Engineers Face Charges After Bangkok Crane Collapse Kills 5

[webfact]

Engineers Face Charges After Bangkok Crane Collapse Kills 5

By Jintamas Saksornchai, Staff Reporter

 

Police and engineers on Thursday at the construction site where a crane collapsed and killed five people in Bangkok.

 

BANGKOK — Construction engineers face charges over a collapsed crane at Bangkok’s Rama III Road which killed five people, police said Thursday.

 

Col. Sompot Suwanjarat of Bang Phong Phang police station said investigators and experts are looking for the head engineers of the Lumpini Park Rama 3 Riverine condominiums construction site. He said they face charges of fatal negligence after the crane partially collapsed yesterday afternoon.

 

Full story: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/crimecourtscalamity/2019/01/24/engineers-face-charges-after-bangkok-crane-collapse-kills-5/

 

-- © Copyright Khaosod English 2019-01-24

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I'm not sure why the police and/or the article are blathering on about "construction engineers" with no mention of who they were employed by.

 

From the prior article on this, the crane was being operated by a contractor working for the developer. So I'd presume, the primary responsibility for the operation or failure of the crane would rest with the crane subcontractor, and then secondarily with the developer if they somehow failed to have the proper permits and procedures in place at their project.

 

But Lumpini is a very big developer here, so I'm guessing, any "facing" won't end up falling on them.

 

[shady86]

I doubt there are qualified construction engineers here.

[robblok]

52 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I'm not sure why the police and/or the article are blathering on about "construction engineers" with no mention of who they were employed by.

 

From the prior article on this, the crane was being operated by a contractor working for the developer. So I'd presume, the primary responsibility for the operation or failure of the crane would rest with the crane subcontractor, and then secondarily with the developer if they somehow failed to have the proper permits and procedures in place at their project.

 

But Lumpini is a very big developer here, so I'm guessing, any "facing" won't end up falling on them.

 

I would say that legally the developer is still liable, they could of course try to shift blame to the contractor but then they have to prove everything has been done right by them.

[NCC1701A]

Photo caption:

 

"8500 baht for each person killed."

"Do you take Visa?"

"Yes that is what we mean. You face charges."

 

Edited January 24, 2019 by NCC1701A

[happy chappie]

A few zip ties and some bamboo and it'll be up and running in no time.this accident was just waiting to happen.faulty people using faulty machinery in faulty land.

[snoop1130]

Engineers inspect deadly Bangkok crane collapse site

By Supachai Phetchthewee

The Nation

 

 

Civil engineers on Thursday inspected the scene where five workers were killed and five others injured when the top of a crane fell on them at a Bangkok condominium construction site on Wednesday.

 

Bang Phong Phang police superintendent Colonel Somphot Suwancharas, who joined the inspection in Yannawa district, said police would file an initial charge of recklessness causing death and injury based on the results of the police forensic probe and engineering inspection. 

 

As he joined the expert team led by Department of Public Works and Town and Country Planning chief engineer Sathian Charoenrien, Somphot said the contractor company did not send a representative to give a testimony so it was still unclear if a supervising engineer was there at the time. So far police interviewed five witnesses and would talk to the injured workers soon.

 

All construction work was halted after Yannawa District Office suspended operations for 30 days at the 35-storey condominium construction site. 

 

A team member, Chulert Jitjurjun, who is a civil engineer from the Engineering Council, said the building control supervising engineer and the crane installing supervising engineer should work together. Almost an hour into the inspection, Chulert told reporters that the collapsed crane was old, having been in use for years, and was not in a 100 per cent perfect condition. 

 

It was not yet determined if a supervising engineer was on site at the time, he said. But if proven to stem from the engineer's recklessness, it could result in the engineer's licence being suspended or permanently revoked. 

 

The building structure was not affected by the crane accident with just some cracks on the 12th storey that had to be repaired, he said.

 

As the cause of the incident was still under investigation, questions had been asked about the crane installation. 

 

CEO of LPN Development PCL Opas Sripayak on Wednesday claimed the accident was caused by a flaw in the way the crane had been assembled by an outsourced company, while the city had said the building construction, which reached the 13th floor, did not obtain permission for the crane to be aiding the construction of the 14th floor upwards.

 

Yannawa district chief Suthat Rujinarong said as a crane was not part of a building, its installation required a separate permit or the district office would order it to be dismantled. The dismantling also requires the construction project to submit an application for a crane-removal permit and a safety plan of action, Suthat added.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/breakingnews/30362876

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2019-01-24

[mserror]

This is a problem in Australia too. I think many crane uses should be approved by structural engineers.

[ChrisY1]

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I'm not sure why the police and/or the article are blathering on about "construction engineers" with no mention of who they were employed by.

 

From the prior article on this, the crane was being operated by a contractor working for the developer. So I'd presume, the primary responsibility for the operation or failure of the crane would rest with the crane subcontractor, and then secondarily with the developer if they somehow failed to have the proper permits and procedures in place at their project.

 

But Lumpini is a very big developer here, so I'm guessing, any "facing" won't end up falling on them.

 

The principal is in charge of the site....the construction company, especially the project manager, are liable....but in Thailand no-one steps up to the pad and virtually no-one is very capable.

[ChrisY1]

26 minutes ago, mserror said:

This is a problem in Australia too. I think many crane uses should be approved by structural engineers.

Thats how it is....certification is always required.

[pattayadgw]

I'd be looking closely at the crane manufacturers and grade of steel used in the crane. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 minutes ago, ChrisY1 said:

The principal is in charge of the site....the construction company, especially the project manager, are liable....but in Thailand no-one steps up to the pad and virtually no-one is very capable.

 

This is a terrific situation hand-made especially for Thailand -- lots of involved parties makes it hard to assign singular blame and responsibility to any particular party...

 

You've got:

--the developer, probably in limited partnership form, behind the project.

--the contractor the developer hired to build the project.

--the subcontractor hired by the contractor to do the crane work.

--BMA Public Works in terms of permits and permitting approvals.

and maybe others as well....

 

I'm sure in the end, it will come down to an unforeseeable act of Buddha, probably exacerbated by an insufficient supply of amulets being hung from the crane.

[Oztruckie]

Did they try measuring the load the crane was lifting at the time, highly likely the load was too heavy, or on the limit, old weakened steel, or not enough counter weight, this is end result. 

[tutsiwarrior]

tower cranes where ever they are used are subject contractually to third party inspections on a regular basis, like before each time they are erected before service...

 

conveniently avoided this time for some tea money...a weakened joint somewhere can easily lead to a catastrophic failure...find the responsible individual and execute him publicly, kill his family and burn down his village as a warning to others...

 

thus speaketh tutsiwarrior, owner's lead mechanical engineer and responsible for safety within his scope of work...there is no compromising on safety, ever...

 

 

Edited January 24, 2019 by tutsiwarrior

[soalbundy]

Oh no !  not another 500 Baht fine, we're ruined.

[overherebc]

14 hours ago, pattayadgw said:

I'd be looking closely at the crane manufacturers and grade of steel used in the crane. 

Many years ago prior to assembly the main bolting joint areas would have been inspected using either magnetic particle or dye penetrant inspection as well as the welded joints of the major cross bracings. As time went on inpection teams/sections more and more started to be controlled by the bean counters rather than being controlled by their own managers. Inspections were gradually reduced from 100% of areas down to 10% of areas.

Quality Assurance became more important than Quality Control, ie we have a load of paperwork that says we do it properly instead of we have a load of reports that says we have done it properly.

A 10% inspection for me only proves that 90% of joints haven't been inspected.

Cross bracings on some of these cranes are quite often not fully welded at the ends allowing rain/moisture inside causing corrosion and weakening of strength, they may look nice with a fresh coat of paint but so can a second hand pick up with a rusted through chassis.

End of rant. 

Edited January 25, 2019 by overherebc

[AI5AASIA]

14 hours ago, Oztruckie said:

Did they try measuring the load the crane was lifting at the time, highly likely the load was too heavy, or on the limit, old weakened steel, or not enough counter weight, this is end result. 

In the news we only see mention of a (one) crane colapse. About an hour after the colapse I happened to be cycling nearby and stopped to see what the interest was for the photographers. The attached are the pictures I took, looking at the second crane with the top jib section still in place, anyone else think this looks like the second crane also colapsed,  albeit to a lesser degree.

[Burma Bill]

It is ironic that the photo clearly shows a "Green Cross, Safety First" sign.

[sammieuk1]

There is so much heavy metal in the Bangkok air these days looks like they made the top of the crane out of plastic????

[overherebc]

39 minutes ago, AI5AASIA said:

In the news we only see mention of a (one) crane colapse. About an hour after the colapse I happened to be cycling nearby and stopped to see what the interest was for the photographers. The attached are the pictures I took, looking at the second crane with the top jib section still in place, anyone else think this looks like the second crane also colapsed,  albeit to a lesser degree.

Looks like a section from the first collapse jammed between the second crane and the building.

Hard to tell but it also looks like the second crane has been pushed out from building a bit because of it.

For me that means take down and replace the second crane.

Edited January 25, 2019 by overherebc

[hotchilli]

A pity they weren't all standing there when it collapsed, something might actually happen to prevent a future re-occurrence !

[oldrunner]

Man. Tutsi Warrior is tough, drastic cruel actions. Cranes are built for specific lifting and when limit is exceeded, collapse under load is guaranteed.

[RichardColeman]

18 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

But if proven to stem from the engineer's recklessness, it could result in the engineer's licence being suspended or permanently revoked. 

I would have thought a good prison sentence for manslaughter or negligent death would be more apt. 

[Ulic]

All I know is shit flows downhill so Som Chai who actually assembled the crane will be held responsible for not doing it "correctly" as he is the lowest man on the totem pole. He is probably Cambodian so an extra handy scapegoat. 

[ratcatcher]

18 hours ago, pattayadgw said:

I'd be looking closely at the crane manufacturers and grade of steel used in the crane. 

"Chulert told reporters that the collapsed crane was old, having been

in use for years,  and was      not in a 100 per cent perfect condition. "

The previous posts by overherebc give a far more informed and logical explanation regarding this incident.

 

https://www.lpn.co.th/en/about-lpn/lpn-chairman

 

Edited January 25, 2019 by ratcatcher

[cracker1]

22 hours ago, robblok said:

I would say that legally the developer is still liable, they could of course try to shift blame to the contractor but then they have to prove everything has been done right by them.

What about some responsibility falling on the BMA or local authority who issued the permit to erect the crane and no doubt "signed off" on it when when completed ?

 

[robblok]

15 minutes ago, cracker1 said:

What about some responsibility falling on the BMA or local authority who issued the permit to erect the crane and no doubt "signed off" on it when when completed ?

 

IMHO should be liable too.. anyway I don't expect that too many people get punished.

[xtrnuno41]

the collapsed crane was old, having been in use for years, and was not in a 100 per cent perfect condition. 

 

Thailand, no control anyhow. No maintenance. 

 

Thailand where the scaffolds are bamboo , WITHOUT any shelfs, hang in there and do your work.

Just balancing on a rod no safety harness at all , you ve seen them !! Ok i can go on and on, but doesnt work, they should finally see it for themselves. But even in a very regulated country it can go wrong. Sadly it costs lives, but what is a live? We have more then enough people though?! This is sarcastically ment 

[superal]

Now if this had occurred in the UK and I was involved in lifting arrangements I would be pooing my pants as the HSE ( health & safety executive ) would be on site carrying out their investigation . They have controlling powers above that of the police in such incidents and leave no stone unturned . By the sounds of it this crane should not have been in service . Heads should roll and this is industrial manslaughter . No passing the buck and all the way to the top man who is ultimately responsible . I have seen lifting strops , chains etc here in Thailand without any test tags lying in the mud being used without concern . What is the point of having method statements / risk assessments and permits to work if they are not administered . Paper work exercise only ? I think there was a similar crane tragedy last year in Bangkok .

[overherebc]

49 minutes ago, superal said:

Now if this had occurred in the UK and I was involved in lifting arrangements I would be pooing my pants as the HSE ( health & safety executive ) would be on site carrying out their investigation . They have controlling powers above that of the police in such incidents and leave no stone unturned . By the sounds of it this crane should not have been in service . Heads should roll and this is industrial manslaughter . No passing the buck and all the way to the top man who is ultimately responsible . I have seen lifting strops , chains etc here in Thailand without any test tags lying in the mud being used without concern . What is the point of having method statements / risk assessments and permits to work if they are not administered . Paper work exercise only ? I think there was a similar crane tragedy last year in Bangkok .

Generally works on the principle that it was ok yesterday so it will be ok today and so on.