USA income affidavit

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

Interesting post right up untill you said "try to lobby thai immigration"
 

True dat but believe it or not they have Thai immigration people that read this forum. So I am lobbying people to get real and get vocal about the need for TIMING FLEXIBILITY in imports if they switch (as clearly threatened) to require full import to Thailand of claimed income for income methods. We also need the COMBINATION method to be preserved.

 

Edited October 25, 2018 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Sorry JT= disagree-  I have no intention of lobbying for one way of showing income and that is by transfer only or as you say import.  There are many ways to prove monthly income. Your method works for you and others but not all of us. I am not interested if Thai Imm has to work harder to read my documents. I will be there to guide them through the process.

 

When I was asked for proof before of income- they easily read my documents with NO help from me- it took them about 2 minutes to look at the proof and they were satisfied. If they could do it then and they were satisfied- they can do it now. As I said many ways to prove income .....

Again you are confusing two very different things. You had the embassy letter in the past. The "proof" you provided was only a BACKUP for that letter. If the income letter goes away, it's just not reasonable to expect Thai immigration to become global finance experts (especially in smaller offices).

[Thaidream]

15 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

ue dat believe it or not they have Thai immigration people that read this forum. So I am lobbying people to get real and get vocal about the need for TIMING FLEXIBILITY in imports if they switch (as clearly threatened) to require full import to Thailand of claimed income for income methods. We also need the COMBINATION method to be preserved.

The combination method should be preserved but I refuse to accept that importing/transferring money each month from a US Bank account to a Thai Bank Account is the only way of showing income- I can easily take 65K from a Thai ATM- sourced from a US Bank and place it in a Thai bank.  It is sourced from the US and easily proved.

 

I could easily  carry Travelers Checks from the US in the amount of xx amount of dollars and cash 65K each month and put it into a Thai Bank and easily prove its source.\

 

I could bring in cash$20,000 on a trip to the US- declare it at customs- change 65K a month and place it in a Thai account.

 

There are more ways to do it but you get the jist. When you propose lobbying for one way- you are doing a disservice to many others who have been following the law by doing it differently then you desire or think Thai Imm will agree to. We don't know what they will agree to- yet...

Edited October 25, 2018 by Thaidream

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

I have just done my extension a month ago and it was no different to last year or the year before that. To date, next years extension should be the same.

There's no doubt that the days where someone's 'recent' experience could still be valid even if it's from up to 3 or 4 years ago, are long past. A lot has happened, even within the past 30 days and it does not involve Burmese laborers either. Notable is a very real uptick on the 'show me the money' encounters at both Bangkok airports for travelers with a cavalier attitude towards tourist visas and visa-exempt permissions to stay. The increased reports of the need for RetExtenders to provide maps which was an arcane requirement unique to the MarExtenders for as long as I recall. Can we assume that IO's who have already been more active on dropping-in on the married couples may also start knocking on the doors of the retired? The ongoing Jomtien TM28/30 pursuit has become so much standard operating procedure, nobody's bothering to cry foul anymore; just pay the fine(s) and on you go.

 

You have that distortion of comfort wrought of being good to go for (maybe) another 11 months. The fact is you are only assuming that you will breeze through next years renewal. There's a whole lot of water to flow under the bridge before we get anywhere near next October. Just noted that you said next year's 'should be the same' so maybe there is a degree of caution at play after all?

 

Now you may argue that the above 'for instances' involving travelers using different permissions to stay than you do are irrelevant since you don't use those. Right now you are blessed with a time-tested, standard operating procedure at your local IO. I am commenting on the broader screw tightening and not just Brits (and possibly Americans) that have just found a new hoop to jump through; or rather they have been made aware that they need to learn to jump through a hoop that's always been there but never applied to them before.

 

I too have had all my ducks in a row for as long as I have had to have all my ducks in a row and longer. But I will not presume that it's ever business as usual in LOS, even if I had managed to get my 8th RetExt under my belt last month. I have to wait until next January for my moment in the sun.

 

2 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Even the new boss has said nothing more than a few throw away statements for the media

And as for that last bit about taking any government official or spokesman as reported by the Thai media at their word... well, honestly.

[Jingthing]

Sure I would love to just be able to show my printed online social security letter and some printed online bank statements from a U.S. bank showing those monthly payments.

But it really isn't about what WE refuse to accept.

It's  about what THAI immigration refuses to accept. 

Edited October 25, 2018 by Jingthing

[Thaidream]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

ad the embassy letter in the past. The "proof" you provided was only a BACKUP for that letter. If the income letter goes away, it's just not reasonable to expect Thai immigration to become global finance experts (especially in smaller offices).

I am not confused- they don't need to be global finance experts- a simple bank account from the US shows a single page of all deposits and source and another page shows all debits and location.  My Thai daughter  understands it- I know from personal experience Thai Imm can read my bank statement- because they have already done it.

[NanLaew]

16 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

When I was asked for proof before of income- they easily read my documents with NO help from me- it took them about 2 minutes to look at the proof and they were satisfied. If they could do it then and they were satisfied- they can do it now. As I said many ways to prove income .....

You are conflating 'proof' with 'verification'.

 

Your IO did a quick check to see that the numbers on the documents matched what you were claiming, nothing more.

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I am not confused- they don't need to be global finance experts- a simple bank account from the US shows a single page of all deposits and source and another page shows all debits and location.  My Thai daughter  understands it- I know from personal experience Thai Imm can read my bank statement- because they have already done it.

Yeah, and I'm sure it's the same thing for an applicant with Russian language statements. Look, dude, this is an endless loop. We're going to just need to agree to disagree. I simply do not believe that Thai immigration will EVER accept the job of interpreting a complex grab bag of (non-official) international finance documents as their standard rule for income applications. 

Edited October 25, 2018 by Jingthing

[KevinboyCM]

On 10/24/2018 at 2:14 PM, sirineou said:

of course we don't know yet,

but I don't think it will have to stay untouched. if I understood you post correctly, It simply would need to show an income stream.

I think it would need to be from a verified source   because otherwise what's to stop someone from depositing  and withdrawing the same 65 K every month.

Nothing to stop you.  People can borrow the 800K, deposit it 3 months in advance and take out every single penny the day after they get their renewal.  The whole process is a giant joke.  Probably what they gonna do is force everyone to deposit 800k and not let you take it out for a year.  Otherwise how stupid is the whole process?  Makes no sense at all.  

 

I can see they might want the dead beats out of the country but no one is going to spend more money just because that is the minimum to put in.  On the other hand it has amazed me for 15 years that no one at Thai Immigration hadn't figured out 50-70% of those getting unverified affidavits from the consulates never had the minimum monthly deposit in the first place. I could never figure out why they let them do it.  

Edited October 25, 2018 by KevinboyCM

[NanLaew]

5 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I am not confused- they don't need to be global finance experts- a simple bank account from the US shows a single page of all deposits and source and another page shows all debits and location.  My Thai daughter  understands it- I know from personal experience Thai Imm can read my bank statement- because they have already done it.

Since the BE income letter only confirmed the same amounts in the same bank accounts as the bank statements that accompanied the application and it appears that this no longer is acceptable to Thai Immigration, we can take it that what you and your daughter can do is not verification as far as the Thai Immigration is concerned.

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, NanLaew said:

You are conflating 'proof' with 'verification'.

 

Your IO did a quick check to see that the numbers on the documents matched what you were claiming, nothing more.

There is no verification possible because no one can go directly to the original source and obtain a verified statement of truth. No pine can call the Social Security Department in the Us and get your information except your self.

 

so- how do people get proof- they get a letter from Social Security- with the letterhead - stating income. They get a letter from Veterans  Department verifying amounts. They get a letter from their private bank pension provider with amounts.\

 

They then also have in their hand a bank statment for 3 months showing that all the amounts from the letters are going into the bank as direct deposits and then the bank statement actually shows the debits and the Thai ATM location where the money is taken from.

 

After that the applicant shows his Debit Cards and the number on the card match the bank statement. And then if that is not enough- the applicant shows the ATM slips which have the number of the Debit card printed on the slip.

 

100% foolproof- no- but damn close.  Will it be accepted in the future- don't know but I intend on asking. 

 

 

[Thaidream]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

eah, and I'm sure it's the same thing for an applicant with Russian language statements. Look, dude, this is an endless loop. We're going to just need to agree to disagree. I simply do not believe that Thai immigration will EVER accept the job of interpreting a complex grab bag of (non-official) international finance documents as their standard rule for income applications. 

There are translators. We will not agree but my point why lobby for one way. Let Thai Imm decide on their own what they will accept and will not.  In the past, I have found them to be reasonable 

[ArickChaiyaphum]

Interesting post right up untill you said "try to lobby thai immigration"

Import what ??? It is called a exchange rate transfer to exotic funds. Takes 24 hours from US UKP CDN etc


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[KevinboyCM]

Probably best for everyone to just go to sleep until Jan 1 and see what the Sages decide to allow.  Otherwise just mental masturbation here.  

 

But they are gonna have a massive exodus as most Americans at least do not make anywhere near 65k a month in income.  More like 40k or so.

 

Then there was a friend of mine who was traveling and forgot to deposit the 800k. He is a multi millionaire with cash in the bank but Immigration said too bad.  So a guy who has almost no money can stay but a millionaire who flucks up can't.  Makes sense to me. Amazing Thailand.  

Edited October 25, 2018 by KevinboyCM

[onera1961]

2 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

so- how do people get proof- they get a letter from Social Security- with the letterhead - stating income. They get a letter from Veterans  Department verifying amounts. They get a letter from their private bank pension provider with amounts.\

When US banks and other private entities can verify income, why not American Embassy? For that matter BE and other embassies and can also assure TI that they are verifying income affidavit. Will TI accept their assurances? I am not sure abut top level negotiations, as many posters mentioned, is on going and I wish they could come up with a solution that keeps the affidavit method currently in place and acceptable to TI. People get million dollar loans based on private party verification in the US and when US bank can take the risk of giving million dollars loans based on their verification method why embassies cannot assure TI that their verification method is solid. Be it based on SS letter, tax returns, or pension letters or whatever. 

[marcusarelus]

6 minutes ago, KevinboyCM said:

Probably best for everyone to just go to sleep until Jan 1 and see what the Sages decide to allow.  Otherwise just mental masturbation here.  

 

But they are gonna have a massive exodus as most Americans at least do not make anywhere near 65k a month in income.  More like 40k or so.

 

Then there was a friend of mine who was traveling and forgot to deposit the 800k. He is a multi millionaire with cash in the bank but Immigration said too bad.  So a guy who has almost no money can stay but a millionaire who flucks up can't.  Makes sense to me. Amazing Thailand.  

Average American household income is 1,815,000.00 baht per year.

[onera1961]

12 minutes ago, ArickChaiyaphum said:

Import what ??? It is called a exchange rate transfer to exotic funds. Takes 24 hours from US UKP CDN etc

Import worries and risk of living in Thailand ????

[KevinboyCM]

3 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

When US banks and other private entities can verify income, why not American Embassy? For that matter BE and other embassies and can also assure TI that they are verifying income affidavit. Will TI accept their assurances? I am not sure abut top level negotiations, as many posters mentioned, is on going and I wish they could come up with a solution that keeps the affidavit method currently in place and acceptable to TI. People get million dollar loans based on private party verification in the US and when US bank can take the risk of giving million dollars loans based on their verification method why embassies cannot assure TI that their verification method is solid. Be it based on SS letter, tax returns, or pension letters or whatever. 

Thailand is not the US. 

 

 

[JLCrab]

13 minutes ago, KevinboyCM said:

Probably best for everyone to just go to sleep until Jan 1

Thank you. I have put in a wake-up call with the front desk.

[blackhorse]

Probably best for everyone to just go to sleep until Jan 1 and see what the Sages decide to allow.  Otherwise just mental masturbation here.  
 
But they are gonna have a massive exodus as most Americans at least do not make anywhere near 65k a month in income.  More like 40k or so.
 
Then there was a friend of mine who was traveling and forgot to deposit the 800k. He is a multi millionaire with cash in the bank but Immigration said too bad.  So a guy who has almost no money can stay but a millionaire who flucks up can't.  Makes sense to me. Amazing Thailand.  

He forgot about the 800 k? Dude that's not a slip up. It's the biggest mistake he could possibly make. Iimmigration could care less about the do you know who I am story that would have transpired

Rules are rules. Your mate is a fool, to much thinking with the little head me thinks

[Russell17au]

1 minute ago, KevinboyCM said:

Thailand is not the US. 

 

 

That is right and it is not the UK, Australia or any other country and it has its own immigration laws the same as every other country has and it is up to each individual country to ensure that they supply their citizens with the accepted paperwork to meet the Thai immigration laws not for Thailand to change their laws to suit the citizens of every other country. If you are going to rally anyone then rally your own government to supply the correct paperwork that Thai Immigration want.

[55Jay]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

My first Visa extension was in 1971 when I had to place a $1,000 bond in a Thai bank for a 30 day extension due to family issues. 

By chance, do you recall if Embassies (US, et al) were in the Income Affidavit business back then?

[NanLaew]

8 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

When US banks and other private entities can verify income, why not American Embassy? For that matter BE and other embassies and can also assure TI that they are verifying income affidavit. Will TI accept their assurances? I am not sure abut top level negotiations, as many posters mentioned, is on going and I wish they could come up with a solution that keeps the affidavit method currently in place and acceptable to TI. People get million dollar loans based on private party verification in the US and when US bank can take the risk of giving million dollars loans based on their verification method why embassies cannot assure TI that their verification method is solid. Be it based on SS letter, tax returns, or pension letters or whatever. 

Because all foreign banks and foreign entities including foreign embassies are not Thai.

 

Thai Immigration wants to see either the lump sum seasoned appropriately or proof of minimum monthly income in a Thai bank account in the name of the person making/renewing the application to extend their stay. Bits of paper, be they protected in non-Thai courts of law or otherwise, are of absolutely no value to Thai Immigration. Thai Immigration only knows how to read bank book, bank statement or ATM slip from a Thai bank.

 

Here endeth the 5,633rd lesson.

[NanLaew]

5 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

If you are going to rally anyone then rally your own government to supply the correct paperwork that Thai Immigration want.

See the above post #323

[Russell17au]

1 minute ago, NanLaew said:

Because all foreign banks and foreign entities including foreign embassies are not Thai.

 

Thai Immigration wants to see either the lump sum seasoned appropriately or proof of minimum monthly income in a Thai bank account in the name of the person making/renewing the application to extend their stay. Bits of paper, be they protected in non-Thai courts of law or otherwise, are of absolutely no value to Thai Immigration. Thai Immigration only knows how to read bank book, bank statement or ATM slip from a Thai bank.

 

Here endeth the 5,633rd lesson.

You are wrong. The minimum monthly income does not have to be in a Thai bank account. My income has always been paid into my Australian bank account and I have used my Australian Visa debit card at any ATM for the withdrawals. I changed to a Thai bank account 4 months ago

[Formaleins]

On 10/24/2018 at 2:14 PM, sirineou said:

of course we don't know yet,

but I don't think it will have to stay untouched. if I understood you post correctly, It simply would need to show an income stream.

I think it would need to be from a verified source   because otherwise what's to stop someone from depositing  and withdrawing the same 65 K every month.

Banks  put a little code next to the transfer details in your bank book. It is easy to see if it comes from outside Thailand

[Thaidream]

5 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

By chance, do you recall if Embassies (US, et al) were in the Income Affidavit business back then?

They were not. There wasn't a retirement extension or a marriage extension that I was aware of and no mention when I went to Thai Immin Bangkok which at that time was located in Soi suan Plu.

[KevinboyCM]

12 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Thank you. I have put in a wake-up call with the front desk.

I suggest you get an alarm clock. To ask the front desk person to remember would be a monumental task above their pay grade.

[Mike Wolfe]

That's interesting what was the name of the immigration supervisor you met with yesterday?  Because I just left the immigration office in Bangkok a few minutes ago myself where I also had a meeting with a supervisor there named Wattanapong Tawara about the future of the income affidavits for United States citizens and he assured me that there are absolutely no changes coming regarding the proof of income affidavit for U.S. citizens.  He said that immigration isn't changing any procedures regarding the extension of retirement or marriage visas for any citizen of any country and that the issue regarding the British citizens is merely a British embassy issue and he said that no other embassy is changing the way they process their income letters and he assured me again that all immigration offices throughout Thailand will continue to accept the income affidavits next year and for the foreseeable future.  So what was the name of the immigration supervisor who you spoke with?  The man I spoke with today is a very senior level immigration supervisor and he told me exactly the opposite of what you posted.  So far you're the first person to post any information about this and it only came from one immigration officer, and I'm the second person.  What was the immigration supervisors name?  I'm really curious to know if you spoke to the same IO as I did which was the same immigration office as well.  I really want to know who you spoke with, I know who I spoke with at immigration.  Again according to him they will continue to accept the income affidavits next year and they have no plans to change the process for any citizen of any country and that came from a high level immigration supervisor at the same office.   

[onera1961]

1 minute ago, NanLaew said:

Because all foreign banks and foreign entities including foreign embassies are not Thai.

TI only wants embassies to verify income. And it appears BE already has said they cannot verify incomes. My questions is why? Why they cannot verify? They can outsource verification to a third party company in the UK (for a fee paid by applicant).

 

I don't blame TIs because most officers there still have 20th century mindset may be due to their education or whatever. It seems they need assurances from embassies that they are verifying incomes, instead of just stamping papers. At least Western embassies should take a proactive roles in assuring TIs that they are verifying incomes and their verification is as solid and as good as it gets. If I get evidence that they have done that and TIs are not accepting it, I can blame TIs. 99.9 percent of their citizens have paid substantial taxes through out their lifetime and they will be doing it for a fee.