After 11 years in Chiang Mai, I was Denied Entry

[Vacuum]

2 hours ago, Formaleins said:

What exactly was the education course that you were studying that took 7 years to complete?

'Exploring Thailand'

 

[sweatalot]

4 hours ago, JackThompson said:

The key to understanding what is "really happening," is not to listen to their lies, but watch what their hands are doing - stuffing the loot into their pockets.

how will money come to their pockets if they deny entry to foreigners?

[NoshowJones]

11 hours ago, ThaiBunny said:

"i had to renew the visa every three months or something ridiculous so i just stopped doing it" - pretty much sums it up.  If you want to go somewhere, stick to their rules

Your last sentence, not necessary, you might not agree with certain rules and be able to find a way round them.

[elviajero]

9 hours ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

Source of the actual MFA announcement? Source or it's just hearsay.

See attached.

[Felt 35]

1 hour ago, Thingamabob said:

Just follow the rules, or go somewhere else

 Yes follow rules not followed by they who make them...... Tv is now and then actually entertainment ????

[dcnx]

1 hour ago, chrisc38 said:

For the record i'm not a digital nomad never worked a day the whole time i've been there, I stay in Thailand for the booze the girls and the temples *sic. I agree, i milked the system for a long damn time, i'm not bitter about the whole thing, just thought i'd share my experience. Could i get Elite Visa? sure, could i do other visas, sure, no problem, just never did because what i was doing really did work well for me. I don't see why i should have got a visa when clearly i never needed one for past few years. I expected this to eventually happen, my only mistake here I think was i thought there was a fly thru to buriram but there wasn't so i had to go through the general immigration line where the damn supervisor is buzzing around hoping to catch me.

What i was doing was actually more expensive than ED visas 11,400 for extensions a year and 6-8 flights out a year + hotels etc, do the math.

As for speaking Thai, actually I think it worked well cause that ugly short Tom got out of my face before i could say something i would later regret. Believe me she isn't the decision maker there.

I could speak Thai before i finished high school so please don't question my ability, and yeah some of your translations for the only Thai words i wrote in my piece show your inability not mine.

As for paying for the flight out, right, air asia could have paid it, but they could have made me wait in the detention center while they "found me a flight out", for $70 and you know you gonna have to go anyway why be an idiot for? You the cheap one not me, and if you leave it up to them they would send me back to HCMC where i'd have to get a express visa which costs a few hundred, honestly the people who suggested this i hope they follow their own advice.

I didn't argue anything i just asked a few questions, gave up cause it was obvious didn't matter what i said, how much money i have, I was getting denied. If you want to be the dumb guy who kneels down and takes it in the mouth that might be you, certainly ain't me, i know full well if i'm denied entry i can still get in another way. People who say this probably work for someone and are used to being pushed around, good for you, if you were in my shoes you would have signed the paper! lulz

If i had shown attitude i'm sure they would have put me in the hole and not let me walk out that easy.

So now I'm swimming in my 4 star resort pool drinking dollar beers and a bevvy of cambo/viet girls waiting on my new passport, somehow damaged my last one (saves you $100).

So yeah I don't really care if you think I'm breaking the law or not, 11 years mate that's a long time you can't do that buy being an idiot and throwing your money around like a moron, I had a real long run, probably more than most people here were able to get away with as well.

I'll be back from my extended holiday soon. can count on that.

You are everything 95% of the posters here which they could be. Hence the push back. Good job mate! 

 

 

[elviajero]

10 hours ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

The same system that alerts on 6 VE entries does not alert on 3 SETVs or 1 METV, so I doubt it was set in place to prevent tourists from staying longer than 180 days a year. More likely it is there so long term tourists have to get tourist visas and prove they have means to support themselves, which does make sense.

It clearly isn’t to prevent tourists staying longer than 180 days. If they wanted to do that they would pass another regulation limiting the time to 180 days. That is unlikely to happen — until/if their system is able to keep count — as it caused too many problems when they tried that before when IO’s had to make a manual count.

 

As I said it’s s guide to alert IO’s for them to them use their discretion to decide whether or not to allow entry.

[chrisc38]

14 minutes ago, elviajero said:

See attached.

cool so it took them 5 years to say enforce this on me, i did pretty good right? Most people i know working illegally either have an actual visa (cause they can't border hop they working!) or they are on overstay or came in illegally. They really didn't think about this did they, What i was doing 99.9% of people with a job can't do.

[bwpage3]

7 hours ago, balo said:

Maybe his old aunt was rich and he inherited some money to live on ? 

 

There are many reasons why people don't have to work.  

Thailand should not deny people who are not stealing jobs from Thais. 

 

Maybe his Aunt wasn't rich and he is trying to get around the rules?

 

11 years in Thailand, in his 30's with no job?

 

That mean's he came to Thailand in his 20's not enough years of work to save anything?

 

I think being in Thailand for 11 years and getting around the system for 7 years using ED Visa's he knows the rules the same as everyone else.

 

Surely if he had money, he would have already had an Elite Visa.

 

Probably working on-line and doesn't want to state that

[mickymouse1]

If I were you, I would have insisted on the presence of an official from your Australian Embassy or a lawyer, Believe me they would have let you in and say do not come again for few months, this is the last time.????you were very cool coping with such BS

[totally thaied up]

6 hours ago, Kelsall said:

Time for all of us to wake up and smell the coffee.  We go by their rules, both written and unwritten, and they are changing and enforcement is changing. 

 

We are no longer God's gift to the Thai economy or to Thai women.

At Chiang Mai departing on Wednesday, for about a two hour period, I was the only farang in our departure area. About 10,000 Chinese graced the lounge. If the Chinese stopped coming, I could see a massive glut or hit to the tourism sector.

 

 

[beautifulthailand99]

 

 

1

9 hours ago, Misty said:

OP says he's been living in Thailand for 11 years, so if he was earning money, he would be earning it here in Thailand - not abroad.  Or did I miss something.

The assumption I was making is he is doing internet work for a foreign company and getting his money sent to Thailand. He isn't taking bread out of Khun Somchai's mouth but increasing the economic benefit to the Kingdom.  

[ubonjoe]

40 minutes ago, elviajero said:

See attached.

 

Something from almost 5 years ago that means nothing now.

That was more for border runners getting visa exempt entries at land borders and had nothing to do with tourist visa entries.

I can remember it being discussed then. Just old history IMO. 

[chrisc38]

32 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

Maybe his Aunt wasn't rich and he is trying to get around the rules?

 

11 years in Thailand, in his 30's with no job?

 

That mean's he came to Thailand in his 20's not enough years of work to save anything?

 

I think being in Thailand for 11 years and getting around the system for 7 years using ED Visa's he knows the rules the same as everyone else.

 

Surely if he had money, he would have already had an Elite Visa.

 

Probably working on-line and doesn't want to state that

If you must know i got lucky in the IT boom before i moved and got lucky again with bitcoin. I also got lucky doing this for so many years, an elite visa would have been a waste of money to do before this, don't know why ya'll keep suggesting i should have done something different, obviously what i've done the past 11 years has worked, time for the next thing, not a big deal, but i wouldn't have done anything different. The four hours i had to endure at don muang airport sure beats wasting 300,000 baht which i would have wasted had I bought and elite visa 3 years ago. If i had followed the advice given here i'd have a lot less bitcoin than i do now. 

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, Just Weird said:

If you say so.  But you'll find that their powers are not as black or white as you seem to think they are.

 

Hence the 2nd paragraph, immediately after the one you quoted:

4 hours ago, JackThompson said:

That said, the IOs at lawless entry-point are not law-abiding, so that may not do you any good.  As a practical matter, one can only avoid those bad points of entry. 

Since there is no supervisory chain active to prevent their law-breaking, they can break the laws with impunity.  

The only reason the majority of entry-points are still lawful, is that the IOs who run them are honest, decent people, who respect their oath to uphold the laws of the country.

[ubonjoe]

Some inflammatory posts and replies to them have been removed.

No further notice of posts being removed will be given.

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, Number 6 said:

So while no detention, they may well turn you away and you don't want to be in rural Myanmar or Cambodia perhaps if you get turned out.

Myanmar - Thailand won't let you leave unless they will let you back in.

Cambodia - much better transport-options and plenty of places to stay all over now.

 

3 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

Just follow the rules, or go somewhere else.

He was.  Or do you know of a rule we are not aware of?

 

3 hours ago, Thaidream said:

It's obvious if one is under 50 and staying in Thailand on  exempt entry or Tourist Visa- they are looking carefully at you.

Over 50s too - even part-time snowbirds now, at Bangkok airports. 

They are missing agent-money if you aren't on retirement, and snowbirds are even less likely to want to lock up money here, or send "monthly foreign-payments," so more likely will need to use an agent if they want to spend their 4 to 6 mo here per-year.

 

3 hours ago, Misty said:

Overall, have to agree with many here: assuming OP is independently wealthy, why not just get an Elite Visa?

2 hours ago, joecoolfrog said:

As you have pots of money why not get the 5 year elite visa , no hassles then.

 

For 10x the cost of visas for a year in several neighboring countries, and 5 years all up front?

Because it is a total rip-off, and one could have a lot of fun with that much money, vs burning it on a temporary-stay visa?

Edited March 22, 2019 by JackThompson

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, StevieAus said:

Also Thailand is not the only country that scrutinizes tourists and refuses entry if the IO believes the tourist is not genuine. 

I know that it happens in both the UK and Australia. 

When my wife visited Australia for the first time ...

 

... I got a reply from a senior person in Immigration quoting various policies and practices but virtually stating that it is the role of the IO’ s to satisfy themselves that the tourist is genuine and is going to satisfy the terms of the visa.

So it seems it’s the role of the IO the world over.

First, the AU has high wages, and is thus a magnet for travelers planning to work illegally there - hence the nature of the questions your wife was given.

 

Second, the laws in AU allow IOs this power, as you were informed. 

Thai laws specifically Do Not give IOs that power - likely because of the potential for abuse.  Unfortunately, the law is not being enforced, so they are abusing that power, exactly as those who wrote the law feared they would.

 

3 hours ago, StevieAus said:

... she was able to remain in Aus, gained residency citizenship and a passport

This is the third reason they are more strict.  That will NEVER happen to a foreigner in Thailand, unless they go through a very difficult process, including taking a Thai's job from him/her for 3 years just to apply - and continuing work until granted citizenship.  Even PR is similarly difficult here. 

 

In essence, Thailand has nothing to lose and everything to gain by letting us stay here and spend our foreign-sourced revenues in their country.  Only corruption money and/or xenophobia explain what this clique of IOs is doing.

 

2 hours ago, gamini said:

Most countries have a limit on tourist visas and only allowed to stay 180 days. It's the same in Australia and New Zealand all and a lot of other countries. People seem to think that Thailand should be different

See the above.  Thailand IS different than those, for several reasons.

 

3 hours ago, bander said:

Basically it means if you have money invested in Thailand and/or proof of supporting a thai GF and her family all is good.

Unfortunately, immigration make it extra-difficult to get an extension for marriage to a Thai.  Retirement is easier, though more expensive in terms of locked-up money or mo-transfer amounts.

Edited March 22, 2019 by JackThompson

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, chrisc38 said:

What i was doing was actually more expensive than ED visas 11,400 for extensions a year and 6-8 flights out a year + hotels etc, do the math.

Yes - rejecting serial tourists for "not having enough money" is a huge joke, considering the cost of staying this way.  I know, because I used to do it.

 

2 hours ago, chrisc38 said:

As for paying for the flight out, right, air asia could have paid it, but they could have made me wait in the detention center while they "found me a flight out", for $70 and you know you gonna have to go anyway why be an idiot for? You the cheap one not me, and if you leave it up to them they would send me back to HCMC where i'd have to get a express visa which costs a few hundred, honestly the people who suggested this i hope they follow their own advice.

If everyone refused to pay the airlines, it is possible there would be pressure for immigration to quit doing this.  As-is, the airlines are selling double-priced tickets to the victims - profiting heavily from this racket. 

 

I would not be surprised to find out there is a kickback scheme - perhaps the Air Asia guy gets a commission he shares with immigration?

 

But, unless most were to do this, you'd just be pawn-sacrifice martyr, and it would have no effect.  I don't fault you for that move.  

[ParadiseLost]

21 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

For 10x the cost of visas for a year in several neighboring countries, and 5 years all up front?

Because it is a total rip-off, and one could have a lot of fun with that much money, vs burning it on a temporary-stay visa?

Well at least we now know the extent of your wealth... ????

[ParadiseLost]

13 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

In essence, Thailand has nothing to lose and everything to gain by letting us stay here and spend our foreign-sourced revenues in their country.  Only corruption money and/or xenophobia explain what this clique of IOs is doing. 

Try dealing with Australian Immigration.

 

I know of no country (in which I would like to live) that allows this, maybe you will get away with one or two years but then you will be flagged.

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, sweatalot said:

how will money come to their pockets if they deny entry to foreigners?

Start with - there is no money to be made for immigration "on the side" from Tourist entries.  But, there is a lot of potential loot to be made from:

• Selling 'elite' visas
• Agent-racket money for married/retirement extensions
• School-racket money for ED extensions
• Airline kickbacks for filling up planes with unwilling customers at 2x prices
• Selling Detention spaces

Ocam's Razor.

Edited March 22, 2019 by JackThompson

[Thailand Outcast]

7 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Yes - rejecting serial tourists for "not having enough money" is a huge joke, considering the cost of staying this way.  I know, because I used to do it.

 

If everyone refused to pay the airlines, it is possible there would be pressure for immigration to quit doing this.  As-is, the airlines are selling double-priced tickets to the victims - profiting heavily from this racket. 

 

I would not be surprised to find out there is a kickback scheme - perhaps the Air Asia guy gets a commission he shares with immigration?

 

But, unless most were to do this, you'd just be pawn-sacrifice martyr, and it would have no effect.  I don't fault you for that move.  

With the airport boarders being deemed as "bad boarders" by foreigners, and the cost of the tickets if your are denied, and some conjecture about which country you must be returned to if denied entry, will obviously create a huge increase in land boarder crossings. 

 

Entering by land still does not 100% guarantee entry, but at least you can walk back to where you came from. 

 

In the near future, I think we will see long queue at land boarders, with many missing there land transport connections to where they want to go. 

 

It's going to get messy.

[JackThompson]

15 minutes ago, ParadiseLost said:

Try dealing with Australian Immigration.

See my post above:

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1090832-after-11-years-in-chiang-mai-i-was-denied-entry/?do=findComment&comment=13966068

... apples and rocks comparison.

 

15 minutes ago, ParadiseLost said:

I know of no country (in which I would like to live) that allows this, maybe you will get away with one or two years but then you will be flagged.

The OP did 11 years.  If he had stuck to law-abiding entry points, this would not have happened.

I suppose, as long as you add "in which I would like to live" to the equation, then say all the other countries around the world which welcome us are in the "not want to live" category, that rationale works.  In terms of countries with wage-levels similar to Thailand, "welcome back" is the rule, not the exception.

[alex8912]

12 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Always a mistake, never speak to IOs or other government officials in Thai, they don't like it.

Happy and a bit stupid is the way to go.

Did you miss the part about him  having 7 years with student visa?  They would probably speak to him in Thai to prove he DID go to school. Reports of that often after just one year of Ed visa. Your theory that you like to spew is incorrect a lot. 

[BritManToo]

19 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

Did you miss the part about him  having 7 years with student visa?  They would probably speak to him in Thai to prove he DID go to school. Reports of that often after just one year of Ed visa. Your theory that you like to spew is incorrect a lot. 

What makes you think he was learning Thai?

Could have been learning boxing, Buddhism, Chinese, massage, cookery or several other things.

If he were learning boxing, would you expect immigration to have a fight with him?

 

I'm prepared to listen to all sorts of apologist theories about why he wasn't allowed in, but answer me this, why did they write in his passport he was refused entry for 'not having enough money to support himself' when he had a wallet load of cash on him?

Edited March 22, 2019 by BritManToo

[alex8912]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

What makes you think he was learning Thai?

Could have been learning boxing, Buddhism, Chinese or several other things.

If he were learning boxing, would you expect immigration to have a fight with him?

 

But answer me this, why did they write in his passport he was refused entry for 'not having enough money to support himself' when he had a wallet load of cash on him?

He is FLUENT in Thai. Did he buy the new embedded in your head chip to speak it? So for common sense you get an F. On your other post ( again you seem to post a lot but don’t comprehend well) that is the reason stamped into most refusals. Ask Ubon Joe. They don’t even want to SEE or have you show cash!  Even if you have 200k on you like others have reported. They DO NOT give you the opportunity to show cash , they just stamp the same reason again and again. They are extremely rude as well.

[BritManToo]

59 minutes ago, ParadiseLost said:

Well at least we now know the extent of your wealth... ????

Wealthy people are the tightest <deleted> in the world.

You don't get wealthy or stay wealthy by throwing money away.

Not that the truly wealthy would ever spend much time (if any) in Thailand.

 

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, alex8912 said:

He is FLUENT in Thai. Did he buy the new embedded in your head chip to speak it? So for common sense you get an F.

I know loads of guys who had an Ed VISA for learning Thai, none of them ended up speaking a word of Thai.

They didn't want to learn Thai they only wanted the VISA, the teachers didn't even attempt to teach Thai in those classes.

[alex8912]

7 hours ago, Just Weird said:

What a joke, no wonder legitimate foreigners have difficulty sometimes due to people like the OP!...

 

"I have lived in Chiang Mai Thailand for 11 years..."

"I then switched to an education Visa which I did for 7 years

"i had to renew the visa every three months or something ridiculous..." 

"A short annoying tomboy officer..."

"I ask her what act i'm actually in violation of as I can't find that in the immigration act....Ok, but you are enforcing it you can't tell me what's the number so i can look it up".

"I say i can enter the country 30 days without a visa what's the problem?"

"...their is nothing to say that i can't come in an out of the country many times..."

"righteo whatever dude, here's the money go get the tickets".

"Me and my mate just laugh"

"I wish I had opened my passport in the office i would have thrown my money on his desk, and told him he could keep it as he looks like he needs it more than i do".

 

Well, you really don't have an attitude problem, do you? 

You also do not know much about the authority that the IOs have when faced with situations that you presented!

 

Seems he did just fine for ELEVEN YEARS!!! 

WHO has the attitude prob on this forum lol ??