Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[Peterw42]

2 minutes ago, HAL9000 said:

I went to Chiang Rai immigration today to show my American bank statement, Social Security income certification letter, and screenshot of the OPM benefit page. They said they will not accept them and if I still want to use the income method, I have to show the money in a Thai bank.

Income into a Thai bank or the 800k, for 90 days, in a Thai bank ?

[Pib]

Now above is a real world test. Hope no one is surprised.

 

 

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

That's what the BE and American embassy are saying.

 

1 hour ago, pontious said:

But TI  have not said it.

 

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

Yes that's what we are discussing.  Will Thailand go back on what they said to the USA and BE? 

Seriously? 

How can you write that when you have no idea at all

on what Thai Immigration may have say to these embassies !

 

Maybe TI just said 2 words :

- "Yes", when asked if the amount on Income Letters had to be checked/verified

- "Yes", when asked if it was possible to get an Extension when having 65k monthly

 

Edit: Of course the second "Yes" implies to show an embassy letter... 

Edited October 31, 2018 by Pattaya46

[JLCrab]

28 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

UK an US embassies could say a note from your mum is acceptable, until TI says it, the statements mean nothing.

However the existing Police Order mentioning extension of retirement stay based upon 'evidence' of having income of no less than 65,000 baht per month has not been rescinded and is still in effect.

[bkk6060]

Don't know if this has been posted.

This is the Bangkok Bank directive regarding ACH transfers.  It seems to only apply to direct deposits regarding retirement type funds.

Edited October 31, 2018 by bkk6060

[marcusarelus]

33 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Seriously? 

How can you write that when you have no idea at all

on what Thai Immigration may have say to these embassies !

 

Maybe TI just said 2 words :

- "Yes", when asked if the amount on Income Letters had to be checked/verified

- "Yes", when asked if it was possible to get an Extension when having 65k monthly

 

Edit: Of course the second "Yes" implies to show an embassy letter... 

Because of what the BE and American embassy have said/written that the Thai Immigration said about the income method.  That's how. 

[HAL9000]

On 10/29/2018 at 8:50 AM, ubonjoe said:

That is only on the Thai language page. In English the requirements are listed. To get it in English you click Eng at the top right side of the page.

Screenshot of it in English.

 

 

That's very interesting. I'm attaching a screenshot of the page because on mine there is no English language toggle. So I have to read the Google translation of the Thai version.

 

But as far as the criteria goes, it's very interesting that it says "attach documents proving .... 40,000 per year, such as ... income tax return .... , evidence of receiving a retirement pension, evidence of receiving interest from funds deposit, or evidence of having other funds issued by the relevant agency."

This would indicate that our American income documents are satisfactory.

On the other hand, today I just took my US bank statement, US Social Security income certification letter, and a screenshot of my OPM benefit web page to Chiang Rai immigration, and they said they cannot accept them, and if I wanted to continue to use the income method, I have to show it deposited to a Thai bank.

[Wake Up]

20 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Don't know if this has been posted.

This is the Bangkok Bank directive regarding ACH transfers.  It seems to only apply to direct deposits regarding retirement type funds.

Would you please start another thread with this letter. Many guys are tired of reading this thread about income letters and will miss seeing your post. I thank you for posting this letter. 

[HAL9000]

On 10/29/2018 at 9:46 AM, Jingthing said:

Yes until and unless Thai immigration announces a policy change saying embassy letters are no longer required and details what exactly will be required without them going forward.

For now switching to the bank method is the safest option for continuing extensions in Thailand.

We can all hope that TI will resolve this uncertainty in a clear and definitive manner ASAP but that doesn't mean that they will.
 

Right. For my November transfer, instead of using my ATM card for the full balance, I'm going to use TransferWise to deposit 40k into the Thai bank and use the ATM card as needed on the rest. As the saying goes, it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

[pontious]

56 minutes ago, HAL9000 said:

I went to Chiang Rai immigration today to show my American bank statement, Social Security income certification letter, and screenshot of the OPM benefit page. They said they will not accept them and if I still want to use the income method, I have to show the money in a Thai bank.

When you say SS income letter are you saying 'the embassy letter'?

[ubonjoe]

11 minutes ago, Wake Up said:

Would you please start another thread with this letter. Many guys are tired of reading this thread about income letters and will miss seeing your post. I thank you for posting this letter. 

It has already been posted in a topic on the correct forum.

Topic here.

 

[Thaidream]

2 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

dmit you were wrong about 2/3 of your post and move on.  You're bluff didn't work. 

I have already moved on.  My post stands-  I may not have stated it explicitly regarding lost money-but I do not lie - I merely state what happened to me and the History behind it. I could give you my opinion on what I believe will happen next in Thailand but you wouldn't believe me or care-so I won't  provide it    I have my own contacts that I depend on . I have already sent  some questions to the US Embassy .   That's it- no more.....if you were offended- that was not my aim and sorry you took it personally.

[totally thaied up]

12 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Why would the well-being of a non-hiso farang like me and his Thai wife concern them?  They treated her like some sort of criminal/traitor, in our last immigration-visit.

 

Upon our first marriage extension, I had an immigration visit to my home that was not friendly. I had been on a Volunteer Visa for two years prior to getting married. I was drilled on this for quite some time and my wife was then asked for a long period of time about me. It was not very pleasant at all. We decided then to use an Agent from that point on. Our problems then disappeared. My wife found the experience very unsettling. Our concern is that we are of nothing and they would not care at all in raising the 400K and breaking families apart now after what I have seen,

 

12 hours ago, JackThompson said:

 

I'll bring in enough to live on incrementally, and that's it.  I hope the "new rules" will allow for this, as they did in the past.

I will do the same. Goal Posts have been moved and I am sure it was not the Embassy that moved them. This does not make me want to invest money here for our future. My wife has a job and also a restaurant that we spend money on so she can gain a second income from that. That means we are investing money here, give three Thais a working job each day and if I went, yes, suddenly three people out of employment. 

[JimGant]

Quote

However the existing Police Order mentioning extension of retirement stay based upon 'evidence' of having income of no less than 65,000 baht per month has not been rescinded and is still in effect.

I'm not even sure where "income letters from your embassy" even shows up in police orders.....

 

But it apparently has become clear to Thai authorities that proof of income means zip -- if that income is not available in Thailand. Too many vagrants with income letters wandering around. Easy solution? Show that the stipulated amount of money has arrived on Thai shores (and forget ATM slips, as that's too unwieldy). This is what the British and American embassies have been told.

 

And don't get hung up on "income." Too much discussion here re capital gains, rents, etc. The Thais are interested in positive "cash flow" into Thailand -- not income per se. That could be from pensions, but also proceeds from selling your car, milking down your savings account, money from relatives, or hit money from the convenience store. The Thais don't care -- it's now cash is cash -- and it best be brought into Thailand.

 

Why no instant info about this from Immigration? Implementation, of course. How to withdraw the income letter option from all embassies, and how much phase out time. And now for the Yanks and Brits, how to phase in the money in the bank route. Certainly they can't demand 12 months' worth of deposits the next time you go to extend. They'll need to give you at least until the subsequent extension for this. In the mean time, maybe they'll just require a single month's deposit, to show you do, indeed, have some funds available, that you have a bank account, and that you have a means to send it to Thailand. Who knows -- but a token amount won't hurt the Thais, as this may be more money ever sent to Thailand by some income letter holders.....

 

Anyway, we'll see. Oh, certainly the combo method will still be allowed, which for some will make things more manageable. And who knows -- now with cash in hand, the Thais may lower the requirement numbers.... (Naaa).

[Thaidream]

5 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

will do the same. Goal Posts have been moved and I am sure it was not the Embassy that moved them. This does not make me want to invest money here for our future. My wife has a job and also a restaurant that we spend money on so she can gain a second income from that. That means we are investing money here, give three Thais a working job each day and if I went, yes, suddenly three people out of employment. 

Yes= agree completely- although having done many extensions most have been without issue. There have been a few times when questions were asked in Thai that I felt inappropriate and downright rude. My wife didn't like the questions either.

The strangest request I had from an IO in Bangkok was to produce the original US Passport that showed I was in Thailand on the date of the marriage.  I had already provided  the original marriage certificate; the  Form 2 from the Amphur showing still married plus the affirmation of marriage. At that time- Us Passports were  valid for 5 years only and since I had already been married 25 years- it was an old passport- I found it and went back to them and from the look on their face- they were quite surprised. After they confirmed the date of entry in the Passport -the approved the extension.  I have always wondered what they would have said if I didn't save the Passport. Mist likely- they would have found a way to 'help' me.

 

 

[garyk]

With all due respect. 114 pages on this thread with only one piece of information. That is the American Embassy will stop issuing letters.

Personally I think it is disgraceful that TI has not responded to this in any way shape or form. 

Extremely poor way to do business, and a lack of respect for the expat community is appalling IMO.

 

[HAL9000]

On 10/29/2018 at 5:05 PM, DogNo1 said:

For my one-year extensions of stay, I always presented my embassy-notarized affidavit of income showing that I received more than 65,000 monthly and had copies of three months of bank statements showing that It was deposited into my American checking account each month.  There has been no announcement that the bank statement copies will not continue to be acceptable proof of income.

In your case, the requirement was the affidavit. Your statements were supporting documents that were probably unnecessary.

[bkk6060]

1 minute ago, garyk said:

With all due respect. 114 pages on this thread with only one piece of information. That is the American Embassy will stop issuing letters.

Personally I think it is disgraceful that TI has not responded to this in any way shape or form. 

Extremely poor way to do business, and a lack of respect for the expat community is appalling IMO.

 

Disagree on all of it. 

You think other governments would have resolved it faster?  I sure don´t.

I am sure they are trying to figure things out.

As the 114 pages show, there are many opinions and offered solutions to this issue.

It is not a quick decision and the fact they are taking time makes me think they are trying to get it right.

 

[hwaetu Go]

Thanks to Mike TeaV and Crab for responding with the following (see below). Does this mean then that the monthly income must come into a Thai bank each month ex. to show the equivalent of 65,000 baht over the previous 6 months? I now have a three month non-o visa due Jan 3, for which I believe I can get one or more  extensions. You mentioned getting an "income letter" which has 6 month validity. What is that? The Embassy I herd is not providing that now, correct?

 

So, what does this mean to those who actually have monthly income coming in from income abroad (example rentals (not retirement pension) totaling the monthly 65K baht figure afore necessary? 

To save you reading the previous 111 pages...

• In short, nobody knows for sure yet
• Both the British & US Embassies have said that you'll be able to use proof of deposits into a Thai Bank account, the source & frequency requirements for these are not known yet
• Both Embassies will issue Certificate of Income up to the end of the year (For British Embassy you need to get your request in by 12th December) & Thai Immigration have said they will accept them up to 6 months after issue date.

So if you're planning on using the income method & your renewal is due before the end of July (Mid August in some places) it would be prudent to get your Income letter this year (obviously being mindful of the 6 month validity period, don't get it now if you're renewal is due after 1st June) otherwise make whatever contingency plans you feel are appropriate for you to mitigate against the risk of not being able to use proof of income.

 

Or just ignore it & deal with things when the time comes... 

 

[garyk]

3 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Disagree on all of it. 

You think other governments would have resolved it faster?  I sure don´t.

I am sure they are trying to figure things out.

As the 114 pages show, there are many opinions and offered solutions to this issue.

It is not a quick decision and the fact they are taking time makes me think they are trying to get it right.

 

Every option here was an option before nothing has been changed or added what so ever.

Disgraceful to the nth degree IMO.

Regards

Edited October 31, 2018 by garyk

[fforest1]

4 minutes ago, garyk said:

With all due respect. 114 pages on this thread with only one piece of information. That is the American Embassy will stop issuing letters.

Personally I think it is disgraceful that TI has not responded to this in any way shape or form. 

Extremely poor way to do business, and a lack of respect for the expat community is appalling IMO.

 

Agreed....But based on the past they seem to really like things unclear and murky......One office has one policy another office has a different policy....One officer says one thing and a different officer says the opposite. 

 

Man this is fun stuff....Make the farang crazy....Have a few laughs get more kickbacks and tips....

 

 

[newatthis]

10 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Disagree on all of it. 

You think other governments would have resolved it faster?  I sure don´t.

I am sure they are trying to figure things out.

As the 114 pages show, there are many opinions and offered solutions to this issue.

It is not a quick decision and the fact they are taking time makes me think they are trying to get it right.

 

Sorry, but what makes you think that any embassy or the Thai Immigration read ThaiVisa?

[garyk]

3 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

Agreed....But based on the past they seem to really like things unclear and murky......One office has one policy another office has a different policy....One officer says one thing and a different officer says the opposite. 

 

Man this is fun stuff....Make the farang crazy....Have a few laughs get more kickbacks and tips....

 

 

Haha, could not agree more. 

 

[marcusarelus]

5 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

Agreed....But based on the past they seem to really like things unclear and murky......One office has one policy another office has a different policy....One officer says one thing and a different officer says the opposite. 

 

Man this is fun stuff....Make the farang crazy....Have a few laughs get more kickbacks and tips....

Thai Airways will discipline two staff members over the first class seating controversy last week that deeply embarrassed the Thai flag carrier.

 

In time we will hear the same about Immigration.  Obviously bad PR no excuse for it and someone will be found to take the blame. 

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, newatthis said:

Sorry, but what makes you think that any embassy or the Thai Immigration read ThaiVisa?

American embassy wardens do. 

[fforest1]

11 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Disagree on all of it. 

You think other governments would have resolved it faster?  I sure don´t.

I am sure they are trying to figure things out.

As the 114 pages show, there are many opinions and offered solutions to this issue.

It is not a quick decision and the fact they are taking time makes me think they are trying to get it right.

 

makes me think they are trying to get it right.

 

You must be joking.......

Take the 10 year retirement visa.....They worked on that bastard for over a year....There were thousands of comments on Thai Visa ripping that visa to shreds...

There were 100s and 100s of constructive comments on how to make that visa better...

 

So what changed in the 12 to 18 months they were working on it?...Absolutely nothing.. 

 

The 10 year visa ended up being as much of a turd as the day it was announced.....

[bkk6060]

9 minutes ago, newatthis said:

Sorry, but what makes you think that any embassy or the Thai Immigration read ThaiVisa?

Probably some do.

But, that was not my point.

I am sure not one person sits down and makes this decision.

This place is not totally archaic I bet they are having discussions and talking about options just like we have done here.

[esqy]

More dismal news about recurring paperwork for those individuals who will keep more than $10,000 in a foreign bank account and file US income taxes. 

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/report-of-foreign-bank-and-financial-accounts-fbar

 

 

[Pib]

3 minutes ago, esqy said:

More dismal news about recurring paperwork for those individuals who will keep more than $10,000 in a foreign bank account and file US income taxes. 

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/report-of-foreign-bank-and-financial-accounts-fbar

Not new news....the FBAR requirement has been required for decades.  It's easy and fast to submit your yearly FBAR if you are required to submit one.  All done online with a simple form you can fill-out offline and then upload at the specific FBAR treasury website....easy....been doing it for years. Old news.

[onera1961]

1 hour ago, JimmyJ said:

I don't know if this is the case with him, but some US ATM cards do not charge foreign ATM fees and reimburse if the foreign bank charges an ATM fee.

Charles Schwab ATM card reimburses ATM fees. Besides, that I don't know any other US banks. can you name a few. I have ATM cards for all major US banks like Citi (no fee at their ATMs in Bangkok), Capital One, BofA, Chase, Ally,