BREAKING NEWS Foreigners now need to keep 800k in Thai bank for three months AFTER retirement extension is granted

[wayned]

14 minutes ago, indepth said:

If you were correct why only citizens of 4 out of 100 embassies affected?  Time to look at reality.  Case of embassy lazies. 

Because the 4 Embassies didn't have the balls to stand  up to Immigration and tell them that this is what you have accepted for years and if yo won't accept it any longer then you, Thai Immigration, release a statement to the citizens of these countries that you will no longer accept the Income Affidavits provided by them.  It would have never happened!

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, sumrit said:

You are wrong! The BE  only stated what they were shown. That may not have been accurate.

 

For example, and this is 100% accurate. I know of one British National personally who didn't have enough pension each month, so three months before he needed the income letter he transferred £500.00 from one UK account to the second UK account then sent it back again two days later labelled as 'rent' (from a fictitious house rental) to show an extra monthly income he didn't actually have. With him showing three months bank statements the BE gave him a letter showing his pension and rent income totals which was more than enough to satisfy his income requirements. He just relied on nobody checking his rental claims.

 

Simple and easy to do but a fiddle and a lie. BE letters information could easily be 'falsified'.

 

So please stop your inaccurate comments and Change the Record!!!!! 

Sorry but BE only accepted official documents. I sent my P60, recent pension payslip and 3 months bank statements. Your nonsensical method wouldn't have washed with the BE.

[jacko45k]

9 minutes ago, wayned said:

Because the 4 Embassies didn't have the balls to stand  up to Immigration and tell them that this is what you have accepted for years and if yo won't accept it any longer then you, Thai Immigration, release a statement to the citizens of these countries that you will no longer accept the Income Affidavits provided by them.  It would have never happened!

Since Immigration have indeed carried on accepting what they have been accepting for years from the rest of the less churlish Embassies, some may have jumped the gun or got it wrong. Do you think IO backed down and it is they who don't have the cajones, simply because a few Embassies spat the dummy?

[sumrit]

23 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Sorry but BE only accepted official documents. I sent my P60, recent pension payslip and 3 months bank statements. Your nonsensical method wouldn't have washed with the BE.

It is NOT NONSENSICAL. IT IS 100% ACCURATE and BE DID accept the information supplied and issued the letter. He wasn't asked for any further proof of that income.

 

I know this person very well. If you read my post accurately and digest the information I supplied you will see this person used his last three months BANK statements to supply the BE with his income details and that is what the BE used for his income letter. He didn't even have to photoshop the statements, they were 100% accurate. It was purely the source of the 'rent' that wasn't accurate.

 

And YOU said in your post, 'bank statements' are official documents. 

 

I personally have been in Thailand for some fifteen years now and have used a BE income letter as part of my extension application in Chonburi every single year. I have only ever supplied bank statements for that letter. I have never ever been asked to supply any other documents to prove my income. That's how my mate got his idea to create a fictitious rental income to boost his pension income.

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, sumrit said:

It is NOT NONSENSICAL. IT IS 100% ACCURATE and BE DID accept the information supplied and issued the letter. He wasn't asked for any further proof of that income.

 

I know this person very well. If you read my post accurately and digest the information I supplied you will see this person used his last three months BANK statements to supply the BE with his income details and that is what the BE used for his income letter.

 

And YOU said in your post, 'bank statements' are official documents. 

 

I personally have been in Thailand for some fifteen years now and have used a BE income letter as part of my extension application in Chonburi every single year. I have only ever supplied bank statements for that letter. I have never ever been asked to supply any other documents to prove my income. That's how my mate got his idea to create a fictitious rental income to boost his pension income.

Oh, the ubiquitous "a friend". Understand now. ????

[sumrit]

Just now, Spidey said:

Oh, the ubiquitous "a friend". Understand now. ????

No NOT me, I don't need to do things illegally. If I was illegal I wouldn' be against others falsifying income and using against agents illegally supply false bank details and pay off IO's.

 

You, on the other hand, seem to be in favour of all the scams........I wonder why????????

[wayned]

31 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Since Immigration have indeed carried on accepting what they have been accepting for years from the rest of the less churlish Embassies, some may have jumped the gun or got it wrong. Do you think IO backed down and it is they who don't have the cajones, simply because a few Embassies spat the dummy?

Positively, it all started with the BE and then the others followed suit kinda like the BE calling the head of Immigration as "the right honorable gentleman" and bending over and being butt  (deleted).!

[Spidey]

6 minutes ago, sumrit said:

No NOT me, I don't need to do things illegally. If I was illegal I wouldn' be against others falsifying income and using against agents illegally supply false bank details and pay off IO's.

 

You, on the other hand, seem to be in favour of all the scams........I wonder why????????

I have empathy for others, less fortunate than me.

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

I have empathy for others, less fortunate than me.

I have friends caught up in this and certainly do not wish them to be forced out of Thailand

[Spidey]

9 minutes ago, wayned said:

Positively, it all started with the BE and then the others followed suit kinda like the BE calling the head of Immigration as "the right honorable gentleman" and bending over and being butt  (deleted).!

Far from the truth. The BE twisted TI's words and used them to end the embassy letters for their own reasons. Rather than the BE being butt <deleted>, the BE butt <deleted> TI.

 

And it's own citizens.

[indepth]

57 minutes ago, wayned said:

Because the 4 Embassies didn't have the balls to stand  up to Immigration and tell them that this is what you have accepted for years and if yo won't accept it any longer then you, Thai Immigration, release a statement to the citizens of these countries that you will no longer accept the Income Affidavits provided by them.  It would have never happened!

I didnt post "If you were correct , etc". But, what you say is rubbish, pure supposition, would never stand up in a court of law. Lets stick to the facts, just the facts.

[indepth]

20 minutes ago, wayned said:

Positively, it all started with the BE and then the others followed suit kinda like the BE calling the head of Immigration as "the right honorable gentleman" and bending over and being butt  (deleted).!

As you have been told hundred of times already, Oz embassy stopped the stat decs because they have no meaning out side of Australia and arnt to be used confirming income in Australia anyway. 

[Joe Mcseismic]

16 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Far from the truth. The BE twisted TI's words and used them to end the embassy letters for their own reasons. Rather than the BE being butt <deleted>, the BE butt <deleted> TI.

 

And it's own citizens.

Proof please, or, is this another episode of Jackanory?

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

Sorry but BE only accepted official documents.

I sent my P60, recent pension payslip and 3 months bank statements. //

That's not 100% true. BE used to accept copies of these document, sent by email. I know 2 Brits from my condo who said they "modified" some figures on these scanned documents to make things easier, and they didn't saw that as a problem as they really have the money invested in UK. They are now very annoyed to have to bring the money in Thailand, but will do it as no other choice.

 

PS: Don't make me say what I didn't say; I know TWO guys ONLY. I have no idea how many did the same. They certainly are not the only 2 ones, but I can easily believe that the majority of UK guys didn't lie this way.

Edit: for @indepth: there are far more than 2 Brits in my condominium 

[indepth]

People forget the women who are affected by the change too. Last nigh I went for my walk along the foreshore, saw a little old lady sitting on the sea wall, weeping, a farang. I asked her if I may sit, she just nodded. I asked , whats up love. She said she had to leave soon and pointed at the sea. After a bit more chit chat , between the tears, some from me too, she told ;me her story. She has been living with her thai defacto for 20 years, has 4 children and 9 grand children. She has ;not the money to stay with the new regs. I asked why she hadnt married her thai bloke, halve the amount required, she said she cant marry again as her first husband had his legs blown off in the second world war and when he died 30 years ago she started getting a small,  war widows pension. It stops if she marries again. She came to LOS on holidays, met the thai bloke and has been here ever since. Now, she has to leave her thai family and return to Oz, where she knows no one, her Oz family and friends all died out years ago. She never told her thai family she was going away forever, she made a vid telling them she loved them all and would be back soon. I asked when she was flying out, she said she wont be flying any where, and showed me a  bottle of pills. I asked her to wait there for a minute or two, off I went to find a cop to see if they could  do something about helping her. I couldnt find one, when I returned after an hour or so, she was gone. 

[jacko45k]

3 minutes ago, indepth said:

People forget the women who are affected by the change too. ETC

Surely she has options with Thai children!

[indepth]

11 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

That's not 100% true. BE used to accept copies of these document, sent by email. I know 2 Brits from my condo who said they "modified" some figures on these scanned documents to make things easier, and they didn't saw that as a problem as they really have the money invested in UK. They are now very annoyed to have to bring the money in Thailand, but will do it as no other choice.

 

PS: Don't make me say what I didn't say; I know TWO guys ONLY. I have no idea how many did the same. They certainly are not the only 2 ones, but I can easily believe that the majority of UK guys didn't lie this way.

" but I can easily believe that the majority of UK guys didn't lie this way." And I just as easily disagree, most I know lied about income. You have said that 100% of the Brits in your condo that you know also lied. 

[Chodi25]

5 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Surely she has options with Thai children!

No. I am male and have grown children here who are Thai citizens. Immigration does not consider that in the visa equation for me. I am divorced from my Thai wife so no help there. Having adult children (over 20) who are Thai citizens is no help at all with immigration. As I stated much earlier in this thread against my better judgement I am just going to top up one of my accounts here to 800k and leave it there. Not happy at all about having to do that.

[elviajero]

6 hours ago, indepth said:

There has been millions of posts that the old rules have changed. Funds seasoning is now law. Dont break the law in LOS, monkey house not too nice so ive been told. 

It’s not law. It’s a condition of being issued an extension. If you don’t meet the condition (“seasoning”) you simply don’t get the extension; and you can’t sent be to the “monkey house”!

[garyk]

Looks like the American embassy is shutting down the embassy letter in other countries as well. Effective January 1st. I am starting to think it's not what people here think it is.

 

[Felt 35]

16 minutes ago, garyk said:

starting to think it's not what people here think it is.

 

Hear ya...

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, Spidey said:

British expats didn't falsify income claims.

Wanna bet?

 

4 hours ago, Spidey said:

They provided documentary evidence to the embassy regarding their income and no, it wasn't easy to forge those documents.

The BE would accept pretty much anything and didn’t check authenticity. Some documents are very easily forged. And they didn’t need to see the original. 

 

4 hours ago, Spidey said:

The British Embassy letter clearly stated to TI what documents they had seen and based their income verification on. No lies, no deception involved. You have had this explained, in detail, to you before.

 

Change the record.

Not on the part of the BE, but if you think no one lied or provided false documents you are living in la la fluffy land!

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, Spidey said:

Sorry but BE only accepted official documents. I sent my P60, recent pension payslip and 3 months bank statements. Your nonsensical method wouldn't have washed with the BE.

No they didn’t; and they accepted the documents by email. A simple bank statement would have done!

 

I know someone that used a faked letter from a fake management company confirming inflated property rental income, and the BE issued a letter. 

[sumrit]

 

18 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

21 minutes ago, Spidey said:

I have empathy for others, less fortunate than me.

I have friends caught up in this and certainly do not wish them to be forced out of Thailand

While I understand what you're saying about your friends, and I certainly have sympathy for them, these changes have been coming to the surface for a long time. Better advice in the past might just have put them in a better position today.

 

I do hope your friends find a genuine LEGAL way to stay here, but if they can't then maybe Thailand is not for them.

 

People asking how they stay in Thailand illegally has been discussed on TV many times over the years and, 'pick a number then double/treble it for an income in an affidavit' or 'pay an agent to do the extension illegally', have been by far the most popular replies instead of advising people of reality. Using an agent to do things illegally is still being advised by some on these threads running now. (and I'm as guilty as others because I kept quiet and just muttered under my breath about how stupid that advice was. I also kept quiet while my mate was fiddling his income for his BE letter. I've only really started commenting here since these extension rules changed). Comment's have even suggested 'don't worry, immigration is stupid and only interested in promoting corruption'. And yes, Immigration have made it worse by allowing corruption to fester over time.

 

Thai immigration might be slow to change, but once they've made up their minds the writing's on the wall, change will happen. They definitely won't want to lose face. Over recent years they've restricted: illegal workers, insist on teachers having the correct qualifications, education visas, the land border runs, TM30's, obtaining non O visas, tourist visa rules, to name just a few. Now it's the turn of retirement extensions. The more people try to find a way round the rules the stricter they will become, for all of us. And, sooner or later, those of us abiding by the rules will start to resent the restrictions effectively imposed because of those people operating illegally.

 

On the upside, the size of the financial requirements have not changed in years. 800/400k baht in the bank option and the 65/40k baht monthly income option remains the same. Not even any inflation changes for many years. This suggests to me that Immigration are not trying to penalize us and make things more difficult for the legal expats. If they really want to force expats out, as suggested by some posters here, now, during the current changes would have been an ideal time to increase those minimum levels to give us a gentle push. The fact that they haven't suggests they are happy to have us stay here.......providing we are legal.

 

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, Chodi25 said:

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

Surely she has options with Thai children!

No. I am male and have grown children here who are Thai citizens. Immigration does not consider that in the visa equation for me. I am divorced from my Thai wife so no help there. Having adult children (over 20) who are Thai citizens is no help at all with immigration. As I stated much earlier in this thread against my better judgement I am just going to top up one of my accounts here to 800k and leave it there. Not happy at all about having to do that

That is completely wrong. It doesn’t matter how old your children are.

 

The age 20 rule applies to non Thai children of expats that want to stay in Thailand with their parent by piggybacking the expats permit to stay.

 

You can apply for an extension as the parent of a Thai as long as you have at least 400K in the bank when you apply. No seasoning required or minimum balance to maintain.

 

”In the case of parents, the father or mother must maintain an average annual
income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month throughout the year or must have 
deposited funds of no less than Baht 400,000 to cover expenses for one year.”

[jacko45k]

14 minutes ago, sumrit said:

can't then maybe Thailand is not for them.

Odd statement, it obviously is as they are all longer term guys, one particularly has long term partner and just got a house, Seems happy here. Why is it not for him, yet is for someone else. 

[lkv]

20 minutes ago, sumrit said:

, sooner or later, those of us abiding by the rules will start to resent the restrictions effectively imposed because of those people operating illegally.

Wherever there is a system that has loopholes, those loopholes will be exploited.

 

"Those people operating illegally" - are you talking about foreign applicants, Thai agents or Thai IO's?

[sumrit]

3 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Odd statement, it obviously is as they are all longer term guys, one particularly has long term partner and just got a house, Seems happy here. Why is it not for him, yet is for someone else. 

Because they're having to do so illegally. If people are married there's the cheaper marriage extension with the option of (part time?) working to subsidizing a low income.

[sumrit]

1 minute ago, lkv said:

Wherever there is a system that has loopholes, those loopholes will be exploited.

 

"Those people operating illegally" - are you talking about foreign applicants, Thai agents or Thai IO's?

Initially, both the foreign applicants and also the agents who encourage and exploit it. If the expats weren't looking for an illegal route there would be nothing for the agents to exploit and no backhanders to give the IO's.

[007 RED]

5 hours ago, Spidey said:

British expats didn't falsify income claims. They provided documentary evidence to the embassy regarding their income and no, it wasn't easy to forge those documents. The British Embassy letter clearly stated to TI what documents they had seen and based their income verification on. No lies, no deception involved. You have had this explained, in detail, to you before.

 

Change the record.

Spidey… Sorry but you don’t seem to be living in the real world.  Of course, it is possible to forge almost anything these days.  As I said to you once before, you should have taken a walk down the Khaosan Road before they sanitised it.

 

As you are aware the BE allowed applicants to email their application form to them for a letter confirming income together with copies of their supporting documents.  If the supporting documents were in JPEG or PDF formats, how would the BE be able to tell if they had been altered or not.  Just take a look at my P60 below and tell us if this is real or fake.

 

Also, The BE in their letter to Immigration never stated that they had verified that the figures provided by the applicant were true.  The words that the BE used were :–

 

“MR BOND has also stated that he receives monthly pensions totalling GBP 3100.71 and has shown us a P60 Tax Return from the Civil Service Pension Fund stating that he receives a pension of GBP 37208.53 per annum”.

 

So please, please stop protesting that people never submitted false information to their embassies in order to obtain a letter confirming income.  It happened and much more than most people realise, and this may well be the reason why Immigration insisted that four of the embassies verify their citizen’s income before providing a letter.

 

FYI.....  The answer to todays question above is that the P60 is fake and it took just 3 minutes to produce.