The Official Manchester United Thread

[BangrakBob]

1 hour ago, sotsira said:

Could well be the worst financial transfer loss to date.

 

https://www.balls.ie/football/breakdown-alexis-sanchez-manchester-united-416435

With his EPL pedigree for Arsenal you'd have expected him to kick-on. I really thought he was going to be a fantastic acquisition and the potential cost of 81M would be justified in the end. 

[RickG16]

6 hours ago, BangrakBob said:

Keisuke Honda scored 5 goals and got 3 assists in 8 games in the A-league this season, doesn't mean he can cut it at Milan tomorrow.

I watch a lot of boxing and there is a phrase we use called 'the eye test'. This essentially means making a judgement by what you see instead of purely on resume / record.

 

I'm not interested in goal or assist ratios. I've watched a lot of Rooney in MLS and in my judgement yes, he could cut it and still make a meaningful contribution as a squad player. Ryan Giggs played to 40 once his pace had gone, relying on the attributes of being able to pick a pass and read the game. 

Edited August 30, 2019 by RickG16

[BangrakBob]

On 8/30/2019 at 4:02 PM, RickG16 said:

I watch a lot of boxing and there is a phrase we use called 'the eye test'. This essentially means making a judgement by what you see instead of purely on resume / record.

 

I'm not interested in goal or assist ratios. I've watched a lot of Rooney in MLS and in my judgement yes, he could cut it and still make a meaningful contribution as a squad player. Ryan Giggs played to 40 once his pace had gone, relying on the attributes of being able to pick a pass and read the game. 

ok Teddy Atlas...

 

My point wasn't about goals, ratios it was that an ex-European top tier player was doing well in a 3rd grade foreign league, but how does that signal that he could replicate again at the top level?

It really doesn't. What you are seeing out of Rooney in the MLS would not be replicated in the EPL, he'd be mown down, dispossessed or not even see the ball for most fo the match. Old boys and charity match's of late have shown how good Gerrard still is...at that level. 

 

 

[RickG16]

6 minutes ago, BangrakBob said:

ok Teddy Atlas...

 

My point wasn't about goals, ratios it was that an ex-European top tier player was doing well in a 3rd grade foreign league, but how does that signal that he could replicate again at the top level?

It really doesn't. What you are seeing out of Rooney in the MLS would not be replicated in the EPL, he'd be mown down, dispossessed or not even see the ball for most fo the match. Old boys and charity match's of late have shown how good Gerrard still is...at that level. 

 

 

Teddy Atlas... legend... maybe you do know your stuff ????

 

The last time we saw him at United he was being used as a centre forward. I believe with all the young legs around him he could play a deeper role in the slot where Lingard / Mata play. As a squad player, not 1st team, for a couple of years at least. 

 

Anyway Bob, I've nothing more to add. You are the one who will go to your death bed knowing you compared Keisuke Honda to Wayne Rooney. 

[Sparkles]

If you interested in the young guns coming up through from the Academy and taking their place in the U/23's worth taking a look at the short video clips on the clubs web site.

The U/23's so far unbeaten and last result 2-2 with West ham and previously 4-0 v Newcastle.

 

V newcastle Chong (2) & Garner clinical in front of goal and a well built young LB Brandon Williams looked very promising in the WH game.

 

Of course whether they can cut it the PL is yet to be seen but the clock must be ticking on that score

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2019 by Sparkles

[Bredbury Blue]

My recollection is that in his later seasons at ManU Rooney was played in midfield by van gaal but he wasn't that good. Mourinho didn't rate him there at all. Im with Bob on this that Rooney wouldn't get in to ManU squad. Great player in his day but once he reached his 30s his days at the top were over. Loved Mourinho  comment  

 

"Maybe he is not a striker, not a No9 any more, but for me he will never be a No6, playing 50 metres from the goal,” Mourinho said. “You can tell me his pass is amazing but my pass is also amazing without pressure. To be there and put the ball in the net is the most difficult thing. For me he will be a nine, a 10, a nine and a half – but never a six or an eight.”

That's funny!

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jul/15/jose-mourinho-manchester-united-wayne-rooney

[RickG16]

Just now, Sparkles said:

If you interested in the young guns coming up through from the Academy and taking their place in the U/23's worth taking a look at the short video clips on the clubs web site.

The U/23's so far unbeaten and last result 4-0 v Newcastle.

 

Chong (2) & Garner clinical in front of goal and a well built young LB Brandon Williams looks very promising.

 

Of course whether they can cut it the PL is yet to be seen but the clock must be ticking on that score

 

 

 

This batch of kids has looked amazing in the under 23s for some time now. I think Greenwood is a test - after all the hype, if it turns out he isn't ready yet I'm going to stop paying attention to these under 23 videos because they have a tendency to make youngsters look like world beaters when they aren't yet.

 

We will see. In 10 mins we'll find out if Greenwood is starting today....

[Sparkles]

4 minutes ago, RickG16 said:

This batch of kids has looked amazing in the under 23s for some time now. I think Greenwood is a test - after all the hype, if it turns out he isn't ready yet I'm going to stop paying attention to these under 23 videos because they have a tendency to make youngsters look like world beaters when they aren't yet.

 

We will see. In 10 mins we'll find out if Greenwood is starting today....

True U/23's are not the real test but at least its testament to their potential.Far better U/23 squad than last years ,from memory they finished nearly at the bottom of the table. 

Edited August 31, 2019 by Sparkles

[RickG16]

4 minutes ago, Bredbury Blue said:

For me he will be a nine, a 10, a nine and a half – but never a six or an eight.”

That's funny!

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jul/15/jose-mourinho-manchester-united-wayne-rooney

You don't need to look it up. I can tell you. Jose played him mostly as a 9. I'm saying he could still do a job as a 10. 

 

Just remember who we are talking about here. Let's use a cricket analogy... Sachin Tendulkar played until he was near enough 40, Shane Warne probably could have done. We are talking about someone who has god given gifts, as long as he is used properly.

 

Rooney was by far the most talented player of his generation. 

Edited August 31, 2019 by RickG16

[RickG16]

7 minutes ago, Sparkles said:

True U/23's are not the real test but at least its testament to their potential.Far better U/23 squad than last years ,from memory they finished nearly at the bottom of the table. 

No Greenwood... Peirera gets the nod... oh well.

 

If we can get back to the solid defence of the first two games, we should be OK.

[Sparkles]

Big ask to have Greenwood to start,will be on as a sub.

 

Wonder how long before Matic gets the huff ?

[RickG16]

Just now, Sparkles said:

Big ask to have Greenwood to start,will be on as a sub.

 

Wonder how long before Matic gets the huff ?

I just get the feeling he's played the wrong side for the wrong games. We could have done with the extra pace of Lingard playing away from home, whereas against Palace we could have used Mata to pick the lock

 

We shall see.....

 

Yeah I just can't see how Matic gets in, unless McTominay gets injured. Doesn't add a lot from the bench I don't think.

[Bredbury Blue]

30 minutes ago, RickG16 said:

I'm saying he could still do a job as a 10.

If Rooney could get back in your team as a no. 10 or any position would show how poor you were. He wasn't good enough when he left you, when he was at everton or now to make it in the Premier at a top 6 club. I dare say he could get in to teams lower down the Premier. You need a trip down the opticians to get new lenses in those rose-tinted glasses if you honestly believe he could benefit ManU these days. Hear Bobby Charlton might be available.

[RickG16]

5 minutes ago, Bredbury Blue said:

If Rooney could get back in your team as a no. 10 

I said squad, not team.... but as we know, football terminology gets a bit confusing for you. Foden the 1st team regular etc etc.....

[Bredbury Blue]

13 minutes ago, RickG16 said:

I said squad, not team.... but as we know, football terminology gets a bit confusing for you. Foden the 1st team regular etc etc.....

Fine, I'll correct my comment to if Rooney could get back in your team OR SQUAD as a no. 10 or any position would show how poor you were.

[3 minus 2]

thought you lacked a cutting edge upfront.. plenty of pace and touch .. but no one could 'hold'the ball up .. suppose.. thats thw lack of  plan b  prev mentioned and as for southamptons goal.. i'm not sure whose more to blame, linderlof for an abso pathetic jump or being kind and calling de gaes  attempt a 'flap' basically   either part wasnt imo what ude expect of prem players let alone utd players  .  even so getting  a point away in the prem  isnt to be sniffed at

Edited August 31, 2019 by 3 minus 2

[hackjam]

Well impressed with that right back.

Why did keeper not catch that ball that led to equalizer, instead of punching it to a saints player?

[3 minus 2]

yeah both signings james with  3 goals so far,, looks like the prem suits him,,but maintaing that level, BIG ask and the same applies to other signing at utd the stakes are high ,, and how good a signing has young been,, SO versatilee,, people rave bout milners adaptabilty but tbh ,, i'de sooner have young,, just.

[owl sees all]

10 hours ago, 3 minus 2 said:

yeah both signings james with  3 goals so far,, looks like the prem suits him,,but maintaing that level, BIG ask and the same applies to other signing at utd the stakes are high ,, and how good a signing has young been,, SO versatilee,, people rave bout milners adaptabilty but tbh ,, i'de sooner have young,, just.

Young has developed into a fine player. Especially now he has stopped that constant diving.

 

United, in the second half, reminded me of Burnley back in the 1960s. Harry Potts and Jimmy Adamson. Set new standards. Although Liverpool were the first English team I saw to play 4-2-4/4-4-2 under Paisley's coaching.

[Bredbury Blue]

Owl, you are obviously older than all or most of us on the footie forum, and i enjoy your comments on times most of us are not aware of. Keep em coming.

 

Ps. You're probably the only one who can remember Spurs winning something ????

[owl sees all]

1 hour ago, Bredbury Blue said:

Owl, you are obviously older than all or most of us on the footie forum, and i enjoy your comments on times most of us are not aware of. Keep em coming.

 

Ps. You're probably the only one who can remember Spurs winning something ????

Kind words BB. Thank you. Spurs, in their double year, played the traditional English style game. Two out and out wingers, with a big bustling centre forward. John White (inside forward) was the maestro. A KDeB of 60 years ago. Danny Blanchflower was the brains of operations on the pitch  Dave McKay the heart.
 

Burnley. at that time were a force to be reckoned with. They would pin teams back. Playing the ball from right to left and left to right outside the penalty area. Waiting for the forwards to spot an opening rather than just hoof the ball into the penalty box.

 

There was an interesting game in the late 1950s I recall. The score Man U 6 - Villa 4. 10 goals all scored with headers. Just goes to show how teams played then. Everyone had concussion in those days. I headed a ball in a game in a 7th tier down game in Enfield and had headache for a week. Think I still feel the effects occasionally. We asked the ref to change the ball, but the alternatives were the same. Very hard and heavy.

 

 

Just as I'm writing this I am remembering that the year after Spurs double conquest it was Ipswich who were winners, and they had only been promoted the previous year.  Just Imagine that now-a-days!? 

 

I think Spurs were the first team to invite a 'foreign' club to play in England under floodlights. Moscow Dynamo. They had toured the UK in 1945, playing to the ground-busting crowds (estimated 100k at Chelsea and 95K in Glasgow). My uncle watched the Arsenal game in the fog at The Lane (before my time).

.

Edited September 1, 2019 by owl sees all

[Bredbury Blue]

Of that Spurs champions team the only one i can remember watching was the great Dave Mackay who was joint player of the year in 1969 with our "Skip", Tony Book, who at 84 years young is still seen regularly on club ambassador duties with "Buzzer".

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, owl sees all said:

Young has developed into a fine player. Especially now he has stopped that constant diving.

Yes I was thinking the same thing after watching him in the last two games and I believe it will be hard for Shaw to regain his place if Young keeps up his good form. 

 

Not only that, but Shaw doesn't seem to have progressed much and would be one of the only fullbacks I've seen who is bereft of ideas going forward – – totally the opposite to the great new signing at rightful back, Wan-Bissaka!

 

38 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

I headed a ball in a game in a 7th tier down game in Enfield and had headache for a week.

The footballs in the old days when I was a kid were the heavy leather sort which absorbed water and became heavier and also had a thick lace on them, which covered the slit in which the bladder was placed.

 

I think I was about 10 years old when playing in the school team and the goalkeeper cleared a ball and I headed it, and instantly wished I hadn't, because it almost knocked me flat on my back, and for a few days after I had the imprint of the laces on my forehead as well as a headache!

[xylophone]

15 hours ago, 3 minus 2 said:

thought you lacked a cutting edge upfront.. plenty of pace and touch .. but no one could 'hold'the ball up .. suppose.. thats thw lack of  plan b  prev mentioned and as for southamptons goal.. i'm not sure whose more to blame, linderlof for an abso pathetic jump or being kind and calling de gaes  attempt a 'flap' basically   either part wasnt imo what ude expect of prem players let alone utd players  .  even so getting  a point away in the prem  isnt to be sniffed at

IMO Utd are still short of one or two good midfield players who can command/control the game from that position and the likes of Perreira are just not going to do it for them, and as for Pogba, still not performing to expectations although he looked a lot better when he was pushed forward.

 

Felt sorry for Greenwood because he has not been given a real chance to shine or to show his colours and I don't think he ever will by coming on as a substitute a few minutes before the end of time.

 

In addition, the slow buildup which United still seem to favour allows other teams to pack their penalty areas and defence, making inroads very hard, hence the difficulty United had even when Southampton were down to 10 men.

 

I can't see United doing much this season unless something drastic happens, and things don't seem to have changed much under OGS with regards to tactics, so not taking bets on his tenure in the future.

[owl sees all]

57 minutes ago, xylophone said:

IMO Utd are still short of one or two good midfield players who can command/control the game from that position and the likes of Perreira are just not going to do it for them, and as for Pogba, still not performing to expectations although he looked a lot better when he was pushed forward.

 

Felt sorry for Greenwood because he has not been given a real chance to shine or to show his colours and I don't think he ever will by coming on as a substitute a few minutes before the end of time.

 

In addition, the slow buildup which United still seem to favour allows other teams to pack their penalty areas and defence, making inroads very hard, hence the difficulty United had even when Southampton were down to 10 men.

 

I can't see United doing much this season unless something drastic happens, and things don't seem to have changed much under OGS with regards to tactics, so not taking bets on his tenure in the future.

I think Pogba is not being used effectively. I would play him deeper. As in Valderrama, Blanchflower (Danny). Zidane, or Mick Hazard (at his best). Pulling the strings. Orchestrating the proceedings in front of him. 

 

One of the best players in the world and he doesn't have any significant role. OGS should read these threads.

 

 

Edited September 1, 2019 by owl sees all

[Sparkles]

Another tepid effort from United,5 points in 4 games against moderate opposition is just not good enough.

 

I get so frustrated when as in last nights game they go one up and then don't press the advantage. I've never been physically involved in a game, where as the commentator, said at 1-0 up "United are controlling the game" it wasn't even HT. You're not in control at 1-0 or even 2-0. 3 up you can perhaps just keep possession and feel comfortable. Young after the United goal was taking an age over throw ins like it was in extra time.He's captain he is supposed to set an example of moving the game along at pace

 

Rashford is starting to be a worry.I wouldn't give him more than 4/10 last night. Doesn't have the natural born instinct to be in the right place when the ball comes across the goal for a tap in or header.Strong in running in space but seems to be lost in the box.

 

For Southhampton's goal their CB is 6 ft 5" Lindelof was never going to out jump him so you get as close as possible and affect his jump and concentration instead of him having a free hit, its not illegal. United have had many "shortish" defenders Gary Neville ,Paul Parker,Dennis Irwin,come to mind none were big men but were instrumental by "suffocating" their opposition for clean sheets.United haven't had one for 19 games.

 

IMO the only players that  enhanced their reputations were Bissaka & James and Maguire was resolute.

 

OGS should have replaced Pereira, who contributed very little, much earlier for Greenwood.Giving the young lad 8 minutes is just a token gesture.

 

Pogba seemed to have his mind on deadline day ,he can forget that and get his head down and start creating.As a World Cup winner giving the ball away as much as he does of late is not acceptable.He knows it and its a litmus test of his character in coming weeks

 

International week has come at a bad time.The team needs the hairdryer treatment set on high

 

[RickG16]

2 minutes ago, Sparkles said:

Another tepid effort from United,5 points in 4 games against moderate opposition is just not good enough.

 

I get so frustrated when as in last nights game they go one up and then don't press the advantage. I've never been physically involved in a game, where as the commentator, said at 1-0 up "United are controlling the game" it wasn't even HT. You're not in control at 1-0 or even 2-0. 3 up you can perhaps just keep possession and feel comfortable. Young after the United goal was taking an age over throw ins like it was in extra time.He's captain he is supposed to set an example of moving the game along at pace

 

Rashford is starting to be a worry.I wouldn't give him more than 4/10 last night. Doesn't have the natural born instinct to be in the right place when the ball comes across the goal for a tap in or header.Strong in running in space but seems to be lost in the box.

 

For Southhampton's goal their CB is 6 ft 5" Lindelof was never going to out jump him so you get as close as possible and affect his jump and concentration instead of him having a free hit, its not illegal. United have had many "shortish" defenders Gary Neville ,Paul Parker,Dennis Irwin,come to mind none were big men but were instrumental by "suffocating" their opposition for clean sheets.United haven't had one for 19 games.

 

IMO the only players that  enhanced their reputations were Bissaka & James and Maguire was resolute.

 

OGS should have replaced Pereira, who contributed very little, much earlier for Greenwood.Giving the young lad 8 minutes is just a token gesture.

 

Pogba seemed to have his mind on deadline day ,he can forget that and get his head down and start creating.As a World Cup winner giving the ball away as much as he does of late is not acceptable.He knows it and its a litmus test of his character in coming weeks

 

International week has come at a bad time.The team needs the hairdryer treatment set on high

 

We are a very hit and miss team at the moment. Both in attack and defence..... but let's not forget, we have dominated the last 2 games from start to finish... this is is in stark contrast to times in the LVG and Jose eras.

 

I'd be tempted to drop Lindeloff for Tunazebe. Agree on Rashford, he can't be far from the chop either.

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, owl sees all said:

I think Pogba is not being used effectively. I would play him deeper. As in Valderrama, Blanchflower (Danny). Zidane, or Mick Hazard (at his best). Pulling the strings. Orchestrating the proceedings in front of him

I think we are on the same page Owl, although I'm not sure that when you say you would play Pogba "deeper" I'm not sure whether you mean nearer the defence or push him further forward?

 

IMO he should be allowed to push forward up the field rather than drop deep, not only because he is a worry to the opposition when he gets in front of the penalty area, with all of his tricks and his defence-splitting passes, but that if he were playing nearer our defensive line, he gives the ball away too much/loses control because he wants to play himself out of trouble and that is not the place to do it.

 

Some of the best midfield players who come to mind playing a role which pushes them further forward, would be the likes of Gerard, Lampard, Hazard and De Bruyne to name a few, and of course they score goals in the process as well as controlling play.

 

Totally agree with you as regards Pogba seemingly not having a role to play and not understanding his role, but surely that has to be the responsibility of the manager and I don't believe this manager has the nous to be able to set tactics, strategy and moves to be able to control a game.

[SantiSuk]

On 8/30/2019 at 11:23 AM, BangrakBob said:

With his EPL pedigree for Arsenal you'd have expected him to kick-on. I really thought he was going to be a fantastic acquisition and the potential cost of 81M would be justified in the end. 

Me too. Dog knows what's in his head.

[3 minus 2]

15 hours ago, Sparkles said:

Another tepid effort from United,5 points in 4 games against moderate opposition is just not good enough.

 

I get so frustrated when as in last nights game they go one up and then don't press the advantage. I've never been physically involved in a game, where as the commentator, said at 1-0 up "United are controlling the game" it wasn't even HT. You're not in control at 1-0 or even 2-0. 3 up you can perhaps just keep possession and feel comfortable. Young after the United goal was taking an age over throw ins like it was in extra time.He's captain he is supposed to set an example of moving the game along at pace

 

Rashford is starting to be a worry.I wouldn't give him more than 4/10 last night. Doesn't have the natural born instinct to be in the right place when the ball comes across the goal for a tap in or header.Strong in running in space but seems to be lost in the box.

 

For Southhampton's goal their CB is 6 ft 5" Lindelof was never going to out jump him so you get as close as possible and affect his jump and concentration instead of him having a free hit, its not illegal. United have had many "shortish" defenders Gary Neville ,Paul Parker,Dennis Irwin,come to mind none were big men but were instrumental by "suffocating" their opposition for clean sheets.United haven't had one for 19 games.

 

IMO the only players that  enhanced their reputations were Bissaka & James and Maguire was resolute.

 

OGS should have replaced Pereira, who contributed very little, much earlier for Greenwood.Giving the young lad 8 minutes is just a token gesture.

 

Pogba seemed to have his mind on deadline day ,he can forget that and get his head down and start creating.As a World Cup winner giving the ball away as much as he does of late is not acceptable.He knows it and its a litmus test of his character in coming weeks

 

International week has come at a bad time.The team needs the hairdryer treatment set on high

 

your right thwre are other ways of ' inhibiting' a jump and he should have done but cant have the size thing... being a geeky idiot .. i looked it up .. 3 inches diference... hardly towerung over him.. anyways .. shame bailly aint fit i'de still give him a go over the others that 1 st season he was CLASS that dont go away.. and at his age and bein a cb he SHOULD recover sufficently

Edited September 2, 2019 by wilai
profanity amended