the pensioner wants to do the transfer themselves, doing an international wire into Thailand every month just to satisfy Immigration is likely to cost hundreds of dollars in banks fees per year.

Edited October 10, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Formaleins]

44 minutes ago, crazykopite said:

$50 that’s nothing the Brit Embassy is over 3,000 baht plus postage and that was three years ago before I went onto the 800,000

Gin % Tonic isn't free you know.

[korkenzieher]

What is unacceptable in the B. Embassy action, is that if they knew from May, then they should have announced it with sufficient lead time so that those who need to change things would have time to do so.

 

Anyone applying after the cut-off date for embassy letters, doesn't have enough time to 'season' a deposit. There's a window from basically 12 December until 90 days after the original announcement -well into January, even if you act today - where it is not possible to cover yourself.

 

That, in my opinion is disgraceful from BE.

[Odysseus123]

4 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

Yeah especially the older guys now having to do the border run shuffle until one day they are denied reentry by some dude who is having a bad day. I couldn't and wouldn't do it

Must be thousands considering repatriation right now

Really?

How are the weeds 'midst the pumpkins?

Edited October 10, 2018 by Odysseus123

[blackhorse]

Isn't this in essence much like the British Embassy does until now (I don't use service so unsure), and now the embassy says Thai Imm needs the embassy to verify the pension is true. With Aussie stat dec how is the Thai Imm requirement for proof of truth of the income letter satisfied (if there is such a requirement and the Brit Embassy isn't just dumping the service for other reasons!)?

The oz embassy requires no confirmation letters from anyone
You state your income and sign the stat dec. Done deal

Next!

[AjarnMartin]

1 hour ago, smedly said:

too expensive on transfer fees

Hi Smedley, not if you use TransferWise... ????