The older I get, the more I am ignored here!

[Neeranam]

Just an observation, when I was in my 20's, Thais used accept that I could speak the language. Now, in my early 50's, they expect me not to speak Thai. Regularly, with my teenage daughters, I'm ignored. Out for dinner with my wife, she gets the menu and 9 times out of 10, I don't.

My Thai has improved in 2 decades, so that is not the issue. 

Am I missing something?

Have I become a grumpy looking old man that nobody wants to speak to?

Sitting in a coffee shop now, where the girl asked if I could speak Thai. I said yes, and she continued to speak pidgin English with me, despite me telling her it was best to talk in Thai.

Sigh, I'll never understand this culture completely

[LomSak27]

Fun little Tale from Nakhon Nowhere.

 

The best western Thai speaker I ever ran into was a German woman who came here in the 1970’s, married a Thai Chinese. Lived up country when there were no expats, only the occasional CUSO and Peace Corps, that for two decades. BTW She speaks German, French, English, passable Dutch and excellent Thai. In fact, I have never met a westerner who speaks better Thai than her although I’m sure somewhere someone does.
 

The upshot of this, she would go to a local market and even though she would pud perfect passa Thai. As often as not the vendor would turn to her daughter who looks Thai and ask her. So the question is do they just not hear,  if it comes out of a farangs mouth? This women would say at least half the time, that is indeed the case.

 

So no worries relax, have a beer. That is just the way it’s going to be, might as well get used to it.

 

 

[kokesaat]

Next time the waitress speaks pidgen English, tell her (in Thai) that you can't speak English (there are some expats who can't speak English!)

 

Next time the waitress doesn't give you a menu, ask for one in Thai.  

 

After you all get menus, ask each one what they want.  Then the waiter/waitress comes to the table, you do the ordering in Thai.  I often do that with my wife.......never had a problem.

 

I'm nearing 70.....never have a problem in restaurants when alone, but when I'm with my wife, staff will tend to avoid me and check with my wife first.  I don't have a problem with that.  I do find it amusing that I generally pay the bill but the staff will almost always give my wife the change.  That's ok.....she needs the change at the market.

 

 

 

 

[mauGR1]

Nothing to do with Thai culture imo, but young people are not very interested in old people, everywhere.

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Nothing to do with Thai culture imo, but young people are not very interested in old people, everywhere.

Good point.

[phetphet]

I don't have a problem getting the menu. My girlfriend gets pi**ed off though, because they keep giving her the bill. 

I have told her I will eat in those restaurants again. ????

[mauGR1]

13 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

16 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Nothing to do with Thai culture imo, but young people are not very interested in old people, everywhere.

Good point.

Actually, in general, i find elders get more respect in Thailand than in Western countries, but your perception, which i agree with, must be a sign that the times ( and Thai culture ) are changing.

Still, as a kid, i was taught to respect the elders, and i taught the same to my kids, i think it's a good principle.

[Crossy]

Sorry, did someone speak??

 

[Lungstib]

Quite simply the number of retired, elderly Western men here increased hugely in those 30 years. You are now, by looks, included in that group who often dont speak Thai. 

[tgeezer]

Definitely changing attitude among the younger generation. They seldom dip their heads are often loud. I think that the Red Shirt business changed attitudes, very few people got ‘nailed’ ar the WTC.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[simon43]

The thing about speaking Thai is that maybe they don't expect you to be speaking Thai, and they try to figure out what English words you're saying.

 

Case in point today - I went to a new clinic to book an eye test.  The receptionist couldn't understand me at all!  I saw the optician, chatted in Thai to her and then went back to the receptionist who was now 'tuned in'  and was able to chat with me in fluent Thai ????

[Briggsy]

@Neeranam

 

I empathise.

 

Solutions

 

1. Prime your family to act in concert with your wishes and ability. It could be as simple as turning to you and saying to you in Thai, "what do you think". Or just an open hand gesture referring the question to you.

2. Upon being addressed in pidgin English, say in your best Thai, I'm sorry I don't understand, can you speak Slovak? Watch the wheels turn.

3. As above, but ask the pidgin speaker where he / she comes from and how long they have lived in Thailand. After receiving the reply, complement them on how good their Thai is.

4. Avoid mass tourism areas.

5. Be thankful you are not in China where people will just shout at you in Chinese for minutes irrespective of your language abilities. Think about it, Thailand could be a lot worse.

[CharlieH]

Honestly, I couldnt careless as long as I get what I want/need.

 

Wife gets most of the attention, she pays too, suits me fine ???? used to it now.

 

 

 

 

 

[tingtongtourist]

3 minutes ago, simon43 said:

The thing about speaking Thai is that maybe they don't expect you to be speaking Thai, and they try to figure out what English words you're saying.

 

Case in point today - I went to a new clinic to book an eye test.  The receptionist couldn't understand me at all!  I saw the optician, chatted in Thai to her and then went back to the receptionist who was now 'tuned in'  and was able to chat with me in fluent Thai ????

that "tuning in"  thing did happen to me all the time once.

the only way around it is just start babbling in Thai as soon as you approach or as soon as they see you.

I dont know why, but this way they will smile and talk normal Thai straight up.

 

But wait for them to talk first they will get nervous and freak out and some play that "pretend not to understand" game

which is strange because all the other Thais around can understand you and just repeat what you said in the same Thai words until that person "tunes in"

 

 

[marcusarelus]

Happens to me when I don't wear a shirt.  However, normally they speak to me and hand me the menu and hand me the bill and hand me the change. 

[CGW]

47 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Sorry, did someone speak??

I believe they did, no idea why? - just ignore them.......................

[Kwasaki]

Sounds like your going through a mid life crisis. ????

[JAFO]

17 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Honestly, I couldnt careless as long as I get what I want/need.

 

Wife gets most of the attention, she pays too, suits me fine ???? used to it now.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree. I do not even really make an effort to learn Thai anymore. Most the places I go most try and speak English. But culturally they always seem to give the menus to the woman as well as the bill. 

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, LomSak27 said:

Fun little Tale from Nakhon Nowhere.

 

The best western Thai speaker I ever ran into was a German woman who came here in the 1970’s, married a Thai Chinese. Lived up country when there were no expats, only the occasional CUSO and Peace Corps, that for two decades. BTW She speaks German, French, English, passable Dutch and excellent Thai. In fact, I have never met a westerner who speaks better Thai than her although I’m sure somewhere someone does.
 

The upshot of this, she would go to a local market and even though she would pud perfect passa Thai. As often as not the vendor would turn to her daughter who looks Thai and ask her. So the question is do they just not hear,  if it comes out of a farangs mouth? This women would say at least half the time, that is indeed the case.

 

So no worries relax, have a beer. That is just the way it’s going to be, might as well get used to it.

 

 

"...As often as not the vendor would turn to her daughter who looks Thai and ask her. ..."

 

I guess we've all experienced this. 

 

A few times when I've been with my Thai family and I've asked a question in Thai (pretty good Thai and many times Thai folks have said my oxien / pronunciation is good), and the waitress or shop assistant has immediately said to my adult Thai son "farang phut alai" (what did the farang say?). 

 

My son's polite response, in Thai  'ask him (pointing at me), he speaks Thai, he's speaking Thai to you now'.

 

Look of shock / confusion then occasionally the penny drops. 

 

When I first met my son's intended in laws (upcountry folks) at a nice air-con local restaurant, we all walked in and I quickly went to my son's gf's mother and father and in Thai politely asked if I could sit with them.

 

The mother was totally confused and terrified, the father understood instantly and took my hand and we sat together and had a great time, within perhaps an hour his wife relaxed and from there I ensured she felt part of the conversation all in Thai.

 

In total about 15 people sitting around a large round table including the son, a middle aged very loud over the top ladyboy who kept on trying to re-organze the table etc., and insisting that it's not possible for foreigners to speak thai and kept saying he would translate, problem being that he speaks about 5 words of English.

 

 

[Pilotman]

coffee shop, Big C, Home Pro or restaurant.  I tell my wife what I want, then go  and sit down with my KIndle or ipad and leave her to it.  I did the same for her for 20 odd years in the UK, now its her turn. I personally love not getting involved with the staff. 

[villagefarang]

There are two things a Thai can do to get on my good side.  First, speak to me like they would anyone else and second, be shocked when they discover my true age????, not what they initially thought, after talking for a while.  I don't appreciate the whole tourist treatment and fortunately I seldom encounter people like that.

[soalbundy]

Let them struggle with English, it can be funny. As I have had this 'problem' several times I have resorted to asking them if they can speak German, they say no, so then we resort to sign language, once the order has been settled I change my mind and give the new order in Thai, after the first shock of surprise they give you a dirty look but they always remember you and never try English again.

[Gecko123]

Elder respect is falling by the wayside in Thailand, and there's a very good reason why: urbanization.

 

Unlike in earlier times, when inter-generational family ties were strong, today they have completely broken down, especially in rural areas. Kids are routinely raised by relatives and in some cases non-family members, because parents have moved to urban areas for employment and simply don't have the time or the resources to care for their kids when they're putting in 12 hour shifts.

 

Although this trend started decades ago, the repercussions were initially hidden because the caregivers had the fortune of having been raised by their parents, and were better able to replicate a passable home environment. Nowadays, kids are often left in the care of caregivers who themselves were raised by caregivers who in turn were raised by caregivers other than their parents. So the mechanism for transmitting those family values isn't any longer in place.

 

Only occasionally do I see kids being taught to wai adults anymore. Yes, kids genuflect to their teachers and give them flowers on Teacher's Day, but it's largely perfunctory. In my village, there are plenty of elderly people, some with some family, others effectively on their own, who just hang on on a day-to-day basis, almost never receiving any special attention or care.

 

I'm sure this post will attract people claiming that respect for elders is very much a vibrant tradition in their communities, and I'm happy if this is truly the case, but sorry to say, I see little evidence that reverence for elders is still a core cultural value in Thailand.

[1FinickyOne]

Its not you... it is that there are a flood of farang now... they don't understand the culture, don't know how to order food and they think "same same" and 555 is speaking Thai... 

 

 

[BKKBike09]

1 hour ago, Lungstib said:

Quite simply the number of retired, elderly Western men here increased hugely in those 30 years. You are now, by looks, included in that group who often dont speak Thai. 

While I'm neither retired nor, ahem, 'elderly' (early 50s, own hair and teeth), you're spot on about the massive increase in the number of Westerners. Also Westerners speaking Thai. When I first came to live here in the late 80s it was quite rare to meet any farang who spoke Thai well. Now there are loads.
 

In any case, it doesn't matter how well you speak Thai because, to any Thai who doesn't know you, you're just some random old white guy. But I can take some small comfort from the fact that, years ago, I used to work with Peter Ungphakorn, one of Ajarn Puey Ungphakorn's sons. However Peter looked like a farang so despite being a son of a former Governor of the Bank of Thailand and Rector of Thammasat (shamefully hounded from Thailand after the events of 1976), he frequently got the "you, you!" treatment, and people telling him that he "phuut Thai keng" (of course he was native fluent). 

 

The only thing that is guaranteed to get my gander up is a waiter / waitress telling me to "ror sak khru" when whatever you've ordered hasn't materialised after 30 minutes. But I guess that's because I'm on my way to becoming 'elderly'.

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Happens to me when I don't wear a shirt.  However, normally they speak to me and hand me the menu and hand me the bill and hand me the change. 

I once met a girlfriend when I was drunk and had no shoes on. She never spoke to me again. 

[Date Masamune]

Happens all over the world, a form of racism. See in this tube that was shown at a training session at my company the waitress refuses to respond to “foreigners” speaking Japanese and instead talks to the Asian American woman who does not speak Japanese.

[OneMoreFarang]

Obviously I don't know the details of this situation. But I met lots of farangs who think their Thai is good but in reality their pronunciation is horrible. And obviously many Thais still tell them that their Thai language knowledge is wonderful so these guy never know that maybe their language skills are not as good as they think.

 

Recently I was on a table with one of those guys, a farang professor with horrible Thai pronunciation. We were in a 5-star hotel and he ordered something in Thai. The staff didn't understand him but they were too polite to tell him. So they asked in English. And he replied in Thai. The situation didn't get better. When the service girl walked away confused he complained that all Thais are stupid because they don't understand him...

 

Personally my Thai is 50/50 and I often end up talking with Thais in a mix of Thai and English. That works most of the time - at least for me and them.

 

[sanuk711]

4 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Have I become a grumpy looking old man that nobody wants to speak to?

I think you have put your finger on it here........................

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Gecko123 said:

Elder respect is falling by the wayside in Thailand, and there's a very good reason why: urbanization.

 

Unlike in earlier times, when inter-generational family ties were strong, today they have completely broken down, especially in rural areas. Kids are routinely raised by relatives and in some cases non-family members, because parents have moved to urban areas for employment and simply don't have the time or the resources to care for their kids when they're putting in 12 hour shifts.

 

Although this trend started decades ago, the repercussions were initially hidden because the caregivers had the fortune of having been raised by their parents, and were better able to replicate a passable home environment. Nowadays, kids are often left in the care of caregivers who themselves were raised by caregivers who in turn were raised by caregivers other than their parents. So the mechanism for transmitting those family values isn't any longer in place.

 

Only occasionally do I see kids being taught to wai adults anymore. Yes, kids genuflect to their teachers and give them flowers on Teacher's Day, but it's largely perfunctory. In my village, there are plenty of elderly people, some with some family, others effectively on their own, who just hang on on a day-to-day basis, almost never receiving any special attention or care.

 

I'm sure this post will attract people claiming that respect for elders is very much a vibrant tradition in their communities, and I'm happy if this is truly the case, but sorry to say, I see little evidence that reverence for elders is still a core cultural value in Thailand.

"Although this trend started decades ago, the repercussions were initially hidden because the caregivers had the fortune of having been raised by their parents, and were better able to replicate a passable home environment. Nowadays, kids are often left in the care of caregivers who themselves were raised by caregivers who in turn were raised by caregivers other than their parents. So the mechanism for transmitting those family values isn't any longer in place."

 

This exact subject has been researched continuously by the Sociology faculty at one of the two so called prestigious universities for many years.

 

Many of the faculty professors (all speak good English) shared the lunch room at my faculty and many times they gave me new reports to read (all in English).

 

As said above, one repeating point being that kids are growing up without direct influences by their actual parents and they in turn marry and have kids and they have no idea how to be a parent so kids go to grandma who is too old and often 'not my kids, not my problem' attitude, plus grandma can't help with homework etc., etc., etc.

 

The researchers regularly come across little kids and teenagers who will say things like 'yes I have a mother but I forget what she looks like', and more.

 

All of this is causing break down of family values and typical parental behaviors, and it breaks my heart.