Do you believe in God and why

[mikebike]

Although pain CAN lead to "growth" it is by no means a foregone conclusion that it will. As often as not pain leads to no "growth" only anger, bitterness, self loathing and all the myriad of mental health issues we see today. The thought that pain is required for growth is truly laughable.

[mauGR1]

9 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

how we view the self.  We talk as if there are definitive divisions between portions of ourselves but in reality there are none.  I would disagree that we have a spiritual self that is apart from our earthly self. 

First of all, thanks for all your thought provoking posts.

I quoted just a part of your post, for the sake of brevity. 

While you are right to say that body, soul, spirit are all one, and mankind is one, and everything is one, in the end....???? that's true in more than 1 way.

Well, for the sake of the discussion, in the same way we consider the physical body "an entity composed of different parts", we can say the same for the soul..the "soul " can also experience infinite states of consciousness... it's not that uncommon for a person to have parts of his soul in conflict with each other ..

so one can say, body and soul are connected and separated at the same time. I believe this is possible because in fact they "compenetrate" each other.

 

[Tippaporn]

11 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Although pain CAN lead to "growth" it is by no means a foregone conclusion that it will. As often as not pain leads to no "growth" only anger, bitterness, self loathing and all the myriad of mental health issues we see today. The thought that pain is required for growth is truly laughable.

I agree that pain does not guarantee growth.  It can lead to, as you say, even greater pain.  But I would aver that ultimately all pain leads one back to happiness.  Perhaps not in a particular lifetime but in due "time" it's an eventuality.

[xylophone]

9 hours ago, irishman25 said:

there are so many God's in this world so where your born there have a different God' now, what is the the answer when we kill each other over in the name of GOD

[mikebike]

4 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

But I would aver that ultimately all pain leads one back to happiness.  Perhaps not in a particular lifetime but in due "time" it's an eventuality.

I have no idea what this means. "Not in a particular lifetime"? "All pain leads one back to happiness"? WTH does any of that mean? If your "theory" is even remotely correct, shouldn't humanity be overcome with neverending happiness by now? I mean we humans HAVE been suffering pain for thousands of years - why are we not reaping the rewards of all that ultimate happiness in 2022?

[Hummin]

2 minutes ago, mikebike said:

I have no idea what this means. "Not in a particular lifetime"? "All pain leads one back to happiness"? WTH does any of that mean? If your "theory" is even remotely correct, shouldn't humanity be overcome with neverending happiness by now? I mean we humans HAVE been suffering pain for thousands of years - why are we not reaping the rewards of all that ultimate happiness in 2022?

Life is a perfect organized chaos. It have a beginning and an end. Recycle

[xylophone]

There are those who believe in a god and those who don't........

[Tippaporn]

18 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

First of all, thanks for all your thought provoking posts.

I quoted just a part of your post, for the sake of brevity. 

While you are right to say that body, soul, spirit are all one, and mankind is one, and everything is one, in the end....???? that's true in more than 1 way.

Well, for the sake of the discussion, in the same way we consider the physical body "an entity composed of different parts", we can say the same for the soul..the "soul " can also experience infinite states of consciousness... it's not that uncommon for a person to have parts of his soul in conflict with each other ..

so one can say, body and soul are connected and separated at the same time. I believe this is possible because in fact they "compenetrate" each other.

 

In my understanding we are soul.  A soul clothed in flesh and blood.  The Christian concept is that we possess a soul, as if it were some thing separate from us which we need to earn and then reclaim.  We reside in a physical body and yet our body is not who we are.  We are composed of cells and yet we are not any one of our cells.  We can be broken down even further into individual molecules, which are themselves composed of individual atoms, which are composed of even smaller particles.  The best explanation I've found is that we are a gestalt consciousness.  In other words, our individual consciousness is aligned with other individual consciousnesses in a cooperative venture.  I believe we have an incomplete and erroneous idea of identity.

Not sure what you mean by having different parts of us in conflict.

[Tippaporn]

17 minutes ago, xylophone said:

I gave it a "laugh" reaction because of the twisted logic.

[mikebike]

9 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

I gave it a "laugh" reaction because of the twisted logic.

Please elaborate. The logic seems rick-solid to me.

[mikebike]

13 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

In my understanding we are soul.

Please allow me to elaborate: "In my understanding, we are something which does not, provably, exist". I just want you to really believe with me. Is that it?

[amexpat]

[Tippaporn]

51 minutes ago, mikebike said:

I have no idea what this means. "Not in a particular lifetime"? "All pain leads one back to happiness"? WTH does any of that mean? If your "theory" is even remotely correct, shouldn't humanity be overcome with neverending happiness by now? I mean we humans HAVE been suffering pain for thousands of years - why are we not reaping the rewards of all that ultimate happiness in 2022?

mikebike, are you here to gain any understanding beyond you're current understanding?  I mean, there's no problem if you're perfectly happy and satisfied with what you believe.  More power to you.  But if that's the case and you have no interest in altering your beliefs at all then why are you posting in this thread?  It's

a serious question.

[Pateyo]

7 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

mikebike, are you here to gain any understanding beyond you're current understanding?  I mean, there's no problem if you're perfectly happy and satisfied with what you believe.  More power to you.  But if that's the case and you have no interest in altering your beliefs at all then why are you posting in this thread?  It's

a serious question.

To alter the beiLIEve in the words=lies of others=deceivers will not make any change towards real life. It will still keep you trapped in the Dead System of mind slavery.
You must therefore leave all beLIEve Systems to be able to see through the last veil (reVEALation) and then to see the Truth=life=light.

[mauGR1]

49 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

In my understanding we are soul.  A soul clothed in flesh and blood.  The Christian concept is that we possess a soul, as if it were some thing separate from us which we need to earn and then reclaim.  We reside in a physical body and yet our body is not who we are.  We are composed of cells and yet we are not any one of our cells.  We can be broken down even further into individual molecules, which are themselves composed of individual atoms, which are composed of even smaller particles.  The best explanation I've found is that we are a gestalt consciousness.  In other words, our individual consciousness is aligned with other individual consciousnesses in a cooperative venture.  I believe we have an incomplete and erroneous idea of identity.

Not sure what you mean by having different parts of us in conflict.

You're wrong about the Christian belief. 

The image of the body being  cloth is poetic, yet the body is not just a cloth. 

Among other things is a vehicle for the spirit to connect with, and influence the physical realm.

As for the different parts of the soul being in conflict, desire and intuition are aspects of the soul, right .. I'll give you an example which most will understand.. like when you are attracted by some woman, but you're intuition is telling you that it will be a disaster.

One could say that having conflicts within the soul is more common than the opposite, and surely the soul is a " place" where the most epic battles happen. 

[Sunmaster]

Next up is BLUE, which is a way to put the wild and lawless aggression of Red into a more structured system. Here laws and order is required to keep the chaos at bay. Justice is a big keyword and it's a justice that comes from a higher power. Societies again lean towards a sense of community. Religions are codified, laws established, moral and ethical guidelines created.

A big part of today's societies are rooted in Blue. Think bible belt in the US, (constitutional) monarchies like Thailand, Islamic countries, organizations such as the police (Thin Blue Line) and the army, where a clear hierarchy operates from the top down.
On a personal level, the child recognizes the benefits of cooperation and rules.

Healthy: structure, cooperation for the greater good, a sense of community

Unhealthy: dogma, inflexible laws and rigid rules

More on Blue here.

 

Core values:
Authoritarianism, Holy, meaningful
Paradigm:
Order: “We are saved.”
World View:
The world is well organized, purposeful and subjected to holy (Divine) laws, which will punish evil and will reward the “correct” way of living.
Life Motto:
“I sacrifice myself to the Way for a deferred reward.”
Life Theme:
To discover meaning and purpose in life and searching for order, security and stability.
Life Philosophy:
Live according to the Way and the Truth and serving the doctrine and doing duty with an eye on future rewards.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Sunmaster

[Iamfalang]

definitely not a believer.   made-up stuff way back to get people to act civilized, scare them, sell stuff, control.   divide and conquer.  

 

Is there something?  alien stuff?  dark matter energy?   maybe stuff like that exists.  

 

I would definitely believe in Satan before I would believe in God.   

 

Have you been to Pattaya?  lol

[Tippaporn]

23 minutes ago, amexpat said:

I may as well reply to the lot of you with a single post.  Some of you might think that I'm religious and so are directing the above towards me.  Perhaps with the sole intention of getting a rise outta me.  I hate to disappoint but I'm not religious in the least.  I'm just saying to save you guys the time and effort of posting things that don't affect me at all.

Now you may enjoy feeling superior in that your concept and understanding of reality is spot on whereas what some folks here talk about seems far out there.  Like Pluto ways, if you know what I mean.  If that's the case then let me remind just how F'd up the world is today.  Now you might be asking yourselves how it got to the deplorable and sad state that it's in.  If that question draws a blank then consider for a moment that the current mass accepted ideas that got us here, of which most of you lot fevently believe in, are the cause of today's troubles.

Now you may take objection with that assessment and if so I'll be happy to point out that most of the mass accepted ideas of how reality works, you know, the ones most of you lot subscribe to, when put together to come up with a cohesive and logically bullet proof picture to describe in minute detail this functional working reality you'd be amazed at how many universe-sized holes there are in the logic and how nothing ties together.

Now if you're seriously interested in considering . . . I'm not talking about believing, just simply considering . . . an alternate explanation as to how reality actually works then think about this:  if you were to delve into any subject matter with the intention of having some mastery over it do you think you could do it by reading a single sentence?  A mere concept or two?  A couple of paragraphs?  In five minutes?  An hour.  Geez, would a day be asking too much?  LOL  I won't even get into the other myriad obstacles which cause otherwise very intelligent people treat unfamiliar ideas as if they were the plague.

 

Anyway, if there's anyone of you who are seriously interested in expanding your understanding I'll happily engage.  Otherwise, I'll conclude that you're just here to kill time.

[Sunmaster]

After Blue comes ORANGE. 
The pendulum swings again, from community values to individual values. The individual and his needs are at the center again.
Orange wants to distance itself from the rigid and restrictive Blue, wants to get rid of the chains of blind faith and puts all its energy into rational, scientific discovery. This is where most materialists and atheist feel at home. 
"The world is my oyster and is there to fulfill my needs, whatever the cost."

 

Today we can see Orange at work in countries like the US and many European countries, UK, Australia, big business conglomerates.
On the individual level: the teenage years, rebellion from the parents, search for independence and freedom.

More about Orange here.

 

Healthy: A strong drive to understand the material world, scientific and technological discoveries, freedom from religious dogma

Unhealthy: Advances and profit at all costs, exploitation of natural resources, unbridled capitalism

Core Values:
Autonomy, materialistic, result-driven
Paradigm:
Success “I improve myself.”
World View:
The (makeable) world is full of chances and opportunities and the world can be fully understood by using rational thinking.
Life Motto:
“I manifest myself through artful calculation.”
Life Theme:
Accumulate material abundance, individual freedom, and grab opportunities.
Life Philosophy:
I am responsible for my own wealth, and that is why I develop my skills. I think, therefore I exist.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Sunmaster

[Sunmaster]

After the very individualistic and rational Orange, the pendulum swings again towards community.

GREEN
People who have seen what unbridled capitalism and materialism can do to the environment and the way it changed societies, now driven by greed and profit, start to look for an alternative way of living. "Feeling" becomes more important than "having". Social justice and equality become central values. Movements arise to protect minorities and the environment (NGO's, BLM, Greenpeace, WWF, Fridays for Future). 

 

Green is spreading quickly (most of the world today is at Blue and Orange), mostly among the younger generations. 

Today we can see Green in countries like Scandinavia, the Netherlands, Canada, California and Belgium. Hollywood is a big promoter.
On an individual level: the young adult, a step towards maturity. Away from egocentric to sociocentric.
More on Green here.

 

Healthy: harmony with others and the earth
Unhealthy: Social Justice Warriors, the Woke movement, sex and gender confusion

Core Values:
Relativistic, socio-centric, equality.
Paradigm:
Community “ We become”
Word View:
The world is a shared community for the whole of humanity who shares Mother Earth as their home.
Life Motto:
“I sacrifice myself now to be accepted by the group”
Life Theme:
Welfare, love, find meaning in life, personal growth and to live in harmony with others and with the Earth.
Life Philosophy:
I feel emotions, therefore I am alive. In essence, everyone is equal.

[formanth]

This thread is getting more bizarre by the the hour....Hallelujah !

 

" sorry my karma ran over your dogma but you see, I was in a hurry to get to nirvana, listening to the prophet ...

but then, "what's the hurry", science said, "you're only a billion years young and you have gotten nowhere".

"Congratulations!", God said, "you are nowhere, but paradoxically, now,here. Just like myself and science, for all who have eyes to see.

 

Why must it be one or the other?...right...

Edited May 22, 2022 by formanth

[Hummin]

11 minutes ago, formanth said:

This thread is getting more bizarre by the the hour....Hallelujah !

 

" sorry my karma ran over your dogma but  you see, I was in a hurry to get to nirvana..

but then "what's the hurry", science said, you're only a billion years young and you have gotten nowhere.

Congratulations, you are nowhere and now..here.

The most fantastic is, we are living in countries where we are allowed to say and express our self without being in danger. However there are some social standards, a few political rules you have to follow, but you are allowed to believe in gods, ghosts and fairytales as much you want, and even claim it is truths. 
 

You can also claim you know the answers to the universe and its mysterious, and complicate it with all kinds of explanations. 
 

What I do not understand, why is it so hard to simplify everything, by just say, we do not know really? 

[Sunmaster]

And the last one (for me...I haven't drawn Turquoise yet).

YELLOW

Yellow is different from all other stages and is considered the first of the 2nd tier stages. This is because there is some kind of big leap from Green to Yellow. Yellow is able to look at all previous stages (1st tier) and see that they are all necessary steps and have a reason to be. Yellow wants to free itself from the herd mentality of Green and seeks a new, individualistic way of solving the world's problems. 
Learning is at the center of attention now, trying to understand and integrate all kinds of subjects, even those that (on the surface) seem to be opposites (science and mysticism for example).
Yellow is able to take on multiple perspectives.

Spirituality was dismissed by Orange, superficially approached by Green and fully embraced by Yellow.

There are not many examples of Yellow in todays society. It is a rather new and emerging stage. Herman Hesse's last masterpiece "The Glass Bead Game" is a great example of Yellow.
On a personal level: maturity, the ability to look back at one's life and see how all the "good" and "bad" experiences are connected. Connections are found everywhere, from the micro- to the macro-cosmos.

Healthy: visionary thinking, out-of-the-box thinking, innovations that shake old structures, 

Unhealthy: too much analyzing, can become cold and distant.

More about Yellow here.

 

Core Values:
Systemic, integral, emergent
Paradigm:
Synergy “ I am learning.”
World View:
The world is a complex, self-organizing, natural system that requires integral solutions.
Life Motto:
“I manifest myself, but not at the cost of others.”
Life Theme:
Effective action to support the whole.
Life Philosophy:
I am searching for freedom and embrace (integral) space and complexity.

[Skeptic7]

2 hours ago, mikebike said:

I have no idea what this means. "Not in a particular lifetime"? "All pain leads one back to happiness"? WTH does any of that mean? If your "theory" is even remotely correct, shouldn't humanity be overcome with neverending happiness by now? I mean we humans HAVE been suffering pain for thousands of years - why are we not reaping the rewards of all that ultimate happiness in 2022?

Deepak Chopra of this thread. Word ???? extraordinaire. Don't take the bait Mike and get sucked into their black hole of ridiculous nothingness. 

Edited May 22, 2022 by Skeptic7

[Sunmaster]

6 hours ago, ivor bigun said:

hi boys.cant believe my thread has risen from the dead. now who did that ,oh yes Jesus.

glad to see that you are all back anyway .

Not Jesus, just me. ????

 

But don't worry, I will not engage in endless discussions about science VS religion VS spirituality. The same questions and the same answers have been posted over and over again, so I don't see the point. 
I just wanted to share some new content that could be of interest to everyone, regardless of their belief system.
 

[Elad]

10 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

BTW, I am not scientifically illiterate.  I took biology, chemistry and physics classes in high school. 

Then you should know that the only reason you are having this conversation over the internet using a laptop/smartphone is due to our scientific theories in electromagnetism and quantum mechanics. In fact every single electrical device you use, from a washing machine, to a GPS in a car is only possible due to those theories.

 

You should also be aware that the same scientific methods and tools used in developing those theories were used to formulate the theory of evolution by natural selection. Since Darwin's time the evidence (especially the molecular evidence) has become so overwhelming that its about on par with the theory that the Earth orbits the Sun. You can take the genes of thousands of species of animals or plants, plot out the differences and it will produce a perfect hierarchy or family tree. Not only does it match all the fossil evidence, but it gave a few surprises such as whales being very closely related to hippopotamuses, and were once land mammals.  

[pomchop]

Define "God" before you ask if anyone believes.  Otherwise forget about it.

[Hummin]

36 minutes ago, pomchop said:

Define "God" before you ask if anyone believes.  Otherwise forget about it.

God is nothing and everything!

 

God is nothing and everything, because he created everything from nothing

[pomchop]

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

God is nothing and everything!

 

God is nothing and everything, because he created everything from nothing

he she it?

 

[Hummin]

10 minutes ago, pomchop said:

he she it?

 

How can nothing be anything? 
 

Mother earth or father sun? Comets arriving with essential life material like sperm fertilize womens egg. 
 

Everything you are and everything around you is god. You are god! 
 

Easy, to easy