Tight security for Phoenix amid probe into boat tragedy

[wvavin]

Still need further investigation? The whole world knows it is pure human negligence by their entrenched care-less attitude.

[stevenl]

4 hours ago, scorecard said:

Here's another thought, some reports say it was a dive boat / the passengers were on the boat for diving.

 

The vessel sank in 45 meters of water.

 

So a question for the diving professionals, is 45 meters about normal for a diving excursion like this, for amateur divers, or is 45 meters more suitable for very experienced divers?

 

A bit late now but i wonder if their certifications to dive were checked before any of them actually went diving?

 

It was a boat where on board snorkelers were upsold a first time diving experience. None of the guests had any diving experience.

[LivinginKata]

4 hours ago, scorecard said:

Here's another thought, some reports say it was a dive boat / the passengers were on the boat for diving.

 

The vessel sank in 45 meters of water.

 

So a question for the diving professionals, is 45 meters about normal for a diving excursion like this, for amateur divers, or is 45 meters more suitable for very experienced divers?

 

A bit late now but i wonder if their certifications to dive were checked before any of them actually went diving?

 

 

Boat was in transit when it sank.  AFAIK it did not sink at the planned dive site.

[Phil Here]

Several questions have since emerged as to whether the tour-boat operator had complied with safety standards or whether the yacht was itself substandard. 

 

Answers most likely to be NO and YES.

Who would trust a Thai investigation? Report WILL be altered as are all other investigations.

Look back at how much was swept under the carpet in the 12Go aircrash in Phuket 11 years ago. 

[fruitman]

8 hours ago, Boatfreak said:

"...whether the tour-boat operator had complied with safety standards" 

i am an inspector for the International Marine Certification Bureau and based in Phuket and I am really wondering what safety standards they are referring to, International Standards such as published by the Thai Industrial Standard Institute are certainly not applied in Thailand except for boats being exported to Europe.

Would be nice if you can tell us on this forum which thai tourboats do apply to the european safety rules....So we can use those. (with western captains)

[connda]

Read an article today that stated that the boat was built sub-standard and had defects  Can't wait for the defamation suit from the manufacturer of the boat to hit Thai court. 

[connda]

7 hours ago, car720 said:

99.9% of Chinese cannot swim.

Source? ????

[connda]

7 hours ago, scorecard said:

So a question for the diving professionals, is 45 meters about normal for a diving excursion like this, for amateur divers, or is 45 meters more suitable for very experienced divers?

Do you not transit over deep waters to get to the shallow of an island reef?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

 

Upcoming news release -- Phoenix tour boat soon ready to sail again!!! 

[lvr181]

21 hours ago, fruitman said:

They better let farang experts investigate this, i have no faith in thai experts.

"..thai experts" would seem, to me, to be an oxymoron. And if these "experts" are the only ones then it is a good scenario for a cover up! 

[Cereal]

It would be interesting to find out if there had been any extra work done on the boat without having it resurveyed. 

 

This was much of the blame when the Suwol Ferry sank in Korea with the loss of 300 high school kids. 

 

After the purchase there was a lot of work done on the boat which changed its center of gravity. 

[kiwikeith]

On ‎11‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 11:37 AM, pattayadgw said:

I don't think they're going to find the wave that capsized her inside.. what do they think they're going to find??

Is the Boat big enough for 47 people

 

On ‎11‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 11:37 AM, pattayadgw said:

I don't think they're going to find the wave that capsized her inside.. what do they think they're going to find??

Is the boat big enough for 47 people or were there more on-board?

I have experienced major overloading on the ferry from Koh samui back to the mainland.

This practice seems to still be rife.

 

[stevenl]

15 minutes ago, kiwikeith said:

Is the Boat big enough for 47 people

 

Is the boat big enough for 47 people or were there more on-board?

I have experienced major overloading on the ferry from Koh samui back to the mainland.

This practice seems to still be rife.

 

Look at the photos, and you'll see the size of the boat.

[Old Croc]

17 minutes ago, kiwikeith said:

Is the Boat big enough for 47 people

 

Is the boat big enough for 47 people or were there more on-board?

I have experienced major overloading on the ferry from Koh samui back to the mainland.

This practice seems to still be rife.

 

There was more than 100 on board at the time.

It's now on a hard stand in the shipyards, see the pic. Do you think it's big enough for that many people or that it should sink in a squall?

 

 

I believe they've already discovered it had a converted truck engine for propulsion and that the ballast shifted causing it to list.

The real reasons for the tragedy will become clear in time..

[lvr181]

"The real reasons for the tragedy will become clear in time.."

 

Only if this tragedy is NOT pointing to a connected person!

 

[happy chappie]

On 11/19/2018 at 10:49 AM, steelepulse said:

Thing is, those that died below deck were all wearing some sort of life preserver and they could not get out as per the news reports.  There was a mention that the life preservers weren't the approved type that was supposed to be provided.

I think I remember the report saying they were using floatation vests which is not the same as life vests apart from the colour maybe.this has just quickly been mentioned but I would say it was a major factor in what caused so many deaths plus keeping the passengers below deck.

[Old Croc]

1 hour ago, lvr181 said:

"The real reasons for the tragedy will become clear in time.."

 

Only if this tragedy is NOT pointing to a connected person!

 

At this stage it seems it was owned and operated by Chinese interests. Some have already been charged.

The local untouchables seem not to be connected.

[Boatfreak]

On 11/19/2018 at 4:54 PM, fruitman said:

Would be nice if you can tell us on this forum which thai tourboats do apply to the european safety rules....So we can use those. (with western captains)

We are actually in the process of providing VOLUNTARY certification to the charter operator, my guess is that maybe 5 to 10% of the charter boats will comply with the requirements.

Peter Jacops

International Marine Certification Institute

[OKF]

In theory I am with a lot of posters here as cover up is the thing here in T....BUT I think in this case all is watched by the Chinese and they are taking it serious. I believe the Chinese Consulate knows how things work in T. The 'Chinese eye' will bring things up or not but if not then this will be up to a deal. Either way it may heal some of the problems that occured afterwards. As far as I know there were gov. official warnings not to travel to T in the rainy season in the south bcs of poor health and safety and maintenance issues in T. So rainy season over soon, we will see what comes next. China will certainly use this to take grip of T. China is about to get more and moe influence in Asia everywhere so any reason for this is good enough.

[impulse]

Does anyone know where the boat was built? 

 

The news that can't be quoted or linked has an article claiming the windows were not marine glass, the ballast was blocks of concrete and there was only one waterproof door, where 4 are required.  It was also built in a machine shop, as opposed to a shipyard, and there are 1/10 the number of blueprints that would be expected for a boat of this size.

 

But half an hour of Googling doesn't reveal where it was built.  Was it Thailand, China, or ???

 

Edit:  Same article also says a bunch of heads will roll for approving the vessel, but I'm skeptical.  And I wonder how many more death traps just like it are still plying the tourist trade...

 

Edited December 17, 2018 by impulse

[Aussie999]

A month later, and NO update... all is suspiciously quiet.

[ChipButty]

6 hours ago, impulse said:

Does anyone know where the boat was built? 

 

The news that can't be quoted or linked has an article claiming the windows were not marine glass, the ballast was blocks of concrete and there was only one waterproof door, where 4 are required.  It was also built in a machine shop, as opposed to a shipyard, and there are 1/10 the number of blueprints that would be expected for a boat of this size.

 

But half an hour of Googling doesn't reveal where it was built.  Was it Thailand, China, or ???

 

Edit:  Same article also says a bunch of heads will roll for approving the vessel, but I'm skeptical.  And I wonder how many more death traps just like it are still plying the tourist trade...

 

Will we ever find out?

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, Aussie999 said:

A month later, and NO update... all is suspiciously quiet.

Sounds like you missed the latest.

[stevenl]

7 hours ago, impulse said:

Does anyone know where the boat was built? 

 

The news that can't be quoted or linked has an article claiming the windows were not marine glass, the ballast was blocks of concrete and there was only one waterproof door, where 4 are required.  It was also built in a machine shop, as opposed to a shipyard, and there are 1/10 the number of blueprints that would be expected for a boat of this size.

 

But half an hour of Googling doesn't reveal where it was built.  Was it Thailand, China, or ???

 

Edit:  Same article also says a bunch of heads will roll for approving the vessel, but I'm skeptical.  And I wonder how many more death traps just like it are still plying the tourist trade...

 

Built in Thailand.

 

Yes, those windows should not have been approved, together with quite a few other things, but concrete ballast is very common.

 

On Phuket, the specs for tourists boats have changed, and they have been inspected for those changes. E.g. entrance to the engine room via the lower back is not allowed any more.

 

I think heads will do roll.

[robblok]

18 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Sounds like you missed the latest.

Yes great article about how the boat was substandard and how they would also go after those who approved the design both engineers and people from the government. It was in the BKK post today.

[stevenl]

10 hours ago, impulse said:

Does anyone know where the boat was built? 

 

The news that can't be quoted or linked has an article claiming the windows were not marine glass, the ballast was blocks of concrete and there was only one waterproof door, where 4 are required.  It was also built in a machine shop, as opposed to a shipyard, and there are 1/10 the number of blueprints that would be expected for a boat of this size.

 

But half an hour of Googling doesn't reveal where it was built.  Was it Thailand, China, or ???

 

Edit:  Same article also says a bunch of heads will roll for approving the vessel, but I'm skeptical.  And I wonder how many more death traps just like it are still plying the tourist trade...

 

"Same article also says a bunch of heads will roll for approving the vessel, but I'm skeptical."

 

From another article: " The former Phuket Marine Office Chief has already been arrested and facing legal action for ignoring his duties. "

[robblok]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

"Same article also says a bunch of heads will roll for approving the vessel, but I'm skeptical."

 

From another article: " The former Phuket Marine Office Chief has already been arrested and facing legal action for ignoring his duties. "

They pissed off important people so maybe something will happen. If it were just some foreigners but no these were Chinese now quite important for the economy. So yea some heads might roll and arresting a former Phuket marine office Chief is not a small thing in my book.

 

But we have to see what sticks and what the outcome is, right now a lot of tough talk but who knows what happens once the heat dies down. 

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, robblok said:

They pissed off important people so maybe something will happen. If it were just some foreigners but no these were Chinese now quite important for the economy. So yea some heads might roll and arresting a former Phuket marine office Chief is not a small thing in my book.

 

But we have to see what sticks and what the outcome is, right now a lot of tough talk but who knows what happens once the heat dies down. 

True. But an arrest because of 'ignoring his duties'.

[LivinginKata]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

True. But an arrest because of 'ignoring his duties'.

 

But will there be any follow up to this 'arrest' ... or just the usual fodder for the media.

[robblok]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

True. But an arrest because of 'ignoring his duties'.

I don't know what else they could have arrested him for, im not that well versed in Thai law. But ignoring his duties seems to cover it when you sign off on a boat that is not up to standard. One could call it fraud or corruption but then you also have to prove that he received money to do so.

 

They might just have taken the easy way because they can prove this, the money he quite possible received is a lot harder to prove. Unless of course you can get the one who paid to flip on him (possible the company owner)