Britons would now vote to stay in EU, want second referendum: poll

[melvinmelvin]

Having had my first Belhaven of the day

I will offer another unpopular aside

 

Christianity is an important part of UK society, bishops and the like are people in high regard

even old Liz plays around with Jesus and God when it suits her

 

 

Just to have that noted, I do agree that mini JRMs should not suffer 'cause JRMs doings - or non doings.

 

If you guys here 60-70 or + years old

look into yours or your parent's textbooks in primary school when you started to learn about Christianity

and the blessings of God and Jesus and the like

 

you should find NUMEROUS examples of - if anyone strays from the right and narrow path

God will punish, not only him but also his family and children and childrenchildren and childrenchildrenchildren

all the way - 7 levels,

this was actually lectured pretty much all over Europe only 60 years ago

 

so, banging JRM's children for JRM's crap is pretty much in line with good Christian tradition

 

say no more

 

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

Having had my first Belhaven of the day

I will offer another unpopular aside

 

Christianity is an important part of UK society, bishops and the like are people in high regard

even old Liz plays around with Jesus and God when it suits her

 

 

Just to have that noted, I do agree that mini JRMs should not suffer 'cause JRMs doings - or non doings.

 

If you guys here 60-70 or + years old

look into yours or your parent's textbooks in primary school when you started to learn about Christianity

and the blessings of God and Jesus and the like

 

you should find NUMEROUS examples of - if anyone strays from the right and narrow path

God will punish, not only him but also his family and children and childrenchildren and childrenchildrenchildren

all the way - 7 levels,

this was actually lectured pretty much all over Europe only 60 years ago

 

so, banging JRM's children for JRM's crap is pretty much in line with good Christian tradition

 

say no more

 

I wouldn't say that Christianity is important in the UK, over 70% of our citizens don't identify with religion now. I am sure that even the hierarchy are just going through the motions these days, because it seems the right thing to do.

70 years ago is not now, attacking JR Moggs children is IMO nothing to do with religion, it has more to do with common decency.

[welovesundaysatspace]

27 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

[nauseus]

34 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Not this remainer. It would have been the sensible way to do things. Negotiate a deal and the put it to the public vote. Brexiteers wouldn't want this as, be honest, they know which way the vote would go. Which is why Brexiteers are dead set against another referendum.

How sensible is negotiating a deal for something that had not been voted on or for? Be honest.

[Spidey]

12 minutes ago, nauseus said:

How sensible is negotiating a deal for something that had not been voted on or for? Be honest.

As the government has  mandate to govern on our behalf (no referendum needed at any point), it would be by far the most sensible thing to do. That way we would know what we are actually voting on, which no one did in 2016.

[nauseus]

31 minutes ago, Spidey said:

As the government has  mandate to govern on our behalf (no referendum needed at any point), it would be by far the most sensible thing to do. That way we would know what we are actually voting on, which no one did in 2016.

The EU has no obligation to negotiate any withdrawal or arrangements for one without A50 being triggered (referendum or parliamentary vote required). You sound like the EU would voluntarily go through that just for practice and the benefit of the UK. Don't think so but you are welcome to Keep dreaming,

 

If you didn't understand what you were voting for in 2016 then I hope you didn't vote at all!

 

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

Not this remainer. It would have been the sensible way to do things. Negotiate a deal and the put it to the public vote. Brexiteers wouldn't want this as, be honest, they know which way the vote would go. Which is why Brexiteers are dead set against another referendum.

For 'Dead set against' read 'Know it won't happen because...' & that's from a Brexiter with no fear whatsoever for something that would only increase the margin by which the opposition were roundly beaten if such folly was attempted.

[Spidey]

9 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The EU has no obligation to negotiate any withdrawal or arrangements for one without A50 being triggered (referendum or parliamentary vote required). You sound like the EU would voluntarily go through that just for practice and the benefit of the UK. Don't think so but you are welcome to Keep dreaming,

 

If you didn't understand what you were voting for in 2016 then I hope you didn't vote at all!

 

I did say that Article 50 should be triggered first. The EU would then have been obligated to negotiate withdrawal terms. No choice in the matter.

 

Without knowing the details of the withdrawal terms, no one could have possibly known the consequences of leaving the EU.

[evadgib]

22 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Without knowing the details of the withdrawal terms, no one could have possibly known the consequences of leaving the EU.

Out is out regardless of consequences. History will show who was right.

[JonnyF]

25 minutes ago, Spidey said:

I did say that Article 50 should be triggered first. The EU would then have been obligated to negotiate withdrawal terms. No choice in the matter.

 

Without knowing the details of the withdrawal terms, no one could have possibly known the consequences of leaving the EU.

Even when we know the withdrawal terms, nobody knows the consequences of leaving and we won't for several years. Same as we don't know the consequences of staying in.

 

The point is that the people voted to Leave. We didn't vote for a deal. We didn't vote to pay them 39 Billion pounds for some fluffy language about "best endeavors to ensure a trade deal by 2020" with absolutely no legally binding guarantees. 39 Billion for a vague promise that the EU will try their best? I trust the EU about as much as I trust Bangkok cops. No thanks, I'd rather keep the 39 Billion for dealing with any short term issues that result from a clean Brexit.

 

No Deal is the closest thing to honoring the vote. We can negotiate a trade deal later, same as we would under May's withdrawal agreement. Until then, WTO is fine unless you believe trade is not possible amongst the other 168 countries in the World who are not in the EU.

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

The point is that the people voted to Leave. We didn't vote for a deal.

People didn’t vote for a no-deal Brexit. They voted for lots of castle in the sky and pink unicorns. 

 

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

We didn't vote to pay them 39 Billion pounds for some fluffy language about "best endeavors to ensure a trade deal by 2020" with absolutely no legally binding guarantees. 39 Billion for a vague promise that the EU will try their best?

The 39bn are not a bargaining chip. They don’t have anything to do with a deal. They are the UKs existing payment obligations and have to be paid anyways. Maybe sign up for a 12-months True phone contract, then cancel after 6 months and tell them they will only get the remaining 6 months if they guarantee you using their service for half the price in the future. Good luck with that. 

 

[evadgib]

5 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Even when we know the withdrawal terms, nobody knows the consequences of leaving and we won't for several years. Same as we don't know the consequences of staying in.

 

The point is that the people voted to Leave. We didn't vote for a deal. We didn't vote to pay them 39 Billion pounds for some fluffy language about "best endeavors to ensure a trade deal by 2020" with absolutely no legally binding guarantees. 39 Billion for a vague promise that the EU will try their best? I trust the EU about as much as I trust Bangkok cops. No thanks, I'd rather keep the 39 Billion for dealing with any short term issues that result from a clean Brexit.

 

No Deal is the closest thing to honoring the vote. We can negotiate a trade deal later, same as we would under May's withdrawal agreement. Until then, WTO is fine unless you believe trade is not possible amongst the other 168 countries in the World who are not in the EU.

Cameron dropped the ball by not getting on with it from day one & keeping his hand on the money tap until they were brought to heel. Maggie would have eaten them for breakfast!

[AlexRich]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

Glasses and hearing aid in the post.

Did you order them for yourself on Amazon? You certainly need them. Attack verbally? A softly spoken old man ... tells a kid his dad’s not a very nice man. Whilst I don’t approve of what he did he certainly did not attack the kid verbally, or any other way.

[AlexRich]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

Glasses and hearing aid in the post.

Did you order them for yourself on Amazon? You certainly need them. Attack verbally? A softly spoken old man ... tells a kid his dad’s not a very nice man. Whilst I don’t approve of what he did he certainly did not attack the kid verbally, or any other way.

[AlexRich]

Said twice for the hard of hearing. 

[AlexRich]

2 hours ago, HAKAPALITA said:

Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

The sort of meme designed by salt of the earth types who failed to attain a tertiary education, and like to feel a bit better about themselves by sneering at those who did.

 

My experience of these types is that they, later in life, bore the pants off people telling them how intelligent and well qualified their university educated children are. 

[evadgib]

16 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

People didn’t vote for a no-deal Brexit.

Correct, we (only) voted to leave.

16 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

They voted for lots of castle in the sky and pink unicorns. 

When appealing for humour & banter I had hoped for a little more effort TBH. You'll know if you're doing it properly by counting the enemy smileys.

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, vogie said:

I wouldn't say that Christianity is important in the UK, over 70% of our citizens don't identify with religion now. I am sure that even the hierarchy are just going through the motions these days, because it seems the right thing to do.

70 years ago is not now, attacking JR Moggs children is IMO nothing to do with religion, it has more to do with common decency.

The sins of the father shall not be visited upon the sons

[Spidey]

50 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Correct, we (only) voted to leave.

When appealing for humour & banter I had hoped for a little more effort TBH. You'll know if you're doing it properly by counting the enemy smileys.

Currently 4 -1 to @welovesundaysatspace.

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, Grouse said:

The sins of the father shall not be visited upon the sons

Don't judge others because they sin differenly to you.

[Loiner]

[quote post=
 
Of course you won’t ... as the will of the people is to Remain.


Of course it’s not....the will of the people was to leave. We had a referendum remember?


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[melvinmelvin]

4 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

In what way did he verbally attack a child? That never actually happened, did it?

I dunno,

desktops - laptops and their screens and loudspeakers are different

on my screen on my laptop this grown up chap was clearly verbal - loudly - and throwing crap at the children

 

dunno about the children though - maybe JRM's maybe not - but the message they got

 

apparently this kind of abuse is good fare in the UK

the police chaps in the middle did not lift an eyebrow

 

[CG1 Blue]

17 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

That's ridiculous. The benefit that the UK derives from its EU membership in the form of gdp percentage points is many times higher than the eu payment contribution

It's impossible to calculate the benefit to the UK's GDP from being in the EU. There are too many moving parts. Who's to say the UK economy would not have been doing just as well, or even better if we'd not been tied into the EU? Nobody can prove either way. 

 

If we'd have escaped before Maastricht in 1992, as an independent country the UK government, the BoE and UK companies would have taken different economic decisions along the way in order to remain competitive. Just as we will after Brexit. 

 

 

[AlexRich]

35 minutes ago, Loiner said:

[quote post=
 
Of course you won’t ... as the will of the people is to Remain.


Of course it’s not....the will of the people was to leave. We had a referendum remember?


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Every leaver talks about how the second vote would be for leave, they’d romp home, no bother at all. But none are willing to put that to the test? Wonder why?

[AlexRich]

36 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

I dunno,

desktops - laptops and their screens and loudspeakers are different

on my screen on my laptop this grown up chap was clearly verbal - loudly - and throwing crap at the children

 

dunno about the children though - maybe JRM's maybe not - but the message they got

 

apparently this kind of abuse is good fare in the UK

the police chaps in the middle did not lift an eyebrow

 

When did he throw crap at the children? I missed that bit. 

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Every leaver talks about how the second vote would be for leave, they’d romp home, no bother at all. But none are willing to put that to the test? Wonder why?

Wrong again. A second vote is talked about most by remainers and little by very few leavers. Your idea, you can talk about it but don't expect to get it. 

[evadgib]

17 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Every leaver talks about how the second vote would be for leave, they’d romp home, no bother at all. But none are willing to put that to the test? Wonder why?

...none?

 

a) "Bring it on" (thats Brexit-speak for 'yes please if it'll finally shut them up') &

 

b  ) IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN despite the above because to do so would render our entire political system obsolete and could quite possibly lead UK into something akin to civil war.

[ukrules]

3 hours ago, Spidey said:

That way we would know what we are actually voting on, which no one did in 2016.

 

This is a direct link to the extensive 16 page pro European Union propaganda leaflet delivered to every home in the UK by the government prior to the referendum. The point of this expensive leaflet was to inform all the people of the issues and exactly what they're voting for.

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515068/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf

 

It spells out their fears in great detail. Delivered to every home in the country.

 

To think that nobody knew what they're voting on is a distortion.

 

This is the best bit of the whole document :

 

 

Once in a generation, come back in 20 years if you want another run at this, the decision has been made.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Spidey said:

I did say that Article 50 should be triggered first. The EU would then have been obligated to negotiate withdrawal terms. No choice in the matter.

 

Without knowing the details of the withdrawal terms, no one could have possibly known the consequences of leaving the EU.

This is what has happened already. Referendum -> OUT won -> A50 triggered -> rubbish negotiations -> MESS. No A50 trigger means no negotiations means no specific information on any deal. The situation is a mess because the whole exit process has been poorly managed.  

 

You are trying to argue two points (I think). The full consequences of leaving the EU were not known then, still aren't known now and won't be known for years. The majority simply voted to leave the EU. They didn't vote for a game of Chequers. 

[evadgib]

7 minutes ago, ukrules said:

 

This is a direct link to the extensive 16 page pro European Union propaganda leaflet delivered to every home in the UK by the government prior to the referendum. The point of this expensive leaflet was to inform all the people of the issues and exactly what they're voting for.

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515068/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf

 

It spells out their fears in great detail. Delivered to every home in the country.

 

To think that nobody knew what they're voting on is a distortion.

 

This is the best bit of the whole document :

 

 

Once in a generation, come back in 20 years if you want another run at this, the decision has been made.

Likewise i am not aware of anyone whose decision was changed as a result of reading that. Out meant OUT from the onset and hasn't changed.