Trump says if no China trade deal possible, 'I am a Tariff Man'

[webfact]

Trump says if no China trade deal possible, 'I am a Tariff Man'

By Doina Chiacu

 

U.S. President Donald Trump at the G20 leaders summit in Buenos Aires, Argentina December 1, 2018. REUTERS/Luisa Gonzalez

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump on Tuesday held out the possibility of an extension of the 90-day trade truce with China but warned he would revert to tariffs if the two sides could not resolve their differences.

 

Trump said his team of trade advisers led by China trade hawk U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer would determine whether a "REAL deal" with Beijing was possible.

 

"If it is, we will get it done," Trump wrote in a Twitter post. "But if not remember, I am a Tariff Man."

 

The threat of an escalating trade war between the world's two largest economies has loomed large over financial markets and the global economy for much of the year, and investors initially greeted the ceasefire agreed by Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping over the weekend with relief.

 

However, following Monday's rally, markets on Tuesday sold off as doubts over what could realistically get accomplished in the tight negotiating window added to concerns about fading global growth.

 

The Dow Jones Industrial Average <.DJI> fell more than 3 percent, the S&P 500 <.SPX> lost 3.2 percent and the Nasdaq Composite <.IXIC> tumbled 3.8 percent.[MKTS/GLOB]

 

The Republican president appeared to address one of the concerns by indicating he would not be opposed to extending the 90-day truce.

 

"The negotiations with China have already started. Unless extended, they will end 90 days from the date of our wonderful and very warm dinner with President Xi in Argentina," Trump tweeted.

 

Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin acknowledged investors' doubts over the talks' outcome. "The market is trying to figure out: 'Is there going to be a real deal at the end of 90 days or not?'" Mnuchin told the Wall Street Journal CEO Council.

 

Still, the meeting in Buenos Aires marked significant progress, he said, describing upcoming negotiations as historically significant because both leaders had agreed to delve into several specific issues.

 

White House trade adviser Peter Navarro told Fox News: "We have 90 days to see progress on that and I think it is premature for people to lose faith in that process."

 

He said the Chinese delegation to the G20 summit went to Panama after Buenos Aires and haven’t returned to China. "Let’s give this some time."

 

Trump and Xi said they would hold off on imposing additional tariffs for 90 days starting on Dec. 1 while they sought to resolve their trade disputes that have seen the flow of hundreds of billions of dollars worth of goods disrupted by tariffs.

 

Trump has said China is supposed to start buying agricultural products immediately and cut its 40 percent tariffs on U.S. car imports.

 

While Trump hailed the agreement with Xi "an incredible deal," a lack of detail from the Chinese side has left investors and analysts wondering if Trump's exuberance is warranted.

 

"It doesn’t seem like anything was actually agreed to at the dinner and White House officials are contorting themselves into pretzels to reconcile Trump’s tweets (which seem if not completely fabricated then grossly exaggerated) with reality," JPMorgan Chase said in a trading note.

 

White House economic adviser Larry Kudlow said on Tuesday that a reduction in Chinese tariffs on U.S. cars and agricultural and energy commodities would be a "litmus test" for whether U.S.-China trade talks were on track.

 

Washington also expects China to promptly address structural issues including intellectual property theft and forced technology transfers, U.S. officials have said.

 

White House National Security Adviser John Bolton told the Wall Street Journal event on Tuesday that Chinese theft of U.S. intellectual property was among the administration's top concerns.

 

He said the United States should look into a rule that would bar imports of Chinese products that used stolen U.S. intellectual property.

 

U.S. Representative Steve King, an Iowa Republican, in February 2017 introduced a bill that would have allowed the U.S. government to punish Chinese intellectual property theft by imposing duties on the country's imports.

 

The legislation, which was not put to a vote, envisaged using revenue raised by the duties to compensate those harmed by China's actions.

 

Trump has long accused China of unfair trade practices that hurt Americans and the U.S. economy.

 

"When people or countries come in to raid the great wealth of our Nation, I want them to pay for the privilege of doing so. It will always be the best way to max out our economic power," he said on Tuesday.

 

His appointment of Lighthizer to lead the talks instead of Treasury Secretary Mnuchin puts one of the administration's toughest China critics in charge. Trump said on Tuesday that Lighthizer would work closely with Mnuchin, Kudlow and Navarro.

 

(Reporting by Doina Chiacu and Jason Lange; Additiona reporting by Derek Francis, Jan Wolfe and Eric Beech; writing by Tomasz Janowski and Phil Stewart; editing by Susan Heavey, Susan Thomas and Sonya Hepinstall)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-12-05

 

[mtls2005]

Tariffs, no tariffs, truce, no truce, extension, no extension.

 

OMG, is he the worst negotiator ever?

 

And with the A-Team of Wilbur Ross, Steve Mnuchin, Larry Kudlow and Peter Navarro we're so hosed.

 

 

[Cryingdick]

He needs to stand by that. Like him or not his political life is on that statement now.

[ozmeldo]

17 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

Tariffs, no tariffs, truce, no truce, extension, no extension.

 

OMG, is he the worst negotiator ever?

 

And with the A-Team of Wilbur Ross, Steve Mnuchin, Larry Kudlow and Peter Navarro we're so hosed.

 

 

I'm not so certain about this.

 

A number of my favorite economists and commentators are against trade war, but in my heart it just seems right. Seriously, <deleted> the Chinese we all knoe their economy is based on theft.

 

It's like brexit, in my heart i know it's good for the British people

 

[Cryingdick]

4 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

I'm not so certain about this.

 

A number of my favorite economists and commentators are against trade war, but in my heart it just seems right. Seriously, <deleted> the Chinese we all knoe their economy is based on theft.

 

It's like brexit, in my heart i know it's good for the British people

 

 

China has to be opposed now at any cost or the USA will be played like fools. Can you imagine we send president Sanders later? 

[bristolboy]

14 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

I'm not so certain about this.

 

A number of my favorite economists and commentators are against trade war, but in my heart it just seems right. Seriously, <deleted> the Chinese we all knoe their economy is based on theft.

 

It's like brexit, in my heart i know it's good for the British people

 

You have your heart, Trump has his gut. In questions like this, my favorite bodily part is the brain.

[bristolboy]

12 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

 

China has to be opposed now at any cost or the USA will be played like fools. Can you imagine we send president Sanders later? 

The intelligent way to oppose China is stop it from buying technologically advanced companies and stop doing business with Chinese companies that cheat and pose a threat. This is already well under way in many advanced economies. As referenced in another thread, Trump had his big chance to show what he was made of in the case of ZTE. He folded.

[sfokevin]

I AM THE GREAT AND POWERFUL TARIFF MAN!... Pay no attention to the  ignorant man with the little hands who is about to lose his job behind the curtain...

Edited December 5, 2018 by sfokevin

[mikebike]

2 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

Can you imagine we send president Sanders later? 

One can only hope...

[4MyEgo]

One has to wonder how much money Trump and his buddies hidden behind the scenes are making out of the stock market with all its ups and downs, no doubt this is part of the game, for the good of the nation, right.

 

Sure, he might be preaching he is for the good for the good of the country, but at what cost to the country, I ain't no yankee, but IMO Trump is doodling his dandy at the cost of many by spooking markets with his tweeting amongst other forms, which he should not be able to do as someone who holds a position in office, CEO of companies can't, so why should he be able too.

[ozmeldo]

9 hours ago, bristolboy said:

The intelligent way to oppose China is stop it from buying technologically advanced companies and stop doing business with Chinese companies that cheat and pose a threat. This is already well under way in many advanced economies. As referenced in another thread, Trump had his big chance to show what he was made of in the case of ZTE. He folded.

What a delusional comment.

 

It's a kleptocracy writ large, they steal absolutely everything.

 

I used to work in a tech company in Massachusetts. It was a race to make as much money before they stole the technology and patents so that the owner could retire and take the bigger stakeholders with him while still sorta caring about us.

 

Your lost or a Communist or both

 

[ozmeldo]

Trump is a total hack but I will be LMAO when he gets the deal. China's position is weak and they are buckling. Only problem is the inscructables will agree to whatever like always, then keep the barriers, tarrifs, outright theft same as always. Chinese will never deal straight.

 

They need to hurt. Not in a war, too easy. That's not pain for Chinese. Money.

[farcanell]

9 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

 

China has to be opposed now at any cost or the USA will be played like fools. Can you imagine we send president Sanders later? 

MAGA!

 

or not... MAGA is a trump policy that gives other countries the finger, to varying depths.... so slap Americas president and support new stand alone trade deals, that aren’t overseen by the US, or influenced by US actions, like undermining the WTO.

 

if y’all back home in the land of apple pie want to elect a fool, y’all have to suck it up for the next two years... (maybe six if the love of winning so much, is working for you.)... and be played like fools.... or resort to amendment 25, if looking like a fool, doesn’t suit.

 

act alone... suffer alone..... karma

[farcanell]

On 12/5/2018 at 6:15 PM, ozmeldo said:

Trump is a total hack but I will be LMAO when he gets the deal. China's position is weak and they are buckling. Only problem is the inscructables will agree to whatever like always, then keep the barriers, tarrifs, outright theft same as always. Chinese will never deal straight.

 

They need to hurt. Not in a war, too easy. That's not pain for Chinese. Money.

I see you reference another poster as a delusional communist, above... and was wondering if you smoke, swallow, chew or snort your drugs.... I mean, each to his own, and all, but I was just wondering

 

in the comment attached, you seem certain that stumpy toad will win, yet go on to acknowledge that winning will be meaningless because of their (China’s) trade practices.... and I’m like... what?

 

once tarrifs bite, and the US farmers really start to hurtin’, They will have to undercut their grain prices, allowing China to buy billions in food stocks, thereby fixing the trade imbalance somewhat (glad to help ????).... MAGA!

[bristolboy]

21 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

What a delusional comment.

 

It's a kleptocracy writ large, they steal absolutely everything.

 

I used to work in a tech company in Massachusetts. It was a race to make as much money before they stole the technology and patents so that the owner could retire and take the bigger stakeholders with him while still sorta caring about us.

 

Your lost or a Communist or both

 

Was my comment delusional or was yours irrational? Already countries in Western Europe and Australia and New Zealand are turning down buyout bids from Chinese companies. And they are barring Chinese telecommunication companies from building networks.

 

[bristolboy]

On 12/5/2018 at 6:15 PM, ozmeldo said:

Trump is a total hack but I will be LMAO when he gets the deal. China's position is weak and they are buckling. Only problem is the inscructables will agree to whatever like always, then keep the barriers, tarrifs, outright theft same as always. Chinese will never deal straight.

 

They need to hurt. Not in a war, too easy. That's not pain for Chinese. Money.

On 12/5/2018 at 6:34 PM, farcanell said:

in the comment attached, you seem certain that stumpy toad will win, yet go on to acknowledge that winning will be meaningless because of their (China’s) trade practices.... and I’m like... what?

 

 

Damn! You beat me to it. 

[Kiwiken]

9 hours ago, bristolboy said:

The intelligent way to oppose China is stop it from buying technologically advanced companies and stop doing business with Chinese companies that cheat and pose a threat. This is already well under way in many advanced economies. As referenced in another thread, Trump had his big chance to show what he was made of in the case of ZTE. He folded.

The West gave China the tools with which it has built itself up. Now it has its own technology Companies which soon enough will compete with Western Companies in their own right. For a Century the West divided and played in China now China is awake and resurgent you cry foul. Such is the cycle of Trade , Business and innovation. how arrogant you think only Western Countries can lead.

Once it was European Dominance, The American, And for a short while Japan and Korea. For the next 30 -40 years it may well be China and then the cycle will dictate Change again.

It is only because the influence of the USA is in decline that the propaganda machine rails against China.

As with Japan in time China will lose her competitive edge. And another will get it back. As long as you trade and innovate there is a sustainable World economy. But knee jerk Trade Wars hurt the poorest Nations most and inevitably do little to change the status quo.

 

[bristolboy]

4 minutes ago, Kiwiken said:

The West gave China the tools with which it has built itself up. Now it has its own technology Companies which soon enough will compete with Western Companies in their own right. For a Century the West divided and played in China now China is awake and resurgent you cry foul. Such is the cycle of Trade , Business and innovation. how arrogant you think only Western Countries can lead.

Once it was European Dominance, The American, And for a short while Japan and Korea. For the next 30 -40 years it may well be China and then the cycle will dictate Change again.

It is only because the influence of the USA is in decline that the propaganda machine rails against China.

As with Japan in time China will lose her competitive edge. And another will get it back. As long as you trade and innovate there is a sustainable World economy. But knee jerk Trade Wars hurt the poorest Nations most and inevitably do little to change the status quo.

 

"Now it has its own technology Companies which soon enough will compete with Western Companies in their own right." In other words, not now, not yet.

 

So China isn't conducting state-sponsored industrial espionage big time? Really?

In a few areas like AI or 5G Chinese is either in advance or competitive. But mostly not yet. 

[bristolboy]

To be fair to Trump, a thing I hate to do, the reason China could be downplaying the outcome of its negotiations with Trump is because it doesn't want to look like it gave ground. So it may go ahead and buy soybeans and pork but not publicize it.

[Pedrogaz]

What has happened since tariffs were introduced? Well, the trade deficit with China has actually increased. 

Trade wars are easy to start but they might not be as easy to win as Mr Trump told us.

[Redline]

Looks like tariff man is going to be facing the tax man soon ????

[ballpoint]

[Tug]

Well we all know Donald follows his gut we all know what the end of the gut is so we have a good idea we’re our economy is headed rite down the toilet

[joecoolfrog]

12 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

 

China has to be opposed now at any cost or the USA will be played like fools. Can you imagine we send president Sanders later? 

That argument may well have some validity but the question is whether Trump should be anywhere near the negotiations. He has already made a fool of himself with his ' Trade wars are easy to win ' comment , gunboat diplomacy doesn't work with major economies such as China.

[joecoolfrog]

On 12/5/2018 at 6:15 PM, ozmeldo said:

Trump is a total hack but I will be LMAO when he gets the deal. China's position is weak and they are buckling. Only problem is the inscructables will agree to whatever like always, then keep the barriers, tarrifs, outright theft same as always. Chinese will never deal straight.

 

They need to hurt. Not in a war, too easy. That's not pain for Chinese. Money.

I would be interested in why you think Chinas position is any weaker than that of the USA. Both economies suffer from a trade war , only Trump has to answer to an electorate though.

 

[Kiwiken]

On 12/5/2018 at 11:56 AM, bristolboy said:

"Now it has its own technology Companies which soon enough will compete with Western Companies in their own right." In other words, not now, not yet.

 

So China isn't conducting state-sponsored industrial espionage big time? Really?

In a few areas like AI or 5G Chinese is either in advance or competitive. But mostly not yet. 

And of Course all other Countries do not. That is naive. Even so called Allies Spy on each other

[Langsuan Man]

Geez, Tariff Man doesn't even understand that consumers pay the tariffs, not the country of origin 

[bristolboy]

4 hours ago, Kiwiken said:

And of Course all other Countries do not. That is naive. Even so called Allies Spy on each other

Nothing like the Chinese. Chinese companies can't say no to the government. There is no rule of law there that restricts government action. In the USA the government has often failed in trying to get technology companies to cooperate. Courts have sided with corporations against the government. Has that ever happened in China?

[Peterw42]

No need for any new trade deals, Like NAFTA, just rename the old one and claim a major achievement.

[bristolboy]

10 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

No need for any new trade deals, Like NAFTA, just rename the old one and claim a major achievement.

Actually, that's pretty close to what the new agreement is. Which means that if the old NAFTA agreement was a disaster to use Trump's word, so is the new one.