Contested divorce

[DeaconJohn]

My Thai wife of 30+ years wants to divorce me.

For about 10 years now, ever since the onset of middle-age, she has been experiencing increasingly frequent bouts of depression where she blames me for everything and wants out of the marriage.

I'm in my mid-70s dealing with some serious health problems.

We have two grown daughters, both married and doing very well. Our eldest is a C-6 official at a government ministry in Bangkok. Thanks to her, I get complete health coverage including meds. Nevertheless, I'm dependent on my wife to make doctor's appointments and many other things connected with my hospital visits every few months.

Otherwise, I'm also dependent on my marriage status to qualify for my yearly visa extension. Frankly speaking, I just don't have money enough for any other way to stay in Thailand legally. A divorce would make my situation here untenable and leave me with no viable alternatives. A return to Farangland after all these years is out of the question.

Assets are not an issue. We have a house in Chiang Mai, a small fruit farm in the nearby countryside, and three rental houses in town. A Honda City and a Toyota pickup are included. Everything is in my wife's name.

I'm too old to care about any of it. I've lived my life here happily in spite of having to accommodate myself to an occasionally rocky marriage. I've had my day.

My question is this:  If I don't agree to the divorce, what action can my wife take on her own? I'm well aware that if both parties agree, divorce is a simple matter. But what if I refuse?  The obvious answer would be to consult a lawyer. That is what I will probably have to do eventually if things get worse. But in the meantime I would like to learn as much about the legal aspects of the situation as possible.

Any relevant information would be sincerely appreciated.

 

[Sheryl]

A few observations:

 

1. What on earth to you have to gain by refusing a divorce if your wife really wants one? You need her active cooperation to get extension of stay based on marriage. Just still being legally married won't do the trick. Especially if she moves out, which you have no way of preventing.

 

2. It is very likely that at least part of your wife's problems are due to menopause and that hormone replacement therapy would help. Try to persuade her to see a doctor specializing in menopause (if you indicate where you live I'll suggest one). If she does nto listen to you perhaps ask your daughter to try.

 

3. Assets are a problem given that they are all in your wife's name. If they were acquired after marriage you would be entitled upon divorce to 50% of their value and this might be a way to resolve your visa dilemma. Make clear to your wife that you know your rights and want 50% of the value of the property in exchange for agreeing to divorce (if she remains adament that she wants to). This would of course require selling at least some of it in order to get the cash.

 

4. As for your dependency on your wife, from the sounds of it a simple housekeeper could do the same things for you. Even a part-time one. Shouldn't cost that much and especially if you receive a cash settlement on the divorce, you could afford it (remember though to put aside 800K in a bank account and leave it there for visa purposes).

 

 

It doesn't sound like much of a marriage, to be honest, and one  can understand her desire to get out. It also sounds like you wouldn't miss her if you could sort out the visa aspect and your practical assistance needs.

[DeaconJohn]

52 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

A few observations:

 

1. What on earth to you have to gain by refusing a divorce if your wife really wants one? You need her active cooperation to get extension of stay based on marriage. Just still being legally married won't do the trick. Especially if she moves out, which you have no way of preventing.

 

2. It is very likely that at least part of your wife's problems are due to menopause and that hormone replacement therapy would help. Try to persuade her to see a doctor specializing in menopause (if you indicate where you live I'll suggest one). If she does nto listen to you perhaps ask your daughter to try.

 

3. Assets are a problem given that they are all in your wife's name. If they were acquired after marriage you would be entitled upon divorce to 50% of their value and this might be a way to resolve your visa dilemma. Make clear to your wife that you know your rights and want 50% of the value of the property in exchange for agreeing to divorce (if she remains adament that she wants to). This would of course require selling at least some of it in order to get the cash.

 

4. As for your dependency on your wife, from the sounds of it a simple housekeeper could do the same things for you. Even a part-time one. Shouldn't cost that much and especially if you receive a cash settlement on the divorce, you could afford it (remember though to put aside 800K in a bank account and leave it there for visa purposes).

 

 

It doesn't sound like much of a marriage, to be honest, and one  can understand her desire to get out. It also sounds like you wouldn't miss her if you could sort out the visa aspect and your practical assistance needs.

Thanks for your common sense reply.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, DeaconJohn said:

Frankly speaking, I just don't have money enough for any other way to stay in Thailand legally.

Your Thai daughter could get you a Dependents extension, with her supporting you in your old age.

No money is required to be shown by you, but I believe she needs to show an income of 25k/month.

[plachon]

Sorry to hear about your situation. As a matter of interest, even though the properties are in your name, were you the one who actually paid for them in reality? I'm assuming so, in which case, could you not split the value of the assets in a not-contested divorce (in an agreement drawn up by a lawyer), with your wife remaining in main house and you go live in one of the rental properties in town yourself? Sale of other rental properties, if worth half the value of main property might be able to help your wife then pay you your 50 % share of main property. Perhaps where you go to live could be signed over to name of one of your daughters, thus giving you security in to the future. 

Just an idea, which no doubt you've already considered.

 

[Banana7]

I've observed similar behaviour in older Thai women in long-term relationships with a farang. As soon as the old guy really needs her assistance, there is minimal or no assistance. Also the woman seems to be embarrassed to be walking in public with an old guy using a walker. Bragging rights of having a foreigner are gone.

 

In your case, it seems she is trying to abandon you in your greatest time of need. Personally, I wouldn't want a person staying with me who doesn't want to stay with me. If you don't give her a divorce, she may try to get rid of you another way, where you end up at the Wat in a crematorium.

 

Money is very important in Thailand. Don't let go of your rights to the assets acquired during marriage. You'll need lots of cash in the bank for a retirement visa and for new expenses. Previous advice given by Sheryl, sounds solid. Get a retirement visa, get a condo in your own name, get a live-in helper or part-time helper. Take control of your life and be independent of others, except for paid servants. Don't be at the mercy or charity of someone else. Many condos have restaurants in the condo or very close-by, some even deliver to your condo room.

Edited February 11, 2019 by Banana7

[HLover]

Exactly, the kids are supposed to take care of the parents here. Where are the children in this equation?

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 5:24 AM, Banana7 said:

Money is very important in Thailand. Don't let go of your rights to the assets acquired during marriage. You'll need lots of cash in the bank for a retirement visa and for new expenses. Previous advice given by Sheryl, sounds solid. Get a retirement visa

Unless she co operates, his chances of getting enough money appear slim.

My sympathy to the OP, but every farang contemplating marrying a Thai woman should read the OP, and take steps to avoid being in the same situation should the worst happen.

 

I was lucky and got an uncontested divorce, and managed to keep some money, though I lost everything I had bought for the house. Still ended up with not enough money to continue living in LOS, much to my everlasting despair. Life back in my own country is <deleted> so I understand how the OP feels about going "home".

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 5:31 AM, HLover said:

Exactly, the kids are supposed to take care of the parents here. Where are the children in this equation?

Perhaps they grew up with western attitudes and don't think its their job.

[DeaconJohn]

On 2/11/2019 at 10:31 PM, plachon said:

Sorry to hear about your situation. As a matter of interest, even though the properties are in your name, were you the one who actually paid for them in reality? I'm assuming so, in which case, could you not split the value of the assets in a not-contested divorce (in an agreement drawn up by a lawyer), with your wife remaining in main house and you go live in one of the rental properties in town yourself? Sale of other rental properties, if worth half the value of main property might be able to help your wife then pay you your 50 % share of main property. Perhaps where you go to live could be signed over to name of one of your daughters, thus giving you security in to the future. 

Just an idea, which no doubt you've already considered.

 

You make some good suggestions about the equitable sharing of assets.

Yes, I was the one who bought - or built - most of what we have. Everything is in my wife's name [you misread my post] and she has always managed the properties very well. 

The last thing I want is to be involved with land office bureaucrats or tenants.  Our two daughters are in line to inherit everything in due course.  I don't want to make any changes to that plan.

It isn't so much loss of assets that concerns me as it is the break up of my marriage. All my problems arise from the unpredictable mood swings of my wife.

Basically, what I want to do is stonewall a divorce and continue to live and work on our farm and come into town every few days for short stays as I have been for many years now.

That will be possible if her mental health issues, personality disorder, or whatever it is doesn't take a turn for the worse. So far, I've been able to navigate the mood changes and cajole her into helping me with visa and health matters.

If she really starts to lose it and demands a divorce, I'm screwed.

[emptypockets]

Perhaps trying to get her to see a doctor to treat the depression might be a thought.

[DeaconJohn]

20 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

Perhaps trying to get her to see a doctor to treat the depression might be a thought.

Our family is working on that.

There is a lady psychiatrist, or psychologist, at Suan Prung by the name of Ajahn Kittiwan - or something close to that - who has a very good reputation in Chiang Mai.

The difficulty is getting my wife to admit that she has a problem.

[Time Traveller]

On 2/10/2019 at 9:17 PM, DeaconJohn said:

My question is this:  If I don't agree to the divorce, what action can my wife take on her own?

Probably not go with you to immigration to get your yearly extension. Kind of need a co-operative wife for that!

 

But seriously, you've been here 30 years and you can't even make a doctor appointment for yourself? You need to start being able to do things for yourself. If you're married then half of the assets belong to you, regardless of whether they are in her name or not. And to hear you have a home, farm, 3 investment house and car, then you're complaining you don't have income to show for your extension of stay is comical. SELL some of your assets.  

 

 

[Sheryl]

Our family is working on that.
There is a lady psychiatrist, or psychologist, at Suan Prung by the name of Ajahn Kittiwan - or something close to that - who has a very good reputation in Chiang Mai.
The difficulty is getting my wife to admit that she has a problem.

Maybe start by having her see a GYN specializing in menopause for hormone replacement therapy. Hormonal changes are almost surely involved when this sirt of oersonality change occurs at that age.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[xylophone]

On 2/13/2019 at 8:54 PM, DeaconJohn said:

The last thing I want is to be involved with land office bureaucrats or tenants.  Our two daughters are in line to inherit everything in due course.  I don't want to make any changes to that plan.

With respect, you may have to get involved with your property issues to sort them out to suit your needs, and anyway any short-term changes in this will not affect the inheritance due to your daughters.

 

Take control of that which will ease your dilemma and suit your purpose, even if it means dealing with folks that you don't want to, mainly because you need to do something to help yourself/your situation.

 

The above would be a fallback position if visits to the hospital specialists don't provide some solution/cure.........and hard as it may sound, have you ever thought that she is tired of the position she is in and really does want out? 

 

Sometimes facing reality is the hardest part about it all. 

[4MyEgo]

On 2/11/2019 at 4:17 PM, DeaconJohn said:

Assets are not an issue. We have a house in Chiang Mai, a small fruit farm in the nearby countryside, and three rental houses in town. A Honda City and a Toyota pickup are included.

Sorry to hear about your predicament, I cannot offer you anymore advise than what most have already offered you, and can only hope things work out for the both of you, even though you sound as if you will end up with less in these last years in your life.

 

The properties being willed to your kids is a good idea, however circumstances have changed and, I would like to think that as you say, they are doing very well, then perhaps it's time for you to cash in and allow the kids (adults) to receive whatever is left after you depart, also considering property here doesn't really appreciate and you need the money for your own security and comfort of life, sure the kids (adults) would understand.

 

On 2/11/2019 at 4:17 PM, DeaconJohn said:

Everything is in my wife's name.

This cannot be mentioned enough times by me and others, with no disrespect to you.

 

Only invest as much as your prepared to lose with any woman if it's your money, i.e. that should be no more than 10% of your worth.

 

I say that because plan B, the exit plan is much easier to action when things go wrong, e.g. I have been VERY happily married to my wife of 12 years and have children with her, however 90% of my worth is invested back in the old country and she has no claim to it (prenuptial agreement), the house here, the car, bike and everything else in the house is hers paid for by me, i.e. the 10% I am prepared to lose, however if anything ever went pear shape then I could walk away and not be in such a predicament, love is one thing, assets are another, have learned from my 1st marriage of 12 years, although I did end up with a 50/50 split, it almost got ugly and could have ended up in court with me probably losing 25% of the 50% that I ended up getting, plus legals as we had a child together.

 

Love is only as good as long as it lasts and if you are in a partnership and have gone all in, then you will wish you didn't, just saying.

Edited February 17, 2019 by 4MyEgo

[sead]

Wont the daughters help you with the divorce? Someone leaving when you are in big need would make me angry. Threatening you going to take some things when you divorce can make you disappear faster, even after 30 years. 

[jimn]

I really do sympathise with your situation. However it does seem to me that your mind is already made up on how you want to map out your future. Sheryl has offered you clear advice on how you should handle this but you have made it clear what you want to do. Seems pretty pointless to me opening up a topic asking for advice if you are not going to listen and just want to seek reassurances of what you clearly want to happen. Best of luck.

[Poopyface]

It is easy to armchair quarterback this but what I am reading is the complex reality of long term human relationships. Sounds to me like the OP is in fact facing his potential realities but yet hoping to maintain the best case scenario.

Yes he is asking for advice advice and yes he is hopeful about avoiding divorce. Not pointless at all. Life and love is complicated stuff especially with a huge background. Optimism is powerful stuff.

 

I'm hoping his wife gets in for help, with the support of the kids. And I hope she sees the relationship through and takes care of the OP as he no doubt has supported her though the years.

 

Wishing you the best sir.

[The Theory]

On 2/13/2019 at 9:45 PM, emptypockets said:

Perhaps trying to get her to see a doctor to treat the depression might be a thought.

The depression caused by at least 40 years difference in age (plus more). No treatment for this kind. 

I’m sorry for OP, but this could be a lesson to some others.

Age difference is something that anyone needs to consider before marriage (especially farang men).

it usually begins very beautiful, but ends ugly. 

 

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, The Theory said:

it usually begins very beautiful, but ends ugly.

AWALT.

[catman20]

On 2/11/2019 at 11:24 PM, Banana7 said:

I've observed similar behaviour in older Thai women in long-term relationships with a farang. As soon as the old guy really needs her assistance, there is minimal or no assistance. Also the woman seems to be embarrassed to be walking in public with an old guy using a walker. Bragging rights of having a foreigner are gone.

 

In your case, it seems she is trying to abandon you in your greatest time of need. Personally, I wouldn't want a person staying with me who doesn't want to stay with me. If you don't give her a divorce, she may try to get rid of you another way, where you end up at the Wat in a crematorium.

 

Money is very important in Thailand. Don't let go of your rights to the assets acquired during marriage. You'll need lots of cash in the bank for a retirement visa and for new expenses. Previous advice given by Sheryl, sounds solid. Get a retirement visa, get a condo in your own name, get a live-in helper or part-time helper. Take control of your life and be independent of others, except for paid servants. Don't be at the mercy or charity of someone else. Many condos have restaurants in the condo or very close-by, some even deliver to your condo room.

sound advice .....good post

[how241]

30 minutes ago, The Theory said:

The depression caused by at least 40 years difference in age (plus more). No treatment for this kind. 

I’m sorry for OP, but this could be a lesson to some others.

Age difference is something that anyone needs to consider before marriage (especially farang men).

it usually begins very beautiful, but ends ugly. 

 

You might be right.  If the lady is 45-55,  she has a good chance to find a new younger man around 55-65 to start a new life with him.  While it may seem cold for her to abandon you,  she might think it is her last chance to make a life for herself.  In the perfect world,  she would stay and care for you until the end  BUT in the real world I can't blame her as she is also getting older too.  Follow that many good suggestions already given here.  Good Luck !!! 

[Sheryl]

An insensitive troll post has been removed

[Destiny1990]

Yes most likely the assets will not become ur problem so don’t worry.

[xtrnuno41]

You are in 70-ties and wife in 30-ties, ok grown daughters, quick actions. Bit puzzling.

in 30-ties there is no menopause, starts later in 40-ties up to 50-ties, it can last 10 years. What i understood by reading about it.

Had too ,as im involved now with a 51 yo Thai woman.

However 30-ties also has problems. My wife (we had same age) decided to divorce, out of the blue for me. We had 2 young kids and i thought all was going well, NOT.

uuuh uuuh, in their mind its running otherwise.

I spoke to some other men (mostly college which i knew also divorced or even were in it ) about it, and they had the same problem as i had. 

30-ties and divorce, so i call it the 30-blues. I felt somehow relieved, as i thought i was crazy. What did i miss? Still dont know.

 

After that life, it seems like i was attracting more problem cases. Incredible, and it didnt matter what country or race they were, yup.

So it is in women and depending probably on hormones running, complicated. One day sweet ,other day a bitch or just swinging in between on the same day. You ll never know.

Food also has to do with it. If sugar level is low, mostly not good. And of course stres of any kind, they keep it all the time with them and effects.

I think about the story in the bible (not that im a believer), but the first woman had a change in mind and listened to have the forbidden fruit, then she persuaded her hubby  

and gave it to him. OK down paradise. Women never changed in that and you ll have to be aware for that. It doesnt matter if you do good, although it looks like men who dont care has more potential. Just be an assh**** man.

 

Your case , very difficult. Try to get some properties or cars for sale, so having money for retirement visa, i  know its 800 kbaht.  You ll need to get that money anyway, anyhow.

You ll have to sweet talk with your dragon. Very difficult to get things done. She has to be in a good mood, never the less it can just shift like that in a jiffy.

Maybe also get a rental house you have for usfruct/lease to you! As long as you live , youll stay there and when you die its hers or your daughters again.

Yha too bad for the tenants, but it is now YOU ! I know how you feel with everything bad is coming down on you now. 

You ll have to talk with the dragon and prevent the fire spitting part.

You ll have to fight for your right though you dont feel like that. The dragon is, your "wife" changed and evil, greed has come over her, i know and many more other men know.

 

Your properties were bought IN marriage?! Then you have right on the 50%. You need to get your money, to be in Thailand. COntact with a good lawyer is essential.

 As several people suggested for your health and hospital visits, you have to find a Thai taking care for you, by paying ofcourse, rent a personal household person to  do

the things for you. A live- in would be the best of course you ll have to pay and also consider her/his wishes .

There are also professionnel agencies i saw on a billboard last time i was in Thailand. I thought, someone saw that good as business opportunity.

Lots of farangs in Thailand and ... they are older maybe alone and need help. Absolutely no idea how much that would cost. 

 

 

[Jess Incm]

Stay as a dependant of your Thai daughter.

[DJ54]

1 hour ago, xtrnuno41 said:

You are in 70-ties and wife in 30-ties, ok grown daughters, quick actions. Bit puzzling.

Did I misread something? I thought they’ve been married 30 years.

 

My Thai wife of 30+ years wants to divorce me. For about 10 years now,

 

She’d probably be mid to late 40s..... OP can you clarify how old your wife is?

 

[DeaconJohn]

3 hours ago, The Theory said:

The depression caused by at least 40 years difference in age (plus more). No treatment for this kind. 

I’m sorry for OP, but this could be a lesson to some others.

Age difference is something that anyone needs to consider before marriage (especially farang men).

it usually begins very beautiful, but ends ugly. 

 

I'm 74, my wife is 62. 

 

[kannot]

14 minutes ago, DeaconJohn said:

I'm 74, my wife is 62. 

 

hope  u can sort it out,must be  very difficult at that sort of age when u r  looking for security.