Immigration police question ‘seasteader’

[Shiver]

17 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

 

 I just  got  pipped as  in previous post. lol

????

[Kerryd]

1 hour ago, Longcut said:

All this is fine and good. I find it rather amusing. 

 But, does Thailand really think they would get away with putting this guy to death and suffer no consequences to Thailand?

F** - they aren't going to "put him to death". 

Just more bull**** sensationalism to try and draw sympathy for a guy that was (possibly) trying to scam people out of millions of dollars. 

When was the last time Thailand executed a foreigner ? Hmmm ? 

 

NO foreigner has been executed in Thailand since 2001 when 2 people (one from Hong Kong and one from Taiwan) were executed along with 2 Thais for drug related offences. 
The last Thai executed was in 2018 and that was the first once since 2009 and only the 3rd one since 2004.
Almost every foreigner that receives a death sentence has it commuted almost immediately or by Royal Pardon within a couple years of being sentenced, regardless of the severity of the crime(s) committed.

But by crying wolf as loudly as possible, they hope that the international community will come to their rescue and maybe offer them asylum (and basically what amounts to a "get out of jail free" card).

 

[Xaos]

16 hours ago, MeePeeMai said:

So, if he has indeed been questioned (as reported but not elaborated on), then I am assuming that he would still be on Thai soil?

 

I don't believe that The Thai Immigration questions suspected criminals over the phone or via e-mail ... so if his Visa has been revoked and he has now been blacklisted then he might now be in their custody ....eh?

 

Either that or he fled to Burma or Malaysia and he has been question there (but I doubt it).  Wish we had more facts.

Or in US embassy 

[banagan]

They probably would have gotten away with it if they just built their own, rather than marketing it and proposing 20, to start with, at 200k+ a pop. Can't see any government being ok with that, especially this one.

 

 

[raccos21]

Death Penalty is a bit too much for building a seastead. I would say jail term, blacklist or fine for their crime. Unless he is most wanted International Criminal.

[Mapah]

The sea is not a new frontier, it’s just one we can’t beat it’s a frontier tougher than any other on this planet for us as we are not genetically adapted to live on or under the sea.  Even throwing massive resources at the idea of self sustained off shore environments is unrealistic as ultimately every nut and bolt, shred of cloth or even dare I say it, condom, needs on shore manufacturing.   

 

My 10¢ . Whatever way way you want to look at it, this is just another of those crazy get rich schemes gone wrong aimed at the fuzzy headed fools who have nothing better to do.  The guy got caught and chose the wrong country to dick with.

[owl sees all]

1 hour ago, Longcut said:

All this is fine and good. I find it rather amusing. 

 But, does Thailand really think they would get away with putting this guy to death and suffer no consequences to Thailand?

Yes, I reckon they would. It would not really put Thailand in a good light, but would signify intent; don't mess with us or you will die.

 

Just how would the Thai authorities put these two people down? Firing squad?

[hotchilli]

14 hours ago, observer90210 said:

How about questionning those who built the structure ? Doubt that the guy, as smart as he may be (or not be) did it himself ?

If it's Thai built it'll probably be on the bottom before the years out !

[Splash210]

I'm lookin at how dumb that woman has to be to go along with this plan while she has a son at home that she doesn't want to be bothered with.

[Vacuum]

15 hours ago, Rama said:

Not a very rational or thought out plan (but the seastead isn't either, and neither is 'investing' in bitcoins).

I take it you missed the boat...

[somnumna]

15 hours ago, MeePeeMai said:

 Seems like he did quite well investing in Bitcoin.  Early purchasers and miners who got in real early are multi millionaires now.  I wish I had bought a few thousand back when it was only a buck or two.

 

The price is $5250 right now.

 

The smart guys sold on 17th December 2017 for 20 000 usd 

[shy coconut]

2 hours ago, Longcut said:

All this is fine and good. I find it rather amusing. 

 But, does Thailand really think they would get away with putting this guy to death and suffer no consequences to Thailand?

I very much doubt anyone would be executed for this nonsense.

[Percy P]

15 hours ago, Rama said:

instead of making wais and asking for forgiveness for not understanding the law, he has chosen to try and make an incident out of it. Even if he 'won' in some international court (after many years) he will be blacklisted by immigration which would break off his access to his seastead. Not a very rational or thought out plan (but the seastead isn't either, and neither is 'investing' in bitcoins).

Well the two go together.

[Grusa]

I think you have all misjudged this guy, and his motives. Look carefully at the structure. The sea off Phuket is merely a convenient place, near the equator and with cheap skilled labour (????), to build the thing. 

Actually, it is a habitat for the moon, and it sits on top of the ballistic missile, stolen from N Korea, which will get it there in no time at all. The Thai have nothing to worry about, it will be gone soon.

555

[Caldera]

Since he's rich and hired a lawyer, I guess they can ultimately settle on the whole thing being a misunderstanding. Donate that contraption to the Royal Thai Navy Academy, a few wais here and a few smiles there, all forgiven...

[natway09]

Navigational hazard YES.

Can you imagine if 1,000 people did the same & a massive storm came through ???

The limited seagoing rescue crews would not save many

[Simon1287]

Ways to stay out of a world of hurt.

 

Rule 1. Don't mess with Asian authorities. 

[Wake Up]

19 hours ago, otherstuff1957 said:

To those who have not spent much time at sea: The territorial limit of any country is 12 nautical miles (about 22km) from its shoreline or less if there is another country less than 24 nautical miles away.  In addition, counties have Exclusive Economic Zones that extend up to 300 nautical miles from their coast.  Anyone can transit through that zone freely under the Freedom of the Seas laws, but they cannot engage in commercial activities, like fishing, mining, salvage, etc., without getting permission from that country.

 

So, either the Thais are trying to claim that a spot 22 miles from their coast is part of their territorial waters, or they are defining "sea-steading" as a commercial activity.  

 

IMHO, the first interpretation would be rather dubious, but the second would probably be upheld in court.

I agree with you. Only to add that all laws are subjective and objective.  When an issue occurs that violates public policy the subjective portion of the law is used to eliminate the issue. 

No way these structures will be allowed to multiply in the oceans near most developed countries. People that read laws literally and expect literal enforcement have never been to law school or do not understand how the legal system works.  ????

[Jack P]

There is no evidence that any legal fiction has any “jurisdiction” at all, inland at sea or anywhere else.

[smudger1951]

For the life of me, why would you want to live in something like that cut off from the amenities of a home on land. ?

[Redline]

It’s not anchored, so just go there and tell them they need to move it a few hundred kilometers away ????

More manufactured drama ????

[gerritkaew]

21 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

The floating structure

So if i'm there with my boat i could also get entered, blacklisted, life in jail and all the other nice things Thai law will do to you?

Do thai got nothing else to do???

 

[rwill]

If the US embassy is helping him that probably means they are contacting the IRS to see if they can get him for tax evasion.

[LivinginKata]

26 minutes ago, gerritkaew said:

So if i'm there with my boat i could also get entered, blacklisted, life in jail and all the other nice things Thai law will do to you?

Do thai got nothing else to do???

 

 

This reminds me of a scary incident on my sail another life time ago. I was anchored up for the night in a remote area in the Balearics. Anchor light on. Fast asleep. Hear someone boarding my boat. Pop head out hatch. A bunch of big guys dressed in black with guns. Turned out to be Spanish Customs special group. Turned my boat over looking for drugs etc. My papers all in order. They were quite polite. They took off in their rubber boat. Then I heard the roar of the big coastal boat racing away. That's life on the sea.   

[LawrenceN]

21 hours ago, otherstuff1957 said:

To those who have not spent much time at sea: The territorial limit of any country is 12 nautical miles (about 22km) from its shoreline or less if there is another country less than 24 nautical miles away.  In addition, counties have Exclusive Economic Zones that extend up to 300 nautical miles from their coast.  Anyone can transit through that zone freely under the Freedom of the Seas laws, but they cannot engage in commercial activities, like fishing, mining, salvage, etc., without getting permission from that country.

 

So, either the Thais are trying to claim that a spot 22 miles from their coast is part of their territorial waters, or they are defining "sea-steading" as a commercial activity.  

 

IMHO, the first interpretation would be rather dubious, but the second would probably be upheld in court.

Thanks for the information. But Koh Racha Yai is part of Thailand, isn't it? Doesn't the 12-mile limit extend from that point outward? How far is the structure from the island?

[onthemoon]

1 hour ago, smudger1951 said:

For the life of me, why would you want to live in something like that cut off from the amenities of a home on land. ?

Just because, I guess.

[onthemoon]

5 hours ago, Kerryd said:

Actually, if you actually looked into it, you would find that he (Chad Elwartowski) has been heavily involved in this project since at least last October. His Facebook claims he started working for Ocean.Builder last February but articles on the website dated to last October were authored by "elwar" who also is the one who responds to comments on the site.

As well, it is stated that he and Nadia would be providing "on site property management".

 

He is NOT "just a tenant". And the Ocean/Builder website is NOT an "authoritative Journal". 

They were planning on selling a lot of these seasteads and were going to offer the first 20 "at cost" (of $150,000 US each - built entirely in Thailand). That is a commercial venture.

Also, if you actually did some research you'd know this isn't the first time they've tried something like this. It seems they previously tried to do it in French Polynesia but for whatever reason (no suckers ?) ended up letting that one "drift away" before trying again in Thai waters.

 

Also, if you actually looked into it, you'd find all sorts of warning flags popping up. Like how they only want payment in Bitcoin (because other payment methods would create problems - like leaving traceable money trails and tax issues). You'd also notice that their website is set up to be as anonymous as possible, with no addresses or business locations noted, no mention of CEOs/Board of Directors or any other details that might reveal details about who they really are (and where they are really operating from). 

Any information requires you to send them a message through their website (so you can't see an email address). They can then decide if they want to respond or not.

Note that it appears their website is registered in Panama as well. Home to a number of companies that specialize in creating "numbered companies" with no way of finding out who actually controls them (unless hackers manage to steal a large hunk of data and publish it like they did back in 2015).

Their "environmental plan" is to dump all their raw sewage into the ocean "where all the whale and dolphin poop goes" (which they say right on their site). But hey ! They are looking into growing edible seaweed too ! 

As for their other garbage, they claim they'll bag it and transport it to shore for disposal. You know. In the country that they think shouldn't have any say in what they do, but they expect to provide them with garbage disposal, shopping, airports, etc. Yeah right. "Oops, sorry darling. Wave knock all garbage bags into ocean." "Darn, that's the 6th time in the last 6 days that has happened ! Sure hope they float far away before spilling their contents into the ocean."

And you can bet they'd expect Thailand to rescue them of course when the next storm comes along that capsizes/sinks all their seasteads. They claim the average waves in the area (off the coast of Phuket) are only .5 meters. This is the same area hit by the tsunami in 2004 and the same (general) area where the storm last July capsized a number of tourist boats including the Phoenix where 49 people died.
(Note that they make no mention of any emergency procedures or safety equipment.)

I wouldn't put a single baht towards this venture and there are probably a lot of people out there that have been saved from losing a fortune. 

Thanks for this. What you say is supported by the website he promotes. I thought we were dealing with a crazy man craving attention in need of professional help. Instead, he is just an unethical business person, trying to make money out of these "seasteads". Nice "new frontier" in terms of business ideas.

 

So, indeed he wants to use the convenience of a country by buying supplies in Thailand and disposing of his garbage here, while not contributing anything of value. Except for his untreated waste water. An under-water restaurant as a tourist attraction will be his contribution? He must be joking. Mostly, he expects to be rescued in the next storm by a country to which he is showing his disrespect.

 

If you anchor there with your boat and are surprised by a storm (because you failed to get the weather report and avoid the area, which is your duty as the captain of a ship), you are not putting yourself in harm's way on purpose. You'll be rescued, no doubt. But that's a different situation.

 

I think he will go away if we stop paying attention to him, and he cannot get to shore to buy his groceries in Thailand because his visa has been revoked. I read in a news report that he has gone hiding in Thailand and cannot be found at the moment (not sure yet whether that's true). In any case he's done.

 

And no, he will not get the death penalty for that stunt, that's unrealistic. 

[Guest]

There are a lot of absurd claims being made by the Thai authorities in this case. Reading through all the media reports, I'm going to reserve judgment because it's not entirely clear *where* the seastead was located, and the Thais are pushing back against the couple's claim that it's outside Thai waters.

 

But overall, the preliminary takeaway is that the Thais are both abusing their authority and completely tone deaf from a PR perspective. My favorite quote so far was from Phuket News, which wrote that the couple "aimed to set up a permanent shelter out of any state territories by exploiting a loophole in the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea." Oh, by "loophole" do you mean...fundamental international law? You mean a treaty that Thailand signed? So if the Chinese authorities started investigating me for counterrevolutionary statements, I'd be "exploiting a loophole" by pointing out that I'm 11 time zones away and not in their territory? I guess national borders are just loopholes. My bad.

[onthemoon]

10 minutes ago, GrumblesMcGee said:

There are a lot of absurd claims being made by the Thai authorities in this case. Reading through all the media reports, I'm going to reserve judgment because it's not entirely clear *where* the seastead was located, and the Thais are pushing back against the couple's claim that it's outside Thai waters.

 

But overall, the preliminary takeaway is that the Thais are both abusing their authority and completely tone deaf from a PR perspective. My favorite quote so far was from Phuket News, which wrote that the couple "aimed to set up a permanent shelter out of any state territories by exploiting a loophole in the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea." Oh, by "loophole" do you mean...fundamental international law? You mean a treaty that Thailand signed? So if the Chinese authorities started investigating me for counterrevolutionary statements, I'd be "exploiting a loophole" by pointing out that I'm 11 time zones away and not in their territory? I guess national borders are just loopholes. My bad.

You consider Phuket News a legal authority?

[Bangkok Barry]

20 hours ago, Rama said:

Even if he 'won' in some international court (after many years) he will be blacklisted by immigration which would break off his access to his seastead.

 

If he wins then he would have access to his seastead, wouldn't he? The irrational thought you accuse him of is yours, surely.