UK's Labour says it will back call for second Brexit referendum

[Laughing Gravy]

1 minute ago, tebee said:

Otherwise you are asking for something that is impossible.

Finally you have admitted it. Don't make false statements that less people would vote for leave in the referendum, if their was another one. It is called lying.

[melvinmelvin]

6 minutes ago, tebee said:

How exactly do we prove it otherwise - ask each one of the 17.4 million individually ?

 

OK you start at John o'groats  and I'll start at land's End, we can meet  in 10 year time somewhere round Manchester to compare notes

Starting in John O'Groats would leave the islanders in the Orkneys and Shetlands out, not fair.

 

[evadgib]

Whoever follows us should look at the utter horlicks westminster has made of this and leave the EU on the first monday after their result is confirmed; neutering disgruntled losers and avoiding becoming a circus act.

[Grouse]

29 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

You've not broken a rule, but you have exposed yourself as just one more thick euro groveller.

I am merely informing you about the various amendments to be considered by parliament this week.

 

Does that make me thick?

 

Does that make me a "euro  groveller"?

 

I'll leave that for others to decide.

 

Meanwhile face a complaint for flaming and you are also added to my ignore list.

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

I think what you are trying to say is, let them keep voting untill I get the result that makes me happy.

Who is “I” and “me”?

[Kieran00001]

35 minutes ago, rixalex said:

 

 

 

I think more leave supporters were listening to Nigel Farage than to Remain supporter Cameron.  And what did Farage say?  Oh yeah, a 48/52 result would be unfinished business, and how right he was! 

[Nigel Garvie]

6 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Finally you have admitted it. Don't make false statements that less people would vote for leave in the referendum, if their was another one. It is called lying.

Please try to get a grip on some basic English. Saying that "less people would vote for leave in the referendum" is a contention, or if you like an assertion, or a submission, or an opinion. It can't be a lie, nobody knows, it hasn't happened yet. Opinion polls suggest that it is likely.

Is this clear?

The weatherman said it would rain next week; it's a forecast, if it doesn't rain next week he wasn't lying.

[nauseus]

19 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Complete tosh, the public found out the lies they had been told, that there was no money, that there will not be less immigrants, that it will not be easier for the Commonwealth countries to come, that we will not be better off, that we will not have the upperhand in the negotiation, that nothing was like they told them it would be, then the majority backed remain.  Anyway, if you accept that the majority are not happy to leave then why are you bleating about why they changed their mind and not just getting on with supporting their rightful choice to remain?

Tosh back. Lies told by both sides but the fact is that the majority voted to leave and remainers never accepted that. We don't have any real insight into the so-called "negotiations" but the only thing that seems clear about them now is that they have been ineffective from the UK side and dictated by the EU: Article 50 does not give the EU carte blanche to do this but May has allowed it to happen. May is a remainer and has ended up with this weak "deal" due to either her incompetence or collusion and I don't think she is completely thick! Just duplicitous and dishonest. This pathetic attempt at 'negotiation' has now brought about total disarray and frustration, which must be exactly what some parties want to give them a better chance of getting a referendum reversal.   

 

I only accept that the majority are still happy to leave. I see that the minority don't want to. Nothing has changed there. 

[Kieran00001]

19 minutes ago, nauseus said:

A majority vote was achieved via the referendum. It's your numbers that are confusing.

 

_{You're confused rather easily.}

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Who is “I” and “me”?

You havn't understood the concept of leave or remain yet, I don't want you to have too much to think about just yet.

[jvs]

I am not British but am from Europe and i am just wondering what would happen if a second vote was won by the leavers again?

Would it change anything?

 

[rixalex]

1 minute ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

I think more leave supporters were listening to Nigel Farage than to Remain supporter Cameron.  And what did Farage say?  Oh yeah, a 48/52 result would be unfinished business, and how right he was! 

Nigel Farage also said / says we will be better off outside the EU. I take it you believe him on that too.

[evadgib]

5 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

I think more leave supporters were listening to Nigel Farage than to Remain supporter Cameron.  And what did Farage say?  Oh yeah, a 48/52 result would be unfinished business, and how right he was! 

Cor that was original. Got any more?

[nauseus]

8 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Who is “I” and “me”?

 

[evadgib]

3 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

_{You're confused rather easily.}

Nah, That's Chomper! ????

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, jvs said:

I am not British but am from Europe and i am just wondering what would happen if a second vote was won by the leavers again?

Would it change anything?

 

Not at all. We'd still be suffering the same old whining.

[nauseus]

12 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I am merely informing you about the various amendments to be considered by parliament this week.

 

Does that make me thick?

 

Does that make me a "euro  groveller"?

 

I'll leave that for others to decide.

 

Meanwhile face a complaint for flaming and you are also added to my ignore list.

I think that you are a very informed groveller, Grouse.

[Kieran00001]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Tosh back. Lies told by both sides but the fact is that the majority voted to leave and remainers never accepted that. We don't have any real insight into the so-called "negotiations" but the only thing that seems clear about them now is that they have been ineffective from the UK side and dictated by the EU: Article 50 does not give the EU carte blanche to do this but May has allowed it to happen. May is a remainer and has ended up with this weak "deal" due to either her incompetence or collusion and I don't think she is completely thick! Just duplicitous and dishonest. This pathetic attempt at 'negotiation' has now brought about total disarray and frustration, which must be exactly what some parties want to give them a better chance of getting a referendum reversal.   

 

I only accept that the majority are still happy to leave. I see that the minority don't want to. Nothing has changed there. 

 

Tosh back?  That was the problem the first time.

 

What lies did remain tell?  We have quite a long list of lies from the Leave camp, I have not seen one for Remain, it would be interesting if you actually have some rather than just a weak claim.

 

Why do you "accept" something you have zero evidence to support?  The evidence shows us that the majority want to remain and that it has changed.  Just the 1 million young people that have come to voting age and the 1 million old people who have passed away are plenty enough to sway the result to remain, what tripe to suggest that nothing has changed when the demographics have changed by 2 million!

 

[Kieran00001]

4 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Cor that was original. Got any more?

 

Did you think your post of Cameron was "original"?  Get a grip on yourself.

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Another referendum would be greater democracy, there's nothing at all undemocratic in offering more democracy.

A ridiculous argument. You can have another one after the results of the first has been implemented. To keep voting until Remainers get the "correct" result is completely undemocratic and you know it.

 

 

[evadgib]

17 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I am merely informing you about the various amendments to be considered by parliament this week.

 

Does that make me thick?

 

Does that make me a "euro  groveller"?

 

I'll leave that for others to decide.

 

Meanwhile face a complaint for flaming and you are also added to my ignore list.

Further confirmation that you can't take what you regularly dish out. I have to say i'm surprised and a little disappointed as I had you down as a good egg in disguise.

[dunroaming]

This is Corbyn on the back foot.  He has been forced into this to try to stop more defectors from the party.  But it is a very risky move given that Labour voters make up a fairly large proportion of leave voters.

 

We are certainly drifting towards another peoples vote but it's outcome wouldn't be a done deal for remainers.  If the choice was no-deal, May's deal or no-Brexit then it could go any way, including to May's deal over the other options.  British people are resoundingly stubborn and don't take kindly to being told what to do.  So again there will be quite a few who would vote out of bloody mindedness. Some ill informed leavers would vote for no-deal, but most would choose from the other two options. Which would then mean voting to remain, giving (in many Brexiteer's heads), a victory for the EU.  Which would leave May's option.  Nothing in this mess can be taken for granted.

 

I still think a people's vote is not likely though.  I suspect a soft Brexit will be where we end up which will mean this has all been an expensive waste of time and Britain will be worse off for it.

[evadgib]

5 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Did you think your post of Cameron was "original"?  Get a grip on yourself.

Shouldn't that be aimed at the poster?

[Kieran00001]

30 minutes ago, rixalex said:

No money? That's a lie. There will be extra money. How much is the grey area.

 

Will not be less immigrants. That's a lie. How many immigrants there will be, will be up to the government post leaving the EU. If the government wants to close borders, it can. If the government wants to throw them open to all and sundry, it can do that too. There's nothing in the system that would prevent the government from controlling immigration down to the last person, if it wanted. It's a case of whether government wants to. Outside of the EU, it will be totally down to our politicians to decide. People can then vote at a general election on whether they agree.

 

will not be easier for the Commonwealth countries to come Again, a lie. See above.

 

we will not be better off Lie. We may be better off. We may be worse off. Nobody knows until we leave and times is given to reestablish trade agreements.

 

we will not have the upperhand in the negotiation We haven't had the upper hand that is true. Well done for getting something half right. Parliament has been a directionless shambles. That's why. Had we just announced that we were leaving on day one without a deal, and left it to the EU to come to us if they wanted to come to another arrangement, we would have had the upper hand and all this mess would have been avoided. We didn't do that, and so we are where we are.

 

then the majority backed remain What majority backed remain?

 

You're too much.

 

We know that it is going to cost more that it saves, therefore there is no money, deal with that very simple fact like an adult.

 

If there were going to be less immigrants they would have closed the borders pre-Brexit, that is what we learned, that the EU had nothing to do with the UK opening our borders, Thatcher had negotiated an exemption from free movement from the beginning and Blair chose to open them, so only a complete dreamer would imagine that suddenly we will be closing them just because you want them to.

 

There has been nothing preventing the government restricting EU immigrants and opening up to Commonwealth immigrants, except not wanting to, see above.

 

There is everything to suggest that we will be worse off, noticed all the countries biting our arm off for a trade agreement?  Noticed our currency surging?  Noticed jobs moving to the UK?  No?  Actually all the opposite, less trade deals, weaker currency and less jobs? 

 

You close with a "plan" which is to live in chaos with your only bargaining chip being living in hope that your neighbor doesn't want chaos next door, possibly the most ill thought out plan I have ever heard.

 

The majority is evidenced by every poll going, but live in your little fantasy land if you need to.

[evadgib]

10 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

This is Corbyn on the back foot.  He has been forced into this to try to stop more defectors from the party.  But it is a very risky move given that Labour voters make up a fairly large proportion of leave voters.

 

We are certainly drifting towards another peoples vote but it's outcome wouldn't be a done deal for remainers.  If the choice was no-deal, May's deal or no-Brexit then it could go any way, including to May's deal over the other options.  British people are resoundingly stubborn and don't take kindly to being told what to do.  So again there will be quite a few who would vote out of bloody mindedness. Some ill informed leavers would vote for no-deal, but most would choose from the other two options. Which would then mean voting to remain, giving (in many Brexiteer's heads), a victory for the EU.  Which would leave May's option.  Nothing in this mess can be taken for granted.

 

I still think a people's vote is not likely though.  I suspect a soft Brexit will be where we end up which will mean this has all been an expensive waste of time and Britain will be worse off for it.

Crowds the size of which haven't been seen since Diana died will almost certainly descend upon/blockade Parliament if those clowns don't buck their ideas up.

Edited February 26, 2019 by evadgib

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

This is Corbyn on the back foot.  He has been forced into this to try to stop more defectors from the party.  But it is a very risky move given that Labour voters make up a fairly large proportion of leave voters.

 

We are certainly drifting towards another peoples vote but it's outcome wouldn't be a done deal for remainers.  If the choice was no-deal, May's deal or no-Brexit then it could go any way, including to May's deal over the other options.  British people are resoundingly stubborn and don't take kindly to being told what to do.  So again there will be quite a few who would vote out of bloody mindedness. Some ill informed leavers would vote for no-deal, but most would choose from the other two options. Which would then mean voting to remain, giving (in many Brexiteer's heads), a victory for the EU.  Which would leave May's option.  Nothing in this mess can be taken for granted.

 

I still think a people's vote is not likely though.  I suspect a soft Brexit will be where we end up which will mean this has all been an expensive waste of time and Britain will be worse off for it.

No, the stay or leave question has already been answered , no need to ask again .

Hypothetically, if you was to be another referendum with the three different options as you suggested , the Leave contingent vote would be split into two , giving the remainers a win :

  26%  vote for Mays deal 

  26 % vote for no deal

   48 % vote to remain 

[nauseus]

Just now, Kieran00001 said:

 

Tosh back?  That was the problem the first time.

 

What lies did remain tell?  We have quite a long list of lies from the Leave camp, I have not seen one for Remain, it would be interesting if you actually have some rather than just a weak claim.

 

Why do you "accept" something you have zero evidence to support?  The evidence shows us that the majority want to remain and that it has changed.  Just the 1 million young people that have come to voting age and the 1 million old people who have passed away are plenty enough to sway the result to remain, what tripe to suggest that nothing has changed when the demographics have changed by 2 million!

 

Prime remain lies all under Project Fear: 

 

Tusk: "western political civilisation would be destroyed if the UK voted 'Leave'". 

 

Cameron: speech implied that "World War 3 would be upon us"!

 

Cameron: "immediate Brexit recession".

 

Clegg: no EU army planned! 

. 

Osborne: predicted tax rises and spending cuts. Households 4.3K worse off per family.

 

= = 

 

Now what evidence is there that there is a majority for remain? You assume that all young people want to stay in the EU don't you? Well, I'm happy to inform you that you are definitely wrong about that!  

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

No, the stay or leave question has already been answered , no need to ask again .

Hypothetically, if you was to be another referendum with the three different options as you suggested , the Leave contingent vote would be split into two , giving the remainers a win :

  26%  vote for Mays deal 

  26 % vote for no deal

   48 % vote to remain 

Hmm .. are they trying to cheat again?

[dunroaming]

4 minutes ago, sanemax said:

No, the stay or leave question has already been answered , no need to ask again .

Hypothetically, if you was to be another referendum with the three different options as you suggested , the Leave contingent vote would be split into two , giving the remainers a win :

  26%  vote for Mays deal 

  26 % vote for no deal

   48 % vote to remain 

What do you base that on?  Not a poll surely ???? or just in your head? 

 

I said very clearly that I didn't think there should be a second vote but if there was then I was musing at what the result could possibly be.  The original remain vote shouldn't be taken for granted in that the voters are still of the same mind given what has happened over the last two years.  Being bloody minded isn't just reserved for leavers.

 

Of course your guess is as good as mine but you seem to be presenting yours as facts.  However as a remain voter I will take your prediction, it will save me a lot of disruption and money!

[melvinmelvin]

37 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I am merely informing you about the various amendments to be considered by parliament this week.

 

Does that make me thick?

 

Does that make me a "euro  groveller"?

 

I'll leave that for others to decide.

 

Meanwhile face a complaint for flaming and you are also added to my ignore list.

in my view,

the most interesting line item in your post is Cooper and parliament taking control,

not necessarily in order to seek a prolongation. but to take control of the whole process

 

I have hoped for that long long time, but alas, the UK political system doesn't work that way,

or more correctly,  it doesn't work, it is incapable of handling the Brexit mess in a meaningful manner.

 

the other line items, may happen - may not happen, but nothing new and interesting,

they are kinda blah blah blah, heard it before heard it before heard it before

but for sure, definitely suited for ensuring late nights in Westminster zoo and Bercow with a worn down voice.