USA income affidavit

[Wake Up]

I am a USA citizen. I am at CW getting extension of stay retirement. I just had a conference with a supervisor because I use the USA embassy affidavit for income. She told me next year I must have 800k in thai bank as she will not accept letter from USA embassy anymore because they don’t check documents to verify income. I said I heard about British but not USA. She said as of January 1, 2019 it applies to USA embassy also although they are accepting all income verification forms dated before January 1, 2019.  This is one experience from one supervisor so if it happens to others please report. I am dressed nice and I have plenty of money transferred into Thailand but have never kept 800k in the bank here for extension of stay purposes but will from now on. You also have to draw a map to your residence and fill out two more pieces of paper about where you live and what you are doing in Thailand. Having said that immigration officers are working very fast and efficiently as compared to previous CW visits. 

[AGareth2]

4 minutes ago, Wake Up said:

You also have to draw a map to your residence

do they accept Google maps?

[Esso49]

1 minute ago, AGareth2 said:

do they accept Google maps?

They do for an extension based on marriage.

[Wake Up]

I forgot to mention she also said if I transferred 65 K a month every month  to a thai bank account that she would accept that instead of the 800k in the Thai account. But no more accepted USA embassy verification letters dated after January 1, 2019. 

[phutoie2]

32 minutes ago, Wake Up said:

I forgot to mention she also said if I transferred 65 K a month every month  to a thai bank account that she would accept that instead of the 800k in the Thai account. But no more accepted USA embassy verification letters dated after January 1, 2019. 

achtung, Jingthing, standby. This just all gets better-

Edited October 24, 2018 by phutoie2

[sirineou]

9 minutes ago, Wake Up said:

I forgot to mention she also said if I transferred 65 K a month every month  to a thai bank account that she would accept that instead of the 800k in the Thai account. But no more accepted USA embassy verification letters dated after January 1, 2019. 

 I don't do extensions to stay yet . As I still work outside Thailand and exit the country often enough not to need them, But I Will probably be putting my papers in for retirement next spring and will have to content with the above , so I am following this thread with interest,

   It would be reasonable , and pretty easy, If the above is true. as most   retirees should be receiving Social security and or a pension as it will be the case for me, IMO if someone does not have a monthly income of 65 k one is not ready to retire. 

[Jingthing]

Will they still take COMBINATION based applications?

Do the funds really need to be transferred into Thailand MONTHY?

For example if you do two transfers during the year and they meet the needed total for an income based application, would that work? (65K x 12)

For a combination application for example an example would be transferring 500K into Thailand and showing the rest in a seasoned bank account (300K). 

The transferring every month is onerous (and expensive for many). For example for those that have income streams deposited into their outside Thailand bank accounts.

[Kadilo]

23 minutes ago, Wake Up said:

I forgot to mention she also said if I transferred 65 K a month every month  to a thai bank account that she would accept that instead of the 800k in the Thai account. But no more accepted USA embassy verification letters dated after January 1, 2019. 

65K a month left in your account untouched for 12 months that shows 800,000 at end of the year, 65K a month that you can use them top up with 3 months to go before renewal, or 65K a month you can use to live on?

[johnjohn2]

Reasonable and pretty easy to put the monthly money in the bank but no word on how to show where that money comes from. Does it need to be direct deposit into the Thai Bank? Can you withdraw from ATM and deposit in your Thai Bank account monthly, can you do paypal transfers, etc? Can you just take out the money every month and re deposit it the next month? Without any type of real guidance were all still clueless. I really wish something from Immigration would be put out.

 

[Jingthing]

Just now, Kadilo said:

65K a month left in your account untouched for 12 months that shows 800,000 at end of the year, 65K a month that you can use them top up with 3 months to go before renewal, or 65K a month you can use to live on?

He clearly meant the two methods (as least, not sure about combo) would remain EXACTLY the same except for the use of income letters.

 

Bank method

800K in Thai bank account seasoned for two months (first extension application) and three months subsequent

TOTALLY UNCHANGED

 

Income method

Instead of proving income via income letter the officer told this guy you'd need to transfer in at least 65K baht MONTHLY into Thailand, regardless of whether you actually need to SPEND that much. For that you wouldn't have any worries about showing any specific balance at the application. It would be all based on showing the INCOME flowing into Thailand. 

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, johnjohn2 said:

Reasonable and pretty easy to put the monthly money in the bank but no word on how to show where that money comes from. Does it need to be direct deposit into the Thai Bank? Can you withdraw from ATM and deposit in your Thai Bank account monthly, can you do paypal transfers, etc? Can you just take out the money every month and re deposit it the next month? Without any type of real guidance were all still clueless. I really wish something from Immigration would be put out.

 

I don't think it's reasonable for people that don't need to spend the entire 65K x 12 over the course of the year. Many of our fine and sexy RETIROGRANTS here only live in Thailand part of the year, or spend less than that especially if they own their housing. Also forcing people to import MONTHLY is a major pain in the ass! Why so rigid? It's the same number whether you transfer in 12 times or 1 time!

Also people should keep in mind if/when the embassy income letters go away and the only way to get income based applications approved is via FULL IMPORT of the claimed income (at least 65K monthly or combo if still available) that actually will represent in practice a rather MAJOR practical change and not a good one for our lovely RETIROGRANTS, etc.  How so? CURRENTLY, you prove your income via letter. There is NO requirement to import that claimed income into Thailand. With the new method, the result will indeed be a HARD REQUIREMENT to IMPORT the claimed funds. 

Edited October 24, 2018 by Jingthing

[sirineou]

6 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

65K a month left in your account untouched for 12 months that shows 800,000 at end of the year, 65K a month that you can use them top up with 3 months to go before renewal, or 65K a month you can use to live on?

of course we don't know yet,

but I don't think it will have to stay untouched. if I understood you post correctly, It simply would need to show an income stream.

4 minutes ago, johnjohn2 said:

Reasonable and pretty easy to put the monthly money in the bank but no word on how to show where that money comes from. Does it need to be direct deposit into the Thai Bank? Can you withdraw from ATM and deposit in your Thai Bank account monthly, can you do paypal transfers, etc? Can you just take out the money every month and re deposit it the next month? Without any type of real guidance were all still clueless. I really wish something from Immigration would be put out.

 

I think it would need to be from a verified source   because otherwise what's to stop someone from depositing  and withdrawing the same 65 K every month.

[wgdanson]

5 minutes ago, sirineou said:

because otherwise what's to stop someone from depositing  and withdrawing the same 65 K every month

As some people I know were doing exactly that with their UK bank 'income'. That is why the BE have said they cannot 'verify' the incomes, but the Thai IO want them to. 

[Thaidream]

There is no information related to any change on the US Embassy Website- everything the same as it has always been.

 

If Thai Imm will accept an income stream- 65K per month- one can simply take  65K per month out of a Thai ATM from a US bank and deposit it in a Thai Bank and use the money to live on and then the next month put another 65K in and  do the same. Back up info is Pension letters and US Bank statements showing direct deposit.

 

We need more info on all this from Thai Imm.  As we all know each IO has their own interpretation of the 'rules'.

[GeorgeCross]

10 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

As some people I know were doing exactly that with their UK bank 'income'. That is why the BE have said they cannot 'verify' the incomes, but the Thai IO want them to. 

 

wire transfer in .. paypal transfer out .. repeat lol

 

they should have stuck with the letters 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2018 by GeorgeCross

[ubonjoe]

54 minutes ago, Wake Up said:

I forgot to mention she also said if I transferred 65 K a month every month  to a thai bank account that she would accept that instead of the 800k in the Thai account. But no more accepted USA embassy verification letters dated after January 1, 2019. 

I wonder if she meant that she would accept the income affidavit with proof of the 65k baht coming in.

As you said it is only one officer saying such. I will not believe anything until I see in writing from the Immigration Bureau.

I don't think anybody should pancic due to the words of one officer.,

[Thaidream]

8 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

wonder if she meant that she would accept the income affidavit with proof of the 65k baht coming in.

As you said it is only one officer saying such. I will not believe anything until I see in writing from the Immigration Bureau.

I don't think anybody should pancic due to the words of one officer.,

I agree completely- I find it odd that Thai Imm would not accept  a US Embassy affidavit if still available and it is as I mentioned- people are getting them every day No new info on US Embassy web site.They may want backup proof but they have always had that option.  

[Snow Leopard]

47 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

He clearly meant the two methods (as least, not sure about combo) would remain EXACTLY the same except for the use of income letters.

 

Bank method

800K in Thai bank account seasoned for two months (first extension application) and three months subsequent

TOTALLY UNCHANGED

 

Income method

Instead of proving income via income letter the officer told this guy you'd need to transfer in at least 65K baht MONTHLY into Thailand, regardless of whether you actually need to SPEND that much. For that you wouldn't have any worries about showing any specific balance at the application. It would be all based on showing the INCOME flowing into Thailand. 

Don't shoot me here but could you not transfer in 65K every month to one bank account. Withdraw it and then send it back out to where it came from 2 days later. Repeat monthly??? Take your bank book showing the amount coming in only. 

[WorriedNoodle]

1 hour ago, Wake Up said:

I said I heard about British but not USA. She said as of January 1, 2019 it applies to USA embassy also

Why only 2 nations? Does this not mean Aussies stat decs will be stopped as well? Indeed all nationalities retiring here should be treated equally?

[Athens]

1 hour ago, AGareth2 said:

do they accept Google maps?

Yes, but it is amassing that Immigration can not use Google maps, the mailman does not have any problem finding your location

 

Edited October 24, 2018 by Athens

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, WorriedNoodle said:

Why only 2 nations? Does this not mean Aussies stat decs will be stopped as well? Indeed all nationalities retiring here should be treated equally?

Not really 2 nations yet. One immigration officer saying something should not be taken seriously. 

 

[Wake Up]

1 hour ago, Kadilo said:

65K a month left in your account untouched for 12 months that shows 800,000 at end of the year, 65K a month that you can use them top up with 3 months to go before renewal, or 65K a month you can use to live on?

I don’t know. She spoke English well and was polite. She said I needed to show 800 k in a Thai bank three months before I apply for extension next year. Then she said I could also show 65k or more transferred monthly every month to a thai bank and that would be ok also. This year as long as the USA embassy letter is dated before January 1, 2019 then they will accept them the first six months of next year and then no more. She had some form that she checked off as she told me the information. She asked me what I would probably do next year and I said I would put 800 k in the Thai bank and she checked another box and then I waited for my passport back. 

Edited October 24, 2018 by Wake Up

[bluebluewater]

I'm pretty sure my days here in Thailand are numbered after some 13 years.  Alas . . . .

I do not have 800K in a bank here nor am I willing to deposit that amount and I do not need 65K to live and I am also unwilling to bring that amount in.  The heck of it is that I have several million dollars in brokerage accts in the States.   I live quietly and modestly here and I think I am the very kind of guy that Thailand might want to have about.

 

My choice to NOT do those things and I'm not looking for sympathy.  It's early days yet so we'll all just have to see how it works itself out. 

[stevenl]

15 minutes ago, WorriedNoodle said:

Why only 2 nations? Does this not mean Aussies stat decs will be stopped as well? Indeed all nationalities retiring here should be treated equally?

Other countries have their income verified by the embassy, so no need for this.

[wgdanson]

18 minutes ago, Snow Leopard said:

Take your bank book showing the amount coming in only.

Does a bank book not show withdrawals as well as deposits?

[wgdanson]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

Other countries have their income verified by the embassy, so no need for this.

I think not. Doesn't the Aussie & Dutch Embassies only require the applicant to swear they have the money/income. The Emabassies DO NOT verify that income.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

..
IMO if someone does not have a monthly income of 65 k one is not ready to retire. 

So should they work until they die, then - even though they could live well in Thailand (or Cambodia, Vietnam, PI, Latin America) on 40K/mo or less?  There was a study done of hospice-patients about regrets - "Wish they had spent more time working," was not a popular answer.

 

Granted, there is a balance to be had in deciding on such matters - but most GenXers will never have a private-pension - just some savings / investments if they are fortunate - and Social-Security/State-Pension amounts are far below 65K Baht/mo. 

Pulling 800K out of investments to put in a bank-acct is not a welcome option to many of us - so "rotate the money" it is, I suppose. 

 

I wonder how long until there is an automated service offered to handle it all?  They'll have to keep their fees below than the annual "agent fee" (15K to 25K) - which bypasses the financials altogether.

[pontious]

23 minutes ago, WorriedNoodle said:

Why only 2 nations? Does this not mean Aussies stat decs will be stopped as well? Indeed all nationalities retiring here should be treated equally?

The OP did not say the various Embassies  would be stopping them. The IO said they would not accept them. We will only know if Thai immigration publish something. 

Edited October 24, 2018 by pontious
add

[Snow Leopard]

4 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Does a bank book not show withdrawals as well as deposits?

Is the 65K not to live off then?? It is there for spending. 

[Wake Up]

7 minutes ago, bluebluewater said:

I'm pretty sure my days here in Thailand are numbered after some 13 years.  Alas . . . .

I do not have 800K in a bank here nor am I willing to deposit that amount and I do not need 65K to live and I am also unwilling to bring that amount in.  The heck of it is that I have several million dollars in brokerage accts in the States.   I live quietly and modestly here and I think I am the very kind of guy that Thailand might want to have about.

 

My choice to NOT do those things and I'm not looking for sympathy.  It's early days yet so we'll all just have to see how it works itself out. 

This lady was a supervisor and seemed authorative and had a form she filled out while talking to me but as UJ says she is one supervisor and I really don’t think Thailand wants to get rid of guys like you. Maybe they will work it out and change things again once they think through all of this. I am curious if any other Americans got the same talk I did today at CW.