Very sad goings-on in Pattaya

[WhyamIhere]

The other night while sitting across the street from a loud Soi Six bar, waiting for a friend who was having a drink, I observed a crippled girl dragging her obviously paralyzed body through the street gutter by her gloved hands. She was pushing a small basket containing gum in hopes of receiving sympathetic offerings. Being quite touched by the sight of this poor girl, I approached her three times, each time giving her more money...about ฿600 in total. I watched her for about 30 minutes and could not believe how few people gave her anything. During that time I noticed one farang and two or three bar girls contributing. This experience was very upsetting to me and kept me awake all night wondering how I possibly could help her. The following morning I relayed this story to my Thai friend who told me that she is a slave to scum-bags who live off of her. She said that they take all of the money and only provide enough food to keep her alive. I can't get this out of my mind and I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas on how to go about stopping this sick practice? My friend said that this is probably mafia related and the police will do nothing about it. If the police are afraid or involved, perhaps Prime Minister Prayut can get some military men to rescue people from this horrendous, corrupt practice.     

[SheungWan]

The practical question, I think, is what it would take if you wanted to personally involve yourself in her situation. 

[neeray]

No doubt, very sad story. Your concern and compassion is appreciated.

 

I too was of assistance to a selective few in need, usually mother with baby in arms. However, my Thai gf was very opposed to me assisting as she said they were all 'professional' beggars and scammers. This was in Chiang Mai at the night markets.

 

It is a tuff call. Hope you follow through on this and enlighten others to your findings.

[Dexlowe]

It's a sobering sight, that's for sure, and goes against everything we are taught to believe about compassion. It's even more infuriating when we learn that these disabled people are controlled by mafia-like groups (I have personally seen them being dropped off at their begging sites by fit, healthy young men). But the reality is that we can do jack about it. 

[AlexCanada]

Sad story but if there is really mafia involvement then you are far better off turning a blind eye like the rest of Thailand and the expats who live here.  

[NCC1701A]

i wonder if the Op is in love with a massage girl who will not give him the time of day or is he about to marry a Thai woman who he knows is cheating on him?

 

meaning it is all the same person.

 

anyway back to the sad story. it is heart breaking seeing the beggars. Slum dog millionaire in real life.  

Edited January 10, 2019 by NCC1701A

[neeray]

16 minutes ago, AlexCanada said:

Sad story but if there is really mafia involvement then you are far better off turning a blind eye like the rest of Thailand and the expats who live here.  

Your advice is sad but probably quite true.

[champers]

Thankfully, such sights are rare in Thailand. There are a few mothers with child sat on the street in Pattaya and I understand they are from Cambodia and part of organised gangs.

In Indian tourist areas there is a lot of begging and much of it can be very upsetting. Our tour guides advised against giving; again because the begging was organised by criminal elements; but said that people should donate to charities if they were so concerned. I think the same advice could apply to the OP.

[balo]

Maybe next time offer food and drinks to her instead so the mafia gets nothing! 

 

[bbko]

If you really want to help crippled beggars, DO NOT give money directly to them, it will only make them or their handlers keep them dragging their crippled bodies around town, instead give to the NGOs that are dedicated to helping the disabled.  There's several NGO's in Pattaya set up to helping the less fortunate;  Fr Ray Foundation, Redemptorist Foundation for People with Disabilities, Redemptorist Vocational School for People with Disabilities, all these places are located behind Big C Extra on Pattaya Klang. 

Edited January 11, 2019 by bbko

[kingstonkid]

7 hours ago, balo said:

Maybe next time offer food and drinks to her instead so the mafia gets nothing! 

 

If she is working for mafia  she will refuse the food.   The sad thing is that this happens in every country.   I didn't know that until I lived in Pakistan.   Our drivers used to keep fruit in the car.   Mothers with babies would come looking for money for food but refuse food no matter what it was.   On one corner we could see the handlers waiting. 

 

I am not naive to think that it doesn't happen  in big cities in Canada where groups can control an intersection.

 

 

[Katipo]

Your Thai friend is right. There are probably people exploiting her for their own gain. You this to varying degrees all over the world, but in poorer more corrupt countries, it is obviously much worse. It seems to me there is very little one can do to change things from the outside, if the internal mechanisms that allow this to happen in the first place aren't also changed. So in summary, the change must come from within Thailand should you hope for any meaningful long term change.

Having said that, I support an orphanage up near Sangklaburi that is run by foreigners, and I know the resources I give are used as are intended. This orphanage gives their kids (and in some cases their at risk mothers) an education and life skills that they need to become independent people who can survive in this often very cruel world. I made this decision to help this institution, knowing I can't help everyone, but doing what small bit I can, and wanting that bit to be as effective as possible. Perhaps this might be something for you to consider too? ????

[OmarZaid]

I am informed by my wife (local retired school teacher held in high regard) that this is not an uncommon practice. Children are often sold and never heard from again. Those unsuitable for the sex trade are often maimed for purposes of begging. Independent research confirms this. It is a sad but ugly truth.

[Andrew65]

5 hours ago, bbko said:

If you really want to help crippled beggars, DO NOT give money directly to them, it will only make them or their handlers keep them dragging their crippled bodies around town, instead give to the NGOs that are dedicated to helping the disabled.  There's several NGO's in Pattaya set up to helping the less fortunate;  Fr Ray Foundation, Redemptorist Foundation for People with Disabilities, Redemptorist Vocational School for People with Disabilities, all these places are located behind Big C Extra on Pattaya Klang. 

For many years I lived at or stopped for long periods at a hotel in Bangkok. There was a lady who worked as a waitress in the coffee shop who had a Downs Syndrome boy who was about 4 years old at the time. It seemed like the owners of the hotel very kindly turned a blind eye to the fact that he used to come to work with her, the other staff used to look out for him.

 

In later years he would beg outside, some days he might make as much as his mother earned. She always kept a close watch over him, as others did (partly for fear of his money being stolen). I doubt involvement of other people in this, he was "earning his keep" for his now ageing single mother.

 

He's now maybe 30 years old and the hotel has closed down. I guess he will be sort of ok as long as his mother's around.

 

There obviously aren't the facilities in Thailand to look after people like this, as there is in the West.

 

`It's very sad. I will be around there again soon and will be sure to give mum some money, even if it's only 100 Baht.

 

I am aware that people are preying on these people, I'm not sure that this was the case here.

[wombat]

8 hours ago, champers said:

organised by criminal elements; but said that people should donate to charities 

pmsl....same same but different

[pi2005ni]

These beggars are brought to Pattaya each night by their masters and picked up at the end of their shift. They receive non of the money you have just given . The police from time to time round them up and deport them, for them to return again within a few weeks . Many of these beggars collect quite a lot of cash during their shift so it’s big business for the masters who are the ones who should be jailed .

[Kerryd]

The "Crippled beggar" is a common sight in Pattaya. At nights they move around the touristy areas and during the days they can often be found near various outdoor markets.

 

Been around long before my first trip here (in 1993). Will be around long after I've gone "up in smoke" as well.

 

Don't kid yourself, they make a ton of money everyday. I've seen loads of people drop everything from loose pocket change to 20s and hundreds in their bowls (which they empty almost as fast as the money goes in to give the appearance that they haven't had much luck).

 

I've passed the same beggar on Walking Street and then saw (him or her) an hour later on soi 16 and a couple hours later even further down Walking Street. Each time their bowl was nearly empty despite all the bills I saw get deposited into them.

 

(Really no different than the beggars and "buskers" back home who do the exact same thing - often before going back to their upscale homes to change clothes and then go party with all the free money they collected. Plus the beggars/buskers back home all seem to be in pretty good physical shape all things considered, unlike the beggars in Thailand.)

 

Keeping in mind that Thailand doesn't have the same "safety net" or social programs available for those with severe physical disabilities like many "Western" countries do. If they weren't begging, they'd have probably died from neglect long ago. 
Obviously it isn't the lifestyle most of us want to see (or think about) but that is the reality for a lot of people in a lot of poorer countries. The people who look after those beggars know that foreigners are a soft touch, which is why you see those people in the "touristy" areas and rarely anywhere else.

But a lot of Thais also donate to them, probably fully aware that the beggar probably isn't getting a lot of what they make.

 

It reminds me as well of all the old people you see pushing carts around the city and rummaging in the trash for any tiny bit of recyclable material they can find. My neighbour tells me that plastics fetch about 5 baht per kilogram and cardboard is about 3 baht per kilo.

 

Those old people will spend the better part of the whole day pushing their carts around and maybe ending up with 50-100 baht worth of recyclables in a day. But what choice do they have otherwise ? Not much. Work or die. Or, work until you die. They really don't have any other options.

Sad goings on indeed, but it isn't limited to just Pattaya and certainly not just to Thailand. (Wander around India for awhile and you'll see.) It's even worse in other countries.

 

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

7 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

The "Crippled beggar" is a common sight in Pattaya. At nights they move around the touristy areas and during the days they can often be found near various outdoor markets.

 

Been around long before my first trip here (in 1993). Will be around long after I've gone "up in smoke" as well.

 

Don't kid yourself, they make a ton of money everyday. I've seen loads of people drop everything from loose pocket change to 20s and hundreds in their bowls (which they empty almost as fast as the money goes in to give the appearance that they haven't had much luck).

 

I've passed the same beggar on Walking Street and then saw (him or her) an hour later on soi 16 and a couple hours later even further down Walking Street. Each time their bowl was nearly empty despite all the bills I saw get deposited into them.

 

(Really no different than the beggars and "buskers" back home who do the exact same thing - often before going back to their upscale homes to change clothes and then go party with all the free money they collected. Plus the beggars/buskers back home all seem to be in pretty good physical shape all things considered, unlike the beggars in Thailand.)

 

Keeping in mind that Thailand doesn't have the same "safety net" or social programs available for those with severe physical disabilities like many "Western" countries do. If they weren't begging, they'd have probably died from neglect long ago. 
Obviously it isn't the lifestyle most of us want to see (or think about) but that is the reality for a lot of people in a lot of poorer countries. The people who look after those beggars know that foreigners are a soft touch, which is why you see those people in the "touristy" areas and rarely anywhere else.

But a lot of Thais also donate to them, probably fully aware that the beggar probably isn't getting a lot of what they make.

 

It reminds me as well of all the old people you see pushing carts around the city and rummaging in the trash for any tiny bit of recyclable material they can find. My neighbour tells me that plastics fetch about 5 baht per kilogram and cardboard is about 3 baht per kilo.

 

Those old people will spend the better part of the whole day pushing their carts around and maybe ending up with 50-100 baht worth of recyclables in a day. But what choice do they have otherwise ? Not much. Work or die. Or, work until you die. They really don't have any other options.

Sad goings on indeed, but it isn't limited to just Pattaya and certainly not just to Thailand. (Wander around India for awhile and you'll see.) It's even worse in other countries.

 

 

 

 

agree, India is just terrible, not only terrible - India is terrible terrible

 

anyway, re your observations in Patts

 

I don't see any mentioning here of the Crawler on lower Sukh in BKK

he is crawling on his stomach in the gutter between Asoke and Soi 4, both sides of Sukh

raining flooding or whatever -no sweat - he crawls in his shitty rags

has been doing that for years and years

 

he drives a Benz, on 2 occasions I've had a beer with him

 

but, by all means - challenged people have a hard life in LoS - not much safety network here

 

 

 

[gerritkaew]

Just stop to give money, i do. instead we give them food or drink.

The more money you give the more will come on the streets!!

[atyclb]

9 hours ago, balo said:

Maybe next time offer food and drinks to her instead so the mafia gets nothing! 

 

 

the times i have bought food to give to street beggars (some rubbing their stomachs)there is a mixed reaction. some outright refuse with a nasty look on their faces. children will usually accept food but the accompanying adult tells them not to.  children without adults accept food.  the alcoholic/addict looking ones maybe refuse 50% of time

[Stevey]

Giving a professional beggar 600baht well done. Ask yourself why there weren't 20 different beggars on that street ? Because it's all mafia controlled. 

[dotpoom]

14 hours ago, Dexlowe said:

It's a sobering sight, that's for sure, and goes against everything we are taught to believe about compassion. It's even more infuriating when we learn that these disabled people are controlled by mafia-like groups (I have personally seen them being dropped off at their begging sites by fit, healthy young men). But the reality is that we can do jack about it. 

This goes on in my own country and probably every country (beggers and scammers and mafia, maybe not as bad as this poor lady).

   I asked a good friend of mine about this (since deceased) who had live here longer than myself at the time. He said I should continue giving them money even though the mafia took it from them and only left them a few Baht from their proceeds. He pointed out that only for the mafia they would have not even got that "few Baht" daily. They would not have been able on their own to even get to a begging pitch. Discusting as it is...for the invalids it was better than "nothing at all".

[Stevey]

1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

agree, India is just terrible, not only terrible - India is terrible terrible

 

anyway, re your observations in Patts

 

I don't see any mentioning here of the Crawler on lower Sukh in BKK

he is crawling on his stomach in the gutter between Asoke and Soi 4, both sides of Sukh

raining flooding or whatever -no sweat - he crawls in his shitty rags

has been doing that for years and years

 

he drives a Benz, on 2 occasions I've had a beer with him

 

but, by all means - challenged people have a hard life in LoS - not much safety network here

 

 

 

I've seen that guy 'standing ' talking with a trader on Sukhumvit well dressed with a crutch, it was a well earned night off for him.

[PAWNEESE]

I feel guilty on occasions about not giving anymore to beggars but will often buy trinkets or chewing gum if they actually selling not begging. And if they obviously handicapped. I always forget to wait for change. Very noble of them in a way to sort of work not beg.  There are too many stories like the dwarf lady years past who used to beg in bars nightly reportedly owning many luxury houses. One guy I have seen almost daily near Tukcom in Pattaya, daily for 7 years ... has lost an arm ... it must have been an horrendous accident. But he looks fit otherwise. He sits in the gutter .. not on nearby steps to maximise peoples pity. No shirt to show the awful injury. But I never give to him. He could easily serve in a shop or sell lottery tickets etc etc etc. But maybe I should be ashamed. I think he is probably rich.  Many from Pattaya will know him as he rarely not there.

Edited January 11, 2019 by PAWNEESE

[ivor bigun]

I've seen that guy 'standing ' talking with a trader on Sukhumvit well dressed with a crutch, it was a well earned night off for him.

When i had the office just off sukhumvit about 15 years ago he was always crawling up and down ,saw many tourists giving him cash ,i also saw him many times ,standing in our side soi having a smoke and a laugh with other guys.needless to say i never gave him anything but a smile as i walked by.

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[Mac98]

3 hours ago, Katipo said:

Your Thai friend is right. There are probably people exploiting her for their own gain. You this to varying degrees all over the world, but in poorer more corrupt countries, it is obviously much worse. It seems to me there is very little one can do to change things from the outside, if the internal mechanisms that allow this to happen in the first place aren't also changed. So in summary, the change must come from within Thailand should you hope for any meaningful long term change.

Having said that, I support an orphanage up near Sangklaburi that is run by foreigners, and I know the resources I give are used as are intended. This orphanage gives their kids (and in some cases their at risk mothers) an education and life skills that they need to become independent people who can survive in this often very cruel world. I made this decision to help this institution, knowing I can't help everyone, but doing what small bit I can, and wanting that bit to be as effective as possible. Perhaps this might be something for you to consider too? ????

You say little can be done from the outside, but isn't that what NGOs do? Maybe they should concentrate on this problem a little more than they do chasing around go-go bars.

[vinegarbase]

This is a well known situation in China they are called beggar gangs. Sometimes these people are perfectly healthy and intentionally disabled by the gang and enslaved to work with them. I remember not long ago hearing about the Chinese running them even in Malaysia, who knows if they have any ties to it in Thailand.

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/china-gang-forces-disfigured-disabled-foreigners-to-beg-at-hotspots-in-malaysia

[melvinmelvin]

49 minutes ago, Stevey said:

I've seen that guy 'standing ' talking with a trader on Sukhumvit well dressed with a crutch, it was a well earned night off for him.

amazing LoS, say no more

 

[melvinmelvin]

49 minutes ago, Stevey said:

I've seen that guy 'standing ' talking with a trader on Sukhumvit well dressed with a crutch, it was a well earned night off for him.

amazing LoS, say no more

 

[reenatinnakor]

Too late to help this particular person but the best way to stop things like this happening is to never give money to beggars or amputee beggars sliding on the street half naked... Once the mafia knows no one gives money then they will stop this practice. This use to happens in China all the time but people got smart and didn't give money so it happens less now. Don't give money to beggars, period.

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