1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

No matter what rules are developed, agents can circumvent them - but only if corrupt IOs and/or bank staff cooperate.

 

The solution is not hard to understand, there is just no political will to implement it.

 

1. Outlaw Visa agents and enforce this.

 

2. Dismiss corrupt IOs.

 

 

Or implement a dead simple process. 1 million THB bond, interest bearing at market rates, issue a 2 weeks visa from the withdrawal date. Proof of health cover effective in Thailand should be added to the requirements.

 

For the family support visas, which are a completely different kettle of fish, a proper home study should be conducted; one should be allowed to have low income or assets, at long as all of it is dedicated to supporting one's family. 

Create a law which says that all cases of accused corruption have to go to court. Set a minimum jail sentence for people who get prosecuted for corruption, including dismissal of government service and voiding any government pension. In return up government salaries, especially for the lower ranks.

This would be a change at the root of it and would most likely set an end to the agent's business.

Doesn't matter how simple the process is, if agents are allowed to operate and corrupt IOs collude with them. 800K or 1million, this type of acocunt or the other, how is it different? the agents can still scam it as long as IOs cooperate with them.

Grant PR to all those with a valid extension and living here for the past 6 months. ????

 

If they had a Visa for ppl unser 50 who financially are ok or Retired young then they wouldnt have this problem..

17 minutes ago, KiChakayan said:

For the family support visas, which are a completely different kettle of fish, a proper home study should be conducted; one should be allowed to have low income or assets, at long as all of it is dedicated to supporting one's family. 

This is a very sensible suggestion. Your first suggestion in your post however ....hmmmmmmm.

Yes Illegal extensions signed off by (money collected) Legal Immigration officers... ALL THE WAY TO THE TOP!!!  

It only became a problem because of greedy Immigration officers.... that's why!

2 hours ago, Pilotman said:

BJ, if you are reading this, I can offer consultancy at reasonable rates. 

You'd need a WP for doing that.

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

No matter what rules are developed, agents can circumvent them - but only if corrupt IOs and/or bank staff cooperate.

 

The solution is not hard to understand, there is just no political will to implement it.

 

1. Outlaw Visa agents and enforce this.

 

2. Dismiss corrupt IOs.

 

 

easy said than done, but good idea

35 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Doesn't matter how simple the process is, if agents are allowed to operate and corrupt IOs collude with them. 800K or 1million, this type of acocunt or the other, how is it different? the agents can still scam it as long as IOs cooperate with them.

As best as I can judge, there are basically two reasons why one would use an agent.

 

1. The applicant is rich enough to be able to afford to have someone else do the legwork.

 

2. The applicant does not have the required finances and therefor 'cheats the system' by using a corrupt agent. (and hence a corrupt IO)

 

I've no issues with the first reason, but in order to address the second reason, ALL applicants via an agent should be screened in such a way as to prove, beyond any reasonable doubt, that it was they who provided the money that has been deposited in the bank, not the agent. They must also be subject to the same 'seasoning rules'.

 

This would have no impact on the rich applicant, but it would surely weed out the cheaters.

 

 

53 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Every Imm office i have ever used - a total of 4 different ones over the years - has physically examined the original bank book as well as asking for a copy.

I did not say they not do that they have always checked mine too, but if they are doing for an agent they could forget to check the bank book for a small fee once the bankbook is given back there is no way to check if it is correct or not so there can be no chance that the immigration officer can be found out if he has received a bribe while doing the extension

23 minutes ago, pattayadgw said:

It only became a problem because of greedy Immigration officers.... that's why!

nope, it's because the embassies decided stop providing income certificates

38 minutes ago, thequietman said:

This is a very sensible suggestion. Your first suggestion in your post however ....hmmmmmmm.

No worries, the point I am trying to make is that retirement is all about money, family support is about.. family. The conditions, and granting processes should reflect that.

 

Why not tell BJ directly?   

https://twitter.com/hakparn

1 hour ago, Huayrat said:

If they had a Visa for ppl unser 50 who financially are ok or Retired young then they wouldnt have this problem..

Right now Thailande Elite covers this quite effectively, for a reasonable 1 MThb.

They should have an extension whereby a Farang parent can be supported financially by a Thai child. In 2006-7 they tried this but ditched it after one year or less. You could obtain an extension, I got one, without showing money. It was considered as being the Thai way in that the child supports the parent in old age. Somewhat similar to a Thai man married to a farang lady. A farang female does not have show finances as her husband is seen to support her. And her husband does not have to show he supports her even though she may well be working and he isn't. The whole thing is b*****ks

24 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

nope, it's because the embassies decided stop providing income certificates

And rightly so. How could they provide a certificate to anyone walsing in to the ebassy claiming  (with one hand on the bible) that he/she have a 800K yearly income.

 

And it's not "the embassies", there was just 4 of them who stopped this 'service'.

3 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Maybe immigration could do a deal with the banks and introduce specific expat visa bank accounts. ......

The banks would get the extra business/funds, maybe even offer a couple of satang better ex rate etc, insurance options etc.

Thai banks would be much more likely to offer less interest to such a captive audience. There is nothing wrong with the existing accounts and the existing methods of verifying them. The rules just need to be applied.

11 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Why not tell BJ directly?   

https://twitter.com/hakparn

He doesn't understand the lingo, innit!

2 hours ago, offset said:

There is no paper trials for any body to check the bank account paperwork after a extension is given. The requirement is a copy of the front page and the page the 3 months is shown but there is nothing to show the page for the 3 months is the same book as the front page with the name on (can just issue a book with the name on it and copy any bodies 3 month page) so it is not easy to do a check at a later date

All my Thai bank books show the account number on every page. I think they know about fraud here.

3 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Maybe immigration could do a deal with the banks and introduce specific expat visa bank accounts. No problems opening them as they are expat accounts, immigration could access the accounts via their system. No need for ATM cards or books etc, account must have a minimum balance/deposits.

The banks would get the extra business/funds, maybe even offer a couple of satang better ex rate etc, insurance options etc.

Immigration should trust/treat us as normal people until proven otherwise & could make their own lives easier by granting PR after say 5 years of trouble-free living in LoS on married or retd extns.

HTH

45 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

All my Thai bank books show the account number on every page. I think they know about fraud here.

Kbank does not show number on any page only need 1 bank not to have it for a loop hole

2 hours ago, offset said:

Kbank does not show number on any page only need 1 bank not to have it for a loop hole 

It must at least show the book number, surely.

7 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

It must at least show the book number, surely.

Yes but only on the inside page with the name on it, there is nothing linking the other pages to the owners name or account number

You'd need a WP for doing that.

I'm sure an agent could organize that as well for a rather large fee

4 hours ago, Moonlover said:

As best as I can judge, there are basically two reasons why one would use an agent.

 

1. The applicant is rich enough to be able to afford to have someone else do the legwork.

 

2. The applicant does not have the required finances and therefor 'cheats the system' by using a corrupt agent. (and hence a corrupt IO)

 

I've no issues with the first reason, but in order to address the second reason, ALL applicants via an agent should be screened in such a way as to prove, beyond any reasonable doubt, that it was they who provided the money that has been deposited in the bank, not the agent. They must also be subject to the same 'seasoning rules'.

 

This would have no impact on the rich applicant, but it would surely weed out the cheaters.

#3.  The applicant has all the required finances, etc - but the IOs refusing to processes his honest application want the agent-money.  That was my experience - twice in a row - Non-O stamp, then marriage-extension.

 

And how do you get an IO who is being paid-off not to look at the seasoning, and his boss, and his bosses' boss on up, to actually look at the seasoning? 

6 hours ago, Spidey said:

Immigration Officers are police officers.

Hence, the irony.

 

6 hours ago, skatewash said:

I like both of these suggestions.  #2 would be an order of magnitude more difficult to do, but doing #1 would help a bit with #2.

Offer the agents a way out of a long-stay in the Bangkok Hilton by telling all.  Investigate the finances of the IOs they identify to see if their testimony is true.  It's not that hard to spot spending which exceeds salary-levels. 

 

I will break out the champagne when/if the IOs who jerked me around go to prison.

13 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

#3.  The applicant has all the required finances, etc - but the IOs refusing to processes his honest application want the agent-money.  That was my experience - twice in a row - Non-O stamp, then marriage-extension.

I couldn't even get an appointment to see Immigration about a VISA extension the last two times I tried in Chiang Mai. Unless I was prepared to queue all night, or use an agent.

Before that when they had online appointment bookings, they would make me wait 2-3 hours even though I was the first one on that day with an appointment.

Did I mention the VISA agents walking straight in with piles of 10-20 applications, while I was waiting.

 

Primary requirement if I was running the show;-

 

1. Immigration officers and offices should have no place in receiving funds in anyway. They should only create the payment requirement online, that in turn should be in turn given at random to a section in a commercial or government bank. The common link would just be a reference number as a primary key in the database. It's then just a banking function, the sections in the banks can easily rotate staff with minimal training. Immigration offices would not know where the payment is being handled, so no networking with bank staff. If networking with bank staff was attempted, easy to deter with random Audits. 

 

2. For Customers, all payments to immigration should be via the bank, in branch, online or easy through ATM prompt pay. Receipt and reference to the customer, just like online shopping. . (Immigration gets almost instant confirmation, on their office terminal, so they can tick the box).

 

Nobody should be going into an immigration office with more cash than they need e.g. for transport a coffee and curry and rice at CW!

 

After all it is 2562, come on let's make progress.