Do you believe in God and why

[AsianAtHeart]

27 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Great. Now you argue about how the universe was created, a topic where both sides can only speculate.

????????

 

55 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

I have read so many ignorant comments saying man created God, and God is a product of blind faith or primitive man came up with this idea.

 

We all know the universe began to exist.  This needed a cause.  The universe is finely tuned and cannot happen by sheer chance.  It is obvious the fine tuning of the universe is due to design.  Was all this one big accident?  I think not and neither should any of you.

 

I think the answer is self-evident.  God created the universe and we need to respond to His creation and His promise of ever lasting life.

 

Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.

Really?  But don't you think this picture shows evidence of a tornado having made something?

To be honest, it would have been far easier to believe that a dust devil made this happen than to believe we humans evolved and made ourselves by random chance.  Besides, if we are evolving as they say, how come we don't have radio antennae on our heads yet--a new sense?  When are we going to get it?

[Sunmaster]

Don't get me wrong. I too believe in a Creator, but I have no idea how this Creator created the universe, nor does anyone else for that matter. All we have at this point are speculations. The Big Bang Theory is simply a theory (conceived by a catholic priest!) and far from being a proven fact.
Some masters who have attained unity with God will probably know, but even if they try to explain it to us, it will make little sense I fear.

[ThaiBunny]

9 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

Besides, if we are evolving as they say, how come we don't have radio antennae on our heads yet--a new sense?  When are we going to get it?

If you had any inkling about evolution you would know that things change at a glacial pace

[ThaiBunny]

Just now, Sunmaster said:

Some masters who have attained unity with God will probably know, but even if they try to explain it to us, it will make little sense I fear.

I take Gautama's explanation as the only one that's viable - "you'll never know, so stop indulging in such idle speculation"

[Tagged]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Don't hold your breath waiting as there is NO "contradictory evidence" only the opinion of people that are closed to anything they choose not to believe in. Wonder how many of them claim to have been "in love", which is on the same plane as belief in "God". Neither are "provable" by our primitive science.

Same same chemicals, and just a feeling. You can fall in love over and over many time, be it same lady or many. We can also lead is in to feel love convinced it is something bigger than life, but hormons and brain play only together with strong need. 

[Tagged]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Still confusing religion with faith, I see.

Obvious you know!

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, yodsak said:

Scientists do not have the understanding, the intelligence or the tools to "understand" "God, which is an impossibility for such a primitive species as we. The arrogance of humans is that they think they can.

Human science can't find a cure for cancer, war or hatred, yet scientists think they can prove that "God" does not exist by primitive human reasoning.

I suggest they go away and shut up till they can create life, the universe and everything.

Just think about the universe- the uncountable trillions of stars and planets. Of course there is life on some of those planets though we might not recognise them as life as we know it. Yet, humans are so utterly arrogant that they think we are the only intelligent life in the universe.

I like the theory that if there is other life in our galaxy capable of traveling to Earth, they are too intelligent to let us know they exist.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Seems to me that this discussion has interesting points but gets repeatedly dragged down to the same point of contention: Religion, and most of the time it's Christian religion and the bible.
This is what most of us here (I think) grew up with. Some had good experiences, some not.
Christian religion is a small wedge of the whole pie. Even if you're knowledgeable of all the religions, you will still have only a small part of the picture.

Imagine spirituality to be like an iceberg, where only a small part is visible above the surface: that's religion as a codified system to (ideally) bring men closer to God. This part can be analyzed, its messages put under scrutiny, its efficacy debated. 

The much larger part (in fact infinitely larger) is below the surface, it's the subjective part that can be only accessed and understood by actively practicing, calming the mind and going deep within. 

Now, you can debate about the iceberg tip until your typing fingers are sore or you have a nervous breakdown, but will it bring you even one step closer to the Truth? Nope.
And that's why I can easily say R. Dawkins has no idea what he's talking about. He attacks the tip of the iceberg (more or less successfully) and thinks he has done away with the whole iceberg.

The value of any religion is proportional to the ability to bring its followers closer to God, not just intellectually through belief and faith, but through direct experience of the Divine. 
Not believing, but knowing!

Excellent post, but I fear the minds that read it are closed to even the possibility that a greater power than we pathetic humans exists.

What I don't understand is why for 306 pages they insist on identifying "God" as a product of religion, when some of us have spent those same pages pointing out that religion is not all there is to the creator. It's like they think if the keep saying the same thing over and over we will change our minds. I do hope that none of the atheists think that I'm trying to convince them that "God" exists. Nothing could be further from my intentions.

 

This thread has been brilliant for opening me up to different interpretations of "God". I started out as an agnostic, and now I see "God" in every sunset, every rainshower, every starry starry night, in everything pleasurable in nature.

[Tagged]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Scientists do not have the understanding, the intelligence or the tools to "understand" "God, which is an impossibility for such a primitive species as we. The arrogance of humans is that they think they can.

Human science can't find a cure for cancer, war or hatred, yet scientists think they can prove that "God" does not exist by primitive human reasoning.

I suggest they go away and shut up till they can create life, the universe and everything.

Just think about the universe- the uncountable trillions of stars and planets. Of course there is life on some of those planets though we might not recognise them as life as we know it. Yet, humans are so utterly arrogant that they think we are the only intelligent life in the universe.

I like the theory that if there is other life in our galaxy capable of traveling to Earth, they are too intelligent to let us know they exist.

What do you think when you see something like this? What is your first thought about what going on inside you, and looking out where we are on this planet, in this galaxy in our universe?

 

Do we live inside god? 

 

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, ThaiBunny said:

As a matter of interest (and I'm assuming your handle means you're in Chiang Mai) presumably you believe that all of the Thais amongst whom you live are destined for Hell?

I wrote a long post explaining why Thais will not go to hell, but I misunderstood that all you were doing was belittling ( IMO ) someone who believes differently to yourself.

[Skeptic7]

4 hours ago, ThaiBunny said:

As a matter of interest (and I'm assuming your handle means you're in Chiang Mai) presumably you believe that all of the Thais amongst whom you live are destined for Hell?

Always assumed he's a missionary whose life's work is to "save" them, despite the fact they don't need it or biblical BS. Nobody needs it. 

Edited December 22, 2019 by Skeptic7

[Tagged]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Excellent post, but I fear the minds that read it are closed to even the possibility that a greater power than we pathetic humans exists.

What I don't understand is why for 306 pages they insist on identifying "God" as a product of religion, when some of us have spent those same pages pointing out that religion is not all there is to the creator. It's like they think if the keep saying the same thing over and over we will change our minds. I do hope that none of the atheists think that I'm trying to convince them that "God" exists. Nothing could be further from my intentions.

 

This thread has been brilliant for opening me up to different interpretations of "God". I started out as an agnostic, and now I see "God" in every sunset, every rainshower, every starry starry night, in everything pleasurable in nature.

You know, you can create whatever you want out of this tread, and you continue to repeat yourselves over and over about the same, nagging about faith and religion is not part of each other. I mean you are totally wrong, since religion is exactly what is driving this planet, either you like to believe it or not. We both have grew up with religion, and later choosed our thoughts around it random on what we have experienced, but nothing of what we believe today, would not have existed in our minds, if we where not teached and told when young. We have been heavily brainwashed, and that have led ut here today, still discussion the same. Your angle of attack is so single minded, and excuse me for my language, but there are some few of you, attacking the intelllect of others that we do not understand. Well it goes both ways when you meet people who are so biased by religion, and still think they have a choice regarding what they believe in, and forgetting about where they actually come from. 

 

I say, I do not dismiss any god, power or supreme leader, I just say, I choose to be close to what I have near, and thats this planet who gave me life, and then you go go wider, and praise the sky, the sun and so on. 

 

In fact in the bible that is a sin, and very clearly stated, that you shall not worship the sky and sun if I remember right. Need to double check later, but now I have to go back to the real life right her right now ???? 

[thaibeachlovers]

9 minutes ago, Tagged said:

What do you think when you see something like this? What is your first thought about what going on inside you, and looking out where we are on this planet, in this galaxy in our universe?

 

Do we live inside god? 

 

 

 

 

IF I understand you correctly, when I see something like that I think that God is absolutely amazing to make something like that.

God is what gave us and everything that lives life. If human scientists could even make something like that, they couldn't make it live.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, Tagged said:

Well it goes both ways when you meet people who are so biased by religion, and still think they have a choice regarding what they believe in, and forgetting about where they actually come from. 

How does that apply to me when I don't believe in religion?

 

5 minutes ago, Tagged said:

In fact in the bible that is a sin, and very clearly stated, that you shall not worship the sky and sun if I remember right.

The thing you reference is the bit about "Thou shalt have no other God than me", but if you think I worship the sky you are several light years off the reality. When I see the wonder of nature I think of the creator that made it all.

[canuckamuck]

That there is a God is the most efficient and logical hypothesis. It answers everything without any outrageous speculation.

[Tagged]

13 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

That there is a God is the most efficient and logical hypothesis. It answers everything without any outrageous speculation.

But what god is will be the single question left, and not to forget, who is our god? The planet, the sky, the sun, the invisible god in the sky, heaven, galaxy, universe, multiverse, or what ever there is? Planet earth, Mother earth, Gaia  is a good start to obey not concour!

 

Have a splended holiday with whoever you choose to believe in, and to most important we often forget, is to believe in ourself, first then we can go out and find the right answers for ourself. 

[yodsak]

[canuckamuck]

39 minutes ago, Tagged said:

But what god is will be the single question left, and not to forget, who is our god? The planet, the sky, the sun, the invisible god in the sky, heaven, galaxy, universe, multiverse, or what ever there is? Planet earth, Mother earth, Gaia  is a good start to obey not concour!

 

Have a splended holiday with whoever you choose to believe in, and to most important we often forget, is to believe in ourself, first then we can go out and find the right answers for ourself. 

 Isn't it better to have a starting point though?

Once you are no longer concerned about whether or not there is a creator God. You can start to investigate the claims about God.

Much more scientific. than all these multiverses and infinite time concepts which are only invented as God repellent for those who would rather anything else is true.

[Mitkof Island]

Starting to doubt it. After watching a mental case for the last three days on YouTube harassing a man dying of cancer while his disciples egg him on.

[Tagged]

13 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

 Isn't it better to have a starting point though?

Once you are no longer concerned about whether or not there is a creator God. You can start to investigate the claims about God.

Much more scientific. than all these multiverses and infinite time concepts which are only invented as God repellent for those who would rather anything else is true.

 Im Right here right now on Mother earth, thats all I need to know, and all I need to respect and fear with everything on it. 

[mauGR1]

25 minutes ago, yodsak said:

The fact that you try to legitimate your nonsense with frames and pictures of babies does not make it less nonsense.

Apart from religion, which of course is debatable, babies are taught other things to make adults out of them, are you also against education ?

Try and get a grip ????

[Sunmaster]

29 minutes ago, yodsak said:

Nice..., where did you copy this one from? AtheistsRUs?????????

 

[canuckamuck]

13 minutes ago, Tagged said:

 Im Right here right now on Mother earth, thats all I need to know, and all I need to respect and fear with everything on it. 

Then this topic is meaningless to you and you are wasting your time.

[Skeptic7]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

The fact that you try to legitimate your nonsense with frames and pictures of babies does not make it less nonsense.

Apart from religion, which of course is debatable, babies are taught other things to make adults out of them, are you also against education ?

Try and get a grip ????

You're confusing education with indoctrination. Education is great and the information is basically taught the same around the globe based on facts. 

 

Indoctrination is basically teaching and sometimes forcing subjective beliefs and dogma upon children whom are not old enough to understand and cannot yet think critically. 

 

Try to keep up and understand. ????

[sirineou]

7 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

The fact that you try to legitimate your nonsense with frames and pictures of babies does not make it less nonsense.

Apart from religion, which of course is debatable, babies are taught other things to make adults out of them, are you also against education ?

 

You're confusing education with indoctrination. Education is great and the information is basically taught the same around the globe based on facts. 

 

Indoctrination is basically teaching and sometimes forcing subjective beliefs and dogma upon children whom are not old enough to understand and cannot yet think critically. 

 

Try to keep up and understand. ????

I wish we did not make these small comments at the end of an argument such as "Try and get a grip  " and " Try to keep up and understand. " which adds an additional element . and distracts from the argument, putting one on a defencive posture.

    What Skeptic 7 is saying is obviously correct. All people are born Atheist. In fact the church agrees with that assessment and an unbaptised baby that dies can not go to heaven and goes to hell. 

How absurd to tell a grieving Christian parent whose baby has died that because they did not have a chance to Baptise their baby , it will burn in hell forever. How cruel!!! It is an obvious device to make parents enter their children in the church as quickly as possible. 

Is it coincidence that almost every person born to a christian parent is a christian  and every child born to a muslim parent is a muslim ? 

What religion you are is not a conscious decision, it is simply an accident of birth.

  

[mauGR1]

8 minutes ago, sirineou said:

I wish we did not make these small comments at the end of an argument such as "Try and get a grip  " and " Try to keep up and understand. " which adds an additional element . and distracts from the argument, putting one on a defencive posture.

Since the beginning of times i'm getting stalked by your atheist comrades, but when i give back a taste of your medicine, suddenly you are holier than the holiest ????

Thanks for stating the obvious, a child is born atheist, and may i add, cannot walk, cannot speak, cannot read or write.. Did i forget something, feel free to add ????

..And if i cannot give you God on a silver platter, it doesn't exist, right ?

..And i've nothing to to with organised religion and rituals, so don't use those arguments against me..

 

[luckyluke]

2 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

.. You can start to investigate the claims about God.

 

Too difficult to understand for common people. 

 

Well it is for me, anyway. 

 

Being 71+, I am 60+ years happy without religion/God. 

 

But I am convinced that a lot of people are happy with religion/God, or any kind of belief/faith... they believe in. 

 

 

 

[Tagged]

2 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Then this topic is meaningless to you and you are wasting your time.

If you going to try to insult, you can try a bit harder ????????????

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, mauGR1 said:

Since the beginning of times i'm getting stalked by your atheist comrades, but when i give back a taste of your medicine, suddenly you are holier than the holiest ????

Thanks for stating the obvious, a child is born atheist, and may i add, cannot walk, cannot speak, cannot read or write.. Did i forget something, feel free to add ????

..And if i cannot give you God on a silver platter, it doesn't exist, right ?

..And i've nothing to to with organised religion and rituals, so don't use those arguments against me..

 

I am sorry if I offended you,the observation was directed at both sides, and I should had added that I am often guilty of, but cognizant and try to refrain. certainly not holier than thou.

I was not stating the Obvious , I was supporting Skeptic's post which you seemed to have a problem with, I noticed that you did not dispute any of the points I made, 

 Though I don't believe in the existence of god,(biblical god) nothing in what I said contradicted his existence ,  it was simply a critique and observation ,of the existence of religious indoctrination.

I am sorry that you feel we are being stalked, IMO we respect you enough to engage you in conversation. Isn't that what we are here for? Or is it simply a soapbox from where we make speeches? 

 

[canuckamuck]

13 minutes ago, Tagged said:

If you going to try to insult, you can try a bit harder ????????????

No, that was advice.