RTP Shakedown - Who's to Blame?

[Spidey]

Had to a quick round trip from Pattaya to Buriram last week. Hired a new (red plates) 4x4 from a local reputable rental company. A friend, over from the UK, insisted on driving as he won't get in a car if I'm driving it.

 

Completely uneventful journey, my friend drives like a chauffeur, until we reached Kabinburi, where we were subjected to one of a number of police checkpoints. Unusually, we were waved into the side. Officer approached the car and asked to see my friends driving licence. He quickly checked that, didn't ask for his IDP or passport. Then he asked for the car documents. I pulled everything out of the glove box and handed them to him. After going through everything with a fine tooth comb, he announced that there was a problem and we were being fined 1000 baht.

 

It was at this point that my wife launched into action, fearsome creature, sat in the back, launched into action. She asked the officer what the problem was and he indicated that the brown book hadn't been filled in. She then told him that we hadn't any money to pay the fine. He countered by saying, "You have some very nice gold!". My wife countered with a bid of 200 baht and he agreed to settle for 300 baht. We paid him, got no receipt and continued on our journey. My wife then completed the relevant section in the book, in case we were stopped again (which we weren't). 

 

For me, the incident was par for the course, my wife was embarrassed at the treatment my friend, a visitor to her country, received at the hands of the RTP, and my friend was genuinely outraged to point that the incident took the shine off the whole trip. He's insisting that he will email the Thai tourism office when he returns home.

 

My question is who was at fault? Was it a complete con by the RTP? Was it the fault of the hire car company for not completing the book properly? Should we have completed the relevant section before starting our journey?

 

 

 

[Briggsy]

I am very surprised that a "reputable" rental company is renting out unregistered (red plate) vehicles.

 

When you say "reputable", are we talking "international reputable", as in a car rental brand that would be known in France, the UK or America, or "Thai reputable"?

[Spidey]

Just now, Briggsy said:

I am very surprised that a "reputable" rental company is renting out unregistered (red plate) vehicles.

 

When you say "reputable", are we talking "international reputable", as in a car rental brand that would be known in France, the UK or America, or "Thai reputable"?

Well established rental company in Pattaya, run by a Brit. Have used it several times before with no problems and gets good reviews.

[Briggsy]

Just now, Spidey said:

Well established rental company in Pattaya, run by a Brit. Have used it several times before with no problems and gets good reviews.

Ah, "Thai reputable". Therein lies the problem.

[Spidey]

Just now, Briggsy said:

Ah, "Thai reputable". Therein lies the problem.

Are you saying that it's the fault of the rental company? If so, I'll claim the "fine" back from them when I return the car.

[Briggsy]

3 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Are you saying that it's the fault of the rental company? If so, I'll claim the "fine" back from them when I return the car.

Yes.

 

I suspect the rental company has decided to maximise return on capital investment (renting out the cars before registration), to cut expenditure (by not expediting registration) and to improve cash flow (by delaying registration to the full 30/90 days, whatever is permitted). I very much doubt Hertz, Avis, Europcar, Budget would rent out unregistered cars and it may be illegal or at least unlicenced. It is this kind of illicit corner-cutting that allows these firms to undercut the big boys.

 

It is only on the odd occasion when things go wrong (policemen checks documentation thoroughly), do you discover that a firm is as good as it makes out to be or not.

[AhFarangJa]

Many years ago the same happened to me. Hired a car in Bangkok to go to Surin. Hire company name is 4 letters beginning with A. ending in S.

Red plate car with about 300 km on it. Was stopped by the toll booth at Don Muang. Policeman asked for the book which, at the time I knew nothing about. No-one in the company told me about it, especially having to fill in every trip. Plod wanted 5K Baht. We eventually got it down to 2K, no ticket. If I had gone the ticket route we would have lost a day in Bangkok. I called the hire company who said if we had a ticket they would pay the fine, but as I said no ticket issued. Now when I drive from Hua Hin to Surin I always see red plate cars pulled at checkpoints. probably a nice little earner as it is your responsibility to fill in the book.

Edited November 18, 2018 by AhFarangJa

[Spidey]

Just now, AhFarangJa said:

Many years ago the same happened to me. Hired a must in Bangkok to go to Surin. Hire company name is 4 letters beginning with A.

Red plate car with about 300 km on it. Was stopped by the toll booth at Don Muang. Policeman asked for the book which, at the time I knew nothing about. No-one in the company told me about it, especially having to fill in every trip. Plod wanted 5K Baht. We eventually got it down to 2K, no ticket. If I had gone the ticket route we would have lost a day in Bangkok. I called the hire company who said if we had a ticket they would pay the fine, but as I said no ticket issued. Now when I drive from Hua Hin to Surin I always see red plate cars pulled at checkpoints. probably a nice little earner as it is your responsibility to fill in the book.

I was told nothing about the book when I hired the car. I don't have a ticket but the company will be reimbursing me. Taking the car back today, will update this thread with the result.

[bluesofa]

9 minutes ago, AhFarangJa said:

Many years ago the same happened to me. Hired a must in Bangkok to go to Surin. Hire company name is 4 letters beginning with A.

Red plate car with about 300 km on it. Was stopped by the toll booth at Don Muang. Policeman asked for the book which, at the time I knew nothing about. No-one in the company told me about it, especially having to fill in every trip. Plod wanted 5K Baht. We eventually got it down to 2K, no ticket. If I had gone the ticket route we would have lost a day in Bangkok. I called the hire company who said if we had a ticket they would pay the fine, but as I said no ticket issued. Now when I drive from Hua Hin to Surin I always see red plate cars pulled at checkpoints. probably a nice little earner as it is your responsibility to fill in the book.

Red plates are still being issued, despite the DLT stating that by July this year no more whatsoever were to be issued.

Oh yes, I remember now, the difference between what a government department say and what they do is wider than any RTP officer's official pay and how much they make in reality.

 

[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, Spidey said:

Well established rental company in Pattaya, run by a Brit. Have used it several times before with no problems and gets good reviews.

Thanks for laugh, it was irresponsible of the rental company to not inform you of the red plate book but as said the car shouldn't of been rented out.

I bet they didn't tell you you can't drive after dark either.

[phutoie2]

you were lucky the RTP did'nt tell your wife to launch herself with you and your buddy down to the Police station to pay the fine. You got off lightly with 300 Baht.

[KhunBENQ]

4 hours ago, Spidey said:

Was it the fault of the hire car company for not completing the book properly?

1) as written in post #2 it is more than astonishing that a company rents red-plate cars

 

2) it is a significant neglect that they did not tell you about the limitations/requirements with the red-plate car. There is not only this antique brown book but also a restriction in time of day to drive (forgot the details).

 

And yes, 99% of red-plate drivers still ignore all the stuff and hope to get through.

And yes, the whole red-plate/week long wait for proper plates is another Thai "joke".

 

After buying my car in 2011 I had this nonsense for a couple of weeks and tried to find out what to do with this brown book.

Blank stare when asking.

 

Edited November 18, 2018 by KhunBENQ

[Huckenfell]

4 hours ago, Briggsy said:

Yes.

 

I suspect the rental company has decided to maximise return on capital investment (renting out the cars before registration), to cut expenditure (by not expediting registration) and to improve cash flow (by delaying registration to the full 30/90 days, whatever is permitted). I very much doubt Hertz, Avis, Europcar, Budget would rent out unregistered cars and it may be illegal or at least unlicenced. It is this kind of illicit corner-cutting that allows these firms to undercut the big boys.

 

It is only on the odd occasion when things go wrong (policemen checks documentation thoroughly), do you discover that a firm is as good as it makes out to be or not.

No receipt so how can you claim.

 

[seancbk]

 

4 hours ago, Spidey said:

my friend was genuinely outraged to point that the incident took the shine off the whole trip. He's insisting that he will email the Thai tourism office when he returns home.

Over 300 THB?   

[Just Weird]

4 hours ago, Spidey said:

Are you saying that it's the fault of the rental company? If so, I'll claim the "fine" back from them when I return the car.

You didn't pay a fine, your wife bribed the officer so that you would not have to pay a fine!  If you had paid a fine you'd have been given a receipt.  The hypocrisy of some people.

[bluesofa]

After my post earlier regarding the DLT saying red plates were to be banned, I've spent some time finding out when it was I read it (see the article below)

It was back in January 2018. I see now it does say "Newly-bought vehicles that carry temporary red license plates will be banned from streets starting in June if a draft law is enacted, the Land Transport Department chief said on Monday."

What I don't remember seeing was any follow-up confirming the law had been "enacted".

At least I didn't dream reading it!

 

 

[Just Weird]

4 hours ago, Spidey said:

For me, the incident was par for the course, my wife was embarrassed at the treatment my friend, a visitor to her country, received at the hands of the RTP, and my friend was genuinely outraged to point that the incident took the shine off the whole trip. He's insisting that he will email the Thai tourism office when he returns home.

Your friend was outraged that he had been stopped?  Why?  You said that it was a checkpoint, what would you and he expect?  His licence was ok, so he had no problem, the problem was an incorrect documentation problem with the brown book, that was real, not a shakedown.

 

Why was your wife embarrassed at "the treatment your friend received"?  What "treatment"?  Nothing you describe suggests that he was treated anything but courteously. What will he have to complain to TAT about?

 

Maybe your wife was embarrassed because she displayed her own corrupt actions and mindset by bribing a RTP officer.

[Just Weird]

12 minutes ago, seancbk said:

 

Over 300 THB?   

...that he didn't have to pay!

[alien365]

The brown book is a complete waste of time. How a bit of pen (my dealer told me to use pencil so it could be rubbed out) in a book completed by the driver can affect anything is beyond me. It's not as if it uploads to a computer database to allow suitable cover.

[Just Weird]

What is it about my post above that confuses you, Colinneil?  Everything that I said was factual.

[transam]

One must expect anything in a third world country...

[ThaiFelix]

5 hours ago, bluesofa said:

Red plates are still being issued, despite the DLT stating that by July this year no more whatsoever were to be issued.

Oh yes, I remember now, the difference between what a government department say and what they do is wider than any RTP officer's official pay and how much they make in reality.

 

You just dont understand Thai government methodology in handling a crisis....which is: think about it momentarily, make a quick decision, announce it to get your face/name in the paper and the press off your back.  Then,later on , when you have time, stop and think about it or debate it and then backtrack completely.   Remember no riding in back of pickups? trackable sims for all farang?  trackable anklets for all farang?  helmets for all motorcyclists?  massive increases in fines for no license, drunk driving etc?   Result?  Nothing except some people wear helmets sometimes!

[Spidey]

2 hours ago, Just Weird said:

Your friend was outraged that he had been stopped?  Why?  You said that it was a checkpoint, what would you and he expect?  His licence was ok, so he had no problem, the problem was an incorrect documentation problem with the brown book, that was real, not a shakedown.

 

Why was your wife embarrassed at "the treatment your friend received"?  What "treatment"?  Nothing you describe suggests that he was treated anything but courteously. What will he have to complain to TAT about?

 

Maybe your wife was embarrassed because she displayed her own corrupt actions and mindset by bribing a RTP officer.

Maybe you are a troll. Maybe you don't have a clue what you are talking about. Maybe you have never been to Thailand. Maybe you are from another planet. Maybe you are just weird. 

 

Not for me to judge, I'll leave that to others.

[Spidey]

Spoke to the 2nd in command at the car hire company when I returned the car. Admitted liability but would have to speak with his boss before reimbursing me for the fine. Said he would call later. Still waiting. Watch this space.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Spidey

[Spidey]

3 hours ago, phutoie2 said:

you were lucky the RTP did'nt tell your wife to launch herself with you and your buddy down to the Police station to pay the fine. You got off lightly with 300 Baht.

Clearly you haven't had much contact with the RTP. Never pay the full amount. Always negotiate.

 

On one occasion I was stopped for 130 in a 90 limit. 400 baht negotiated down to 100 baht. On another occasion the RTP had fixed a set of traffic lights permanently on red, coincidentally same friend driving the car. After sitting there for a few minutes and no one around we went through. Further down the road we were pulled in, along with dozens of Thais. 400 baht fine reduced to 250 which was thrown into a large cardboard box.

 

You need to learn to play the game if you live in Thailand.

[Spidey]

2 hours ago, Just Weird said:

What is it about my post above that confuses you, Colinneil?  Everything that I said was factual.

Maybe on planet Zod, but not on planet earth and certainly not in Thailand.

[connda]

7 hours ago, Spidey said:

Well established rental company in Pattaya, run by a Brit. Have used it several times before with no problems and gets good reviews.

You have the receipt, so ask the Brit owner to reimburse you for the fine.  Their car, their documentation, their responsibility, their fine.  If his business is 'reputable' he'll take care of the fine.

 

 

8 hours ago, Spidey said:

For me, the incident was par for the course, my wife was embarrassed at the treatment my friend, a visitor to her country, received at the hands of the RTP, and my friend was genuinely outraged to point that the incident took the shine off the whole trip. He's insisting that he will email the Thai tourism office when he returns home.

As far as your friend complaining to the Thai authorities about a RTP cop doing his job?  Look, he discounted the fine and gave him a receipt.  Nothing 'corrupt' here.  Heck, I forgot to put my tax stamp in my window one year.  The stamp was in the glove compartment.  We put the tax stamp on the window, paid a fine, got a receipt, smiled, and continued on our way.  That did not 'ruin' my day.
Did the RPT disrespect your foreigner friend?  The answer is 'no' correct?  His letter will make it's way though the system, and then his superiors should pat him on the back for doing what he gets paid to do.  Trust me - it wasn't personal.  The error was on the part of the rentor.  You friend unfortunately was driving the vehicle and caught the fine.  Smile.  Present receipt to the rentor and ask for reimbursement.  How's that the cop's fault? 
Having a routine traffic stop that cost 300 THB 'ruin' your vacation?  Lordy, someone needs thicker skin. 

 

 

[Spidey]

Just now, connda said:

You have the receipt, so ask the Brit owner to reimburse you for the fine.  Their car, their documentation, their responsibility, their fine.  If his business is 'reputable' he'll take care of the fine.

 

 

As far as your friend complaining to the Thai authorities about a RTP cop doing his job?  Look, he discounted the fine and gave him a receipt.  Nothing 'corrupt' here.  Heck, I forgot to put my tax stamp in my window one year.  The stamp was in the glove compartment.  We put the tax stamp on the window, paid a fine, got a receipt, smiled, and continued on our way.  That did not 'ruin' my day.
Did the RPT disrespect your foreigner friend?  The answer is 'no' correct?  His letter will make it's way though the system, and then his superiors should pat him on the back for doing what he gets paid to do.  Trust me - it wasn't personal.  The error was on the part of the rentor.  You friend unfortunately was driving the vehicle and caught the fine.  Smile.  Present receipt to the rentor and ask for reimbursement.  How's that the cop's fault? 
Having a routine traffic stop that cost 300 THB 'ruin' your vacation?  Lordy, someone needs thicker skin. 

 

 

I agree with everything you say except that I didn't have a receipt. RTP don't give receipts when taking a bung.

 

As for my friend, I agree with you. He isn't as versed in Thai ways as we are. Plus the fact that he has been driving for well over 40 years and has a spotless driving record. The only 2 times he has been stopped by police are here in Thailand. Takes it as a personal affront to have his driving ability questioned.

[canthai55]

31 minutes ago, Spidey said:

 Takes it as a personal affront to have his driving ability questioned.

Poor Baby. Tell your 'Friend' to grow a pair.

When in a Foreign country tell him that it is wise to learn the local laws if he wants to avoid such shattering blows to his manhood.

And he will not ride in a car or truck unless he is driving ? Sounds like he thinks his driving is beyond reproach. Highly unlikely. I have 10 years on him and I learn something new every time I hit the road.

 

Edited November 18, 2018 by canthai55

[transam]

22 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

Poor Baby. Tell your 'Friend' to grow a pair.

When in a Foreign country tell him that it is wise to learn the local laws if he wants to avoid such shattering blows to his manhood.

And he will not ride in a car or truck unless he is driving ? Sounds like he thinks his driving is beyond reproach. Highly unlikely. I have 10 years on him and I learn something new every time I hit the road.

 

Hope you are OK after all those road hits...At least you learned a lot....????