The Latest Info on Retirement Visas from Immigrations

[indepth]

If you members would read what ubonjoe has written before posting, there would not be 6, so far, pages of ifs and whats. 

[Sheryl]

6 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

My Thai wife doesn't read it that way. She reads all the Thai language documents as being from BKK and having nothing to do with Petchabun...

 

The last 2 pages have no sort of header.  look like they are an add on, not a part of the Bangkok issuance.

 

If these 2 pages were attached to order 35/2019 when it was sent out, no wonder IOs are ocnfused as it contradicts the guidance issued in December regarding the income method.

 

But its format does not look like what Bkk TI uses when it lists documentation requirements. Usually they have multiple columns, showing the relevant directive and then the applicable documentation.

[jacko45k]

19 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Joe, could be wrong about this,

I think he is correct.

[brokenbone]

is the combo method still valid ?

how much do i need in thai account with combo method ?

[Pattaya46]

deleted. misread.

Edited February 10, 2019 by Pattaya46

[CharlieH]

Is it not fair to say, that no matter what is or isnt stated at any one office or on a notice, that the rules have and usually are, interpreted and enforced in varying ways by local/regional offices. To try to nail it down to one set is almost impossible, it has and I suspect will remain up to the local office and what they specifically want if you are to obtain a visa of any description from that office.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

I have a retired western friend who recently went to apply for his one year retirement visa extension.  He has been in Thailand for over ten years with a retirement visa.  He showed the immigration officers (secretaries in uniforms) his US brokerage account with a little over $1,000,000 in various mutual funds.  This is one million in US dollars.  

 

 

1. What office was he applying at?

 

2. Was he applying based on the value of his stock holdings, or, on the basis of showing that they generated $40,000 year in income?  And not documented with an Embassy income letter?

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

12 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

The last 2 pages have no sort of header.  look like they are an add on, not a part of the Bangkok issuance.

 

If these 2 pages were attached to order 35/2019 when it was sent out, no wonder IOs are ocnfused as it contradicts the guidance issued in December regarding the income method.

 

 

I don't read Thai. But my wife says the Jan 18 memo from the national police chief specifically refers to ensuing attachments with the additional details... I'm talking about the 4th page of the packet, the two-column TH language version of section 2.22... 

 

The last two pages, the single column list of requirements in TH and then the EN translation, those I can't speak to. But I agree, those two pages don't look like the usual Central BKK document.

 

 

Edited February 10, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[CMNightRider]

1 minute ago, Thaidream said:

I would concur- the last 2 pages  are a local produced document which attempts to explain the official order- IMHO- the interpretation of Phetchabun regarding  the 65K transfer is wrong-  the original police order makes it clear that this is the established income method in lieu if having an Embassy Letter

 

I , for one, am drafting a letter to the US Embassy  making them aware of the chaos they have helped unleash on its citizens in their reckless abandonment of the official Embassy letter.  I hope others do the same.

I sent a letter to these people myself and they never responded.  The consulate people are part of the problem, and are fully aware of what their failure to issue "Income Verification Letters" have caused.  

 

Apparently, this is what they want.  We cannot count on our consulate for anything.  Most of them are just warming seats until they get promoted or moved to a more desirable country. ????

[jacko45k]

31 minutes ago, billsmart said:

No, it's even worse than that... ???? And, I'm from the US, so I'm in the same boat as you regarding this situation.

The INTERNATIONAL bank deposits (and make sure you note the "INTERNATIONAL" part) will only work for extensions in 2019. After that, only THB 800K in the bank will qualify for US,  UK,  and any others who can't get an embassy letter.

That's what I was told Friday at my Immigration Office in Phetchabun.

I think Petchabun has screwed up here and as Ubonjoe says not seen the previous order whereby those from the 4 Embassies were given the accommodation of 65k monthly deposits from overseas into a Thai bank verified by statements. That or Phetchabun have just got it wrong.

[ubonjoe]

21 minutes ago, billsmart said:

Thanks, but I can't read Thai. What's the date on this? If it's earlier than Jan 28, the documents I were given are more recent. And again. what I was told was INTERNATIONAL bank deposits would be accepted, but only through 2019.

It is dated December 21st. The ones they gave were a different order issued on January 18th.

This is the English translation of that document. Amendment to police order 138/2557 Revising clauses 2.18 and 2.22 to include options for proof of income.

[thequietman]

12 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

You are wrong, and you know it... 

If you are not 50 you will not qualify to an offer reserved to people over 50...

but you will be welcomed using Elite Visa or alike. 

Thailand Visa Information : Non-Immigrant Visa "O-A" (Long Stay) This type of visa may be issued to applicants aged 50 years and over who wish to stay in Thailand for a period of not exceeding 1 year without the intention of working. Holder of this type of visa is allowed to stay in Thailand for 1 year.

 

I refer you to me previous post which states "So, if you are only 50, are a millionaire and are financially dependent ................ then they don't want you here!

Edited February 10, 2019 by thequietman

[offset]

I think if this is all true they have just given themselves 11 months to see how things go before they change there minds again

[Lacessit]

The OP states the seasoning requirement prior to the next extension is three months. If I have read the police order put out by Ubon Joe on a previous thread correctly, it is two months. Which is correct?

[thequietman]

51 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

If you are a millionaire, and under 50 you can get an investment visa and an elite visa, above 50 you can get an investment visa,  an elite visa and a retirement visa. So what are you on about?

I said This! "So, if you are only 50, are a millionaire and are financially dependent ................ then they don't want you here!"

 

Where do you see under 50? Seriously, where?

[thaicurious]

25 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Those are the ones for the money in the bank option.

Same as this one. Police Oder 35/2562 Changing 327/2557 Clause 2.22 Thai text.

There is also one that changes a few things for 3 other types of extension.

FYI Your posted Police Oder 35/2562 pdf file might not speak to the issue if I'm reading it right with google translate app.

 

That app now has a camera feature which works even on the computer screen.  From what I'm reading the translation doesn't seem to relate to the topic.

 

PS Google Translate is an ad-free, free app available online at the Play Store.

Edited February 10, 2019 by thaicurious

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It is dated December 21st. The ones they gave were a different order issued on January 18th.

This is the English translation of that document. Amendment to police order 138/2557 Revising clauses 2.18 and 2.22 to include options for proof of income.

 

So, again, it seems, the key issue is does the Jan. 18 memo from the national police chief and its attached version of 2.22 (without any mention of monthly income deposits to a Thai bank account) supercede the Dec. 21 version, or something else?

 

[mngmn]

I am sitting here having finished my bowl of stone cold noodle soup, with a few meatballs and some scragy bits of pork, indifferently served by someone who could not care less, wondering why I am even bothering to take an interest in this thread.

[jacko45k]

6 minutes ago, mngmn said:

I am sitting here having finished my bowl of stone cold noodle soup, with a few meatballs and some scragy bits of pork, indifferently served by someone who could not care less, wondering why I am even bothering to take an interest in this thread.

Divorce her!????

[phuketrichard]

1 hour ago, billsmart said:

Here is what Transferwise replied to my enquiry about this:

 

"

Hi William,

I hope this email reaches you well.

The basis of how TransferWise operates is that we’re able to move funds internationally without the money physically crossing borders. This is achieved through a series of two domestic transfers— a domestic transfer from your account to our account and another local transfer from our account in the currency the recipient is receiving into their local account. We’re able to offer better rates and less fees to our customers by executing transfers in this manner.

Unfortunately, there is not a way that we can change the way we complete transfers since this is a fundamental part of how we operate as a company.

I’ve included additional information on how TransferWise works for you HERE.

Feel free to reach out with any additional questions.

All the best,
Wilson"

Ie. the age old" hawala "method to move money

[ChouDoufu]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Probably not as the amount is not guaranteed?

brokerage accounts not permitted.  funds have to be immediately accessible.

 

if it were allowed, you'd have to have the account at a thai brokerage, meaning you're stuck with thai stocks, and perhaps a dozen etf's.   you could place your sell orders, maybe find buyers, but still need to wait 3-5 days for settlement.

 

maybe could make a case for bond etf's through any of the major thai banks.

 

 

[billsmart]

15 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I think Petchabun has screwed up here and as Ubonjoe says not seen the previous order whereby those from the 4 Embassies were given the accommodation of 65k monthly deposits from overseas into a Thai bank verified by statements. That or Phetchabun have just got it wrong.

That, or the documents I got on Friday from Phetchabun which were dated AFTER the other order have got it right.

 

I'm not trying to play "I'm smarter than you are," (although my last name is "Smart" ????). I'm just trying to share some very disturbing information I was given with you all. You should all go to your Immigrations office and ask all the things that are pertinent to you yourselves. I did, and this is what I was told and given.
 

[CMNightRider]

10 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

1. What office was he applying at?

 

2. Was he applying based on the value of his stock holdings, or, on the basis of showing that they generated $40,000 year in income?  And not documented with an Embassy income letter?

 

Well, the total amount of money in his brokerage account clearly is over 800,000 baht, and $40,000 far exceeds 65,000 baht.  He didn't have an income verification letter because he didn't know the consulate had ceased providing the letters.  

 

It wouldn't matter which immigration office one goes to.  All immigration offices are staffed with people who receive the same training.  These people only have to know very basic instructions, and fill out the same forms day after day, month after month, and year after year, with little changes.

 

It is obvious, the main instructions the officers are being required to adhere too, is make sure the foreigner deposits the required amount in a Thai bank.  This is the end goal.

 

This is the reason expats are leaving Thailand, and no I didn't take a poll to see how many are leaving.  I don't care how many leave or stay.  I do find it interesting and at times nauseating to read some of the posts applauding immigration on ridding these bad expats from Thailand, and how only the expats who turn a blind eye to common sense and hand over their money to Thai banks, are being referred to as the good expats Thailand is looking for. 

 

You feather merchants can figure out on your own which group you belong to.  You don't need me to do this for you.  I'm just pointing out the obvious for the more intelligent posters on this site.  

[ubonjoe]

19 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

So, again, it seems, the key issue is does the Jan. 18 memo from the national police chief and its attached version of 2.22 (without any mention of monthly income deposits to a Thai bank account) supercede the Dec. 21 version, or something else?

The January 18th memo revised clause 2.22 of police order 327/2557 basis for extension of stay for the money in the bank option only.

The December 21st order revised clause 2.18 and 2.22 of police order 138/2557 documents for extension of stay for proof of income.

You can download all of them in this pinned topic.

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/981135-laws-regulations-police-orders-etc/

 

[jacko45k]

9 minutes ago, billsmart said:

I'm not trying to play "I'm smarter than you are," (although my last name is "Smart" ????). I'm just trying to share some very disturbing information I was given with you all. You should all go to your Immigrations office and ask all the things that are pertinent to you yourselves. I did, and this is what I was told and given.

I just put forward my thoughts, I certainly know no better! I did get told, 'there is more to come' after the March 1st changes and just maybe, this is it! Actually I plan to carry on as before except KEEP the 800k untouched!

[Lacessit]

15 minutes ago, mngmn said:

I am sitting here having finished my bowl of stone cold noodle soup, with a few meatballs and some scragy bits of pork, indifferently served by someone who could not care less, wondering why I am even bothering to take an interest in this thread.

Have you thought you might get better service and food by moving up from the 25 baht stall?

[jacko45k]

10 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

This is the reason expats are leaving Thailand, and no I didn't take a poll to see how many are leaving.

Actually a few questions were asked at the Expats Club meeting. This was prior to the OP here of course. 

How many plan to leave Thailand because of this.... nobody... how many stay here based on money in the bank...about 45+%, how many will now just leave the money there... similar. How many use income, about 40%. The rest 10% or less, used agents.

Rest were asleep or had died.

Edited February 10, 2019 by jacko45k

[CMNightRider]

10 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

brokerage accounts not permitted.  funds have to be immediately accessible.

 

if it were allowed, you'd have to have the account at a thai brokerage, meaning you're stuck with thai stocks, and perhaps a dozen etf's.   you could place your sell orders, maybe find buyers, but still need to wait 3-5 days for settlement.

 

maybe could make a case for bond etf's through any of the major thai banks.

 

 

Thank you for your well written response and sharing your extensive knowledge about brokerage accounts.  I'm sure many of the feather merchants on this site found your information both interesting and informative.  I know I did, kop khun kop. :-)

[FritsSikkink]

30 minutes ago, thequietman said:

I said This! "So, if you are only 50, are a millionaire and are financially dependent ................ then they don't want you here!"

 

Where do you see under 50? Seriously, where?

They do want you here if a millionaire no matter what age, so you talk utter nonsense.

[thequietman]

15 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

They do want you here if a millionaire no matter what age, so you talk utter nonsense.

I was wrong, sorry. ????

Edited February 10, 2019 by thequietman