Expelled no questions asked at Don Muang

[Essecola]

I wish I never came to Thailand. Wish I never spent one baht here. Wish I never wasted a decade of my young years here. 

[JackThompson]

1 minute ago, Nyezhov said:

european or western country, not a violent third world sh**hole

You mean a country with actual "rule of law"?  Why are you comparing those to Thailand, given what happened to the OP of this thread? 

 

Mexico and the PI are more "rule of law" than Thailand, in the immigration department.  They have rules, and no problem if you obey them.  In the PI, "fixers" (agents) are prohibited.  In Mexico, no one needs one. 

 

In Thailand, it's how the IO "feels" at the moment that determines what the "rules" are, and corruption is rampant and bolstered by each rule-change.  Therefore, I find Somalia to be a good country to compare with, just in terms of immigration.  No "rule of law" with anything there.  The rest of Thailand is much better, of course, but this is an immigration thread.

[BertM]

4 minutes ago, Essecola said:

I wish I never came to Thailand. Wish I never spent one baht here. Wish I never wasted a decade of my young years here. 

Sorry you feel that way... Your life starts today, you can change tomorrow and enjoy what time you have left in this world. Remember, we can't change the past and we all have regrets. Best to move on from regrets so you can be happy tomorrow... Take care... Kindly...

Edited March 8, 2019 by BertM

[observer90210]

What is Big Joke doing with all his inefficient/corrupt officers in Dong Mueang and Co. that plainly expel foreigners for no reason ? This matter is outrageous and western media should be largely informed. I would definately spread it all over the western press and make sure it get's republished when high season starts.

 

 

Edited March 8, 2019 by observer90210

[Essecola]

4 minutes ago, BertM said:

Sorry you feel that way... Your life starts today, you can change tomorrow and enjoy what time you have left in this world. Remember, we can't change the past and we all have regrets. Best to move on from regrets so you can be happy tomorrow... Take care... Kindly...

Oh no sir. The hatred from this will take a very VERY long time to go away, if at all. I cant get ten years of wasted money back. Not even enjoying the time I am here now because of CONSTANT, DAILY, worry about the "VISA"

[DrJack54]

At first I had slight suspicion that this thread was a wind up. I was wrong. The op has been updating all along. So well done. Point of this post is to support some comments made by op. He referred to some countries with SET easy rules in place. Such as 90 days in 90 out or whatever. Could be something like max 180 days/yr  on tourist visas. I realize there is more to it than that when you consider ed visas etc. But seriously it isn't had to improve outcome. As for new extensions...that just makes it like keystone cops. 

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

3 hours ago, elviajero said:

Appropriate being a job, proven foreign income, certified cash in the bank.

If that were needed, the consulates would ask for it when one applies for a Tourist Visa, as they do for some other types. 

They don’t ask because TOURISTS ARE APPLYING FOR A SHORT TERM VISA TO VISIT FOR TOURISM.

 

Quote

Where is "appropriate" defined as you describe?  

It’s not. It’s whatever immigration consider appropriate. But its bleeding obvious given they they only give permission to stay long term to people that have proven a foreign income, certified cash in the bank, are working, or have bought their way in with an investment based visa.

 

“Appropriate” is specifically used in immigration law 12 (2), and is often written on the denial stamp.

 

Quote

How is "200K Baht worth of cash to spend" not "appropriate?" 

Because it’s not. They aren’t interested in the money as you are being denied due to spending too long as a tourist without having proven appropriate means of living, at the appropriate time, to the appropriate authority.

 

Quote

How would any person arriving with a Tourist Visa - 1st time or 50th time - (or ED, or Non-O) - possibly meet such a standard? 

A visitor for tourism wouldn’t have to because there is no standard to meet.

 

Quote

Before, the justification was, "20K isn't enough for the whole stay," hence the excuse of the 12.2 stamp. 

No. Only in the misinformed minds of people like you. 12 (9) is the reason used for not having 10/20K.

 

Quote

The OP had 200K, so that doesn't fit. 

And wasn’t — unlike another — denied under 12 (9). 

 

Quote

There was also the made-up 180-day rule, rationalized by tax-laws and/or old/defunct visa-exempt rules.  Now, the goalposts have moved again. 

Nope. The 180 days has been quoted at many borders for many years, it is clearly an official unpublished guide line for IO’s to use. Which is why the VE flag is set at 6 (6 x 30 = 180).

 

The evidence is all there. You just choose not to see it.

Edited March 8, 2019 by elviajero

[puukao]

5 minutes ago, Essecola said:

Oh no sir. The hatred from this will take a very VERY long time to go away, if at all. I cant get ten years of wasted money back. Not even enjoying the time I am here now because of CONSTANT, DAILY, worry about the "VISA"

The hatred will likely last 60-years, and all your money could have been put to a very good use in another country.  Plus peace-of-mind and then a better life in the future.  yes, you are super doomed.  worst life ever, worse than a kid working in a radioactive garbage dumb for 100 baht a week, or a girl in the bar who drinks 100 drinks an hour.....try to get very, very mad all day, all night.... but in 60-years it will be gone.  have a wonderful day!!!  

[Nyezhov]

8 minutes ago, Essecola said:

Oh no sir. The hatred from this will take a very VERY long time to go away, if at all. I cant get ten years of wasted money back. Not even enjoying the time I am here now because of CONSTANT, DAILY, worry about the "VISA"

well why are you whinging here?...get yourself a signboard and protest. Go down to the Government house and tell the bastids that RUINED your life exactly what you think of them! Don't hold back! Spew that rage, that hate...scream at them, tell them exactly why they suck! Damn, if you were in America, you could burn flags! Bet that would show them.

 

 

[maprao]

How are you posting if you are in detention?

Are you still in the airport?

[Essecola]

But my country is "for sharing". Ah but not here. Oh no. 1% of another people just spending their money is too uncomfortable. "This is ours" they say. But then when I "go back home" , I have to show my passport to an Asian when entering and I am a minority there too. The phrase "if you dont like it, go home" pops up often. So ok, where is my "home" then, where 99% of ppl look like me? Thai people can be in Thailand where it is 99% Thai. 

[elviajero]

16 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

What is Big Joke doing with all his inefficient/corrupt officers in Dong Mueang and Co. that plainly expel foreigners for no reason ? This matter is outrageous and western media should be largely informed. I would definately spread it all over the western press and make sure it get's republished when high season starts.

Can you explain how these corrupt officers denying entry to visitors like the OP are benefitting?

 

Great story for the “western press”; Thai border officers are really crap at the bribery part of corruption!

[JustAnotherHun]

19 minutes ago, Essecola said:

Oh no sir. The hatred from this will take a very VERY long time to go away, if at all. I cant get ten years of wasted money back. Not even enjoying the time I am here now because of CONSTANT, DAILY, worry about the "VISA"

If you wasted your lifetime and your money why did you stay in this country for ten years or so? If someone's not enjoying the place where he is living why not go elsewhere?

[elviajero]

3 minutes ago, maprao said:

How are you posting if you are in detention?

Are you still in the airport?

It’s not a jail, but more of a holding area.

[observer90210]

1 minute ago, elviajero said:

Can you explain how these corrupt officers denying entry to visitors like the OP are benefitting?

 

Great story for the “western press”; Thai border officers are really crap at the bribery part of corruption!

so expelling somebody on the "insufficient funds" basis is normal, despite the fact that the person has sufficient funds ?

Ok sorry, I missed something here.

 

And sorry, you are so correct. There is ZERO corruption in Thailand and the Thai Police are the most honest police force in the world, I appologize for my mistake and totally wrong post and wish you a nice evening. Case closed for me.

[Essecola]

1 minute ago, JustAnotherHun said:

If you wasted your lifetime and your money why did you stay in this country for ten years or so? If someone's not enjoying the place where he is living why not go elsewhere?

Where do I go? It is not Cambodia, Vietnam, or Philippines. So where then? Can I have a refund for my wasted money and young years here?

[maprao]

8 minutes ago, elviajero said:

It’s not a jail, but more of a holding area.

Thanks for that confusing this with IDC.

 

[JustAnotherHun]

9 minutes ago, Essecola said:

Where do I go? It is not Cambodia, Vietnam, or Philippines. So where then? Can I have a refund for my wasted money and young years here?

How exactly did you waste your money here? Building houses in the outback? Paying the medical treatment for sick buffalos? or was it just for your daily living?

Malaysia seems not so bad but more expensive

Edited March 8, 2019 by JustAnotherHun

[JackThompson]

36 minutes ago, elviajero said:

They don’t ask because TOURISTS ARE APPLYING FOR A SHORT TERM VISA TO VISIT FOR TOURISM. 

Same as the OP - 60 days max given on-entry.  Previous time here is not relevant.

 

Quote

It’s not. It’s whatever immigration consider appropriate. But its bleeding obvious given they they only give permission to stay long term to people that have proven a foreign income, certified cash in the bank, are working, or have bought their way in with an investment based visa.

That is to be allowed to stay continuously - not paying for trips out and back, with separate vetting for new Tourist Visas each time.  To the extent Tourist Visa screening is insufficient, that is an issue they can take up with the MFA and/or the consulates in question.

 

Quote

 

“Appropriate” is specifically used in immigration law 12 (2), and is often written on the denial stamp.

The Thai version of "appropriate" in this context certainly doesn't mean, "money to spend in cash isn't good enough."  The OP had enough for 60-days plus, even at the excessive "retirement income" level.

 

Quote

Because it’s not. They aren’t interested in the money as you are being denied due to spending too long as a tourist without having proven appropriate means of living, at the appropriate time, to the appropriate authority.

You are adding more things to it.  It just says appropriate - doesn't say, "Cannot show anything on arrival," or "We can just pretend you don't have the money without even asking," which is what happened here.
 

Quote

A visitor for tourism wouldn’t have to because there is no standard to meet.

Then the OP is in.

Quote

No. Only in the misinformed minds of people like you. 12 (9) is the reason used for not having 10/20K.

Quote

And wasn’t — unlike another — denied under 12 (9). 

I am aware of 12 (9) - but when the 12 (2) denials initially surfaced (when people had the cash to show), the excuse was, "Well,  20K is not enough for their entire stay."  The OP had enough for his entire stay, and not "waiving a bank-book" (argument it could be fake) - but in cold hard cash.  

 

In reality, 12 (2) would be for cases where they had the 20K Baht, but other evidence existed indicating they could not support their stay - i.e. "Would run out of money within 60 days." 

 

Quote

Nope. The 180 days has been quoted at many borders for many years, it is clearly an official unpublished guide line for IO’s to use. Which is why the VE flag is set at 6 (6 x 30 = 180).

 

The evidence is all there. You just choose not to see it.

The VE flag is not annual - it is cumulative since they first started counting years ago, so not evidence of any annual limit.  In addition, each of those entries can be extended by 30-days, totaling 360 days.  I don't see any connection to that.

 

I do not recall a "180-day rule" being cited except at Poipet and the problem-airports.  And at the airports, they have been reported counting back well over a year, in order to get over 180-days. 

 

Maybe the rule is, "180-days ever in Thailand" ?  Unless that is the case, it doesn't apply to the OP, since he was gone 2 years before his recent stays since last October - only 150 days, if early-October.

 

Clearly they are just making stuff up.  Otherwise, they would publish guidelines for Tourist Visa use, even if they were not hard-limits, so that a "safe no-hassle limit" would be known, and could be adhered to.  It appears their agenda won't work with a "known safe visiting period," as that would take the fear out of the experience of entering Thailand - and fear is the best way to drive the farangs out for good.

Edited March 8, 2019 by JackThompson

[Caldera]

20 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Can you explain how these corrupt officers denying entry to visitors like the OP are benefitting?

Easy, they might simply get a share of the outrageous 800 baht detention "hostel" fee. I don't know any other country that charges a fee for being involuntarily detained at an airport, that in itself is a scandal.

[atyclb]

7 hours ago, Tayaout said:

Nope but they include a meal and charge 840 baht per day. 

 

Now I just landed in Laos and seems to have been put me and the batch of expelled in some transit zone. They are questioning the other people's and will post when I know what this is all about. 

 

if you stay in detention say 12 hours or more does that 840 include more than one meal?  is there a shower?

 

wonder if the detention fee cash i presume is their new cash cow?

[JackThompson]

12 minutes ago, Caldera said:

Easy, they might simply get a share of the outrageous 800 baht detention "hostel" fee. I don't know any other country that charges a fee for being involuntarily detained at an airport, that in itself is a scandal.

There is that.  But I would bet the elite-beneficiaries are chipping into a "crackdown fund."  They know they are selling a ridiculously-priced product (over 10x the annual visa-cost of other countries in the region, and 5 years up front) - so how else to get people to buy it?  Only extreme measures could possibly work.   And if they drive out 99 to get 1 sale - who cares about the 99?  They were just supporting "ordinary Thais" with their spending - and those "little people" don't count.

 

Then consider if people like the OP go to ED - that's 9K to 15K Baht in "extra fees" (bribes paid through the schools above and beyond the actual extension-fees) for the extensions for a year. 

 

And for the older snowbirds, agent-fees for retirees are going up, and a snowbird has no reason - for a 6-mo stay - to keep 800K here and unable to touch it for 5 months (400K of it permanently) or to transfer 65K/mo even in months they are not even in Thailand.  So, hassling them - as being reported now - should also lead to a percentage paying immigration off via their agent-partners.  Of course, the majority will never come again - but that only hurts those "little people" who don't count. 

 

The "problem" with Tourist Visas, is there is no corruption-angle for immigration to milk. 

Edited March 8, 2019 by JackThompson

[Felt 35]

14 hours ago, vinniekintana said:

never FLY into Thailand

???? Something for TAT

[NanLaew]

8 hours ago, BritTim said:

They cannot do that. "Wrong visa" is not one of the listed reasons in Section 12 of the Immigration Act for denying entry. Nor will you find anything there about the immigration official being empowered to decide if a visa has been improperly issued to someone who should not qualify.

Correct. The 'insufficient funds' is the easiest one to enforce, especially in this case where they apparently made a point of not asking for proof of funds, ie. the immigration didn't ask, ergo he didn't see it, ergo it didn't exist.

[ThomasThBKK]

48 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

There is that.  But I would bet the elite-beneficiaries are chipping into a "crackdown fund."  They know they are selling a ridiculously-priced product (over 10x the annual visa-cost of other countries in the region, and 5 years up front) - so how else to get people to buy it?  Only extreme measures could possibly work.   And if they drive out 99 to get 1 sale - who cares about the 99?  They were just supporting "ordinary Thais" with their spending - and those "little people" don't count.

 

Then consider if people like the OP go to ED - that's 9K to 15K Baht in "extra fees" (bribes paid through the schools above and beyond the actual extension-fees) for the extensions for a year. 

 

 

You can't compare the elite visa like that, its special....

 

You can maybe compare it to the golden visa in portugal and spain which coasts 350000/500000 EUR, the Investment Visa in the USA for 1 mio USD, the hungary and bulgaria investment visas for 1 mio EUR...

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/countries-where-you-can-buy-citizenship-residency-or-passport-2018-9

 

 

it's listed there for a reason and cannot be compared to others like NON-O visa or retirement where u need to qualify actually.

[yuiop]

So, to sum it up for the new comers:

someone with a tourist visa and 200K baht (yes, no typo) cash on him gets rejected on entry because, according to the IO, he doesn't have enough money to support himself during his 60 days stay.

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, observer90210 said:

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

Can you explain how these corrupt officers denying entry to visitors like the OP are benefitting?

 

Great story for the “western press”; Thai border officers are really crap at the bribery part of corruption!

so expelling somebody on the "insufficient funds" basis is normal, despite the fact that the person has sufficient funds ?

Ok sorry, I missed something here.

Yes you did. They weren’t denied for “insufficient funds”.

 

And you haven’t explained the corruption the OP is victim of.

 

1 hour ago, observer90210 said:

 And sorry, you are so correct. There is ZERO corruption in Thailand and the Thai Police are the most honest police force in the world, I appologize for my mistake and totally wrong post and wish you a nice evening. Case closed for me. 

Sorry, but again you’re wrong. There is loads of corruption in Thailand including in immigration and the Thai police.

 

You claimed corruption at the airport. Explain what that corruption is.

[Essecola]

Dont try your luck at the airport. Odd thing to say about travelling. Its not like the good old days when coming and going was easy peasy. 

[anon7854]

14 hours ago, Tayaout said:

When I go to Europe they tell me it's 90 days in and 90 days out and the rules never change. I went to Vientiane to get an official visa because I expected that they may deny me a visa free entry. I did not expect to be denied by trying to get an official visa. 

You obviously fail to realise that if you get a visa from a Thai embassy in your country it will not mean you will get unconditional access to Thailand. In fact , the officer at immigration can void your visa you received on the spot.  Ask people that have valid US tourist visas when they get turned back at the customs because the officer was retarded and didn't understood well that attending a conference is not equal to working in US.  It's nothing new really. There are a lot of stupid people at the immigration. If they were smart , they would have gotten better jobs than looking at faces and id's every day.

Edited March 8, 2019 by anon7854

[jimn]

2 hours ago, Essecola said:

But my country is "for sharing". Ah but not here. Oh no. 1% of another people just spending their money is too uncomfortable. "This is ours" they say. But then when I "go back home" , I have to show my passport to an Asian when entering and I am a minority there too. The phrase "if you dont like it, go home" pops up often. So ok, where is my "home" then, where 99% of ppl look like me? Thai people can be in Thailand where it is 99% Thai. 

Sounds like you are a little bit racist. How do you know the "Asian" you show your passport too, is not born in and is a citizen of that country. I assume like me you are from the UK? One more thing, enlighten us, what is the Visa you are so worried about?