BREAKING NEWS Thai immigration reveals new requirements for retirement, marriage extensions (visas)

[sambum]

1 minute ago, billd766 said:

Me too.

 

I have adopted Ubonjoe's way of doing it.

 

Wait until it is official written down from Immigration and see what it is like then.

 

Is the post not about official information from Thai Immigration? It also appears that a bit of forward planning may be needed if you need to have 12 month's worth of deposits paid into a Thai bank. However, I am going tp wait for the "official English translation" before making any plans/decisions!

[NoshowJones]

7 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

It does should read international transfer 

I think you may not be an English Native Speaker, so I do not know what you mean.

[sometimewoodworker]

Just now, possum1931 said:

I think you may not be an English Native Speaker, so I do not know what you mean.

I am, are you? And if you read the previous question then the answer is self-explanatory, though a comma after the second word would help.

 

Take the time to read through and there is your answer

[mfd101]

2 hours ago, wonder6281 said:

I receive my Superannuation pension fortnightly. 

 

I make 26 transfers annually. 

 

Divided by 12 months gives me my average monthly income. 

 

If this fails to meet the new requirements then nothing will and I'm out of here. 

 

Some Common sense does reside here I hope. 

So why can't you organize yourself to do just 12 transfers a year? Is that so hard?

[JLCrab]

9 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Returning some portion to invest it would not violate the rules, which specify the need for an "income of" x - but does not specify how it should/must be spent.

At least not so far the rub being how much is "some".

[ThaiWai]

7 hours ago, sfokevin said:

Given Thai Immigration want to see it transferred every month you may have a problem?... 

Not to mention his "never had a problem before" mentality completely ignores that there are new rules.  I hope he goes down to immigration and says he's gonna do it the old way and see how that works.

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, steve73 said:

If Thai Immigration want to see a MINIMUM monthly income of 65k, then some of these payment schedules will clearly be unsuitable; even the 2-weekly payment may fail in most months with only 2 payments, but averaging out the 3 payments would be sufficient. 

 

But IF Thai Immigration wants to see an AVERAGE monthly income coming into Thailand of 65k, then this can be achieved by ensuring a total of 780k over the preceding year.  This could be achieved by making a single payment of 780k at any time in the year before applying for your extension.

I'm not sure that they will accept an "average". If someone has an income of at least 65K pm (the requirement) why would they transfer less. 

 

However, it already seems clear that there must be at least 12 transfers in the previous year.

 

2 hours ago, steve73 said:

So the options for obtaining the retirement extension now become either to ensure a total of 780k is transferred from overseas during the year, or to ensure a minimum of 800k is maintained in your Thai bank for 3 months before applying (which suggest there is no requirement to show funds actually coming into Thailand from overseas). 

The funds (800K) is supposed to come from abroad, but at the moment they do not enforce that.

 

2 hours ago, steve73 said:

This "income" method also raises the possibility of using the SAME 780k payment for 2 successive extensions.  I.e. if your Extension is due say 31st Jan, then you can satisfy the income requirement by bringing in 780k on say the 25th, and then doing you extension.  Next year, you could do your extension up to 30 days early, and the 780k would still be in the preceding year.  Not sure if they would pick this up...?

Not if they insist on 12 transfers in the year. And I doubt they would accept 12 transfers during December.

 

It is clearly supposed to be a minimum income the applicant receives monthly that they have available transfer to Thailand monthly.

[Henryford]

12 minutes ago, sambum said:

Is the post not about official information from Thai Immigration? It also appears that a bit of forward planning may be needed if you need to have 12 month's worth of deposits paid into a Thai bank. However, I am going tp wait for the "official English translation" before making any plans/decisions!

My extension is due this June. I normally do a transfer once or twice a year to equal 65k a month. It is too late now for me to do 12 monthly transfers this year. Am i F***** even if i have 800k in the bank in June.

[fforest1]

7 hours ago, kwak250 said:

I bet the immigration officers are all sat around laughing at us all while reading these comments.

I must admit if they change the 400k in the bank rule i would be well and truly forked.

 Folks all this visa tightening and convoluted and complicated rules and requirements that are constantly changing.....IS NO ACCIDENT....

What the end game result they want is open for debate....Do they want some of the farang to leave?....Do they want most of the farang to leave?....Do they want all the farang to leave?.......

 

The only secure visa seems to be the elite visa...

 

 

 

  

[ginjag]

Any ex pat on a UK old age pension maximum 30,000 baht a month will have to leave.    I wonder how many will be affected  ???   more than these so called wealthy on here realize.    

[Maestro]

1 minute ago, Henryford said:

Am i F***** even if i have 800k in the bank in June.

That depends on your sexual activity.

[TKDfella]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

It does not show it yet and may not be updated for some time.

Yes, Thai immigration are very slow at this.

[mfd101]

1 hour ago, rossco1 said:

They are making it harder for people to move here 

do they not want foreigners to live in the country 

No, they just want to make sure that everyone who comes here to live longterm really does have enough income on a continuing basis to live comfortably.

[elviajero]

35 minutes ago, ginjag said:

Think no bank deposits here sitting for NOWT, no hassle from income as most expats only on UK Pension do NOT have the amount paid to them (40,000 a month, UK pension is only 30,000..  To think 1,500 UK pound to stay here hassle free no headaches about income...

Where do you get the idea that it would drive ex pats away,   Pay 60,000 baht and 1 year freedom,   why come out with driving expats away.??? 

Because you are asking people spending 1,900 baht a year for "1 years freedom" to pay 60,000 baht. That does not make any sense. You need money to live on in Thailand so transfers need to be made or money held in the bank even if you paid 60,000. Yes you could get away with smaller transfers or less in the bank etc, but to pay 60K for the privilege would. IMO, be nuts. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, Henryford said:

My extension is due this June. I normally do a transfer once or twice a year to equal 65k a month. It is too late now for me to do 12 monthly transfers this year. Am i F***** even if i have 800k in the bank in June.

 

1. if you have a recent Embassy income letter, it should be good for 6 months from the date of issue, including up to the first half of 2019 if you got it at the very end of 2018.

 

2. there's some indication in the translated version of the Immigration memo here that Immigration will recognize the suddenness of the changeover and provide some flexibility on the 12 months requirement just for this first year. So in other words, if you starting doing your monthly transfers now and continued them thru June as required when you next apply, you SHOULD be OK. 

[fforest1]

2 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

No, they just want to make sure that everyone who comes here to live longterm really does have enough income on a continuing basis to live comfortably.

Wrong wrong......Just from 4 countries...

[cmarshall]

7 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

It's boggling to me that Thai Immigration often fails to provide their own official English translations of their own rules. I mean, apart from the Thai IOs enforcing them, it's the often English speaking or at least understanding foreigners who have to follow them. And that would be made a lot easier and clearer for a lot of folks if Immigration provided their own rules in English!

 

And just how long has it been that you are not in Kansas anymore?  

[ChokDee4213]

There are a lot of people saying that proof of income can be had from using your bankbook and a letter from your bank verifying monthly transfers of 40,000 baht. Can anyone direct me to confirmation or evidence of this, or is this just preferred interpretation at this point? Forgive me, 37 pages is a lot to sift through.

 

The way I see it, this method would do nothing to confirm the source of the "income" in this way. Someone could easily use a foreign account to cycle 40k per month to and fro to achieve the same effect, no?

 

If it is up to individual immigrations, I'm screwed, because the one in my province would happily eliminate the income route altogether to further extort tea money from applicants without the requisite seasoned 400k.

[elviajero]

34 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

OK Thanks -- so if someone started making qualifying deposits JAN 2019 by  mid-2019 there should maybe be so solid indication based on actual extensions as to what works and what if any backup might be required.

I would say so, yes. They have to come up with an interim arrangement because the earliest they can, based on the new rules, insist on 12 months of transfers would be January/February 2020.

 

That and how they deal with first time applicants was the main issue, and I still haven't heard/seen the official solution.

[NoshowJones]

7 hours ago, sfokevin said:

Yes knowing that there are people out there planning to scam the new system and make Immigration most likely crack down even more  on us law abiding expatriates alleviates many of our concerns... 

They crack down as much as they can on us already, about the only way they can crack down any more is by making those of us on retirement or marriage extensions, make us report every 60 days instead of every ninety days, or even increase the 400.000 or 800.000 we have to keep in our bank accounts.

When the new system is up and running, people will obviously do what they can to make things as easy as possible for them and quite rightly so, probably involving agents. Nothing to do with scamming.

[elviajero]

30 minutes ago, Maestro said:

You are right, past Police Orders and Immigration Bureau Orders regarding the criteria and documentation requirements for extensions of stay were apparently only published on the website of the Immigration Bureau. If the document of 26 December 2018 is merely an internal guideline, it may not necessarily be published on the immigration website but hopefully it will be. At the moment it is not on https://www.immigration.go.th/order

That's right. Technically we still haven't had a public announcement confirming this additional way to prove income. It might not come, but I would have thought at the very least they would issue a formal announcement to the embassies.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 minutes ago, ginjag said:

Any ex pat on a UK old age pension maximum 30,000 baht a month will have to leave.    I wonder how many will be affected  ???   more than these so called wealthy on here realize.    

 

You realize,  the term "pension" in the OP article here, in all likelihood, doesn't mean ONLY pensions in the traditional sense, but rather any source of funds that a person has available to transfer into Thailand on a monthly basis.

 

So if I UK person took their UK pension, and added it together with interest earnings, rental income, stock dividends and anything else, and THEN transferred 40K or 65K into Thailand each month they'd be perfectly fine.

 

But, if they can't scrape together 40K or 65K per month to send to Thailand from all their sources of income, and don't have 400K or 800K sitting in a Thai bank deposit, (or a combination of income and bank deposits for retirement extensions) then yes, they're going to have to look at other solutions other than marriage or retirement extensions of stay.

[wobalt]

Not receive pension payments from my home . But invested heavily in Thailand- assets like condos, companies or in gold for that purpose. So no foreign source?

 

 

Gesendet von iPhone mit Thaivisa Connect

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

And just how long has it been that you are not in Kansas anymore?  

 

If the common sense of what I posted above about the value of providing Immigration policies in the languages of the people who actually rely on them eludes you, I can't offer any solution.

 

Other than, that common sense has never been a particular attribute of government policies here in Thailand. They tend to feel no obligation to do things to improve the services they provide, or make them accessible, to their various service users.

 

Every time Thai Immigration comes out with a Thai language only policy and leaves most of their customers having to rely on 3rd party translations that may or may not be entirely accurate, it's just another reminder of that fact.

 

Edited January 6, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[mfd101]

7 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

Wrong wrong......Just from 4 countries...

Time will tell.

[steve73]

15 minutes ago, elviajero said:

I'm not sure that they will accept an "average". If someone has an income of at least 65K pm (the requirement) why would they transfer less. 

 

However, it already seems clear that there must be at least 12 transfers in the previous year.

 

The funds (800K) is supposed to come from abroad, but at the moment they do not enforce that.

 

Not if they insist on 12 transfers in the year. And I doubt they would accept 12 transfers during December.

 

It is clearly supposed to be a minimum income the applicant receives monthly that they have available transfer to Thailand monthly.

As I stated in my original post (but which you carefully omitted when you quoted me), many people don't get their pensions paid monthly.. some are only paid quarterly, or annually...

 

Also, some people travel either back home or to other countries for a few months of the year - why then should they have to transfer money to T/L every month if they're not actually here..

[mngmn]

9 hours ago, Eligius said:

On the face of it, this looks EXTREMELY worrying for British retirees here. The irresponsible action of the British embassy in not confirming a retiree's income flow could be the death knell for many Brits here. Also, as far as I understand it, the British Government will not send pensions into a Thai bank account (only into a British one), and not every British bank will automatically forward a pension to a bank account in Thailand every month. Maybe I am wrong. 

 

Perhaps it is not as bad as I fear. What do other members think?

 

 

 

 

I have my UK pension paid into a Transferwise Borderless Account.  DWP queried the account number at first but I told them to go ahead and enter the account details.  Have been receiving payments for nearly six months now with no problems.  I also get some UK share dividends paid into the same account.  I can convert the GBP to THB at any time *without* making a transfer to a Thai bank.  Transferwise hold the funds in THB until I am ready to make transfer.  This means I can take advantage of favourable exchange rates at any time during the month.  I can also transfer exactly 65k to satisfy TI requirements without worrying about exchange rate fluctuations.  Bangkok Bank shows the transaction as an international transfer but does not deduct any fee. 

 

I can also operate full bank accounts in USD, EUR and AUD if I wish to and convert and hold these funds in most major currencies.

 

Please, before commenting that DWP will not transfer the money to Thailand using Transferwise, Google 'Borderless Account' and read carefully.

Edited January 6, 2019 by mngmn

[NoshowJones]

8 hours ago, onera1961 said:

It is even better. No need for seasoning and less than money required for seasoning. Though I am on an O-A visa right now. I still bring 15,000 every week. I should bump it up to 5K every month + 15K every week. Was planning to use an agent in 2020, But it looks like I don't need an agent anymore. Even if I use an agent to avoid hassle with immigration, I can bargain with them for a good price like 5/7K as I don't need to borrow money from them

There will always be ways of immigration and agents working together to fill their pockets, so some of us will always have to use an agent.

[AGareth2]

1 minute ago, steve73 said:

Also, some people travel either back home or to other countries for a few months of the year - why then should they have to transfer money to T/L every month if they're not actually here..

could they not then get their annual visa in their home country?

[Moonlover]

6 hours ago, EL159 said:

Right. I ve read every page every post. Theres 2 hours of my life I ll never get back. Its as clear as day for me regarding the remittance method. "Show an average monthly income of 65,000". Fine. So given the word "average", and lets keep this simple, if you bring in and show 200,000 four times a year, that comes to a total of 800,000 divided by twelve equals about 66,000 per month.

Both your math and your logic are quite correct. But I've reread the O/Ps presentation and I did not see the word 'average' at all. All I saw was this:

 

2.       Evidence of a pension. Letter of certification from a Thai bank supported by bank statements showing a pension being transferred to the pensioner’s bank account every month for at least 12 months.

 

Hmm. Could be problematic for some. Just how flexible are TI likely to be is anyone's guess.