Why are expats so bad in Thai?

[watcharacters]

14 hours ago, scorecard said:

I've noted this also and IMHO you have hit the nail on the head: laziness, a feeling of superiority etc.

 

Superiority; I came across a guy from Utah 20 years ago in Bkk, he had already been here some 15 years, he was then an older man, a doctor of medicine who had inherited wealth, retired and came to Thailand to live, he was arrogant, superior and rude to everybody, all day.

 

He died about 5 years back. In all that time he had not learned even very simple Thai, couldn't count 1 to 10 in Thai, didn't know the days of the week in Thai, and he stubbornly refused to learn or listen to anything let alone learn Thai language.  

 

A couple of times I got into Bkk taxis with him, he would yell the destination in copious complex English to the driver then abuse driver when he didn't understand. The second time I witnessed him doing this I got out and walked away and avoided him thenceforth.

 

He did the same in restaurants, make an order (in English) then 2 minutes later change the order, then explain something about dish two must come to the table no later than 5 to 6 minutes later than dish 1, etc.

 

Then when it all went wrong he would eat everything and refuse to pay the bill and he was a big guy and somewhat intimidating. 

 

He was a gay man, he started relationships again and again with young Thai men who spoke zero English and it would quickly turn into abuse because the new bf didn't understand English and the American spoke zero Thai.

 

His comment was always 'why should I learn Thai, these people should all learn English'.

 

He was found dead on the floor after falling down the stairs drunk. He had told an American acquaintance earlier that he had a brother in Utah but they had not spoken for decades. The police and embassy officials couldn't find a will nor any cash or bankbooks etc.

 

The embassy found a phone number for the brother in Utah, called him but the response was "I got tired of his arrogance and abuse years ago, I don't want to be involved in any way and I'm certainly not going to send any funds to pay for his funeral etc., and please don't call me again".

 

An attempt to get some donations for a simple funeral produced zero Baht, he was eventually given a paupers cremation.

 

 

 

 

It sounds to me like your doctor friend was unpleasant whether he spoke Thai or not.

 

[alex8912]

49 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Having coffee and a danish yesterday.  I have a small phone that is connected with bluetooth to my tablet to answer calls.  I finished and went to the restroom.  Upon returning I noticed that my small Sony handset was missing from my case.  I asked the cashier in Thai, "I lost my small black phone at a table back there."  She went and talked to the waitress and returned with my phone.  I have 4962 more cases of anecdotal evidence evidence I could share but that's really off topic.  Not attempting to learn Thai when living in Thailand is just plain stupid.  Why are expats so bad at Thai?  I guess because there are a lot of stupid expats.  Exceptions of course for physical handicaps.  

I think you make a good point but I also think your Thai may be pretty good. What I found EXTREMELY useful in Thai , even though it may seem pretty basic, is that I learn small sentences. Just four or five words. Many foreigners here just keep saying one Thai word over and over ( usually in a Northern England or American or whatever accent) As we all know ( even the more advanced speakers) is you can say just one word and four different Thai people can’t understand that one word ( because tone or pronunciation isn’t perfect ) then one of them might get it and you scratch your head thinking you just said it perfectly.  When a little string of words is used instead it really helps with Thais understanding you. Then 2 out of 5 words can be a little off and you are still understood. Many especially older expats give up because their one word is not understood. 

[billd766]

46 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

I find that with simple vocabulary, hand gestures, Google translate and a lot of smiling I get everywhere I want to go and get done everything I want to do.  I make an effort, and I think Thai folks appreciate it, especially as its a bit funny and I find that Thai folk are not only easily amused, but have a great sense of humour.  Im going to be here for 6 months at a clip and at my age, half deaf as I am, Im never going to be fluent and probably wouldnt speak better than a two year old even if I had classes. Nor will I have a deep conversation with a Thai girl about world politics. My good Thai friends who I can talk to speak English. So as I say, me falang pwompwee mak, rawn mak, cohla khop kun khap...oh khap, hong nam khap? khap khun khap! Pad Krapow moo, khap, two eggs dude, fist bump..finish!

Sometimes I find it easier to type the English word(s) and paste them, do a Google translate to Thai and paste that, back to Google in English and search for a photo of what I like and paste that.

 

Then print it out and hand it to the sales person.

 

That works about 90% of the time.

 

Just lately in some places the sales staff often get their mobiles out, go to a translation program and get the response in Thai.

 

That works pretty well too.

[rumak]

22 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

That’s a mighty big bubble you live in. But best of luck. 

actually, that is probably the MAIN reason that "expats"  do not speak thai well.   My guess is that the vast majority live in tourist areas (Bkk, Pattaya, Phuket, Chiangmai, Samui.....)  and mostly hang out with english speaking friends or thais that speak english ( even the fetching BGs).    So after the kop kun kap and tii nai and sawadee krap....what is there to know?   If they get married, again it is the wife that usually speaks or learns to speak english.

The reason so few on TV seem to think it is not "almost impossible" to learn thai is that only a small percentage have tried dilligently.......and often it is those that go to live outside of the cities and hear a lot of thai on a daily basis who can make progress.  Hell, thai can't be that hard as every thai child can speak it !     Kidding aside, language is best learned when hearing and then attempting to repeat what the ear hears (just like a child).  Obviously, when the ear is hearing english ( or german or ?) almost all the time, learning another language is very difficult.  The same goes for Thais learning english..... their one hour a day of class will never get them past  good morning, sir.  how are you.    Usually if i ask a student how old are you the answer is.......fine thank you. ! 

  paw leow..... nap time

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by rumak

[ningnong]

3 hours ago, tilaceer said:

In my opinion forget the tonal aspect.

Many use this as an excuse not to learn, but in many cases even Thais do not use them correctly. In many cases they have also stopped using classifiers.

At the machine gun pace that Thai is normally spoken it is almost impossible to include tones, indeed it is the context of the sentence that provides the meaning. Single words, the first word and last word in a sentence are about the only place where you can emphasise a tone.

I can speak fairly well, plus read and write, but as previously mentioned, writing is extremely difficult. My big problem are those Thais who refuse to try and understand you, when it is obvious you are trying to speak their language, (tones not with standing). Living in Isaan, I find them less tolerant, but that might be education related.

Just try...who cares if you think you have ordered rice steamed, but have ordered rice beautiful instead?

In my muang, hardly any farang can communicate in Thai, and the wives/gf's get right annoyed at their laziness and excuses. Now try and learn Isaan...thats tough....

Agree with everything tilaceer said.

 

Too many postors here worrying about the tones. String enough words together and Thais will often understand. It might take a couple of tries before they adjust to the fact you're speaking Thai and then make adjustments for your accent.

 

Maybe an incentive to learn Thai are the studies that suggest learning another language can delay the onset of Alzheimers.

[BritManToo]

18 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

I also experience that sometimes, if you don't hit tones and/or short/long right - you have lost

they (some) couldn't care less trying to make an effort to understand

just not interested or too lazy

 

have had some VERY frustrating experiences in that regard

 

Just pretend you can't understand their English, no matter how good it is.

[balo]

3 hours ago, Pete1980 said:

the script isnt impossible. It takes about 2 weeks to learn an hour per day practice.

And 99% of the time it is pronounced as it is written, unlike English. 

eg I will read a book <reed> i read a book <red>

Four year olds can learn it very easily.

But most retired people are not 4 year olds. I would guess most of the members here are over 50 , and remember something you learned a week earlier can be a lot more challenging. 

 

[dennis123]

I live here 7 years now, am excellent in numbers but when someone asked me in Thai 'where are you from' I had no idea what she said. Pretty bad really that I can't even understand such very basic question.

 

I do admit my memory is terrible, so I think I would have a hard time learning Thai, but the real reason is that I lived for the most part in Pattaya where everyone speaks English and the year that I lived in Buriram I lived a pretty much isolated live after breaking up so there was never any need to speak Thai.

 

I guess the same applies for most people, nearly every Thai in Pattaya speaks English and for the rare one that doesn't we still find a way to communicate with their few words of English and my few words of Thai and some hand symbols.

 

I talk a lot on Line with the father of my deceased friend, he writes in Thai, I write in English, and we both use Google Translate, which sometimes results in some awkward moments but mostly we understand each other.

Edited November 5, 2018 by dennis123

[scorecard]

32 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

It sounds to me like your doctor friend was unpleasant whether he spoke Thai or not.

 

That's true, and to be honest he was just an acquaintance rather than a friend, I met him by accident and I quickly pulled away from him totally as soon as i saw his attitudes and behaviors. 

 

in fact he had no real friends, just a few acquaintances and he milked them in many ways; borrowing money, borrowing vehicles, buying food in local small restaurants and food stalls, then say Mr. XXX (farang) will pay you later today (and probably not even understand by the food people) and then disappear, but he had to keep changing the places he 'bought' because many would just tell him to piss off. 

 

He lived not far from me in Bkk, twice I was in a local small restaurant with other farang. When the doctor walked in he came over quickly and started to pull out a chair to sit down. On both occasions one of the other farang told him clearly to sit elsewhere, followed quickly by the Thai lady who owned the restaurant telling him to leave.

 

But he was was even more unpleasant and abusive to Thai folks who simply had no idea what he was asking for / ranting, in English.

 

IMHO if someone actively decides to not learn the language that's their absolute prerogative but to loudly abuse people because they don't understand another language is IMHO not OK.  

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by scorecard

[HooHaa]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Learning central Thai to try and pickup girls whose first language is essentially Laos, seems a bit futile to me.

Only 33% of the country speak central Thai as a first language, and they ain't the ones with which we interact.

Again nonsense, local dialects and languages exist but news, television, movies and all things official happen in Central Thai including education. 

 

Even in Laos I was able to get by using central Thai, because they too receive Thai TV. 

[bendejo]

15 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Some of them live here for more then 30 years and still can't say more than 30 words.

 

I'm stuck at 29 words, and most of those are body parts, the rest are for actions to be done with said parts. 

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

6 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Just pretend you can't understand their English, no matter how good it is.

 

well,

worse than that this is in "shops" where English is not spoken,

ie kruang yon muu 2 shops, ie engine scrapyards

i want to buy I know what I want

I arrive - dirty clothes - oil / grease patches all over face and legs

dirty hands - torque wrench in one -plastic bag with parts in the other

 

just cannot get through the sound barrier

turns out later after having talked with factotum that I had used couple of words same as vegetables (tones)

 

bloody hell, where is the flexibility and interest in understanding, ?

 

me coming the way I look to a 2nd hand engine store to talk about some vegetable crap? give me a break!

 

[steve73]

1 minute ago, balo said:

But most retired people are not 4 year olds. I would guess most of the members here are over 50 , and remember something you learned a week earlier can be a lot more challenging. 

 

I first visited Thailand for a week at age 45.  I managed to pick up the numbers (upto 1,000 LOL) and a basic smattering of the usual hello, goodbye, and some food dishes, etc. and over the next 2 years of short visits added quite a bit to my vocabulary.

But since living here permanently for the past 12 years, I've not managed to learn much more than that.

 

Partial deafness makes the tones difficult to understand, although I think I speak much more than I can understand (listeners may disagree though..!)

To me there is little consistency between sentences, for no obvious reason, and the guidebooks don't help matters, and as other's have pointed out most Thai speakers want to speak English to practice their own (or at least the ones that actually want to talk at all).  

[BritManToo]

9 minutes ago, HooHaa said:

Again nonsense, local dialects and languages exist but news, television, movies and all things official happen in Central Thai including education. 

 

Strangely enough, I was at CMRU the other day and the lecturer was failing papers submitted by many students for having too many Lanna words in them.

But if you're OK learning a person's second or third language, why central Thai, they ain't chatting with each other in central Thai. And my kid (a second-year student) agreed with me, "Dad, hardly any of my friends can speak central Thai properly"

 

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by BritManToo

[ChristianBlessing]

2 hours ago, Zyxel said:

Most important factor in learning a new language for the majority of us is age:

 

This graphic aptly demonstrates what socio/psycho-linguists generally agree upon; that prior to age 7-8 we acquire language; in subsequent years we learn language (excepting ones home language). The differences between acquiring and learning are not trivial, to which many here can attest. Children appear to have a "language center" or neurological predisposition to acquire a target language, which enables them to embrace that language almost as easily as their first language. That language "switch", however, seems to be disabled beyond age 8.

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

me coming the way I look to a 2nd hand engine store to talk about some vegetable crap? give me a break!

A photo of what you want on your phone works best.

If you don't have it at home, the internet will have a photo you can copy.

[observer90210]

Why are the expats so bad in Thai ? Because the bar stool girls, the hotel escorts and the soapy girls all speak quite good english to understand the requirements at...hand !

[watcharacters]

35 minutes ago, dennis123 said:

I talk a lot on Line with the father of my deceased friend, he writes in Thai, I write in English, and we both use Google Translate, which sometimes results in some awkward moments but mostly we understand each other.

 

I'm not connecting the dots,  I guess.

 

How do you   actually do the Google translate from Line?    Are you using phones and or  laptops?

 

Does an Android phone with a  Line app allow for Google translate?

 

Would you please explain?    I'd like to be able to do that.    I use an SE phone.

 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by watcharacters

[melvinmelvin]

7 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

well,

worse than that this is in "shops" where English is not spoken,

ie kruang yon muu 2 shops, ie engine scrapyards

i want to buy I know what I want

I arrive - dirty clothes - oil / grease patches all over face and legs

dirty hands - torque wrench in one -plastic bag with parts in the other

 

just cannot get through the sound barrier

turns out later after having talked with factotum that I had used couple of words same as vegetables (tones)

 

bloody hell, where is the flexibility and interest in understanding, ?

 

me coming the way I look to a 2nd hand engine store to talk about some vegetable crap? give me a break!

 

 

I have had a few like the one above,

sometimes mai pen rai - sometimes really very upsetting 'cause I'm desperate to buy a few bits and pieces

 

after such I ask taxi driver (who I normally have waiting) to go to nearest karaoke/restaurant/bar

sit down - order a bottle of red/black couple of beers and enjoy a few stiff ones

and wonder what next? what now? 

after te 3rd I decide to stay put in LoS and go home

 

[brewsterbudgen]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

Having coffee and a danish yesterday.  I have a small phone that is connected with bluetooth to my tablet to answer calls.  I finished and went to the restroom.  Upon returning I noticed that my small Sony handset was missing from my case.  I asked the cashier in Thai, "I lost my small black phone at a table back there."  She went and talked to the waitress and returned with my phone.  I have 4962 more cases of anecdotal evidence evidence I could share but that's really off topic.  Not attempting to learn Thai when living in Thailand is just plain stupid.  Why are expats so bad at Thai?  I guess because there are a lot of stupid expats.  Exceptions of course for physical handicaps.  

Are the 4962 more cases you have any more illuminating than the first one you have chosen to share with us? ????

[bendejo]

6 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

But if you're OK learning a person's second or third language, why central Thai, they ain't chatting with each other in central Thai. And my kid (a second-year student) agreed with me, "Dad, hardly any of my friends can speak central Thai properly" 

 

Same in the Arabic-speaking world, where the schools teach classical Arabic.  The thing is NO ONE speaks classical Arabic, every place has it's own form/dialect. 

 

 

[dennis123]

11 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 

I'm not connecting the dots,  I guess.

 

How do  actually do the Google translate from Line?    Are you using phones or laptops?

 

Does an Android phone with a  Line app allow for Google translate?

 

Would you please explain?    I'd like to be able to do that.    I use an SE phone.

 

 

Yes, it took some time to figure out on my phone.

 

You open translate.google.com in Chrome browser so that's a different tab.

 

And then at Line you press your finger on the text for 1-2 seconds and then a copy button pops up.

 

Then switch to Google Translate and you do the same there, press your finger on the input field and a Paste button appears.

 

I use a Samsung.

 

[marcusarelus]

42 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Just pretend you can't understand their English, no matter how good it is.

No wonder they are getting harsh on English speaking expats.  Can't blame them really. 

[scorecard]

12 minutes ago, dennis123 said:

Yes, it took some time to figure out on my phone.

 

You open translate.google.com in Chrome browser so that's a different tab.

 

And then at Line you press your finger on the text for 1-2 seconds and then a copy button pops up.

 

Then switch to Google Translate and you do the same there, press your finger on the input field and a Paste button appears.

 

I use a Samsung.

 

A question; Can any TV folks suggest or recommend an on-line translation site which is better then Google translate? Thanks. 

[Tchooptip]

When I go anywhere for shopping, where explanations are needed sometimes like Homepro/Homemart or the market most of the time I have no problem with my Thai, what surprises me the most is that each time I am told you speak very well and in any case, they understand very well too, but I forget constantly, for instance, the months of the years sometimes I do not remember one or two for a few minutes, not very comfortable when talking. I know the alphabet absolutely by heart, consonants and vowels, in Tesco I can read most labels on the product but not fast enough. However, I still cannot read some words sometimes, due to all the exceptions in grammar, and most of all with the different fonts. In some adverts, I do not even recognise a letter. Sometimes I stop learning everything for a few months, then I start again.

[Thingamabob]

Because it's difficult to get the tones right.

[watcharacters]

14 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

No wonder they are getting harsh on English speaking expats.  Can't blame them really. 

 

Are your Thai language skills available for hire?  Just for your friends on TVF of course.

 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by watcharacters

[Tchooptip]

1 minute ago, scorecard said:

A question; Can any TV folks suggest or recommend an on-line translation site which is better then Google translate? Thanks. 

Yes iTranslate using the Microsoft translation engine is better for sure 

[scorecard]

34 minutes ago, ChristianBlessing said:

This graphic aptly demonstrates what socio/psycho-linguists generally agree upon; that prior to age 7-8 we acquire language; in subsequent years we learn language (excepting ones home language). The differences between acquiring and learning are not trivial, to which many here can attest. Children appear to have a "language center" or neurological predisposition to acquire a target language, which enables them to embrace that language almost as easily as their first language. That language "switch", however, seems to be disabled beyond age 8.

My two oldest Thai granddaughters fit this graph perfectly, and the third one (3 yrs old) moving in the same curve.

 

However there's another point, my Thai son speaks excellent English and his Thai wife speaks pretty good English.

 

 

At the birth of his first daughter he made a family policy that at home we only speak English (as he had experienced when he was a kid). We kept to it, so our kids had the enormous benefit of total immersion in English as well as Thai.

 

The first two, by about 4 or 5 years old were confidently and quickly speaking sentences.  

[Tchooptip]

7 hours ago, Antonymous said:

It takes someone of low intelligence to come up with a comment as simple as that.

Certainly not there is a good deal of truth in it.