UK govt petitioned to reinstate proof of income letters for British expats in Thailand

[prakhonchai nick]

31 minutes ago, Chicken George said:

Anyone now under sixty wont get their pension till they are over 67. Its all about making us stay not leave so as we spend the money in the UK.. I still believe thst soon to get the UK pension you will have to live in the UK. Its comming.

 

I think you are correct there George. Minimum 6 months in the UK or no state pension payable -only those in the system will continue to receive.  And doubtful the UK will give more than a couple of years notice.

[jasonslater]

I would also sign the petition, why the British Embassey has decided this is crazy and upsetting not just to me but many if not all the expats in Thailand, it is a requirement by the thai immigration that we have to supply proof of income letters as part of both marriage and retirement visas, no other embassey apart from the UK is doing this, this does provide the Consular and the British goverment with a income consider how much this letter cost. This stopping of income verification letters needs to be reversed, and reinstate "Prove of income Letters". ASAP. I think its disgusting that they should even consider this dropping this service it will make many want to leave Thailand.

[Moonlover]

52 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Thanks for the thought, but I see no point in this.

 

If I'm able to prove to the embassy that I have sufficient income, it ought to be just as easy to provide that same proof to Thai immigration.

 

Put simply, I can do it myself and save 52 pounds and I've long wondered why that hasn't always been possible.

 

52 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Except, historically and up to today, Thai Immigration could care less about any other "proof" you might be able to provide. They ONLY and ALWAYS wanted to see an Embassy Income letter. If you don't have that, at least until now, nothing else mattered.

I have made this point before, but I'll point it out again. This is what the embassy said in their follow up statement that they were withdrawing this service:

 

'British Nationals should show evidence of minimum funds for their visa type by showing a Thai bank statement and/or bank book. This is not a new requirement and has always been an option for foreigners renewing retirement and marriage visas in Thailand".

 

Do you have an explanation for that comment? I do keep in mind that we're talking about income, not capital lump sum.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Moonlover

[amse]

Why would your home country government care about you? You left and retired in Thailand, so most of your pension is being spent in Thailand not your home country. This is just another way of the UK officials turning their back on you and giving you zero support from the UK embassy here. 

I have experience just how unsupportive the US embassy is here, as they wanted to throw me out of Thailand early on over a minor infraction in my visa, even though Thai immigration said it was an easy fix, just to get a document paper from the US embassy, fill it out and have the problem fixed, which the US embassy tried to say I stole a copy of the document a high Thai officer gave me, to show to get one from US embassy. It cost me $30 in all and the US embassy dudes wouldn't apologize for being dead wrong.  

[fcgprg]

e-mail the foreign secretary [email protected]

it might make a difference if many e mail him direct.

[jasonslater]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Heavy sigh....

 

It has been pointed out time and time again that all (?) Embassies are in the same position re. verification - but only the brit. embassy has made the decision to stop issuing the REQUIRED proof of income letters.

 

Therefore, it IS the brit. embassies fault that they (alone...) have taken this unilateral decision to leave a number of their citizens here up shit creek!

 

It's quite possibly true that a few have fabricated documents - but I suspect only a tiny minority have done this, as it would be far easier to pay a dodgy agent to 'get round the rules' using the 'money in bank' route.

They should NOT STOP the "proof of income letters" every time I get one I have to show proof to get the letter, I agree why does our embassey want to cause more trouble for the citizens who live here. we all need to sign this petition ASAP. 

 

[IAMHERE]

I suspect the UK Government knows what most British citizens have and earn. 

[jasonslater]

2 minutes ago, fcgprg said:

e-mail the foreign secretary [email protected]

it might make a difference if many e mail him direct.

I will 

 

[prakhonchai nick]

Just now, fcgprg said:

e-mail the foreign secretary [email protected]

it might make a difference if many e mail him direct.

 

I'll say it again

Immigration want proof of income.

The British Embassy cannot provide PROOF.

 

 

[Runamile]

The really annoying thing about this is that neither British or Thai side are applying any genuine thought to the matter.   Here is a potential solution from each side: 1. The British embassy outsources the income consular letter procedure as they and other embassies have often done when they either can't cope with the volume of paperwork or don't have the technical competence. Many Brits would pay significant sums for this proper procedure 2. Why can't the Thais accept a global statement of income properly drawn up and attested by a qualified Thai accountant. Again, many Brits would happily pay significant sums for this.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Runamile

[jesimps]

3 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

It is about time that you Brits got off your ass and did something; your outrage has been palpable but your actions nil.

 

I would also organize an direct e-mail to your respective members of Parliament; it isn't hard to find their addresses in these modern days. I know for a fact that every letter sent to an MP is logged and (usually) responded to; your taxes pay for them, give them a kick!

 

If you are not happy, and there are several thousand of you (?), then a campaign via the Web is useful and doable. Put up or shut up.

 

Give' em hell, Brits

 

That's blx! Are you in personal contact with all the Brits on here to be able to make that statement? If not, then it's a ridiculous thing to say.

[prakhonchai nick]

2 minutes ago, jasonslater said:

They should NOT STOP the "proof of income letters" every time I get one I have to show proof to get the letter, I agree why does our embassey want to cause more trouble for the citizens who live here. we all need to sign this petition ASAP. 

 

You have to show documents showing you get £xxx pounds from  a, £xxxx from b , £xxx from c etc.  It may be fraud, but anyone can produce a document from an alleged fictitious company stating you receive such and such pension. The Embassy CANNOT check the authenticity of such information.  Therefore they are stopping the letters.

[RichardColeman]

 

1 hour ago, Luckysilk said:

And how would you feel if in your home country anyone could simply get on a plane and land in your country and live happily ever after spending a mere 65k a month or better yet 800k in a bank account ?

Pretty good actually. Most seem to come to the UK potless and get social housing and benefits   

[jesimps]

13 minutes ago, amse said:

Why would your home country government care about you? You left and retired in Thailand, so most of your pension is being spent in Thailand not your home country. This is just another way of the UK officials turning their back on you and giving you zero support from the UK embassy here. 

I have experience just how unsupportive the US embassy is here, as they wanted to throw me out of Thailand early on over a minor infraction in my visa, even though Thai immigration said it was an easy fix, just to get a document paper from the US embassy, fill it out and have the problem fixed, which the US embassy tried to say I stole a copy of the document a high Thai officer gave me, to show to get one from US embassy. It cost me $30 in all and the US embassy dudes wouldn't apologize for being dead wrong.  

I am still a citizen of the UK and pay full UK income tax, therefore expect a decent consular service in return.

[mackayae]

In September 2017 in an interview in "Expat Life in Thailand" published on Thaivisa the British ambassador Brian Davidson, 54, who took up the post in June 2016 said that the mission of the embassy could be summed up in three aims.

 

These were promoting a free and open society in Thailand, building stronger partnerships for mutual prosperity and, thirdly, "providing top notch consular and embassy services to all who avail of them". 

That's the problem. The first mission of the Embassy should be protecting and helping their citizens.

[Nurseynutcase]

3 hours ago, GeorgeCross said:

"We’re checking this petition

5 people have already supported Richard Brown’s petition.

We need to check it meets the petition standards before we publish it.

Please try again in a few days."

 

 

maybe should have delayed the OP until the petition is up and running. 

 

 

Justtt tried it also - and failed.

Hope that it gets the go-ahead.

Will be watching very closely

[natway09]

And we have just sold what's left of the Embassy.

Next withdraw the Ambassador, there you go job done.

On your own boys,,, talk to your British bank if they can still talk

[Chongalulu]

The point here is that in terms of proof of income the British embassy requires at least as much ,if not more proof than other embassies,some of which require only a written afadavit with no proof. So if Thai immigration are saying British embassy proof levels are insufficient then that must surely apply to EVERY other embassy? But there is no indication that that is what happened so it appears a unilateral decision by BE not to provide these any more.

 Immigration I believe ask and will continue to ask for these letters simply because their officers do not have tha capabilities to examine and assess the proof (even simple uk bank statements) you otherwise give the embassy. A letter is in a simple universal format that they understand requiring only a calculator.

 I therefore believe the fault lies with BE.

 

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, Luckysilk said:

Why should any Embassy get into this mess of verifying documents from multiple sources that could be fraudulent. 

Everyone can agree that no Embassy can ever completely  attest to 100% accuracy that  there is no fraud.  That is up to Thai Imm- Many different ways to prove income with several overlapping sources.

 

IMHO- the fallback position for any Embassy that is asked to verify income is to simply state what their Embassy letter does- give it to the applicant- and let Thai Imm decide if it is enough or they then want added info.

 

The BE throwing down the gauntlet to Thai Imm just won't work- other than make everyone angry.

[Scouse123]

3 hours ago, ozmeldo said:

Wait till the Thai government charges UK government aiding and abetting fraud. International incident. Farang

retiirees go to jail then deported. It could get nasty.

 

It's all about pushing foreigners out. Less moaners when a Hun Sen style government is established her in months to come

 

All the whingers don't care about intl diplomacy or integrity of the embassy. If they can't get THAT paper, they're done here so it's balls to walls boys...

 

Embassy aint gonna backtrack lol. You bet in true British fashion this has been well thought out and weighed accordingly

 

Wake up it's all about fraudsters so all of you quit acting like Snow White

 

 

Have you been drinking on an empty head?

[maddermax]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

richiejom

There is something more sinister at play here.  I have received my letter without problem for the last 8 years as I have provided the necessary evidence to them. I'm sure that if somebody turned up with insufficient evidence that they would be turned away. This means that it is not a credibility issue but one of shirking their responsibilities!

Please direct me to the richiejom petition.

[Thaidream]

Ever try and tell someone how to do their business?  It doesn't work.  This is all a real lack of communication and understanding.

 

The BE- should keep issuing the letters with disclaimer- give them to their applicants and let Thai Imm decide if they want to accept them as is or ask the applicants for added proof.

 

Good Lord- nothing is fool proof in the 21st Century- Money is still counter fitted; Passports can be faked and on and on. Do we stop all people from travelling or stop printing money?

 

If you are an Imm Officer- and you suspect forgery- do your job or send the documents to a Special Investigation Department who can provide added authentication.

[theoldgit]

3 minutes ago, maddermax said:

Please direct me to the richiejom petition.

The link is in the opening post of this thread, but it's not available for signing yet.

[Jip99]

3 minutes ago, maddermax said:

There is something more sinister at play here.  I have received my letter without problem for the last 8 years as I have provided the necessary evidence to them. I'm sure that if somebody turned up with insufficient evidence that they would be turned away. This means that it is not a credibility issue but one of shirking their responsibilities!

Please direct me to the richiejom petition.

 

 

Their due diligence has been minimal - they are only certifying that the applicant states that his income is XYZ.

 

I am aware of several cases where spurious supporting ‘evidence’ has been accepted without question. That makes the ‘certification’ about as valuable as the USA statutory declaration.

[atyclb]

really a shame after a lifetime of working and paying taxes that your government would stop this service.

[Scouse123]

3 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Everyone can agree that no Embassy can ever completely  attest to 100% accuracy that  there is no fraud.  That is up to Thai Imm- Many different ways to prove income with several overlapping sources.

 

IMHO- the fallback position for any Embassy that is asked to verify income is to simply state what their Embassy letter does- give it to the applicant- and let Thai Imm decide if it is enough or they then want added info.

 

The BE throwing down the gauntlet to Thai Imm just won't work- other than make everyone angry.

 

 

I have used the proof of income this two years as it was simple to do. I will just go back to the other method of 800K.

 

However, that is not my point of making comment here. I certainly recall that the Embassy well covered themselves in the letter they gave to British nationals for Thai immigration stating that the document was produced on evidence of funds supplied by the British citizen.

 

I myself included bank statements from various countries downloaded from accessing my accounts on the different banks' websites.

 

I will not complain as I feel it will be useless as I have had contacts with the British Embassy on many different matters and on many levels from the lowest to the highest. What I do think, and I hope to be wrong, the British Embassy will not reverse this for a few British nationals and will take the view, ' Don't rely on us, have the correct funds and/or documentation to satisfy Thai immigration '  and that will be it.

 

The ' old chestnut ' about ' How dare they ' and them working for the taxpaying British citizens won't work either. As far as they are concerned in Bangkok, they are here for trade deals, smooth relations and a presence in the Far East.

 

They are not interested in ' Brits in the shit '

[Nurseynutcase]

3 hours ago, Just1Voice said:

My thoughts are that the Embassies should provide them, but only to those who can provide actual proof of their income.  I can't speak for any Brits, but I know a couple of Americans who get the Income Verification from the U.S. Consulate here in Chiang Mai, who do not meet the financial requirements. And this is what Immigration wants to eliminate. If you're legal, no problem.  If you're not, your out of here, as it should be. 

 

I provide the British embassy with all of my annual P60's and the rental agreement on my house in the UK.  None of these are bogus - my NI(national Insurance) number is printed on each one of the forms.  I will not receive my State Pension until I am 66(2 years time).

 

I came to live in Thailand because it is cheaper than living in the UK.  The forms I provide are my actual income.  Yes I could transfer it all to a Thai bank account but from what I have read it is so difficult to get it back to the country of origin.

 

Also even with my high spending lifestyle I do not spend 65,000 baht a month on living expenses.

 

I will be OK until next November 2019 and then I will have to rethink my position here.

 

Thailand will lose out if I and many others like me decide to decamp and go to another country,

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

When contacted yesterday over claims made by the British embassy that the US authorities were also to follow suit in stopping the issuing of income letters the embassy advised Thaivisa to contact the US Embassy press office.

 

As of press time Thaivisa has yet to receive a reply from that office.

 

Has the U.S. Embassy gone into hiding on this topic?

 

Yesterday, member IssanJohn posted receiving 3 successive emails, all yesterday, from U.S. Citizens Services saying they had no changes planned re the income letters.

 

In the same day yesterday, separately, I received two different emails from the same ACS office that only said the income letters process was under review, and NOT making any comment or promise about no planned changes.

 

About this time yesterday, I sent ACS a third email asking them to reconcile the difference between the version they were emailing IssanJohn and the different version they were emailing me.  Now 24 hours later, no further response from ACS to my inquiry.

 

And apparently, based on the above OP, they're not responding to ThaiVisa either.

 

Good job ACS!!!!

 

PS - I also sent a couple tweets to the US Embassy BKK's official Twitter account over the past two days on the same subject, and no responses via Twitter either.  Same for a separate email sent to their Press Office's email address.

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[fcgprg]

44 minutes ago, fcgprg said:

e-mail the foreign secretary [email protected]

it might make a difference if many e mail him direct.

Apologies e-mail address missing j

should be [email protected]  

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

Therefore, it IS the brit. embassies fault that they (alone...) have taken this unilateral decision to leave a number of their citizens here up shit creek!

That is one point of view.

Another is that the Embassy could have continued the service and enforced verified proof. In that all documents in support of income be accompanied by a notarised copy of the bank statement indicating the income received.

 

There is nothing dodgy about my income but I have only ever sent photo copies of the pension providers letter which could have very easy been fake. 

Although it is a bit of inconvenience I would rather the Thai bank account option than enhanced proof requirements. We can only hope there is no new version that would be insisted on by immigration.

People should be careful of what they wish for.