Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[Mike Teavee]

2 hours ago, Maestro said:

Thank you for the clarification. 

 

In Switzerland, where I currently reside, the law is very much like in Thailand. I have no idea how it is in the other 200 or so countries on planet earth, nor does it really matter as the discussion was about the inheritance of the money deposited in Thai bank accounts by foreigners with temporary permission to stay in Thailand. Wouldn't Thai law apply to that?

Sorry I thought the discussion was concerns people had about what would happen to their 800,000 should they die in Thailand & the point I was trying to make is that this would not automatically follow Estate Law and go to the relevant spouse/children outside of Thailand unless they wrote a Will in Thailand.

 

Or any other country for that fact - As an aside, it's a quirk of UK Law that Wills done in England & Wales (Maybe also NI) do not cover you for assets in Scotland so you need a separate Scottish Will covering these.

 

Regardless, I think we can agree that if you do have a "large" amount of money in any country (including your own) it makes sense to have a Will with instructions to ensure it's distributed as you would want it to be.

[smedly]

On 10/28/2018 at 8:55 PM, smedly said:

I called this a couple of weeks ago while the insults directed at the British were flying in thick and fast, perhaps a simple apology would be well deserved for the BE giving you all a heads up 

no comments lol

[Mike Teavee]

7 hours ago, JackThompson said:

I suppose they could be that foolish - but, so far, seem to have managed to resist shooting their citizens in the foot in that fashion.  Similar with Cambodia, Vietnam, and The PI, in this region - they aren't enacting policies to make their citizens poorer, at the behest of whatever corrupting influence. 

There is no logical explanation for removing self-sufficient foreigners spending foreign-capital into a nation's economy, unless they are engaged in criminal activity.

It makes sense to control how many self-sufficient foreigners spending foreign-capital (& how much foreign-capital they bring with them) as they drive up the cost of living & (unless you increase local salaries thus driving inflation & further driving up the cost of living) push down the standard of living for the locals.

 

It's a balancing act, hence Thailand is trying to ensure that retirees have the minimum assets/amount of spending that they believe injects foreign-capital into the appropriate "level" of the economy (i.e. "Middle Class" upwards).

 

 

[Larryst]

They might make it easier for direct deposit. If SSA have direct deposit to a Thai bank. Things might change next year.

 

[assayer]

11 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Call the main office and ask to speak with the person in charge of direct deposit accounts for Americans and she will fix it for you.  I had a problem and called her from the bank where I was opening the account and gave her my phone and she talked to the manager and solved the problem in 5 minutes.  I think Pib who posts here knows her name but I've forgotten it. 

I don't understand, from your comment, just what problem I need fixed. Unless it is going to the bank in person each time I need to withdraw from the direct deposit account. And I fully believe this manager told me the correct info. So would you explain youre comment, for my benefit, please?

[marcusarelus]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

It is premature to assume any income based application at all without an embassy letter will be accepted. Get real. We know what we know about the future for people trying income based applications without embassy letters. NOTHING. People need to WAIT. For what? Either a clear announcement from Thai immigration or if they don't do that, individual reports of actual applicants at the various offices. Not chats with random officers. Actual experiences. Again, TOO EARLY. 

https://th.usembassy.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/90/faq-income-affidavit.pdf

 

The U.S. Mission in Thailand has been working with the Social Security Administration (SSA) regarding deposits directly into Thai banks. The SSA recently notified us that it has approved Thailand to participate in the International Direct Deposit (IDD) program.

 

 

          This will make proof of income easier. ????

 

IDD will be implemented beginning in the first quarter of 2019. More infor-

mation about IDD can be found at: https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10137.pdf

 

 

[inThailand]

3 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

https://th.usembassy.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/90/faq-income-affidavit.pdf

 

The U.S. Mission in Thailand has been working with the Social Security Administration (SSA) regarding deposits directly into Thai banks. The SSA recently notified us that it has approved Thailand to participate in the International Direct Deposit (IDD) program.

 

 

          This will make proof of income easier. ????

 

IDD will be implemented beginning in the first quarter of 2019. More infor-

mation about IDD can be found at: https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10137.pdf

 

 

When they provide it in Thai you might have a less chance than winning the lottery. 

[marcusarelus]

19 minutes ago, Larryst said:

They might make it easier for direct deposit. If SSA have direct deposit to a Thai bank. Things might change next year.

 

They have direct deposit of SSA with Bank of Bangkok now. 

[marcusarelus]

6 minutes ago, inThailand said:

When they provide it in Thai you might have a less chance than winning the lottery. 

Why would they need to provide it in Thai?  Immigration can read English numbers as they do now from my bank book and my bank letter verifying deposit 800,000.

[marcusarelus]

20 minutes ago, assayer said:

I don't understand, from your comment, just what problem I need fixed. Unless it is going to the bank in person each time I need to withdraw from the direct deposit account. And I fully believe this manager told me the correct info. So would you explain youre comment, for my benefit, please?

You wrote, "The next big drawback to this account is the length of time it takes to get it into effect, 2-3 months is what the branch manager told me today."

 

That's not correct it will open immediately. 

 

[inThailand]

97 pages and counting. It's 800K in a Thai bank for three months. 

[Thaidream]

8 minutes ago, inThailand said:

97 pages and counting. It's 800K in a Thai bank for three months. 

Or 65K income stream-  Police Order 2014  or Combination of income  and deposit- Police Order 2014.

[stephenterry]

Latest from British consulate Bangkok - regarding TI latest rules.

 

Further to your enquire. There are two options to apply for a retirement visa;

British Nationals should now demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 800,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand for a retirement visa

 

Monies can be verified by the Thai banks with which the account is held.

 

According to Thai Immigration’s website and the “Order of the Immigration Bureau No. 327/2557, Criteria and Conditions for Consideration of an Alien’s Application for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand”, applicants  must have evidence of  an income of at least 65,000 THB per month or the applicant must have funds deposited in a bank in Thailand of no less than 800,000 THB for the past three months.

 

Further information: www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22

[Tanoshi]

10 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Latest from British consulate Bangkok - regarding TI latest rules.

 

Further to your enquire. There are two options to apply for a retirement visa;

British Nationals should now demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 800,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand for a retirement visa

 

Monies can be verified by the Thai banks with which the account is held.

That may well be an interpretation of the rules by the BE.

Thai Immigration have not confirmed 65K a month deposited in a Thai bank is acceptable.

[Tanoshi]

20 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Or 65K income stream-  Police Order 2014  or Combination of income  and deposit- Police Order 2014.

How do you continue with the combination method when the proof of income part no longer exists?

Edited October 30, 2018 by Tanoshi

[Aforek]

Right, I think combination method is not possible anymore, because it depended of the letter from the embassies and immigration, in the link above, doesn't tell anything about it 

[Thaidream]

28 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

How do you continue with the combination method when the proof of income part no longer exists?

It exists in the police order of 2014-  the question remains if Thai Imm will go with what is actually written or they will have a different interpretation.

 

Since there are only 2 Embassies that will no longer provide an Income Letter after Jan 1 other Embassy letters appear to remain. It is hard for me to believe that Thai Imm would say= sorry no letter no income stream of 65K or Combo method. According to the Embassies UK/US- Thai Imm   said you have to verify the income.  Now both Embassies have thrown down the gauntlet and said-impossible.

 

My instincts tell me  that the big Imm offices like CM; CW; Jomtien/Pattaya Udon will give leeway as they will have the info from  the Commissioner .  Of course, Thai Imm can at some point issue a new Police order changing everything 

 

[NaamGin]

55 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Latest from British consulate Bangkok - regarding TI latest rules.

 

Further to your enquire. There are two options to apply for a retirement visa;

British Nationals should now demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 800,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand for a retirement visa

 

Monies can be verified by the Thai banks with which the account is held.

 

According to Thai Immigration’s website and the “Order of the Immigration Bureau No. 327/2557, Criteria and Conditions for Consideration of an Alien’s Application for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand”, applicants  must have evidence of  an income of at least 65,000 THB per month or the applicant must have funds deposited in a bank in Thailand of no less than 800,000 THB for the past three months.

 

Further information: www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22

 

I made the same statement on the thread about the British Embassy ceasing to issue income affidavits and was called a liar. The point of contention was about using the monthly income method and whether the monies needed to be deposited into a Thai bank account for verification. The letter of the law does not state that the monies have to be deposited in a Thai bank account, but when you go talk to immigration, they say, "how else can we verify that you have this money coming INTO THAILAND". I know because I went and asked... 

 

[thaicurious]

On 10/26/2018 at 12:28 AM, Nyezhov said:

Look at it this way, if you are getting MINIMAL social security ONLY of say $1500 a month (which is low for most folks with a lifetime of work)....

fyi according to money.usnews: "The average Social Security benefit was $1,413.37 per month in June 2018."

[mogandave]

I think the B800K is reasonable, particularly for people without medical insurance.

[Thaidream]

7 minutes ago, NaamGin said:

ay, "how else can we verify that you have this money coming INTO THAILAND". I know because I went and asked... 

Easily proved- your US or UK Bank Statement showing amounts  debited and location of the Thai ATM machines. Then you show them the Debit Cards.  Then you show them the ATM slips. They asked me the same question once- once they saw the debit cards- they accepted my explanation. Yes -I had the Embassy Letter at the time.

[JLCrab]

My question would be regarding the monthly income 'evidence' is that it would require not just monthly deposit slips, but that the source of the funds is some bona fide pension from social security, military, or a corporate source, etc. or is it just some miscellaneous income source like investment or rental property income that you might have one month but could possibly not exist the next.

Edited October 30, 2018 by JLCrab

[Pattaya46]

5 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

My question would be regarding the monthly income 'evidence' is that it would require not just monthly deposit slips, but that the source of the funds is some bona fide pension from social security, military, or a corporate source, etc. or is it just some miscellaneous income source like investment or rental property income that you might have one month but could possibly not exist the next.

Many people on "Retirement Extension" are not yet retired and don't have any kind of pension.

You just need to be 50 yo to get it.

Even among retirees, many don't have pension, just a big asset.

[Pib]

When taking a look at the US and UK Embassies statements (quoted below), both statements are in sync stating that "if you have a Bt65K monthly deposit going into a Thai bank" you will no longer need an embassy letter.  

 

If we assume Thai Immigration officials indeed told US/UK embassy officials this in earlier face-to-face meetings and TI gave verbal assurance during those meetings they would update their directives/websites as soon as possible, well, taking into consideration what "as soon as possible" equates to in "Thai time" which could easily be months from now, we may not see any official guidance until early next year.  

 

And I can understand why US/UK officials did not put in their statements something along the lines of "that is what TI officials stated in the meetings" as US/UK embassies would not want to put TI immigration on the spot knowing there are probably some high ranking Thai official signatures still required to approve update policy guidance.   Basically, US/UK not wanting to speak for TI.  And the US/UK statements are not really speaking for TI because the way the statements are worded the statement reflect how the US/UK embassies interpret current TI policy/websites.

 

Me have a bad feeling that when the TI official guidance does come out it's going to say "a monthly deposit into a local Thai bank account supported by a Thai bank statement."   Something similar to the current Thai bank letter required if using the Bt800K/400K deposit in a Thai bank option.   This is just what me thinks, but me often wrong...but me also right sometimes.  

 

US Embassy Statement

https://th.usembassy.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/90/faq-income-affidavit.pdf

Quote

As of October 26, 2018, U.S. citizens can verify they meet the income requirements directly with Royal Thai Immigration by providing a local bank statement indicating a minimum deposit of 800,000 Thai Baht or a local bank statement showing a monthly deposit of at least 65,000 Thai Baht. Applicants should refer to the above-referenced websites for specifics regarding the timing and conditions associated with these deposits.

 

UK Embassy Statement

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notarial-and-documentary-services-guide-for-thailand#announcement

Quote

British Nationals should now demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 800,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand. For marriage visas British Nationals should demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 400,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 40,000 THB. A bank statement should be used as the supporting document for obtaining a Thai retirement or marriage visa.

 

[marcusarelus]

16 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

My question would be regarding the monthly income 'evidence' is that it would require not just monthly deposit slips, but that the source of the funds is some bona fide pension from social security, military, or a corporate source, etc. or is it just some miscellaneous income source like investment or rental property income that you might have one month but could possibly not exist the next.

US embassy says, "approved Thailand to participate in the International Direct Deposit (IDD) program. This will make proof of income easier."

 

 

[Sheryl]

The US Embassy Bangkok just announced:

 

The Consular Section of the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok is pleased to provide services in Udon Thani.

Date: 7 November 2018
Time:  12:00pm – 3:00pm  
Venue:  Centara Hotel & Convention Centre Udon Thani

 

Boy is that going to a well-attended last round-up for income affidavits 

 

 

I urge all attending -- here or at other venues -- to use the occasion to inform the Embassy staff that there has yet to be any change in Imm documentation requirements and that local Imm Offices are unaware of any change i.e
Embassy letters remain the requirement.

I am concerned that the Embassy is relying on statements mad to them by higher level central Imm Bureau staff months ago that have never been translated into action. They need to know that what they state on the Embassy website re use of income method without Embassy letter is in fact not currently the case. Because it may need follow up from the Embassy to Imm to make that happen


Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[JLCrab]

9 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

US embassy says, "approved Thailand to participate in the International Direct Deposit (IDD) program. This will make proof of income easier."

That may be for US government programs such as military or Social Sec. but what about miscellaneous sources of income such as your savings or investment income or your monthly share from your ownership in a vegan juice bar by the beach.

[JLCrab]

24 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Many people on "Retirement Extension" are not yet retired and don't have any kind of pension.

You just need to be 50 yo to get it.

Even among retirees, many don't have pension, just a big asset.

So they can put 800K baht in the bank.

[greenbottle555]

I've been in Thailand for 5 years on non-imm O visas. With the recent "Operation X-Ray Outlaw Foreigner" crackdowns and now this where there is no way to apply for a visa without putting 12,000-24,000 USD into a Thai bank, I'm going elsewhere. The combination of having to deposit money into a Thai bank, while at the same time police are going around door-to-door looking for reasons to deport foreigners, is just a clear sign that foreigners are not welcomed to stay here. Heck, I just learned that work visas and permits are being turned down, you can't even work here even if a Thai company wants you to. It's simply not sustainable. I am thinking of relocating to singapore since I'm at the point in my life where I am shopping around for the best place to raise a family. I think Thailand is scaring away the people who are more likely to work a normal job than they are scaring away the "bad guys out good guys in" motto.

[Mike Teavee]

Just now, JLCrab said:

So they can put 800K baht in the bank.

Why shouldn't we be able to use our Passive Income from Rentals, Stock Portfolios etc...