Australia joins the UK and USA with withdrawal of income verification

[HappyAndRich]

28 minutes ago, sambum said:

 

Sarcasm? Arrogant and selfish more like! "I am doing more than great" says it all about you. Your "I'm all right Jack" attitude sums your attitude to others less fortunate than yourself completely.

 

Some of us have worked hard all our lives, and by looking after our families (and paying for estranged children to go through University in my case) have not been able to save your "micro" amount, knowing in our hearts that we have done the best we can, and taken our responsibilities on board, to our own financial detriment. 

 

We manage to "get by" on our pension(s), and up until now have managed quite well (by our standards - not yours), but now that the goalposts have been moved, the last thing we want is for smart "let them eat cake" type comments from people like yourself who brag openly about their prosperity, and how clever they are by making plans for the future.

 

I'm going for a cup of tea now, and I'll leave you to ponder what it's like for the "poor people" over your G & T and tiffin.

And if not have the means needed, maybe retirement in a foreign country isn´t for everybody. Same like Tiger Woods can make millions on playing golf, and I don´t even know how to hold the golf club.

[HappyAndRich]

58 minutes ago, tropo said:

Just curious. What simple operation costs 3 million baht?... and more to the point, what is worth paying 3 million for in a Thai hospital that would assure a long and happy life post op for an elderly expat? I'd rather just say my goodbyes and give the money to my wife. Even very rich people die.

You have a heart of gold.

[cyberfarang]

2 hours ago, muffy said:

So why can't you take proof of income and show Thai immigration ?

Because so-called proof of incomes can be falsified and Thai immigration are now insisting on applicants producing proof of incomes certified by their embassies for credibility.

 

What the embassies are saying; is that they are not prepared to investigate the sources of incomes and therefore will not hold the responsibility of certifying applicants incomes for these reasons. They also refuse to participate in providing a service that could involve being accomplices to fraud if the proof of incomes have been falsified.

 

Does this answer your question?

[sambum]

36 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Plus you usually find that they are not that well off as they claim they are. We have friends and one of them has this type of attitude but it was funny when his wife came to borrow some money for him to get his car fixed because he did not have any

Yes indeed! I know a few like that - Thais as well as farangs, and they usually get their comeuppance sooner or later. My ex Thai landlord was the same, and had to send his wife round (Not him - "face" thing!)to ask for the rent early because he couldn't pay the electric bill!

[Psychic]

I have mentioned this on the other thread in a slightly different way but I'll say it again.

 

I brought about 5 million baht here to buy land and build a home in the full realization I would never own the land.

 

I furnished it and improved the land at a cost of approximately, I'd guess, another 1 million baht.

 

I brought another 1 million in to buy a vehicle, plus motorbikes etc.

 

All from accounts that paid vastly more than anything available in Thailand.

 

Because I planned in taking my last breath in that house with my wife.

 

I was willing to deal with the nonsense of reporting every 3 months like a criminal, supplying a 3 inch pile of redundant paperwork every year to extend what amounts to a "visitor's visa", paying for the privilege of visiting my native country.

 

And in return I was told by Thailand's government that if I could show a certain income level, not one baht less, I would be allowed to stay in Thailand with my wife, put our child through university.

 

The rules of the game were that I would simply show adequate income and we would all just get along.

 

Realistically, living a normal, I'd guess it would be classified " middle class life" here as an aging couple we don't need anywhere near 40,000 baht a month to live.

 

We don't go to bars, our homemade food is cheaper and better than going to restaurants. 

 

If we want to party, being part of the social fabric we will do it at our home or visit friends.

 

It'd be nice if owning property and earning multiples of a Thai person's wage would somehow lead to some kind of permanent residence. If that included paying into a medical plan I'd be happy to.

 

But again, as has come up frequently, I need to either self insure or risk being cut off by private insurance companies.

 

But I don't need to keep massive funds here. Personally I have more than 7 million baht available on credit cards and could transfer at least another 3 million if I had to.

 

I am neither the "money means nothing to me" type on this thread or the "destitute falang" some think hangs around every corner.

 

I'm probably like most affected fairly well suited to life here.

 

I have a private pension plan from early retirement that easily meets the requirements.

 

I have low monetary thresholds for what I need to live here based on my lifestyle.

 

I have investments that garner decent yields every year in my native country that seem unavailable to me here and when necessary I was going to draw on them for things like a pool and a new car.

 

That is simply not going to happen anymore. I am not going to sink significant amounts of money into this country.

 

Because, in my opinion, they have reneged on a contract we both agreed to no matter how absurd I thought the conditions were.

 

I was told I needed to show a certain income level. I am willing to do what they require to show that level of income. I will allow them to access my tax information online.

 

Apparently that is not an option.

 

I'm not going anywhere. My life, my home and my family is here.

 

But I am not putting a dime more than I have to into the Thai economy.

 

Because they broke the contract.

 

I'll put the lump sum into a Thai bank and I'll put most of the withdrawals into my wife's account.

 

If foreign transfers aren't necessary, we'll move them back.

 

If that's a problem, I'll move more down, it was all going to her anyway.

 

I'm fortunate enough to be able to do that.

 

Some can't. They made a life here and expected the rules to stay the same.

 

But here's an important difference.

 

I, personally, knew 4-5 people who, to be honest were a little jealous when I came here.

 

They weren't coming here to marry and buy property when they asked me if Thailand was a good place to retire. You know, rent a 20/30K place by the ocean and live well on 100,000 baht.

 

I told them, sure. The bureaucracy is a bit of a bitch but otherwise life is good.

 

Now what do I tell them?

 

You got to sink tens of thousands of dollars into a Thai bank, report like a criminal every 3 months, tell the government every time you go stay in a friend's house, fill out paperwork to renew every year  and pay money every time you want to visit home.

 

No, I don't.

 

I say look at Mexico.

 

My buddy stays in Cabo (true he stays cheap). Beer's cheaper, market food's the same, beaches are clean, humidity is nonexistent, get a 5 year visa and come and go as you wish, a 1st world country is an hour away.

 

As I started this long rant by saying, I think I am typical of those I know of married "Falangs" in this country.

 

If you want to go back 10 years in bank statements you'll find I have fulfilled the 400,000 many times over.

 

Probably enough to take me from this mortal coil.

 

To me this is not about the money every month or the ability to fund a one time deposit, it is about a basic breach of faith.

 

The Thai government can do as they wish. As I am constantly reminded, even with family and roots and a social network, I am only "a guest".

 

No matter how long I stay here with the same wife, in the same house, contributing to the same neighbourhood...I just might be a cheat, working the system, taking advantage of poor Thai women to stay in this blessed country.

 

Well I like most long married " falangs" am not.

 

This is my home. The people I love most live here.

 

I do what I have to to play your bureaucratic, nonsensical game so I can stay with them.

 

I am the proverbial "small potato".

 

But you know those 4-5 people I knew who were thinking of retiring to Thailand.

 

They're not doing that anymore.

 

That 20-30 million baht each..100-150 million baht total over decades from me..small potato...isn't coming here anymore.

 

Multiply that by a few hundred thousand and it begins to look significant.

 

Not to mention I have friends come visit.

 

Then we do go to bars and restaurants.

 

The " guy with good ideas" I think has come up with another winner.

 

This is where they send someone home and say "come up with something" on Friday night and report on Monday with your "good idea".

 

Like no riding in the back of pickups.

 

Apparently, " looking busy" is more important than actually making sense here.

 

But this "good idea" is really going to hurt.

 

And since they are dealing with foreign government agencies it is not going to be as easy to ignore as a Royal Thai Policeman waving through a pickup with 10 children in the bed.

 

As always, we wait in anticipation for clarification.

 

Rant over.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2018 by Psychic

[cyberfarang]

20 minutes ago, Psychic said:

Invested mentioned this on the other thread in a slightly different way but I'll say it again.

 

I brought about 5 million baht here to buy land and build a home in the full retaliation I would never own the land.

 

I furnished it and improved the land at a cost of approximately, I'd guess, another 1 million baht.

 

I brought another 1 million in to buy a vehicle, plus motorbikes etc.

 

All from accounts that paid vastly more than anything available in Thailand.

 

Because I planned in taking my last breath in that house with my wife.

 

I was willing to deal with the nonsense of reporting every 3 months like a criminal, supplying a 3 inch pile of redundant paperwork every year to extend what amounts to a "visitor's visa", paying for the privilege of visiting my native country.

 

And in return I was told by Thailand's government that if I could show a certain income level, not one baht less, I would be allowed to stay in Thailand with my wife, put our child through university.

 

The rules of the game were that I would simply show adequate income and we would all just get along.

 

Realistically, living a normal, I'd guess it would be classified " middle class life" here as an aging couple we don't need anywhere near 40,000 baht a month to live.

 

We don't go to bars, our homemade food is cheaper and better than going to restaurants. 

 

If we want to party, being part of the social fabric we will do it at our home or visit friends.

 

It'd be nice if owning property and earning multiples of a Thai person's wage would somehow lead to some kind of permanent residence. If that included paying into a medical plan I'd be happy to.

 

But again, as has come up frequently, I need to either self insure or risk being cut off by private insurance companies.

 

But I don't need to keep massive funds here. Personally I have more than 7 million baht available on credit cards and could transfer at least another 3 million if I had to.

 

I am neither the "money means nothing to me" type on this thread or the "destitute falang" some think hangs around every corner.

 

I'm probably like most affected fairly well suited to life here.

 

I have a private pension plan from early retirement that easily meets the requirements.

 

I have low monetary thresholds for what I need to live here based on my lifestyle.

 

I have investments that garner decent yields every year in my native country that seem unavailable to me here and when necessary I was going to draw on them for things like a pool and a new car.

 

That is simply not going to happen anymore. I am not going to sink significant amounts of money into this country.

 

Because, in my opinion, they have reneged on a contract we both agreed to no matter how absurd I thought the conditions were.

 

I was told I needed to show a certain income level. I am willing to do what they require to show that level of income. I will allow them to access my tax information online.

 

Apparently that is not an option.

 

I'm not going anywhere. My life, my home and my family is here.

 

But I am not putting a dime more than I have to into the Thai economy.

 

Because they broke the contract.

 

I'll put the lump sum into a Thai bank and I'll put most of the withdrawals into my wife's account.

 

If foreign transfers aren't necessary, we'll move them back.

 

If that's a problem, I'll move more down it was all going to her anyway.

 

I'm fortunate enough to be able to do that.

 

Some can't. They made a life here and expected the rules to stay the same.

 

But here's an important difference.

 

I, personally, knew 4-5 people who, to be honest were a little jealous.

 

They weren't coming here to marry and buy property when they asked me if Thailand was a good place to retire. You know, rent a 20/30K place by the ocean and live well on 100,000 baht.

 

I told them, sure. The bureaucracy is a bit of a bitch but otherwise life is good.

 

Now what do I tell them?

 

You got to sink tens of thousands of dollars into a Thai bank, report like a criminal every 3 months, tell the government every time you go stay in a friend's house, fill out paperwork to renew every year  and pay money every time you want to visit home.

 

No, I don't.

 

I say look at Mexico.

 

My buddy stays in Cabo (true he stays cheap). Beer's cheaper, market food's the same, beaches are clean, humidity is nonexistent, get a 5 year visa and cine and go as you wish, a 1st world country is an hour away.

 

As I started this long rant by saying, I think I am typical of those I know of married "Falangs" in this country.

 

If you want to go back 10 years in bank statements you'll find I have fulfilled the 400,000 many times over.

 

Probably enough to take me from this mortal coil.

 

To me this is not about the money every month or the ability to fund a one time deposit, it is about a basic breach of faith.

 

The Thai government can do as they wish. As I am constantly reminded, even with family and roots and a social network, I am only "a guest".

 

No matter how long I stay here with the same wife, in the same house, contributing to the same neighbourhood...I just might be a cheat, working the system, taking advantage of poor Thai women to stay in this blessed country.

 

Well I like most long married " falangs" am not.

 

This is my home. The people I love most live here.

 

I do what I have to to play your bureaucratic, nonsensical game so I can stay with them.

 

I am the proverbial "small potato".

 

But you know those 4-5 people I knew who were thinking of retiring to Thailand.

 

They're not doing that anymore.

 

That 20-30 million baht each..100-150 million baht total over decades from me..small potato...isn't coming here anymore.

 

Multiply that by a few hundred thousand and it begins to look significant.

 

Not to mention I have friends come visit.

 

Then we do go to bars and restaurants.

 

The " guy with good ideas" I think has come up with another winner.

 

This is where they send someone home and say "come up with something" on Friday night and report on Monday with your "good idea".

 

Like no riding in the back of pickups.

 

Apparently, " looking busy" is more important than actually making sense here.

 

But this "good idea" is really going to hurt.

 

And since they are dealing with foreign government agencies it is not going to be as easy to ignore as a Royal Thai Policeman waving through a pickup with 10 children in the bed.

 

As always, we wait in anticipation for clarification.

 

Rant over.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You people absolutely amaze me. You really just don`t get it.

 

You as a westerner are not allowed to purchase such land in Thailand unless falling under the policies and with strict approval of the BOI (Thailand Board of Investment). If as I assume you have bought this land in your Thai wife`s name, then under Thai law it has to be with her money. This is one of the many tricks the Thai authorities are trying to clamp down on. 

 

Legally under Thai law you own nothing and therefore you have to fall under the same requirements as applicants married to Thai spouses or retirees.

 

It really gets to me that you and others like you place investments into Thailand that are not wanted, then expect immigration to take what you have invested into consideration and give you some kind of flexibility regarding the rules. 

 

Back in our countries no one who is sane would ever invest thousand and thousand of dollars into something in someone else`s name purely based on trust.

 

So what exactly do you expect and how exactly do you believe you`re being treated unfairly?

[gaviny]

I have mentioned this on the other thread in a slightly different way but I'll say it again.
 
I brought about 5 million baht here to buy land and build a home in the full realization I would never own the land.
 
I furnished it and improved the land at a cost of approximately, I'd guess, another 1 million baht.
 
I brought another 1 million in to buy a vehicle, plus motorbikes etc.
 
All from accounts that paid vastly more than anything available in Thailand.
 
Because I planned in taking my last breath in that house with my wife.
 
I was willing to deal with the nonsense of reporting every 3 months like a criminal, supplying a 3 inch pile of redundant paperwork every year to extend what amounts to a "visitor's visa", paying for the privilege of visiting my native country.
 
And in return I was told by Thailand's government that if I could show a certain income level, not one baht less, I would be allowed to stay in Thailand with my wife, put our child through university.
 
The rules of the game were that I would simply show adequate income and we would all just get along.
 
Realistically, living a normal, I'd guess it would be classified " middle class life" here as an aging couple we don't need anywhere near 40,000 baht a month to live.
 
We don't go to bars, our homemade food is cheaper and better than going to restaurants. 
 
If we want to party, being part of the social fabric we will do it at our home or visit friends.
 
It'd be nice if owning property and earning multiples of a Thai person's wage would somehow lead to some kind of permanent residence. If that included paying into a medical plan I'd be happy to.
 
But again, as has come up frequently, I need to either self insure or risk being cut off by private insurance companies.
 
But I don't need to keep massive funds here. Personally I have more than 7 million baht available on credit cards and could transfer at least another 3 million if I had to.
 
I am neither the "money means nothing to me" type on this thread or the "destitute falang" some think hangs around every corner.
 
I'm probably like most affected fairly well suited to life here.
 
I have a private pension plan from early retirement that easily meets the requirements.
 
I have low monetary thresholds for what I need to live here based on my lifestyle.
 
I have investments that garner decent yields every year in my native country that seem unavailable to me here and when necessary I was going to draw on them for things like a pool and a new car.
 
That is simply not going to happen anymore. I am not going to sink significant amounts of money into this country.
 
Because, in my opinion, they have reneged on a contract we both agreed to no matter how absurd I thought the conditions were.
 
I was told I needed to show a certain income level. I am willing to do what they require to show that level of income. I will allow them to access my tax information online.
 
Apparently that is not an option.
 
I'm not going anywhere. My life, my home and my family is here.
 
But I am not putting a dime more than I have to into the Thai economy.
 
Because they broke the contract.
 
I'll put the lump sum into a Thai bank and I'll put most of the withdrawals into my wife's account.
 
If foreign transfers aren't necessary, we'll move them back.
 
If that's a problem, I'll move more down, it was all going to her anyway.
 
I'm fortunate enough to be able to do that.
 
Some can't. They made a life here and expected the rules to stay the same.
 
But here's an important difference.
 
I, personally, knew 4-5 people who, to be honest were a little jealous when I came here.
 
They weren't coming here to marry and buy property when they asked me if Thailand was a good place to retire. You know, rent a 20/30K place by the ocean and live well on 100,000 baht.
 
I told them, sure. The bureaucracy is a bit of a bitch but otherwise life is good.
 
Now what do I tell them?
 
You got to sink tens of thousands of dollars into a Thai bank, report like a criminal every 3 months, tell the government every time you go stay in a friend's house, fill out paperwork to renew every year  and pay money every time you want to visit home.
 
No, I don't.
 
I say look at Mexico.
 
My buddy stays in Cabo (true he stays cheap). Beer's cheaper, market food's the same, beaches are clean, humidity is nonexistent, get a 5 year visa and come and go as you wish, a 1st world country is an hour away.
 
As I started this long rant by saying, I think I am typical of those I know of married "Falangs" in this country.
 
If you want to go back 10 years in bank statements you'll find I have fulfilled the 400,000 many times over.
 
Probably enough to take me from this mortal coil.
 
To me this is not about the money every month or the ability to fund a one time deposit, it is about a basic breach of faith.
 
The Thai government can do as they wish. As I am constantly reminded, even with family and roots and a social network, I am only "a guest".
 
No matter how long I stay here with the same wife, in the same house, contributing to the same neighbourhood...I just might be a cheat, working the system, taking advantage of poor Thai women to stay in this blessed country.
 
Well I like most long married " falangs" am not.
 
This is my home. The people I love most live here.
 
I do what I have to to play your bureaucratic, nonsensical game so I can stay with them.
 
I am the proverbial "small potato".
 
But you know those 4-5 people I knew who were thinking of retiring to Thailand.
 
They're not doing that anymore.
 
That 20-30 million baht each..100-150 million baht total over decades from me..small potato...isn't coming here anymore.
 
Multiply that by a few hundred thousand and it begins to look significant.
 
Not to mention I have friends come visit.
 
Then we do go to bars and restaurants.
 
The " guy with good ideas" I think has come up with another winner.
 
This is where they send someone home and say "come up with something" on Friday night and report on Monday with your "good idea".
 
Like no riding in the back of pickups.
 
Apparently, " looking busy" is more important than actually making sense here.
 
But this "good idea" is really going to hurt.
 
And since they are dealing with foreign government agencies it is not going to be as easy to ignore as a Royal Thai Policeman waving through a pickup with 10 children in the bed.
 
As always, we wait in anticipation for clarification.
 
Rant over.
 
 
 
 
 
 

I loathe to criticize anyone because each to their own but I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.You are in a fortunate position to just deposit 800000 Baht in a Thai Bank and use 40000 monthly for 9 months and just top up 3 months before extension.90days reporting is just a irritant we have to put up with.

Sent from my Redmi Note 6 Pro using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[totally thaied up]

21 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

You as a westerner are not allowed to purchase such land in Thailand unless falling under the policies and with strict approval of the BOI (Thailand Board of Investment). If as I assume you have bought this land in your Thai wife`s name, then under Thai law it has to be with her money. This is one of the many tricks the Thai authorities are trying to clamp down on. 

 

Just about every house would be illegal here in Thailand from those that are married to a farang. Just about all my mates bought their wifes a house who are married. 

 

Yet in some cases, just like mine, my wife owned her house outright (no loans owing) before we married. I had nothing to do with it but it did not stop me from adding another 400K in making the house farang friendly. It was a combination of her house and my money. Nothing dodgy there but I know it gives me no rights and why should it? It was her house after all and I did not pay a cent for it.

 

27 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

Back in our countries no one who is sane would ever invest thousand and thousand of dollars into something in someone else`s name purely based on trust.

Because she is my wife and I got to trust someone. If I cannot trust her to a certain degree, what is the use of being married? In Australia, just live with someone for six months and you're going to start wishing you didn't due to our laws of cohabitation. 

[sambum]

1 hour ago, HappyAndRich said:

And if not have the means needed, maybe retirement in a foreign country isn´t for everybody. Same like Tiger Woods can make millions on playing golf, and I don´t even know how to hold the golf club.

How many times do you need to be told? We HAVE the means needed - we HAVE the 800,000 baht a year income previously covered by a letter from our Embassies, but Thai Immigration have moved the goalposts and changed the way that they apply the rules. Our circumstances have not changed, but all you can say is virtually "If you can't afford to live here you shouldn't be here" 

 

And your reference to Tiger Woods apart from being totally off topic makes no sense whatsoever - is he thinking of retiring here? Maybe you should ask him next time you are "rubbing shoulders"!!! 

 

 

[marcusarelus]

8 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

Just about every house would be illegal here in Thailand from those that are married to a farang. Just about all my mates bought their wifes a house who are married. 

 

Yet in some cases, just like mine, my wife owned her house outright (no loans owing) before we married. I had nothing to do with it but it did not stop me from adding another 400K in making the house farang friendly. It was a combination of her house and my money. Nothing dodgy there but I know it gives me no rights and why should it? It was her house after all and I did not pay a cent for it.

 

Because she is my wife and I got to trust someone. If I cannot trust her to a certain degree, what is the use of being married? In Australia, just live with someone for six months and you're going to start wishing you didn't due to our laws of cohabitation. 

What makes buying a wife a house illegal? 

[tropo]

1 hour ago, Russell17au said:

Plus you usually find that they are not that well off as they claim they are. We have friends and one of them has this type of attitude but it was funny when his wife came to borrow some money for him to get his car fixed because he did not have any

I agree. You want to impress me, stick at least $10 million on a Thai account. The thing is, wealthy Westerners (not 3 million baht pretenders) would seldom retire in Thailand. It's a place where the non-wealthy HAVE been able to have a decent lifestyle, better than what they could afford at home. If I could put 10's of millions of baht on Thai bank accounts and just forget about it, I wouldn't be here. I'd be back in Australia living it up in a beautiful beach-side condo breathing fresh air, swimming in crystal clear water and walking on pristine, unpolluted beaches.

 

Most of us came to this thread to find out the latest news, only to be side-tracked by people gloating about how wealthy and successful they are.

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, tropo said:

I agree. You want to impress me, stick at least $10 million on a Thai account. The thing is, wealthy Westerners (not 3 million baht pretenders) would seldom retire in Thailand. It's a place where the non-wealthy HAVE been able to have a decent lifestyle, better than what they could afford at home. If I could put 10's of millions of baht on Thai bank accounts and just forget about it, I wouldn't be here. I'd be back in Australia living it up in a beautiful beach-side condo breathing fresh air, swimming in crystal clear water and walking on pristine, unpolluted beaches.

 

Most of us came to this thread to find out the latest news, only to be side-tracked by people gloating about how wealthy and successful they are.

Most of us don't have wives from the Philippines.  I think you may have forgotten that.  My Thai wife and GF have no wish to move to America. 

Edited November 4, 2018 by marcusarelus

[melvinmelvin]

13 minutes ago, gaviny said:

I loathe to criticize anyone because each to their own but I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.You are in a fortunate position to just deposit 800000 Baht in a Thai Bank and use 40000 monthly for 9 months and just top up 3 months before extension.90days reporting is just a irritant we have to put up with.

Sent from my Redmi Note 6 Pro using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I take his rant as a rant from someone who wishes LoS was different from what it is

 

[cyberfarang]

24 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

Just about every house would be illegal here in Thailand from those that are married to a farang. Just about all my mates bought their wifes a house who are married. 

 

Yet in some cases, just like mine, my wife owned her house outright (no loans owing) before we married. I had nothing to do with it but it did not stop me from adding another 400K in making the house farang friendly. It was a combination of her house and my money. Nothing dodgy there but I know it gives me no rights and why should it? It was her house after all and I did not pay a cent for it.

 

Because she is my wife and I got to trust someone. If I cannot trust her to a certain degree, what is the use of being married? In Australia, just live with someone for six months and you're going to start wishing you didn't due to our laws of cohabitation. 

You are saying more or less what I have said.

 

I am in a similar situation to yourself, my now Thai wife owned her land and house here before we met. And I also splashed out a bit of cash for home improvements. 

 

But those who are fool hearted enough to ply loads of cash into something they can never own and something they can never have any jurisdiction over, do so at their own risk and should not expect anything back in return, they still have to abide by the rules of immigration to remain in Thailand. This is the part that many can`t seem to grasp. Where is the logic of investing millions of bahts into something they cannot own and cannot declare, yet not having enough funds in a Thai bank to obtain their visa extensions? Are we really meant to feel sorry for these people?

Edited November 4, 2018 by cyberfarang

[melvinmelvin]

10 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

You are saying more or less what I have said.

 

I am in a similar situation to yourself, my now Thai wife owned her land and house here before we met. And I also splashed out a bit of cash for home improvements. 

 

But those who are fool hearted enough to ply loads of cash into something they can never own and something they can never have any jurisdiction over, do so at their own risk and should not expect anything back in return, they still have to abide by the rules of immigration to remain in Thailand. This is the part that many can`t seem to grasp. Where is the logic of investing millions of bahts into something they cannot own and cannot declare, yet not having enough funds in a Thai bank to obtain their visa extensions? Are we really meant to feel sorry for these people?

 

well,

there are legal arrangements in place so that foreigner can own house and lease land

 

there are also legal arrangments in place so that foreigner can own land in own name,

but that's a lengthy and costly way to go

 

[sambum]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

Most of us don't have wives from the Philippines.  I think you may have forgotten that.  My Thai wife and GF have no wish to move to America. 

1 Who mentioned the Philippines?

2 Who mentioned America?

3 You might have trouble getting your wife AND GF visas anyway!

[sambum]

2 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

Because so-called proof of incomes can be falsified and Thai immigration are now insisting on applicants producing proof of incomes certified by their embassies for credibility.

 

What the embassies are saying; is that they are not prepared to investigate the sources of incomes and therefore will not hold the responsibility of certifying applicants incomes for these reasons. They also refuse to participate in providing a service that could involve being accomplices to fraud if the proof of incomes have been falsified.

 

Does this answer your question?

Might be a good idea to copy the above answer and put it in your "Drafts" folder for future reference - someone is bound to ask the same question again!!!

[Pattaya46]

8 minutes ago, sambum said:

Might be a good idea to copy the above answer and put it in your "Drafts" folder for future reference 

Might be good to also notice than only 3 embassies (on more than 50) have announce to stop providing these letters...

[melvinmelvin]

18 minutes ago, sambum said:

Might be a good idea to copy the above answer and put it in your "Drafts" folder for future reference - someone is bound to ask the same question again!!!

you bet - same question will come up again,

but not sure his answer is very good,

 

I do 800k/bank and have no experience with income verification

 

however, when it comes to CoR, Certificate of Residence,

my embassy  does the following;

I hand them a handwritten piece of paper with my address,

they produce an official embassy doc where it says

 

Mr pip pip, holder of xxx passport nnnnn, has today informed

the xxx embassy that he resides at the following address

xxxx

xxxxx

xxxxx

xxxxx

 

embassy happy (no commitment)  - me happy - Thai authorities happy

 

surely it must be possible to construct smth similar re income

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2018 by melvinmelvin

[cyberfarang]

23 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

you bet - same question will come up again,

but not sure his answer is very good,

 

I do 800k/bank and have no experience with income verification

 

however, when it comes to CoR, Certificate of Residence,

my embassy  does the following;

I hand them a handwritten piece of paper with my address,

they produce an official embassy doc where it says

 

Mr pip pip, holder of xxx passport nnnnn, has today informed

the xxx embassy that he resides at the following address

xxxx

xxxxx

xxxxx

xxxxx

 

embassy happy (no commitment)  - me happy - Thai authorities happy

 

surely it must be possible to construct smth similar re income

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let me explain this for Mr pip pip.

 

For the time being the embassies are only asking to see some kinds of documents that show residential address in Thailand for issuing of a certificate of residence. This is because Thai immigration are PRESENTLY satisfied with this. But if Thai immigration decide they want to see more substantial proof of residential address, then the embassies may stop issuing certificates of residence too.

 

I really should start charging fees for my explanatory posts.

[fforest1]

37 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

Let me explain this for Mr pip pip.

 

For the time being the embassies are only asking to see some kinds of documents that show residential address in Thailand for issuing of a certificate of residence. This is because Thai immigration are PRESENTLY satisfied with this. But if Thai immigration decide they want to see more substantial proof of residential address, then the embassies may stop issuing certificates of residence too.

 

I really should start charging fees for my explanatory posts.

Sure lots of things COULD happen...Like who says they are required to grandfather the 800,000? Nobody....
It will be hilarious to hear a smug poster say

(Well if you can not put 1,600,000 in the bank for your 1 year extension you need to pack up and go home,because 800,000 does not cut it any more).....

 

For some strange reason some posters on here want to see as many farang gone from Thailand as possible except for them self of-course...

[Psychic]

3 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

You people absolutely amaze me. You really just don`t get it.

 

You as a westerner are not allowed to purchase such land in Thailand unless falling under the policies and with strict approval of the BOI (Thailand Board of Investment). If as I assume you have bought this land in your Thai wife`s name, then under Thai law it has to be with her money. This is one of the many tricks the Thai authorities are trying to clamp down on. 

 

Legally under Thai law you own nothing and therefore you have to fall under the same requirements as applicants married to Thai spouses or retirees.

 

It really gets to me that you and others like you place investments into Thailand that are not wanted, then expect immigration to take what you have invested into consideration and give you some kind of flexibility regarding the rules. 

 

Back in our countries no one who is sane would ever invest thousand and thousand of dollars into something in someone else`s name purely based on trust.

 

So what exactly do you expect and how exactly do you believe you`re being treated unfairly?

Ah you see the  basic problem.

I am NOT a scammer.

 

I know I own nothing under Thai law regarding property.

 

This isn't an "investment" I am not trying to make money.

 

It is basically the opposite. I'm putting money, via a land and house purchase where I have no real expectation of gain because I have no real property rights. Without significant legal matters I have basically ceded all property to a Thai citizen.

 

Call it love, call it trust, call it stupid.. I don't really care what you call it.

 

What I don't call it is an "investment" in Thailand...cuz if you want to get all economic on me (and you really don't) my real rate of return is less than zero.

 

Sometimes you just do things for like family and stuff.

 

Try it some time.

 

Makes you all girly and happy and smily.

 

Dick

[Kadilo]

1 hour ago, Psychic said:

 

 

Makes you all girly and happy and smily.

 

Dick

Made me smile that. 

[melvinmelvin]

3 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

Let me explain this for Mr pip pip.

 

For the time being the embassies are only asking to see some kinds of documents that show residential address in Thailand for issuing of a certificate of residence. This is because Thai immigration are PRESENTLY satisfied with this. But if Thai immigration decide they want to see more substantial proof of residential address, then the embassies may stop issuing certificates of residence too.

 

I really should start charging fees for my explanatory posts.

not worth anything that explanation of yours, the point is well understood years ago

 

 

 

I still think that some of this boil down to wordsmithing - there may be a solution here that both embassies and local authorities can live with

[HappyAndRich]

7 hours ago, sambum said:

How many times do you need to be told? We HAVE the means needed - we HAVE the 800,000 baht a year income previously covered by a letter from our Embassies, but Thai Immigration have moved the goalposts and changed the way that they apply the rules. Our circumstances have not changed, but all you can say is virtually "If you can't afford to live here you shouldn't be here" 

 

And your reference to Tiger Woods apart from being totally off topic makes no sense whatsoever - is he thinking of retiring here? Maybe you should ask him next time you are "rubbing shoulders"!!! 

 

 

You do not seem to understand what I mean and are talking about. For me the rules regarding how you show income is totally irrelevant. What I am talking about is the reckless risks so many people are taking by moving to another country without having enough saving for a rainy day. In my opinion you just can´t move to another country without having the minimum of 1M baht or equivalent in other currency.

As of now Thai immigration have not changed anything. 3 major embassies have stopped issuing income letters, due to that they now has the legal pressure to guarantee that the amount written on them are true. They can´t or will not do that. Blame your embassies, and not the Thai Immigration.

 

Yet nothing is changed and there are no official statement of any changes or Immigration. I believe they will sort it out to the best. Otherwise it´s just to show the money for the ones who wish to stay. Can sound hard, but it´s the fact.

You have one way of looking at it, I have another. You won´t change, and I won´t change. Let´s leave it with that.

[soalbundy]

3 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

not worth anything that explanation of yours, the point is well understood years ago

 

 

 

I still think that some of this boil down to wordsmithing - there may be a solution here that both embassies and local authorities can live with

Correct, 100% verification isn't possible anyway, you can raise the bar but it still wont be 100% ie verification isn't possible. It comes down to trust, certifying you have seen documents whose authenticity you cant verify but which in all probability are genuine. The wording sets the tone of the music, a caveat turns Beethoven's 5th into Heavy metal rock music.Strangely enough, in this corrupt, greedy desperate world we live in just about everything functions on trust. 

[cleverman]

Thanks to a Bangkok Post article by Fred Prager we will get clarification of what TI will accept instead of all the what ifs.

[malt25]

50 minutes ago, cleverman said:

Thanks to a Bangkok Post article by Fred Prager we will get clarification of what TI will accept instead of all the what ifs.

Good news that some "official" clarification is on the way. Unfortunately no bangkok Post, English version available locally. I trust someone will post on here what the details are once available.

[cleopatra2]

1 hour ago, cleverman said:

Thanks to a Bangkok Post article by Fred Prager we will get clarification of what TI will accept instead of all the what ifs.

Article or opinion piece

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, cleverman said:

Thanks to a Bangkok Post article by Fred Prager we will get clarification of what TI will accept instead of all the what ifs.

Link ?