Britons would now vote to stay in EU, want second referendum: poll

[evadgib]

3 hours ago, Spidey said:

The Brexiteers mantra to the mods: "Please immediately delete any pro remain posts, I have no answer to them"

Its far more sporting to knock 'em off during open forum but gets a bit tedious when they're unable to keep up... 

Edited January 12, 2019 by evadgib

[welovesundaysatspace]

19 minutes ago, Chartist said:

 

Man your desperation makes me laugh, a referendum announced by the Prime Minister and ratified by parliament, a referendum that the Prime Minister promised to enact on the results, a referendum with the largest ever turn out in British history, and you deem it a manipulated opinion pole.

I “deem it a manipulated opinion poll”

because it was. Lies, misinformation, false promises, Russian interference — all that cannot be undone by saying that Cameron promised you something he could never keep. 

 

Quote

 

Yes it was manipulated the remain campaigns project fear was full of lies like Osborne's threat of a punishment budget. But the majority of the British electorate were not phased and voted leave, now we wait for the results to be enacted as promised by not just one but two Prime Ministers.

Wait, so you admit the opinion poll was manipulated, yet you still  expect parliament to somehow “enact” it’s result and that’s what you call democracy then?

 

Again, I am telling you that you must face reality: The U.K. is a parliamentary representative democracy, not a totalitarian banana republic governed by manipulated opinion polls. Parliament has the constitutional right AND duty to cancel this fraud called Brexit. And they will. 

 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2019 by welovesundaysatspace

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Patriot1066 said:

Everyone I know still wants to leave 

Not at all surprised

[anon676545345]

4 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

I “deem it a manipulated opinion poll”

because it was. Lies, misinformation, false promises, Russian interference — all that cannot be undone by saying that Cameron promised you something he could never keep. 

 

Wait, so you admit the opinion poll was manipulated, yet you still  expect parliament to somehow “enact” it’s result and that’s what you call democracy then?

 

Again, I am telling you that you must face reality: The U.K. is a parliamentary representative democracy, not a totalitarian banana republic governed by manipulated opinion polls. Parliament has the constitutional right AND duty to cancel this fraud called Brexit.

 

Haha it was the Russians was it, jeez take that tin foil hat off and get out of the basement you loon. Of course I expect the results of the referendum to be implemented, if I didn't why the hell would I have voted? 46,500.000 other people voted in that referendum which means they also expected the result to stand one way or the other or why would they have bothered to vote. To ignore the will of the people is totalitarian and that's a simple indisputable fact.

[tomacht8]

1 hour ago, Chartist said:

 

Before the referendum £1 was equal to £1 after the referendum £1 was equal to £1 your analogy only works if a foreign investor bout UK stocks sold them then converted his investment back into his own currency. 

Logical. You always fuel up your car for 20 pounds. If gasoline prices go up that does not affect you. Because you always fill up for 20 pounds. Lol

[Loiner]

52 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Another option would be to accept that the UK is a parliamentary representative democracy not a dictatorship by manipulated opinion polls. Of course, Brexiteer can resort to violence and riot; that has always been the preferred way of the enemies of our free democracies to harm us. In the end, any such hooligans and anarchists will be dealt with properly by the law enforcement authorities. 

Not a dictatorship by manipulated opinion polls: 

Agreed entirely, especially those calling for more referenda or reversing Brexit. Carrying out the will of the majority in the 2016 Referendum is their parliamentary duty.

 

Violence and riot, hooligans and anarchists:

Exclusively the default option of the Left wing. Aren't these the same ones who are supporting the calls for Remain?

 

Free democracy:
Well you'll never see that from the EU.

 

Do you remember the Poll Tax riots? Rent-a-mob were back out for all the Remain protests. I would be sad but not surprised to see much worse on our streets if a proper Brexit is not achieved. 

 

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

3 minutes ago, Chartist said:

 

Haha it was the Russians was it, jeez take that tin foil hat off and get out of the basement you loon

It’s not my problem if you prefer to ignore the facts and live in lala land instead. 

 

3 minutes ago, Chartist said:

. Of course I expect the results of the referendum to be implemented, if I didn't why the hell would I have voted? 46,500.000 other people voted in that referendum which means they also expected the result to stand one way or the other or why would they have bothered to vote.

It’s also not my problem that you and everyone else didn’t bother to read your own constitution to understand that Cameron made a promise that he could never guarantee. 

 

But isn’t it ironic how Brexiteers won this opinion poll with lots of false promises while they also fell for Cameron’s false promise? What a big house of cards Brexit. Amazing how anyone in his right mind could call that democratic. 

 

3 minutes ago, Chartist said:

To ignore the will of the people is totalitarian and that's a simple indisputable fact.

Calling a manipulated opinion poll democracy is totalitarian and that’s a simple indisputable fact. It’s also a simple indisputable fact that you don’t know what the will of the people is as the opinion poll was manipulated. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

6 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Not a dictatorship by manipulated opinion polls: 

Agreed entirely, especially those calling for more referenda or reversing Brexit. Carrying out the will of the majority in the 2016 Referendum is their parliamentary duty.

You don’t know what the will of the majority of the 2016 opinion poll is because it was manipulated. 

 

And parliament is sovereign. Nowhere does the constitution or law say they need to in any way implement an opinion poll because a former prime minister made that false promise. 

 

6 minutes ago, Loiner said:

 

Violence and riot, hooligans and anarchists:

Exclusively the default option of the Left wing. Aren't these the same ones who are supporting the calls for Remain?

No, it were the Brexiteers here suggesting riot and violence shouldn’t they get it their way. Just scroll up. 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Loiner said:

 

Free democracy:
Well you'll never see that from the EU.

We already have it. 

 

 

[anon676545345]

2 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

It’s not my problem if you prefer to ignore the facts and live in lala land instead. 

 

It’s also not my problem that you and everyone else didn’t bother to read your own constitution to understand that Cameron made a promise that he could never guarantee. 

 

But isn’t it ironic how Brexiteers won this opinion poll with lots of false promises while they also fell for Cameron’s false promise? What a big house of cards Brexit. Amazing how anyone in his right mind could call that democratic. 

 

Calling a manipulated opinion poll democracy is totalitarian and that’s a simple indisputable fact. It’s also a simple indisputable fact that you don’t know what the will of the people is as the opinion poll was manipulated. 

 

Look its quite simple more people want to leave the EU than remain in it there is empirical evidence for this in the form of a referendum. It doesn't matter what the losers of the referendum say they're in the minority call it an opinion pole if you want, to me you sound like a petulant child. 

 

The very definition of totalitarianism is a government who demands complete subservience to the state, ignoring the will of the vast majority of the electorate would be by definition totalitarian. Referenda are the direct opposite of totalitarian, I know which world I'd rather live in 

[welovesundaysatspace]

14 minutes ago, Chartist said:

 

Look its quite simple more people want to leave the EU than remain in it there is empirical evidence for this in the form of a referendum. It doesn't matter what the losers of the referendum say they're in the minority call it an opinion pole if you want, to me you sound like a petulant child. 

You don’t have any opinion poll that has not been manipulated to prove your claim that “more people want to leave the EU than remain”. Truth is, a not-manipulated opinion poll would show that more people would want to remain, that’s why Brexiteers fear a fair vote so much. 

 

Either way, it doesn’t even matter  because those opinion polls are advisory only. Again, have a look at your own constitution. 

 

Quote

 

The very definition of totalitarianism is a government who demands complete subservience to the state, ignoring the will of the vast majority of the electorate would be by definition totalitarian.

You don’t know what “the will of the vast majority of the electorate” is because all you have is a manipulated opinion poll. 

 

And most people would disagree with your definition that a parliamentary representative democracy is totalitarian. 

 

Quote

Referenda are the direct opposite of totalitarian, I know which world I'd rather live in 

You can always leave to a country that is governed by manipulated opinion polls. Really, go ahaead please. 

Edited January 12, 2019 by welovesundaysatspace

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

Foreign billionaire such as Soros through his ‘open democracy’ charity just gave 500 million to the leave campaign, 

Can't Brexiters get anything right? The money is in support of a second referendum with a view to stopping Brexit ????

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Do those phantasies come from the same spin doctors who put the 350 on the bus and who told you you would get pink unicorns and castles in the sky for the price of a sandwich?

 

Why don’t you have a look in the constitution. I’m pretty sure it doesn’t say anywhere that the U.K. is a system of government by manipualed opinion polls. Nor would anyone else agree that democracy is a system of government by manipulated opinion polls. That would be borderline banana state democracy. 

It's actually a perfect example pf a society run by Anarchy, where governance id devolved to the lowest possible level.

[anon676545345]

19 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

You don’t have any opinion poll that has not been manipulated to prove your claim that “more people want to leave the EU than remain”. Truth is, a not-manipulated opinion poll would show that more people would want to remain, that’s why Brexiteers fear a fair vote so much. 

 

Either way, it doesn’t even matter  because those opinion polls are advisory only. Again, have a look at your own constitution. 

 

You don’t know what “the will of the vast majority of the electorate” is because all you have is a manipulated opinion poll. 

 

And most people would disagree with your definition that a parliamentary representative democracy is totalitarian. 

 

You can always leave to a country that is governed by manipulated opinion polls. Really, go ahaead please. 

 

Your like a little toddler that didn't get his own way having a tantrum, the referendum didn't go my way so I'm gonna throw a massive tantrum call it an 'opinion poll' and demand we have another one, and another and another till I get what I want whaaa waaa waaaaa. 

 

Were the results of the referendum overturned and we remained in the EU in effect it would be saying to the British people that the system is rigged and that the politicians don't represent the public. To expect everyone to continue voting for Labour and the Tories is naive at best, it would let a whole new genie out of the bottle.

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, Patriot1066 said:

Well remainers seem to have to resort to insults like tin hats, gammon etc, and Little England is better than no England wishing the EU. Stick to facts the discussion will be easier.

 

Foreign billionaire such as Soros through his ‘open democracy’ charity just gave 500 million to the leave campaign, it should be illegal to accept such donations from foreign donors and Siri’s once brought the country to its knees so seems no friend of the English!

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/may/29/george-soros-drastic-action-needed-for-eurozone-to-survive

 

With Romania now holding the EU presidency it will be interesting to see forward momentum of the EU. I don’t mind staying in if it means wrecking it from the inside, forcing lower budgets  bans on running up future debt and actual accounts that match up why not a second referendum can happen for me we will win again. 

 

What can remain offer no changes? Like Ford moving factories out of the UK on EU development grants? Jaguar building factories in Slovakia with state aid we are not allowed to give? The list is endless we are just a piggy bank for the EU to break into.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/01/10/eu-rules-left-slovakia-free-entice-jaguar-land-rover-uk-110m/

 

Isnt the EU our great friend taking our fishing and jobs yeas really great

You think Soros gave 500M to the leave campaign? You want to be taken seriously? Brexiters should at least try to get their facts straight for an issue as important as this.

[bomber]

3 hours ago, Patriot1066 said:

Well remainers seem to have to resort to insults like tin hats, gammon etc, and Little England is better than no England wishing the EU. Stick to facts the discussion will be easier.

 

Foreign billionaire such as Soros through his ‘open democracy’ charity just gave 500 million to the leave campaign, it should be illegal to accept such donations from foreign donors and Siri’s once brought the country to its knees so seems no friend of the English!

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/may/29/george-soros-drastic-action-needed-for-eurozone-to-survive

 

With Romania now holding the EU presidency it will be interesting to see forward momentum of the EU. I don’t mind staying in if it means wrecking it from the inside, forcing lower budgets  bans on running up future debt and actual accounts that match up why not a second referendum can happen for me we will win again. 

 

What can remain offer no changes? Like Ford moving factories out of the UK on EU development grants? Jaguar building factories in Slovakia with state aid we are not allowed to give? The list is endless we are just a piggy bank for the EU to break into.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/01/10/eu-rules-left-slovakia-free-entice-jaguar-land-rover-uk-110m/

 

Isnt the EU our great friend taking our fishing and jobs yeas really great

JAL moved because of brexit the state aid came after,as for state aid Nissan have had it off the UK govt so its tit for tat,as for running up future debts we will need the EU to keep JC in check otherwise its Venuzuela here we come

[welovesundaysatspace]

50 minutes ago, Chartist said:

 

Your like a little toddler that didn't get his own way having a tantrum, the referendum didn't go my way so I'm gonna throw a massive tantrum call it an 'opinion poll' and demand we have another one, and another and another till I get what I want whaaa waaa waaaaa. 

Maybe you should scroll up again and have a look at who said what in this discussion: when Brexiteers threat to resort to riot amd violence should the parliament’s sovereignty not work their way; when Brexiteers ignore the constitution because they don’t like that a referendum is only advisory. Then I’m wondering who is acting like a little toddler and throwing tantrums. 

 

At the end of the day, there’s something called reality and you will have to face it. If you can’t see already, you will see by end of March latest that the referendum has only been an opinion poll and that it is the parliament deciding. 

 

You can then throw bottles (or tantrums) and you will again face reality which will be a prison cell. 

 

 

Quote

 

Were the results of the referendum overturned and we remained in the EU in effect it would be saying to the British people that the system is rigged and that the politicians don't represent the public. To expect everyone to continue voting for Labour and the Tories is naive at best, it would let a whole new genie out of the bottle.

“the system” by constitution is parliamentary representative democracy. It is not government by manipulated opinion polls. You would have to change the constitution to change that, and Cameron failed to do so before the 2016 opinion poll. 

Edited January 12, 2019 by welovesundaysatspace

[SheungWan]

33 minutes ago, Grouse said:

You think Soros gave 500M to the leave campaign? You want to be taken seriously? Brexiters should at least try to get their facts straight for an issue as important as this.

Probably a mistake doing the copy and paste.

[beautifulthailand99]

I don't need the 50 quid that George Soros bungs me every month but as Tesco used to say every little helps. Grouse I believe is on substantially more then he put in the hours, posts and time and well-crafted facts so tis well deserved.  Tebe and Alex Rich do it gratis I believe - true selfless European patriots that they are. 

[tebee]

Likely hood of the various scenarios, all plotted on one nice big diagram - courtesy @jonworth on twitter 

 

 

 

[nauseus]

5 hours ago, oilinki said:

Let's assume that UK based company value is 100. Let's assume it's listed in stock market, based in UK. Let's also assume that the stock market uses pound to compare stock values to real money.

 

All clear by now?

 

If the pound value drops 10% compared to the rest of the currencies, what happens to the real value of that 100 pound value of that company?

 

Even if the stock prices has been the same for the 100 pound valued company, is no longer 100 valued what pounds used to be anymore. Its value is only 90 pounds, when compared to the larger economic picture, even if it's value is showing 100 pounds in the local stock exchange. 

 

Confusing?

No. Patronising.

[nauseus]

5 hours ago, bristolboy said:

500 million? You're at best mistaken, at worst lying. Which is it?

Must have been more then,

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

I “deem it a manipulated opinion poll”

because it was. Lies, misinformation, false promises, Russian interference — all that cannot be undone by saying that Cameron promised you something he could never keep. 

 

Wait, so you admit the opinion poll was manipulated, yet you still  expect parliament to somehow “enact” it’s result and that’s what you call democracy then?

 

Again, I am telling you that you must face reality: The U.K. is a parliamentary representative democracy, not a totalitarian banana republic governed by manipulated opinion polls. Parliament has the constitutional right AND duty to cancel this fraud called Brexit. And they will. 

 

 

 

As you are part of a group that is clearly happy to see the turnover of an historic democratic vote, I don't see how it is that you can feel in any way justified dishing out lectures about democracy! It just doesn't seem appropriate, does it?

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

Can't Brexiters get anything right? The money is in support of a second referendum with a view to stopping Brexit ????

Er....Bristolboy is a remainer, innit? Have another Gorilla Hip to settle yourself.

[nauseus]

41 minutes ago, tebee said:

Likely hood of the various scenarios, all plotted on one nice big diagram - courtesy @jonworth on twitter 

 

 

 

No chance at all then that the "I Did It May Way" deal will be accepted? If she can keep dragging this whole thing out to 29th March, all the winkers will be so scared by then they just might vote for it. 

[tebee]

3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

No chance at all then that the "I Did It May Way" deal will be accepted? If she can keep dragging this whole thing out to 29th March, all the winkers will be so scared by then they just might vote for it. 

The are talking about it being defeated by an estimated majority of 225!

 

[AlexRich]

2 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

I don't need the 50 quid that George Soros bungs me every month but as Tesco used to say every little helps. Grouse I believe is on substantially more then he put in the hours, posts and time and well-crafted facts so tis well deserved.  Tebe and Alex Rich do it gratis I believe - true selfless European patriots that they are. 

No mate, Soros has me on minimum wage, the tight get!!

 

 

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, tebee said:

The are talking about it being defeated by an estimated majority of 225!

 

On 29th March? 

[AlexRich]

7 hours ago, Patriot1066 said:

Hehe we will be leaving leave always meant a ‘Hard Brexit’ if Corbyn wins his no confidence vote and there is a general election then May  will have the choice of dates. The executive (Cabinet) will be in charge, not parliament until Election Day which will need to be after the Brexit day due to time constraints or too many legal challenges. Labour are probably unlikely to win with Corbyn too much hate of his terrorist links to the IRA and Hamas.

 

Only option open is leave on Brexit day despite the remain MPs with their own interests in mind.

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/jeremy-corbyn-labour-local-elections-power-quest-off-course/

 

As to a second referendum, bring it on I know no one who voted leave that have changed their minds! We will win then you can ask for a third?

 

 

It doesn't really matter if no one changes their mind. With a million plus dead oldies and around 2 million new young people, not to mention the young folk who failed to show up for the first one, the numbers don't look good for leave. 

 

Bring it on. Brexit farce no more.

 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2019 by AlexRich

[tebee]

7 minutes ago, nauseus said:

On 29th March? 

I thought the Grieves amendment meant she had to do something by 25th Jan - come up with new plan of some sort?

[AlexRich]

6 hours ago, Chartist said:

 

If the result of the referendum isn't enacted then it shows we don't live in a democracy we live in a corporatocracy and continued participation in a system where you have no voice would be futile. The only option would be to take to the streets.

All those old pensioners causing havoc in tea rooms up and down the country? Bring it on ... I'd happily join the opposing forces ... that would outnumber any right wing rabble that tried to cause trouble. Tommy Islam and his merry band of retards ... all 2,000 of them.