17 hours ago, uhuh said:

Much simpler than this: familiarity breeds contempt. 

Westerners are nothing special anymore. 

As soon as Thais are familiar with Westerners they behave just as ugly and brutal as they behave between themselves. No more smile and gone are the niceties.

Pattaya is the real Thailand. Here Thais drop the mask and show their real personality.  Not a nice sight. 

Pattaya attracts get rich quick schemers from all over Thailand and from around the world. Not really a reflection of real Thailand.

7 minutes ago, JTXR said:

Good post.  One of the reasons I stay in BKK is that the TM-30 nonsense doesn't apply here (so far, at least).  I too would find that very close to a deal breaker.

 

As for moving back to the U.S., if I did it (I'm close to 70), I'd definitely rent.  Screw the hassle of owning.  Because health insurance at my age is a problem, the one thing that would certainly make me repatriate is a serious health issue.  Access to Medicare would outweigh almost all other economic considerations.

I'm in myh 70's too.  The top 3 leading causes of death in America are Heart disease, cancer and hospital error.  https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html

 

I have insurance that covers heart disease and staying in Thailand should cover me on hospital error.  So if I don't get cancer that's not covered by my Thai insurance I'll stay in Thailand. 

 

I'd never own if I moved back to the USA.  I'd find the best VA hospital and rent close to there. 

4 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

Pattaya attracts get rich quick schemers from all over Thailand and from around the world. Not really a reflection of real Thailand.

I believe most of the boiler rooms were in Bangkok.  Pattaya is just good food, guitars tuned good and firm feeling women.  

44 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

drinking crap beer like leo

Whoa! Time out, big guy. Stopped drinking a few years back, but Leo was my favorite beer.

23 hours ago, newnative said:

     Great post and I totally agree with everything you said.  The OP might be far happier in a city like Pattaya with people from everywhere.  I started in Rayong and always felt like the local Thais were staring at me--usually I was the only farang at Home Pro or Index.  When my partner and I moved to Pattaya suddenly I was no longer a curiosity.  Lots of support services, great hospitals, wide range of condos to either rent or buy, restaurants galore, great shopping choices, movies, recreation...  Maybe give it some consideration.

...i find as i get older i forget to zip up my fly sometimes..maybe that's why i get stares occasionally.

7 hours ago, swissie said:

A life in isolation. But that's OK. We all came here for the temples in the first place only. Low cost of living as a deciding factor?

You would not be the only one, as I gather.

Isolation? What ever are you talking about?

 

 

7 hours ago, rumak said:

of course learning to say turn left, turn right, and for many here ...turn over.... are vital in conversations with taxi drivers and thermae ladies

Havent met a taxi driver who doesnt react to a point and a here, and the girls learn "turn over" in Bar Girl school.

 

I admit that it would be easier for me to learn terms like "bark like a dog" and...never mind

56 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I have more freedom than you.  Because no one tracks my movements and the government is far less obtrusive or harmful than America who tried to kill me numerous times (got drafted) and taxed me till i bled. 

Thirty years ago I used to travel to Thailand and return to the States.  No, not every month, but a few times over a few years.   More than once I was pulled aside and taken to a room.  Everything searched and aggressive questions about how I could afford to travel and WHY I wanted to go to Thailand.  I had no criminal record,  had worked and saved ( which i told them), but they treated me like a criminal , with no respect.  And this was before the NSA !    I have NEVER been treated as badly in my 30 years here.  In fact, it has been fairly easy to navigate the occasional changes in policy.  And the thai police, for all the bashing they get, somehow seem to be quite nice to me.   The only scowls I see are when I venture into Chiangmai and come across an angry Farang.  I am sure that has something to do with why Thai people who live in areas where there are Farangs might not be totally enamored with us.   Yes, its not all Farangs.  But when talking about some bad experiences in Thailand, it is certainly not ALL thais either.

1 hour ago, Gecko123 said:

If there's one thing which has unleashed a willingness to voice criticism towards Thailand it would be the sense that I'm being judged, looked down upon, treated like I don't measure up, or can't be trusted, in a word, being made to feel inferior. That's an all to familiar feeling from back in the States, and when I'm treated like that, you're gonna get pushback. You're gonna hear 'You think you're better than me, what about this, what about that?' defensive type comments.

Hmmmm......these are "feelings," are they not?  Feelings are highly subjective, particularly in a foreign culture.  Your own feelings about what others are thinking or what they actually feel about you may be completely detached from reality.  The thing is, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.  If you think someone doesn't like/respect you, you will treat them accordingly...which results in them having negative feelings toward you.  

 

It sounds like you're getting these negative vibes from one or two person that you know well....true?  I mean, how can you possibly know that large numbers of strangers "judge you, look down on you, don't trust you"....etc.  If you were a black man in the deep south USA in the 60's, I may get it.  But Thailand? 

 

    

37 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Havent met a taxi driver who doesnt react to a point and a here, and the girls learn "turn over" in Bar Girl school.

 

I admit that it would be easier for me to learn terms like "bark like a dog" and...never mind

be careful saying thai word for bark.   your sweetheart just might think you are accusing her of having head lice !  

Thais have eyes on us 24/7/365....THey are nice until the sin sod or whatever payment arrangement you have made for whatever it is...after that, better hope for someone just likes you for you!  Otherwise, "its" get the heck out of my country until you have more Baht to bring in.  Sadly!

14 minutes ago, mike787 said:

Thais have eyes on us 24/7/365....THey are nice until the sin sod or whatever payment arrangement you have made for whatever it is...after that, better hope for someone just likes you for you!  Otherwise, "its" get the heck out of my country until you have more Baht to bring in.  Sadly!

Most I know got the sin sod back. 

11 hours ago, mania said:

The new requirement to leave money year round in account while a denial of use to owner in a sense is after all an enforced nest egg that surely could be used

by the owner in a dire need case

Yeah all of your post outline things very well.

 

The new retirement requirements I have no problem with I would add Thailand looks on single retiree's as sometimes being a burden when they get older the 400,000 requirement is a forced insurance brought about by as you say people not taking proper care of themselves.

 

I have had 400,000 in bank all year round for marriage for years not necessary but that's the way I like it as well as health insurance, I am not in a financial position anymore to self insure, too many sick cows. ????

 

IMO Thailand can deal about tourist having accidents by creating a Thai travel insurance available at entry if they don't have any.

20 minutes ago, mike787 said:

Thais have eyes on us 24/7/365....THey are nice until the sin sod or whatever payment arrangement you have made for whatever it is...after that, better hope for someone just likes you for you!  Otherwise, "its" get the heck out of my country until you have more Baht to bring in.  Sadly!

That is a ridiculous thing to say, are you a bad person. ????

26 minutes ago, mike787 said:

Thais have eyes on us 24/7/365....THey are nice until the sin sod or whatever payment arrangement you have made for whatever it is...after that, better hope for someone just likes you for you!  Otherwise, "its" get the heck out of my country until you have more Baht to bring in.  Sadly!

I don't doubt that these are the sort of Thais that you've chosen to surround yourself with.  Fortunately, the Thais that I know are nothing like that.  My condolences to you and your life.   

12 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Yeah all of your post outline things very well.

 

The new retirement requirements I have no problem with I would add Thailand looks on single retiree's as sometimes being a burden when they get older the 400,000 requirement is a forced insurance brought about by as you say people not taking proper care of themselves.

 

I have had 400,000 in bank all year round for marriage for years not necessary but that's the way I like it as well as health insurance, I am not in a financial position anymore to self insure, too many sick cows. ????

 

IMO Thailand can deal about tourist having accidents by creating a Thai travel insurance available at entry if they don't have any.

How do you propose Thailand deals with long term tourists,  commonly self referred to as expats,  who don't have insurance? 

Are you saying tourist should forced to buy insurance but that somehow expats are special? 

In my view the number of uninsured tourist Vs the risk they take is very low compared to the aging expat population who are very likely to need some form of treatment. 

33 minutes ago, mike787 said:

Thais have eyes on us 24/7/365....THey are nice until the sin sod or whatever payment arrangement you have made for whatever it is...after that, better hope for someone just likes you for you!  Otherwise, "its" get the heck out of my country until you have more Baht to bring in.  Sadly!

Not sure who the "us" is but if you are referring to the sad souls hanging out all day in beer bars in Pattaya...... It's not only the Thais that have eyes on them. I see them and feel sad..... Others may feel disgusted. 

Thailand is changing, the whole world is changing, people get old, and it's not always easy to find something to be happy about.

Also, with age we tend to be more selective with company, and being lonely may trigger too much thinking.

 

I think it was Socrates who said that we have a choice between being a happy pig, or a sad philosopher, or something in the middle.

I found out that tending a garden, and do something nice with your hands can help a lot.

33 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I found out that tending a garden, and do something nice with your hands can help a lot.

can relate to do something nice with my hands,

the garden thing was a bit too cryptic

1 hour ago, Berkshire said:

Hmmmm......these are "feelings," are they not?  Feelings are highly subjective, particularly in a foreign culture.  Your own feelings about what others are thinking or what they actually feel about you may be completely detached from reality.  The thing is, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.  If you think someone doesn't like/respect you, you will treat them accordingly...which results in them having negative feelings toward you.  

 

It sounds like you're getting these negative vibes from one or two person that you know well....true?  I mean, how can you possibly know that large numbers of strangers "judge you, look down on you, don't trust you"....etc.  If you were a black man in the deep south USA in the 60's, I may get it.  But Thailand? 

 

    

Berkshire, you and I go way back. Can you give me a little credit here? I bend over backwards in terms of making allowances for cultural differences and considering if I or the person I was dealing with was just having a bad day.

 

My OP may have left people with the idea that my impressions were based solely on how people look at me. Actually, the word 'eyed' was chosen more to describe how immigration is "eyeing" expats from a multitude of directions (finances, residency, insurance). My comments about how people in general are acting are based on my overall interactions with many people, and how I have observed they have changed over time.

 

You have to admit there are an unusual number of people reporting these days that they feel the general attitude towards foreigners has shifted. They don't seem to be people with an agenda or fall into the category of "the usual suspects." I realize that there are those who are eager to dismiss all this as TVF-induced mass hysteria.

 

But I don't think that there's any question that the junta's attitude towards foreigners, the prominent attention given in the media to misdeeds of foreigners and immigration's roundups and arrests, the hollowing out of economic benefit to average Joe Thais from foreigners, the maturation of Thailand's reputation as a good place for foreign men to find a wife, growing class resentment (some of which is channeled towards foreigners) and just tourism fatigue have all contributed to a generally less-welcoming ambiance in Thailand.

 

3 minutes ago, brokenbone said:

can relate to do something nice with my hands,

the garden thing was a bit too cryptic

Why cryptic, i see it as a perfect way to spend a couple of hours a day.

..It involves creativity, physical work, and, in the same time, it allows you to think about something else.

Of course, any other hobby can be just as good, whatever makes you happy.

can relate to do something nice with my hands,
the garden thing was a bit too cryptic

Trimming a lady's bush.

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Yeah all of your post outline things very well.
 
The new retirement requirements I have no problem with I would add Thailand looks on single retiree's as sometimes being a burden when they get older the 400,000 requirement is a forced insurance brought about by as you say people not taking proper care of themselves.
 
I have had 400,000 in bank all year round for marriage for years not necessary but that's the way I like it as well as health insurance, I am not in a financial position anymore to self insure, too many sick cows. [emoji16]
 
IMO Thailand can deal about tourist having accidents by creating a Thai travel insurance available at entry if they don't have any.

Yeah great. Need to spend one baht of that 400k baht for a medical crisis and your legality here becomes instantly in question. Not cool.

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Trimming a lady's bush.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Do you have a work permit for gardening?

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

37 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

Berkshire, you and I go way back. Can you give me a little credit here? I bend over backwards in terms of making allowances for cultural differences and considering if I or the person I was dealing with was just having a bad day.

 

My OP may have left people with the idea that my impressions were based solely on how people look at me. Actually, the word 'eyed' was chosen more to describe how immigration is "eyeing" expats from a multitude of directions (finances, residency, insurance). My comments about how people in general are acting are based on my overall interactions with many people, and how I have observed they have changed over time.

 

You have to admit there are an unusual number of people reporting these days that they feel the general attitude towards foreigners has shifted. They don't seem to be people with an agenda or fall into the category of "the usual suspects." I realize that there are those who are eager to dismiss all this as TVF-induced mass hysteria.

 

But I don't think that there's any question that the junta's attitude towards foreigners, the prominent attention given in the media to misdeeds of foreigners and immigration's roundups and arrests, the hollowing out of economic benefit to average Joe Thais from foreigners, the maturation of Thailand's reputation as a good place for foreign men to find a wife, growing class resentment (some of which is channeled towards foreigners) and just tourism fatigue have all contributed to a generally less-welcoming ambiance in Thailand.

 

Duly noted.  And you're right, we do go way back.  My apologies if my comments sound like advice given to a newbie.  Was not my intention. 

1 hour ago, emptypockets said:

How do you propose Thailand deals with long term tourists,  commonly self referred to as expats,  who don't have insurance? 

Are you saying tourist should forced to buy insurance but that somehow expats are special? 

In my view the number of uninsured tourist Vs the risk they take is very low compared to the aging expat population who are very likely to need some form of treatment. 

Don't see what your asking of me and not sure what you mean by long term tourist, thought I'd explained my position.

In any event people should be responsible when travelling or staying, if not I guess they should be forced to.

35 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

You have to admit there are an unusual number of people reporting these days that they feel the general attitude towards foreigners has shifted. They don't seem to be people with an agenda or fall into the category of "the usual suspects." I realize that there are those who are eager to dismiss all this as TVF-induced mass hysteria.

 

But I don't think that there's any question that the junta's attitude towards foreigners, the prominent attention given in the media to misdeeds of foreigners and immigration's roundups and arrests, the hollowing out of economic benefit to average Joe Thais from foreigners, the maturation of Thailand's reputation as a good place for foreign men to find a wife, growing class resentment (some of which is channeled towards foreigners) and just tourism fatigue have all contributed to a generally less-welcoming ambiance in Thailand.

 

Any long term usual suspects have been hitting us with alternative places to live for 10 years.  The negativity is boundless and continual.  One can only take a certain amount of depressed talk before you become depressed yourself.  A couple of times in 20 years long term expats have had changes in visas and this one was brought about by 4 lazy embassies. 

 

This is an election year as we have not had one in a long time.  People in power want to stay in power and the best way to do that is create a bogey man.  Same thing Trump is doing in America and Brexit is doing in the UK. 

 

Some people are well informed enough to realize what is going on others have become reactive to the baloney being pitched. 

 

I had a child who when a young was afraid of her shadow. 

 

The pound crashed re the baht and someone had to be blamed besides the UK - Now it's Thailand's turn in the barrel. 

51 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah great. Need to spend one baht of that 400k baht for a medical crisis and your legality here becomes instantly in question. Not cool.

Don't get me wrong I have had trouble at times getting the 400,000 together to show for 2 months in bank.

I don't have any choice if I want to remain in Thailand.

I hear some people don't have show money and can stay for 1 year but have to do every 90 days a border crossing. 

Don't know how that's done probably just hearsay.

20 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

21 hours ago, atyclb said:

true but likely the us mil industrial complex made billions also on it and was it done to support us military bases in thailand?  

We were talking about Thai people not the military industrial complex.  There were a million Americans here and the Thais didn't much care for them.  This xenophobia is nothing new was my point. 

 

Yours is another story.  Did Thailand profit from the American military alliance?  It made Thailand the tiger of Asia and elevated it above all of its neighbors and gave it a head start that will never be erased.  

 

The American military industrial complex in Thailand built infrastructure and trained Thai workers and funded the Thai government for 10 years.  They left in 1975 and left it all behind. 

 

xenophobia is an unknown and unappreciated concept in some countries including thailand. cannot expect the whole world to be pc

 

thailands allowing usa to use it as a base during viet war served us interests well and thailand benefitted also.  think amity treaty is still in effect that supposedly gives us citizens some business advantage.

21 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

We were talking about Thai people not the military industrial complex.  There were a million Americans here and the Thais didn't much care for them.  This xenophobia is nothing new was my point. 

 

Yours is another story.  Did Thailand profit from the American military alliance?  It made Thailand the tiger of Asia and elevated it above all of its neighbors and gave it a head start that will never be erased.  

 

The American military industrial complex in Thailand built infrastructure and trained Thai workers and funded the Thai government for 10 years.  They left in 1975 and left it all behind. 

Thailand profited immensely for the Vietnam War.  It certainly made Thailand the Tiger of South East Asia for long after the war finished.

 

However, I 100% disagree that this head start will never be erased.

 

Thailand is stuck in its old ways, and still can't get out of first gear.  Meanwhile, Thailand's competitors are in overdrive, progressing forward.  Vietnam, in particular, is progressing very quickly.  If you look at the progress Vietnam has made since the devastating war, you would see it makes Thailand look like it's standing still.  

 

An example is, look at the politics here.  Mr. T, in, then out, then in, then out, then his sister, then a coup, and no democracy for years.  Thailand lacks genuine leadership, and direction.

 

In my opinion, Thailand has been resting on its laurels, whilst its competitors are catching up quickly, and I would not be surprised if Thailand is overtaken somewhere between 5 to 10 years in the future.