Need visa advice, before eligibility for retirement visa

[OtinPattaya]

I'd was wondering if I could some advise on the best visa strategy for my situation. Thanks in Advance!

 

I will be retiring to Pattaya perhaps as soon as July of 2019, and will be turning 50 years of age on January 13th of 2020, at which time I'll be eligible for a retirement visa. I'm confused as to what I should in the roughly 6 months before I turn 50 in Thailand, as far as visas go. I've thought about trying to get an education visa (6-month, I believe) as I genuinely would attend the classes and would like to learn Thai. So perhaps that's a possibility. Any potential issues with this? 

 

What would be the standard procedure for these 6 months? I assume I would need to make visa runs. 

[ThaiBunny]

Multiple Entry Tourist Visa (METV) will last six months and you can in fact stay almost 9 months if you get your timings right. You'll need to make one exit and one re-entry. You have to apply in your home country and show funds of 200,000 baht equivalent

Edited April 4, 2019 by ThaiBunny

[OtinPattaya]

Thanks for the reply. I am looking into the METV. 

 

Basically what is referred to as a "retirement visa" is simply a non-immigrant O visa with an annual extension based on retirement, correct? I've heard that you must apply for the non-immigrant o (or A, or O-A?) from your own country. Does that mean that I would need to fly all the way back to America in order to apply for the O-A? I really hope not. I read somewhere you could apply for a 90-day O visa from, say, Laos, and then apply for the annual extension based on retirement? I'm trying to make sense out of this. 

Edited April 4, 2019 by OtinPattaya

[ubonjoe]

You could enter on a tourist visa and apply for a change of visa status to get a 90 day non immigrant visa (category O) entry at a immigration office on you 50th birthday based upon qualifying for a extension of stay based upon retirement.

To apply for the change you would need 800k baht in a Thai bank on the date you apply or proof of 65k baht income or a combination of the 2 toalaling 800k baht.

Then during the last 30 days of the 90 day entry from the visa you could apply for the one year extension. The money would need to be in the bank for 2 months on the date you apply.

[lamyai3]

If you have no history of tourist visas you should be fine for the six months from July this year by getting either an METV or SETV in the US (with the latter you get 60 days plus 30 days extension, and can then repeat with another SETV obtained in a regional country). 

[scubascuba3]

Easiest and cheapest option is METV assuming you can get it, depends how strict your consulate is

[OtinPattaya]

Thanks for all replies! How hard are the non-immigrant O visas to obtain? Are they getting any stricter with these of late? Can they be obtained from within Thailand? 

[allane]

Yes. See Post # 4 above. Inside Thailand, it is called an "O" Visa. Outside of Thailand, it is an "O-A" Visa.

[Tanoshi]

18 minutes ago, allane said:

Yes. See Post # 4 above. Inside Thailand, it is called an "O" Visa. Outside of Thailand, it is an "O-A" Visa.

The Non O and Non O-A are as different as chalk and cheese.

A Non O, is a Non O, inside or outside of Thailand.

A Non 0-A can only be obtained in a Country you have permanent residency status.

The OP cannot obtain either as he is under 50 years of age.

[allane]

Which both he, and Poster # 4 are aware of.

[jacko45k]

30 minutes ago, allane said:

Yes. See Post # 4 above. Inside Thailand, it is called an "O" Visa. Outside of Thailand, it is an "O-A" Visa.

They are the same type wherever they are. The extensions A , M and X are special categories for the Non-Imm-O allowing longer stays in Thailand and/or multiple entry. 

Edited April 7, 2019 by jacko45k

[Tanoshi]

4 hours ago, OtinPattaya said:

Thanks for all replies! How hard are the non-immigrant O visas to obtain? Are they getting any stricter with these of late? Can they be obtained from within Thailand? 

Once 50 years of age, you can apply at your local Immigration office to 'convert' your Tourist Visa or Visa exempt entry to a Non Imm O as a prelude to obtaining an extension based on retirement.

The procedure and requirement are here:

https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_80

[EricTh]

6 hours ago, OtinPattaya said:

Thanks for all replies! How hard are the non-immigrant O visas to obtain? Are they getting any stricter with these of late? Can they be obtained from within Thailand? 

Yes, it's getting stricter than  previous years.

 

However, if you can maintain 800k Baht in a Thai bank every year, you're safe.

 

Cost of living in Thailand is going up every year.

[JackThompson]

On 4/5/2019 at 7:13 AM, ubonjoe said:

To apply for the change you would need 800k baht in a Thai bank on the date you apply or proof of 65k baht income or a combination of the 2 toalaling 800k baht.

He's coming to Pattaya, so the Jomtien office will require his 800K be seasoned in the bank 2 months before applying for the Non-O stamp - and the use of income for this with that desk seems to vary over time.  With 800K in the bank 2 mo before applying for the Non-O - should be able to get it, with a few visits for "extra things" requested.

 

2 hours ago, EricTh said:

Yes, it's getting stricter than  previous years.

 

However, if you can maintain 800k Baht in a Thai bank every year, you're safe.

 

Cost of living in Thailand is going up every year.

But the condo-rental prices in that area are going down, so there is that offset to the "higher price of chicken."

[Jingthing]

But the condo-rental prices in that area are going down, so there is that offset to the "higher price of chicken."

Seasoning isn't required for the conversion step. It is for the extension step. For the conversion step using 800k the money must be shown to have been imported from abroad though.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[JackThompson]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Seasoning isn't required for the conversion step. It is for the extension step. For the conversion step using 800k the money must be shown to have been imported from abroad though.

By the published rules, this is correct.  The information desk in Jomtien will even give you an official document stating this (official document number, etc). 

But then, when you apply at the proper desk, the officer there will inform you about their own "special" rules - even providing a home-brew printout to some (I got one) which only somewhat tallies with the official document - and requires seasoned funds.  When I tried to get one there, no income option was permitted; they used to accept embassy letters with an MFA seal, but stopped just before I applied.  Since that time, they may be accepting income again. 

 

All I can say to anyone going for a Non-O stamp in Jomtien is "good luck" - unless paying 25K to an agent for the process - which should include a retirement-stamp - though this "package price" for both parts may have gone up after the recent policy-changes.

 

I still see occasional reports from some offices where IOs tell them the Non-O stamp option does not exist at all - even when presented with the official-document showing the requirements.

[OtinPattaya]

The 800K in a Thai bank shouldn't be  a problem for me. I can let that sit and season indefinitely if need be. My main concern is whether, once I'm in Thailand, the non-immigrant O visa will prove difficult to obtain, since this visa seems to be reserved for applicants who plan to do volunteer work in some official capacity or have Thai family in the Kingdom. 

 

There seem to be many westerners who have gotten non-O visas, regardless of the intent of this visa, who have subsequently used them as a valid basis for a retirement extension. But Thailand has been plugging up so many loopholes of late, I'm wondering if the non-O is now one of them or will soon become one. Thanks!

Edited April 7, 2019 by OtinPattaya

[OtinPattaya]

For a non-O are the immigration officers going to ask me for some proof of volunteer work or Thai family residing in the Kingdom? Are westerners still routinely being granted non-O visas without such proof?

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, OtinPattaya said:

The 800K in a Thai bank shouldn't be  a problem for me. My main concern is whether, once I'm in Thailand, the non-immigrant O visa will prove difficult to obtain, since this visa seems to be reserved for applicants who plan to do volunteer work in some official capacity or have Thai family in the Kingdom. 

 

There seem to be many westerners who have gotten non-O visas, regardless of the intent of this visa, who have subsequently used them as a valid basis for a retirement extension. But Thailand has been plugging up so many loopholes of late, I'm wondering if the non-O is now one of them or will soon become one. Thanks!

For the purpose of retirement you should still be able to convert a tourist visa or 30 day stamp to a 90 day O visa IN Thailand. With that, you can then later apply for your first annual extension based on retirement. The funds need to be shown to have been imported from abroad for the O visa step.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, OtinPattaya said:

For a non-O are the immigration officers going to ask me for some proof of volunteer work or Thai family residing in the Kingdom? Are westerners still routinely being granted non-O visas without such proof?

You're going the 800K baht route. That is about retirement. Your concerns are unfounded. Absolutely DO NOT mention volunteer work or anything else when applying for a conversion from 30 day stamp or tourist visa to 90 day O visa IN Thailand!

[OtinPattaya]

I thought having the 800k in a thai bank for 2 months was only for the retirement extension step, which presupposed you'd already have the non-O or non-O-A. But you're saying that before applying for the non-O in Thailand, I'd already have the 800k in a Thai bank for 2 months, and the application for the non-O conversion would be based on that (the 800k for 2 months)? Having this 800k for 2 months would then be the main requirement for obtaining the non-O once I'm 50 years old. And then, say, a month before the 3-month non-O runs out, I'd then apply for an extension based on retirement. Do I finally have this figured out? Thanks!

 

 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, OtinPattaya said:

I thought having the 800k in a thai bank for 2 months was only for the retirement extension step, which presupposed you'd already have the non-O or non-O-A. But you're saying that before applying for the non-O in Thailand, I'd already have the 800k in a Thai bank for 2 months, and the application for the non-O conversion would be based on that (the 800k for 2 months)? Having this 800k for 2 months would then be the main requirement for obtaining the non-O once I'm 50 years old. And then, say, a month before the 3-month non-O runs out, I'd then apply for an extension based on retirement. Do I finally have this figured out? Thanks!

 

 

To qualify for a conversion of a 30 day stamp or tourist visa IN Thailand for the purpose of retirement, yes, you need to show the 800K in a Thai bank of funds imported from abroad for that first step, getting a 90 day O visa. Under the rules at that point, the funds do NOT need be seasoned at all. A member here is suggesting that at least one office is saying it does. In any case if you CAN season the money two months for that first step, no harm in doing that. Once you have that 90 day O visa, then apply for the extension about 30 days before the end of the 90 day visa and of course by that time your money will definitely be seasoned enough for that second and final step. 

[OtinPattaya]

Thanks for confirming. It's weird that in the documentation you find on the web regarding non-O requirements it basically says nothing regarding the retirement route. Below is copied from the Thai consulate website in DC. 

 

I suppose Thai immigration would prefer prospective retirees take the O-A route perhaps because of the medical and criminal background checks. Not sure. 

 

Non-Immigrant Visa Category “O”

Non-Immigrant Visa Category “O”

Purpose of Visit: Applicants who wish to stay with family in Thailand (Thai Family)
Applicants who wish for volunteering work with the state enterprises or social welfare organizations in Thailand  (Volunteering)

Documents Required for Non-Immigrant Visa Category “O” (Thai Family):
1. Your actual Passport or Travel Document. (Passport or Travel Document must not expire within 6 months and contain at least ONE completely empty visa page).
2. One original visa application form completely filled out (black and blue ink only) (Download)
3. Two passport-size photographs (2″x2″) (photocopy or photo taken from Photostat will not be accepted). Photographs must have a light color background with a full- face view of the person without wearing a hat or dark glasses and covering up shoulders. Photos must be taken within 6 months.
4. A copy of flight confirmation/reservation , showing going from US to Thailand and leaving from Thailand (The name of the applicant must indicated clearly)
5. A copy of recent bank statement  ($700 per person and $1,500 per family) (The name of the applicant must indicated clearly) , In case of submitting family bank statement a proof of relationship (i.e. birth certificate, marriage certificate) must be provided.

6.For non-US citizen, a copy of permanent resident alien card or a copy of valid US visa with a letter proof of employment ( **we don’t accept pay stubs**)
7. If you are a former Thai citizen, proof of Thai citizen such as Thai passport or Thai identification card
8. If you want to visit as a spouse or family member (spouse, son or daughter), proof of relationship such as a photocopy of marriage license or birth certificate with a proof that your spouse or family member is a Thai citizen such as as a photocopy of Thai passport or Thai identification card

9. For minor under 20 years old, please provide following documents
– Notarized copy of a birth certificate
– Notarized copy of marriage certificate , In case of sole custody notarized copy of court order must be provided.
– Notarized copy or original passports or ID of mother and father/ legal guardian
– Original letter of notarized consent for the minor to travel abroad from mother and father/ legal guardian

***All supporting materials that are not in English must be accompanied by certified English translations and certified by an embassy only ***

[OtinPattaya]

obviously there are different requirements for obtaining the non-O from within  Thailand or neighboring countries than from within the USA. But it's almost like they don't want us to know about ???? it

[Jingthing]

20 minutes ago, OtinPattaya said:

obviously there are different requirements for obtaining the non-O from within  Thailand or neighboring countries than from within the USA. But it's almost like they don't want us to know about ???? it

In this case, it's not that much of a mystery.

If you want a retirement status visa from the D.C. embassy you must apply for an O-A visa. Or a 10 year O-X visa.

The page you show is about O visas.

They will NOT grant you an O visa there based on retirement.

It used to be some consulates would. I got a 90 day O visa at a consulate there over a decade ago based on exploring retirement.

I'm assuming that's mostly over in the U.S. now.

You can get a 90 day O in some neighboring countries to Thailand but you may as well do it via the conversion method in Thailand as described. 

If so I would suggest entering on a tourist visa, not a 30 day stamp. 

Thai immigration in Thailand does not care one bit at all if you enter on a O visa or O-A visa or do a conversion to O in Thailand. But if do you do enter on an O-A visa you won't need to apply for your first extension for a year or two (depending on how you use it). 

 

A bit of philosophy -- I suggest not bother to try to understand WHY Thai immigration does things. It's hard enough to know what they will require at any given time. That's all that really matters. Playing the game. Meeting their current rules.

 

To add -- are you sure you really want to retire here? Have you read about the recent changes? They are not nice. 

Edited April 7, 2019 by Jingthing

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, OtinPattaya said:

Thanks for confirming. It's weird that in the documentation you find on the web regarding non-O requirements it basically says nothing regarding the retirement route. Below is copied from the Thai consulate website in DC. 

 

I suppose Thai immigration would prefer prospective retirees take the O-A route perhaps because of the medical and criminal background checks. Not sure. 

Thai Embassies/Consulates and the Visas they offer come under the jurisdiction of the MFA, not Thai Immigration.

 

[jacko45k]

20 hours ago, JackThompson said:

He's coming to Pattaya, so the Jomtien office will require his 800K be seasoned in the bank 2 months before applying for the Non-O stamp - and the use of income for this with that desk seems to vary over time.  With 800K in the bank 2 mo before applying for the Non-O - should be able to get it, with a few visits for "extra things" requested.

There is no seasoning requirement to do the conversion of an entry to a non-Imm-O stamp. Only a need to show the money came from overseas. The seasoning would only be required for the subsequent Extension which can be done after 2 months, prior to the 90 day permission ending. 

 

(Just seen your later post).

Yes I believe that desk in Jomtiem is playing their own games and may require something else.. 

Edited April 8, 2019 by jacko45k

[OtinPattaya]

The honest answer is, yes, I am sure I want to retire to Thailand. At least while I am relatively young. I'm not sure how to explain it. Despite the naivete of some of my immigration questions, I wouldn't assume that the rest of my motivations are equally naïve or uninformed. The one thing that has become painfully obvious to me is that anyone, not just those in my peculiar predicament, everyone contemplating long-term or retirement in Thailand needs to have a PLAN B, whether that plan B is the Philippines, Vietnam, Costa Rica, or wherever. My heart bleeds for westerners who have Thai wives, or God forbid, children under this current atmosphere of bureaucratic whimsy. It must be agonizing.  

Edited April 8, 2019 by OtinPattaya

[Tanoshi]

12 minutes ago, OtinPattaya said:

My heart bleeds for westerners who have Thai wives, or God forbid, children under this current atmosphere of bureaucratic whimsy. It must be agonizing.  

Please give one example of what's agonising from a bureaucratical viewpoint, when married to a Thai.

[OtinPattaya]

I think it's pretty obvious that official Thailand isn't exactly rolling out the red carpet for more permanent western retirees or expats, even the ones who can afford it, preferring instead the fast and easy Chinese bucks and the endless tourist buses from East India. It definitely seems to be there is very conscious, probably cultural, backlash against western culture "invading" Thailand. This is a deeply sovereign country, which I as an American respect. I think economically Thailand is making a grave mistake. But the street vendor et al is the one who is going suffer the consequences of Thai immigration law. I totally understand there have been abuses of immigration law in Thailand. But as an American, the one thing I will tell you is that Americans are wonderful as a nation in identifying problems in America. But what does America do? We make the remedy 10x worse than the disease. So it's not just Thai immigration that is the problem.