Health insurance for expats over 65 in Thailand?

[JTXR]

I did a search in this forum, but maybe past threads on the subject were too long ago.

 

I know that not many companies will cover those over 65 or 70 and that the premiums will be high.  Still, are there any good companies that still offer cover?  I'm American, retired, 67.

[ifmu]

wow i guess nobody had anything to say ...

[pontious]

Pacific Cross - but will have to take a medical.

April International - I just applied 1,000,000 dollar cover.

[pontious]

On 2/14/2019 at 8:10 PM, ifmu said:

wow i guess nobody had anything to say ...

I did but no reply.

[CaptainJack]

Hi,

 

I'm running two topics that both centrally revolve around health insurance.  I researched this until i gave up. In reviewing a dozen local and international plans, the absolute least expensive that will even insure me, and no coverage for preexisting conditions was 700 usd a month.  It only went up from there.  If your over these magic ages, any money saved living in Thailand is wiped out.

 

Those are, 59, 64 and a few companies will insure at the 700 usd a month rate if not yet 66.  Once 66, game over.

 

Sorry,

 

I left Thailand one week ago to cut my losses and am back in the USA.   I'm looking at Panama and Costa Rica now.

 

Good luck.

 

CJ

[simon43]

Captain Jack - that's really weird.  I have been paying $80 a month for $500,000 annual cover ($2,000 excess) with a UK expat company (I'm 59 years old, almost 60).

 

I just changed to Davidshield ($1.2 million annual cover with 0% excess and 0% copay). My new premium is $147 a month and the company gave me estimates of annual premium increases as I go through my 60's.  Nothing like the premiums that you quoted....

 

I'm looking at Panama and Costa Rica now.

 

 

But surely the premiums for cover in those countries will be no different from what you have been quoted in Thailand?

Edited February 22, 2019 by simon43

[xylophone]

15 hours ago, CaptainJack said:

Hi,

 

I'm running two topics that both centrally revolve around health insurance.  I researched this until i gave up. In reviewing a dozen local and international plans, the absolute least expensive that will even insure me, and no coverage for preexisting conditions was 700 usd a month.  It only went up from there.  If your over these magic ages, any money saved living in Thailand is wiped out.

 

Those are, 59, 64 and a few companies will insure at the 700 usd a month rate if not yet 66.  Once 66, game over.

 

Sorry,

 

I left Thailand one week ago to cut my losses and am back in the USA.   I'm looking at Panama and Costa Rica now.

 

Good luck.

 

CJ

I know this is not about insurance but would love to hear your views on those places CJ.

[topt]

On 2/22/2019 at 5:53 PM, simon43 said:

I just changed to Davidshield

Sorry simon43 in one of the other threads I thought you said you were staying with HCI?

If not, welcome to the club 

[simon43]

Sorry simon43 in one of the other threads I thought you said you were staying with HCI?

If not, welcome to the club 

 

Yes, indeed my plan was to stay with HCI with the $2,000 USD excess.  But I then considered a worst-case scenario where I might be quite old and short on hard cash, and unable to afford the $2,000 excess if I needed some operation.  This could be made much worst if I had to make several claims.  (I have a regular monthly income but never have much $ in the bank...).

 

Bearing this nightmare scenario in mind, I opted to join Davidshield with zero % excess and zero % copay, and an increase in my HCI cover from $500,000 to $1.2 million.  Yes, my premium increases significantly from $80 to $143 per month, with no health exclusions, (hitting 60 but I am lucky to have zero pre-existing conditions or health issues).

 

I had no problems with HCI, but they do not have a 0% excess option....

[flbkk]

I got Aetna, formerly BUPA, through MrPrakan agency, inpatient and outpatient coverage, not very high limits, I think ฿200K. Very low accident and injury !฿20K and 50% (฿10K) if motorbikes involved. About ฿24K/year. Age 65 now.  Required medical underwriting, no doctor visit. I could self pay to these limits, however I figured 1)Thai government might require it in future and 2)if I get sick and treatment costs more than policy limits I might get insurance rates instead of higher self pay rates. I also keep full USA Medicare Part B and Hi Plan F supplement, dental, vision, and prescription coverage,  so my health insurance costs more that my (low) rent.

[claynlr]

On ‎2‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 4:33 AM, simon43 said:

 

 

 

Yes, indeed my plan was to stay with HCI with the $2,000 USD excess.  But I then considered a worst-case scenario where I might be quite old and short on hard cash, and unable to afford the $2,000 excess if I needed some operation.  This could be made much worst if I had to make several claims.  (I have a regular monthly income but never have much $ in the bank...).

 

Bearing this nightmare scenario in mind, I opted to join Davidshield with zero % excess and zero % copay, and an increase in my HCI cover from $500,000 to $1.2 million.  Yes, my premium increases significantly from $80 to $143 per month, with no health exclusions, (hitting 60 but I am lucky to have zero pre-existing conditions or health issues).

 

I had no problems with HCI, but they do not have a 0% excess option....

Hi Simon--Did you go through a broker? And is an exam required?

[simon43]

Hi Simon--Did you go through a broker? And is an exam required?

 

I applied direct to Davidshield via email, completed the application form (truthfully!), was accepted without any medical exam or provision of medical records and without any exclusions to their policy ????

[claynlr]

Thanks Simon....I am leaning towards David Shield. The quote from AA Brokers was very reasonable but I think I will check with D.S. direct. When I checked April Ins. , AA was actually cheaper than going direct with April. With D.S., over 60 has to have a blood test checking cholesterol and a couple of other things.

[pontious]

Quite a few mentions about April { International } The Essential policy which most people go for I remind you that they will only pay for Private room for Accidents and emergencies. For scheduled hospitalisation they will not pay anything for a private room. Nothing at all. 

[simon43]

For scheduled hospitalisation they will not pay anything for a private room. Nothing at all. 

 

That seems rather unfair.  Surely they should pay the amount for a semi-private room at least.

[Sheryl]

On 2/22/2019 at 2:20 AM, CaptainJack said:

Hi,

 

I'm running two topics that both centrally revolve around health insurance.  I researched this until i gave up. In reviewing a dozen local and international plans, the absolute least expensive that will even insure me, and no coverage for preexisting conditions was 700 usd a month.  It only went up from there.  If your over these magic ages, any money saved living in Thailand is wiped out.

 

Those are, 59, 64 and a few companies will insure at the 700 usd a month rate if not yet 66.  Once 66, game over.

 

Sorry,

 

I left Thailand one week ago to cut my losses and am back in the USA.   I'm looking at Panama and Costa Rica now.

 

Good luck.

 

CJ

 

Something was very wrong with the way you did this search.

 

You can get good cover for $250 - 350 a month if you are aged 65 - 75.  Over 75, can get at around $350-$425 a month. And that is without deductibles, with, it is less. Now this is still nto cheap, but it is nothing like what you report.

 

I suspect you were looking at inpatient PLUS outpatient cover. Only inpatient needed.

 

 

[pontious]

42 minutes ago, simon43 said:

That seems rather unfair.  Surely they should pay the amount for a semi-private room at least. 

I agree - the 2019 General Conditions clearly state it. I contacted April in France and confirmed it. I would pay over 100,000 Baht for 'Essential'. To cover a private room they said I would have to upgrade to 'Comfort' -which is another sack of money.

Edited March 18, 2019 by pontious
add

[Sheryl]

On 3/11/2019 at 6:23 PM, flbkk said:

I got Aetna, formerly BUPA, through MrPrakan agency, inpatient and outpatient coverage, not very high limits, I think ฿200K. Very low accident and injury !฿20K and 50% (฿10K) if motorbikes involved. About ฿24K/year. Age 65 now.  Required medical underwriting, no doctor visit. I could self pay to these limits, however I figured 1)Thai government might require it in future and 2)if I get sick and treatment costs more than policy limits I might get insurance rates instead of higher self pay rates. I also keep full USA Medicare Part B and Hi Plan F supplement, dental, vision, and prescription coverage,  so my health insurance costs more that my (low) rent.

 

200K baht will nto even cover a minor surgery in a private hospital.

 

Not owrth having IMO and you can be sure any future government requirement will nto be that low.

 

You should change plans now while you are still without major pre-existing conditions.

 

For those 65 and over, plans to look at include:

 

Cigna Global (silver plan or Close Care)

April My Health International (April global not April Thailand)

Pacific Cross

HCI

BDAE

Globality Health  (Essential Plan)

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

25 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

200K baht will nto even cover a minor surgery in a private hospital.

 

Not owrth having IMO and you can be sure any future government requirement will nto be that low.

 

You should change plans now while you are still without major pre-existing conditions.

 

For those 65 and over, plans to look at include:

 

Cigna Global (silver plan or Close Care)

April My Health International (April global not April Thailand)

Pacific Cross

HCI

BDAE

Globality Health  (Essential Plan)

 

 

 

Sheryl, some of those I've never even heard of before, especially in the discussions about coverage for age 65 and above...

 

Do you know, which of them have some local staff presence in Thailand vs. are entirely remote/online/international???

 

Pacific Cross certainly has a local presence here. But I don't know about the others.

 

PS - Last time I checked (LTIC), Pacific Cross would write new policies only up to age 65, and require an application physical from age 60 onward. But if you become insured with them, they'll then renew up to age 90, but the rates obviously get quite high in later years.

 

Also, LTIC, HCI would write new policies for people under age 75.

https://www.healthcareinternational.com/

 

And NZI/Safety would write new policies up to age 74, and have no cutoff age for renewals.

https://www.nzi.co.th/en/healthcare

 

The other issue with some insurers is they'll write you a new policy once you're in your older years, but then they'll cease coverage/renewals automatically at a certain age.

 

LTIC, BUPA Platinum would write new policies before age 66.... But if you joined from age 60 to 66, they'd only renew up to age 70.

 

Similarly, the Pattaya Expats club had a group policy via AXA that wrote new policies up to age 65, but then would only renew till age 75.

 

It's not just what age an insurer here will write a new policy at, but also whether they have any automatic cutoff age for renewals.

 

Edited March 18, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Sheryl]

50 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Sheryl, some of those I've never even heard of before, especially in the discussions about coverage for age 65 and above...

 

Do you know, which of them have some local staff presence in Thailand vs. are entirely remote/online/international???

 

Pacific Cross certainly has a local presence here. But I don't know about the others.

 

PS - Last time I checked (LTIC), Pacific Cross would write new policies only up to age 65, and require an application physical from age 60 onward. But if you become insured with them, they'll then renew up to age 90, but the rates obviously get quite high in later years.

 

Also, LTIC, HCI would write new policies for people under age 75.

https://www.healthcareinternational.com/

 

And NZI/Safety would write new policies up to age 74, and have no cutoff age for renewals.

https://www.nzi.co.th/en/healthcare

 

The other issue with some insurers is they'll write you a new policy once you're in your older years, but then they'll cease coverage/renewals automatically at a certain age.

 

LTIC, BUPA Platinum would write new policies before age 66.... But if you joined from age 60 to 66, they'd only renew up to age 70.

 

Similarly, the Pattaya Expats club had a group policy via AXA that wrote new policies up to age 65, but then would only renew till age 75.

 

It's not just what age an insurer here will write a new policy at, but also whether they have any automatic cutoff age for renewals.

 

AFAIK all the ones I listed provide lifetime cover.

 

Pacific Cross requires a medical exam after age 65. They do insure over that age. I forget up to how old, maybe 70-75?

 

April and Pacific Cross have offices in country.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Pacific Cross requires a medical exam after age 65. They do insure over that age. I forget up to how old, maybe 70-75?

 

 

Well, you were right, Sheryl, and apparently my agent was wrong...

 

I just checked with Pacific Cross Thailand directly, and they confirmed they will write new policies up to and including age 75, renewable to age 99, and a medical exam requirement kicks in if you're applying new age 65 and older!

 

https://www.pacificcrosshealth.com/en/health-insurance/

 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

BTW, just to give folks here some idea, here's the current policy premium table for Pacific Cross's Maxima series, with the Maxima Policy covering up to 5 million THB per disability per year, and up to 10 million for the Maxima Plus policy.  Those two policies have nightly inpatient hospital room and nursing benefits of 8,000 and 10,000 baht respectively, which is getting to be on the low end for private hospitals in BKK.

 

One of the nice features of Pacific Cross is they offer a pretty wide range of available premium discounts thru deductibles, skipping outpatient coverage, no claim discounts, etc....  For example, you can take up to 45% off their posted premium rates by accepting a 40,000 thb annual deductible (25%) and by skipping outpatient coverage or having their maximum 3 year no claim discount (each 20%).

 

Pacific Cross, also, has not increased their premiums annually in recent years, as most/many other insurers here have, sometimes substantially. As you can see, the rates and brochure below are from a 2015 document and remain valid today. They do, though, adjust their rates via the age band adjustments shown in the premium table, which other insurers do also.

 

 

 

 

Pacific Cross Maxima Brochure OCT-2015.pdf

 

[pontious]

5 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Well, you were right, Sheryl, and apparently my agent was wrong...

You go to them for advice - not to get an incorrect answer. The agent should not get it wrong.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

19 minutes ago, pontious said:

You go to them for advice - not to get an incorrect answer. The agent should not get it wrong.

 

Interesting thing... For years, I've been asking my agent for a chart of Pacific Cross' premiums once you get beyond age 65, which is the top age listed on all their policy brochures, and I've never gotten anything covering those older years from my agent.

 

So today, in order to confirm the age qualification issue, I called their office in BKK and ended up speaking to a farang rep there who quickly answered my question. But then beyond that, when I got home tonight, I found the same rep had emailed me a set of about 10 documents (none of which I had requested) including the FULL premium charts for all age ranges..

 

So for everyone's info, I'll post copies of those here....

 

 

 

When I see those higher age range premiums, it makes me think of just one thing as an American -- U.S. domestic Medicare coverage!!!

[AAArdvark]

15 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Interesting thing... For years, I've been asking my agent for a chart of Pacific Cross' premiums once you get beyond age 65, which is the top age listed on all their policy brochures, and I've never gotten anything covering those older years from my agent.

 

So today, in order to confirm the age qualification issue, I called their office in BKK and ended up speaking to a farang rep there who quickly answered my question. But then beyond that, when I got home tonight, I found the same rep had emailed me a set of about 10 documents (none of which I had requested) including the FULL premium charts for all age ranges..

 

So for everyone's info, I'll post copies of those here....

 

 

 

When I see those higher age range premiums, it makes me think of just one thing as an American -- U.S. domestic Medicare coverage!!!

Do these rates also have provision for the discounts in the previous post.

[Orton Rd]

On 3/16/2019 at 11:30 AM, simon43 said:

 

 

 

I applied direct to Davidshield via email, completed the application form (truthfully!), was accepted without any medical exam or provision of medical records and without any exclusions to their policy ????

You are not over 65 though are you? which is what the thread is about

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

31 minutes ago, AAArdvark said:

Do these rates also have provision for the discounts in the previous post.

 

yes...I believe so... The items I posted above are their standard premium rates, apart from/prior to any discounts related to no claims, deductibles, no outpatient, etc.

 

BTW, I don't have any affiliation with Pacific Cross, other than that they've been my health insurer in Thailand for my entire duration here. And I don't have any complaints with them, but I also have had very few and minor claims during that entire time.

 

Today, when I called to ask about the age limit issue, I got a Thai operator on their phone number who spoke English, and then in one transfer connected me to the farang CSR I mentioned above by the name of Stephen.

 

https://www.pacificcrosshealth.com/en/contact-us/

 

 

Edited March 18, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[scubascuba3]

 
yes...I believe so... The items I posted above are their standard premium rates, apart from/prior to any discounts related to no claims, deductibles, no outpatient, etc.
 
BTW, I don't have any affiliation with Pacific Cross, other than that they've been my health insurer in Thailand for my entire duration here. And I don't have any complaints with them, but I also have had very few and minor claims during that entire time.
 
Today, when I called to ask about the age limit issue, I got a Thai operator on their phone number who spoke English, and then in one transfer connected me to the farang CSR I mentioned above by the name of Stephen.
 
https://www.pacificcrosshealth.com/en/contact-us/
 
 

I thought i read before that Pacific Cross increase the premium after a claim, something Cigna and some others don't, is that correct?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

No and yes, depending. . .

 

As a general rule, no they dont. Ive had small claims with them in the past and those never triggered any premium change... Others have had larger claims and same.

 

However, from what Ive been told, if you end up having very large claims relative to your total premiums paid over the life of your coverage, they can up yr premium, I believe, their policy says up to 25%.

 

But keep in mind by comparison, PC also hasnt been doing any annual inflationary increases to their premiums in recent years, whereas most of the other insurers have, and often substantial.

 

So Id bet, for other policies, those easily could have totaled 25% over the past 3-4 years. And those hit everyone, not just those with large claims...

 

 

[HampiK]

 

15 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

22 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 
yes...I believe so... The items I posted above are their standard premium rates, apart from/prior to any discounts related to no claims, deductibles, no outpatient, etc.
 
BTW, I don't have any affiliation with Pacific Cross, other than that they've been my health insurer in Thailand for my entire duration here. And I don't have any complaints with them, but I also have had very few and minor claims during that entire time.
 
Today, when I called to ask about the age limit issue, I got a Thai operator on their phone number who spoke English, and then in one transfer connected me to the farang CSR I mentioned above by the name of Stephen.
 
https://www.pacificcrosshealth.com/en/contact-us/
 
 

I thought i read before that Pacific Cross increase the premium after a claim, something Cigna and some others don't, is that correct?

Yes this is the big disadvantage of Pacific Cross. They can increase the premium of 25% when you have a claim over (I think) 200% of the annual payment. You have claims for 3 years, and you already pay almost double (195%) the amount. This is even in the contract of Pacific Cross. Anything else of Pacific Cross looks good. But this one point was the main reason I changed from Pacific Cross to Cigna Silver. My wife had Cigna close care (and last year they even reduced the premiums) but now I changed her to silver as well… so both have the same plans.