"Farexit"........FarangExit.

[MyFriend You]

On 2/17/2019 at 7:26 PM, whitefarang said:

it is easy...without 800 k parked on a Thai bank , preferably mandatory 365 days a year  , people have no right to be here .  

I say "Out of Sight, Out of Mind"  once the 800K is in an account, "Fugetaboutit"  hassle free - its still your money, you can pull it out when you decide to leave, I dont see a problem.

[Lancelot01]

I feel sorry for the 70+ year olds who retired to Thailand with a 'frozen' pension 30 years ago.

When they arrived their pension would have been sufficient for their then lifestyle, however the vagaries of inflation and their currency weakness coupled with their frozen pensions has reduced but not stifled their spending capacity now.

Most of these retirees, with little by way of assets, cash or otherwise, just wish to see out their lives in peace and quiet.

The current amended immigration rules would mean that some of these pioneer retirees would not or not be able to qualify for for a retirement visa despite having Thai families and paid up properties.

If one's overheads i.e rent is covered, at the age of say 75 what more would you want?

[EVENKEEL]

On ‎2‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 9:46 PM, glegolo said:

You have a miljon others that is NOT americans or UK citizens or australians nor people from Denmark, the rest of us will use the monthly income letter many of us, any poll for us or doesn´t we exist in your world...

 

glegolo

You exist but don't count.????

[ThaiPauly]

20 hours ago, nickmondo said:

im not sure what luck has to do with having 800k that can be left in the bank here.

Frankly, if a person cannot find that sort of money to invest, then I have to ask what they are doing living in a foreign country anyway.

From an Englishmans point of view, having the 800k here, gives me more interest than back in the UK anyhow.

None of the changes are major in my opinion.

If you cant afford the required levels of funding, frankly, what are you doing here?

Misery loves company doesn't it?

 

Why would I want to leave 800k in a Thai bank earning 0.5% interest when I can earn 6% from it in an offshore bond.

 

If you are not clever enough to get your money out of the UK and offshore I feel sorry for you as you are losing a fortune. PM me for the details of the bank I use to organize this...oh wait a minute no need I can tell you, it's HSBC ever heard of them? They have a dedicated ex-pats division. Good luck

[luckyluke]

If an insurance is mandatory, pretty sure there will companies providing an insurance for a couple of thousand Thb.

You won't be insured for nothing ( in the small letter conditions), but T.I. will see an insurance policy and happy. I doubt they will take the time to read all the conditions. 

[ThaiPauly]

15 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Not yet. There are strong signals that it's coming for annual extensions. 

Where are these strong signals coming from Jingthing?

Will be a game changer for many of us who can't get cover for pre-existing conditions if it's true.

 

Many Insurance companies will not insure you over 75. Surley the powers that be would realize this?

 

I recently had a quote that only covered me for cancer , 5k English pa. So I have a lot of money put aside for health cover, but I am not going to waste it on insurance that I don't need.

 

I don't think I will stay if they bring it in, I can cope with most of the misery they pour down on us, but this would be one step beyond.

[Wake Up]

17 minutes ago, ThaiPauly said:

Misery loves company doesn't it?

 

Why would I want to leave 800k in a Thai bank earning 0.5% interest when I can earn 6% from it in an offshore bond.

 

If you are not clever enough to get your money out of the UK and offshore I feel sorry for you as you are losing a fortune. PM me for the details of the bank I use to organize this...oh wait a minute no need I can tell you, it's HSBC ever heard of them? They have a dedicated ex-pats division. Good luck

It is actually 1.5 to 1.8 percent if you leave the 800 k Thai baht in the account for a year. No investment in the world pays you 6 percent annually without substantial risk.

 

You are buying a high yield corporate or nation bond which is labeled a junk bond because you are willing to loan money to a company that is rated very low for a reason.  Or you are buying a risky REIT.

 

Otherwise the company would pay substantial less to borrow money. Don’t mislead people with your easy 6 percent yield per year. That does not exist in this world and has not for over 10 years. The thirty year treasury bond in USA yields 3 percent. To get double that yield you are in a risky investment. Don’t act like it is the same as a savings account or that the 6 percent is guaranteed. 

[ThaiPauly]

19 minutes ago, Wake Up said:

It is actually 1.5 to 1.8 percent if you leave the 800 k Thai baht in the account for a year. No investment in the world pays you 6 percent annually without substantial risk.

 

You are buying a high yield corporate or nation bond which is labeled a junk bond because you are willing to loan money to a company that is rated very low for a reason.  Or you are buying a risky REIT.

 

Otherwise the company would pay substantial less to borrow money. Don’t mislead people with your easy 6 percent yield per year. That does not exist in this world and has not for over 10 years. The thirty year treasury bond in USA yields 3 percent. To get double that yield you are in a risky investment. Don’t act like it is the same as a savings account or that the 6 percent is guaranteed. 

Simply not true, my bonds are not junk bonds and are with a reputable company, of course there is risk, I lost a lot in 2008 (as did everybody who had any money invested anywhere) but they have bounced back very well and have continued to perform, however I too have to get a visa one way or another and may have to accept having 800k tied up here, or switching to another visa which is more than likely.

Regarding the money earned in a Thai Bank account are you suggesting that immigration will accept funds that are sitting in high interest accounts instead of instant access savings accounts? The ones that pay 0.5%?

If this is true then it is good news and I have seen these rates advertised in my bank but how do you know that they can be used to obtain a visa?

[Vacuum]

19 hours ago, Thaidream said:

the Immigration process not only is confusing but different from region to region.

But, if you don't move around a lot, you'll learn the local Immigration rules.

[Vacuum]

1 hour ago, ThaiPauly said:

Why would I want to leave 800k in a Thai bank earning 0.5% interest

Actually you'll get minimum 1.5%.

[ThaiPauly]

Why is that?

 

They only give me 0.5% when I have more than 800k in there!!

[Andrew Dwyer]

Why is that?
 
They only give me 0.5% when I have more than 800k in there!!

0.5% in a savings account
1.5% in a fixed term account.
Bangkok Bank

[ThaiPauly]

9 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

0.5% in a savings account
1.5% in a fixed term account.
Bangkok Bank

I understand this, but will immigration accept money that is in a fixed term account Andrew?

[Andrew Dwyer]

I understand this, but will immigration accept money that is in a fixed term account Andrew?

Most immigration offices will I believe, if you can withdraw the money from the account instantly ( with a loss of interest obviously) then they should.
The only way is to ask at your IO, that’s what I am going to do.

[ThaiPauly]

59 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Most immigration offices will I believe, if you can withdraw the money from the account instantly ( with a loss of interest obviously) then they should.
The only way is to ask at your IO, that’s what I am going to do.

Please let us know when you find out Andrew, I have no reason to go to immigration for many months, maybe you are going sooner, or even someone else that reads this may know for sure?

[Mac98]

As Thailand doesn't want farang working here they should make retirement visas for those over 65 automatic with a confirmed address, but have those under 65 deposit 800 million baht a month. We don't need all these hippie hackers here feasting on women without even paying them. Good riddance to them! Hahahaha!!!

[Thaidream]

21 hours ago, Wake Up said:

Who retires without money saved and moves to a foreign country?  If you did then sorry for you but don’t blame others or the foreign country. Ask yourself why you spent all your money after you quit your job and why you failed to save money for retirement and why you left your nanny state. 

You are completely missing the point.  Those who  retired 10 years ago have a much lower base salary than those who retire today or those that will retire in another 10 or 20 years.

 

When I first started working  50 years ago my first salary was $7,000 per year and the US Dollar exchange rate was 20 Baht to  $1.   My salary was plenty to live well in Thailand while working.(US Company)

 

When I finally retired 5 years ago  I had worked long enough to have an excellent Social Security Income plus other pensions. However, 800K Baht to leave in a thai bank account for almost a year is not something I will ever do even though I could. I refuse to become part of a system  that refuses to recognize assets acquired in Thailand such as houses and cars or that refuses to recognize the salary of a working Thai wife. I have no problem with 65K a month  as called for in the Immigration Police Order.

 

Also, remember that until 1998 the amount needed for a retirement extension was 200K and some of these people are still here as they were grandfathered.

 

I am sure at some future point the amount needed could very will go over 1 Million Baht but don't forget these retirees will have started working  at a much higher base salary and those of us still here using the 800K  amount will  most likely be grandfathered.

 

The exchange rate is an unknown factor as well as the inflation rate.  I live comfortably  on less than 65K per month as I eat only Thai food and have a fully paid home and cars.  My biggest expense is getting my step daughter a university education.

 

The biggest problem people face when retiring is where they have worked and how long.  If you are in the 30s and working in Thailand for  wages below your skill level you are making a huge mistake because you are  not going to  survive in Thailand when you do fully retire unless you are a dollar/pound millionaire to start with. You may think you're living the dream but you are setting yourself up to live a nightmare.

 

The current situation regarding whether to stay or leave  for many is confusing and there is a complete lack of enough information to make an educated decisions.  As the months go on and the election results are known- many will be able to make the decision based upon their own desires and finances.

 

For many- who  have the financials- they do not like the direction of the country nor the  Immigration system in which  those of us who have been in the system for ages still are regarded as temporary visitors.  Many of us want reciprocity-  my wife  has a green card from the Us which allows  full benefits; ability to work; no visits to Immigration and any of the social services that Americans get.

 

It's time fore Thailand to enter the 21st Century instead of pursuing it's xenophobic agenda that treats foreigners as an interloper. 

 

 

 

[BritManToo]

6 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

You are completely missing the point.  Those who  retired 10 years ago have a much lower base salary than those who retire today or those that will retire in another 10 or 20 years.

I think not,

Wages and future pensions in the west are reducing and have been for the past 10 years.

Boomers (us in out 60s) can generally expect much higher retirement income than those before or after.

My friends in their 50s are expecting much less than I have.

My kids in their 30s will be lucky if they ever have a pension (state or private).

We are part of a privileged elite, that will probably never happen again.

Edited February 21, 2019 by BritManToo

[SheungWan]

7 hours ago, Lancelot01 said:

I feel sorry for the 70+ year olds who retired to Thailand with a 'frozen' pension 30 years ago.

When they arrived their pension would have been sufficient for their then lifestyle, however the vagaries of inflation and their currency weakness coupled with their frozen pensions has reduced but not stifled their spending capacity now.

Most of these retirees, with little by way of assets, cash or otherwise, just wish to see out their lives in peace and quiet.

The current amended immigration rules would mean that some of these pioneer retirees would not or not be able to qualify for for a retirement visa despite having Thai families and paid up properties.

If one's overheads i.e rent is covered, at the age of say 75 what more would you want?

Quite straightforward actually for these and other guys on the income margins which is to switch to using an agent if they want to stay.

[Date Masamune]

23 hours ago, Inuk said:

I happen to care about what happens to my wife and two boys after 15 years here, should I die. Intestate is not an option and the Thai will is in place. However we are talking about my hard earned savings and I am not a charity to the local government and never have been. I will ask the principle question AGAIN - where does it state in the Thai Immigration T&Cs of Extension of Stay, in the English language, that the total 800K deposit will be unfrozen and returned to the beneficiaries of my will automatically, without penalty, without any delay and without question? If this understanding is not in place, then all you 'holier than thou' goody two shoes are leaving yourselves wide open to abuse of your deposited funds.

What penalty? What delays?

Immigration has no access to accounts and never has or will. In your case in place your wife will have no problems as a Thai will is in place. Freezing of accounts has upon notification of death has nothing to do with immigration status. You have nothing to worry about. Most of the "dont trust Thai banks" brigade just actually cant stump up the 800 or are obsessed with barstool legends from people who have not worked since the 1970s.

[swissie]

23 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Not yet. There are strong signals that it's coming for annual extensions. 

More than likely.

One of my stepdaughters works in Hospital-Administration. According to her, Thai Hospitals are lobbying hard to impose mandatory health insurance for Farangs. (... too many hospital-bills remain unpaid by Farangs.)
I asked: What about Farangs being incorporated into the "Thai National Health Scheme"? She replied: "This was under some consideration during the former governement, but now not anymore".
- No wonder. How can someone be part of the "Thai National Health Scheme", when your visa says that you are a "NON-IMMIGRANT".

[swissie]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I think not,

Wages and future pensions in the west are reducing and have been for the past 10 years.

Boomers (us in out 60s) can generally expect much higher retirement income than those before or after.

My friends in their 50s are expecting much less than I have.

My kids in their 30s will be lucky if they ever have a pension (state or private).

We are part of a privileged elite, that will probably never happen again.

Indeed. Our generation was born into a unique "Time Window" in History. The ones before us had it bad, the ones after us will have it worse.

[Thaidream]

11 hours ago, swissie said:

More than likely.

One of my stepdaughters works in Hospital-Administration. According to her, Thai Hospitals are lobbying hard to impose mandatory health insurance for Farangs. (... too many hospital-bills remain unpaid by Farangs.)
I asked: What about Farangs being incorporated into the "Thai National Health Scheme"? She replied: "This was under some consideration during the former governement, but now not anymore".
- No wonder. How can someone be part of the "Thai National Health Scheme", when your visa says that you are a "NON-IMMIGRANT".

The problem with  medical care in Thailand is that it follows the for profit system that has destroyed American Healthcare.   

 

For Thailand to adopt mandatory Healthcare of  those retired or on maried extensions they will need to make sure it is availabe to everyone- that means any age; any medical condition and affordable.  If they can do this- everyone will be happy to join.  If you read the medical requirements for the O-X Visa there are policies available for those over Age 70 but they start at around 100,000 per year for  minimum coverage - simply money makers for insurance companies.

 

In addition, the medical insurance must be from a Thai Company- again another money maker for Thai Insurance Companies.

 

The best solution is to allow foreigners to become part of the Thai Social Security Scheme and pay into the system allowing full coverage and an infusion  of monies into the system/

 

In addition- a new category of extension needs to be put into place allowing a foreigner to apply for Permanent Residency whether they have work in Thailand or not and for those married to a Thai citizen for  several years.

 

An American married to a Thai citizen can oetition for residency for his Thai wife under a clause in the US Immigration act which allows the spouse to  get residence status as long as the spouse can support his wife and not become a ward of the State.  Almost every Western country has this provision. Instead, Thailand has  only a year by year extension policy- which encumbers the petitioner each year to prove the same status over and over again.  Long term expats need reciprocity and our Governments need to be telling the Thai Government the same.

 

 

[Leaver]

On 2/19/2019 at 10:52 PM, wgdanson said:

Hello Messrs White and Leaver. New to this game eh? 

I have every right to be here, 65k per month from my UK bank. No worries.

 

Or maybe you forgot to click the sarcasm emoji.

So, you think you have every right to be here.  ????

 

If you are not Thai, all you have is permission to be here, not a right.

 

That little piece of paper in your passport, which is called  visa,  grants that permission, and it can be revoked at any time, or the requirements to obtain it, changed.  

 

A long stay visa gives the holder no more rights here than a tourist on a 60 day visa.   

[Leaver]

On 2/21/2019 at 5:49 PM, ThaiPauly said:

Where are these strong signals coming from Jingthing?

Will be a game changer for many of us who can't get cover for pre-existing conditions if it's true.

 

Many Insurance companies will not insure you over 75. Surley the powers that be would realize this?

 

I recently had a quote that only covered me for cancer , 5k English pa. So I have a lot of money put aside for health cover, but I am not going to waste it on insurance that I don't need.

 

I don't think I will stay if they bring it in, I can cope with most of the misery they pour down on us, but this would be one step beyond.

A Thai Insurance Company could possibly step forward with a junk policy for farang that gives them a policy for visa purposes, but has so many things that the policy doesn't cover that it is useless.  

 

I expect Thai Companies will get on the farang visa gravy train, as the Thai government has. 

Edited February 24, 2019 by Leaver

[Leaver]

On 2/19/2019 at 10:43 PM, Andrew Dwyer said:

Or people make a trip back to their home country, get an O-A , good for two years, no insurance, no transfers, no deposit .
Seems like the best option to me .

I expect this will be the visa of choice for many now.  So how long before that visa tightens up?  After all, it doesn't capitalize Thai banks.

[Leaver]

On 2/20/2019 at 7:15 PM, Tony125 said:

You have no  idea what you are talking about.

1. You said a lot of embassies are no longer issuing letters----wrong. Only 4 embassies do not = USA, Britain, Australia and Denmark.   

2. You said there are cases of immigration not accepting 65,000 baht a month bank statements. That has only occurred when they have submitted it as proof of income and they have embassies that still issue the letters. If you are US, Aussie, Brit, or Danish you now have to use bank statements. If other nationality you still use a letter from your embassy.     

3. Neither the O visa or any other Thai Visa requires that you have health or life insurance to get.

You are correct, currently only 4 embassies not issuing letters, but there are a lot of expats from those 4 countries here.  How long before other embassies follow?

 

Read on the visa forum.  There are cases of statements showing the 65k deposits not being accepted.  

[Leaver]

On 2/20/2019 at 8:38 PM, jesimps said:

Being married to  a Thai I'll stay as long as my money's my own, even if it has to be seasoned. I will switch though to marriage visa. If they bring in compulsory medical insurance, I'l be off to PI probably.

How can you say your money is your own?  They tell you what you must do with your money, and the amount, and the duration of that amount, if you want a visa. 

 

You don't get to use your own money, as you see fit, without visa consequences. 

[Andrew Dwyer]

19 minutes ago, Leaver said:

I expect this will be the visa of choice for many now.  So how long before that visa tightens up?  After all, it doesn't capitalize Thai banks.

Yes, that could well happen.

Someone on here stated that Thai Embassy in France requires that for a second O-A visa the 800k has to be in a Thai bank .

[Leaver]

3 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Yes, that could well happen.

Someone on here stated that Thai Embassy in France requires that for a second O-A visa the 800k has to be in a Thai bank .

I would say they would have to tighten up this visa in the future.  People could have a trip home, see friends and family, maybe get a medical check up, grab a A-A visa, and come back.  They could possibly make it a yearly visit.  This is cheaper, safer, and easier, than the 800k in the bank.