Thai navy boards cabin of fugitive 'seasteaders' facing death penalty

[TKDfella]

Okay I may be among the minority here but I think the 'seasteaders' should have thought this one through a bit more. They must have had some idea of what's been going on in the past few years under a junta government and the current 'witch hunt' on the political opposition front. It was bound to happen that having such a structure in the internationally recognized contiguous and economic zone, without prior consultation, that the junta would be on the offensive. I do admit that the death penalty or life sentence is far too excessive a punishment but then with the junta they'll do what they want to do and d**n everyone else. I would have thought a simple warning then boarding/confiscation would have sent the right signals.

[johng50]

16 minutes ago, SiSePuede419 said:

"Bitcoin expert"?  "Trader"? "Chef"? "seastead Pioneer"?

 

So, a loony criminal who sells worthless currency to other people and occasionally cooks a meal or two? ????

 

If you don't want to obey the laws of Thailand, put your "seastead" in the middle of the ocean.

 

Wait.  That would mean they couldn't travel easily to Thailand in order to take advantage of everything Thailand has to offer.

 

Lazy freeloaders. ????????????????????

Oh my god, take advantage of everything thailand has to offer, mmm corruption, smog and unlivable areas, dirty streets and turd infested beaches, road carnage, nose picking bar girls with lice ridden hair and bodies, violence against foreiners (unless your chinese), street gangs of youths, higher prices for farangs, now according to the world health organisation the leading country of untreatable gonarhea. wow arent they the lucky ones. (probably missed a few hundred other negatives) cant think of any positives at this times either, but im trying to.

[DPKANKAN]

2 hours ago, anterian said:

I thought Thailand likes to be a hub, seasteading is a trending concept, Thailand should be embracing it, building and servicing seasteads. 

You will be able to buy them on Lazada next month!! ????????????????????????

[AlQaholic]

"Beyond the 12-nautical-mile (22 km) limit, there is a further 12 nautical miles (22 km) from the territorial sea baseline limit, the contiguous zone, in which a state can continue to enforce laws in four specific areas: customs, taxation, immigration and pollution, if the infringement started within the state's territory or territorial waters, or if this infringement is about to occur within the state's territory or territorial waters.^[10] This makes the contiguous zone a hot pursuit area."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_the_Law_of_the_Sea

[AGareth2]

is this an act of piracy?

[rocketdave]

With Trump as Commander in Chief of the US armed forces I would be a trifle hesitant at taking such strong arm tactics against any US citizen.

[Srikcir]

5 hours ago, rooster59 said:

A Thai navy task force on Saturday inspected the floating home

 

5 hours ago, rooster59 said:

The Thai navy on Saturday boarded the floating cabin of a fugitive U.S. citizen and his Thai girlfriend

 

5 hours ago, rooster59 said:

The navy said it had evidence that the floating home was built in a private boatyard

 

5 hours ago, rooster59 said:

"I was free for a moment. Probably the freest person in the world," Elwartowski posted on Facebook on April 13, days before the Thai navy raided his vessel.

Note: I have added bold emphasis to the above to make the following comments.

The so-called "seastead" is a sea-going vessel, no different than a sailboat or trawler. It is not permanently anchored to the sea floor as one would expect with a sea-going vessel. Thai authorities have referred to the seastead as a "structure" that seems an attempt to associate it with a platform such as an oil rig but in fact it's not functionally different from the superstructure of a seagoing vessel.

5 hours ago, rooster59 said:

But Thai authorities say the structure is in its 200-mile exclusive economic zone

Thai authorities admit that the seastead does not lie within Thailand's "territorial waters" wherein Thailand has sovereignty to control transit of foreign sea-going vessels.

As an aside I believe it's disputable that the seastead is 14 nautical miles off the west coast of the Thai island of Phuket as it appears to be located 12+ nautical miles southeast of the Thai island of Ko Racha Yai which places its location further away from the Thai mainland.

An EEZ does not prevent freedom navigation of foreign vessels under international law UNCLOS. The subject seastead is merely under transit (albeit very slowly). There's no speed requirement for vessels and generally no violation for pausing progress through an EEZ.

5 hours ago, rooster59 said:

The navy said it had evidence that the floating home was built in a private boatyard in Phuket and the couple wanted to establish a "permanent settlement at sea beyond the sovereignty of nations by using a legal loophole".

5 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Thai authorities say the structure is in its 200-mile exclusive economic zone

What the Thai authorities believe is the seasteader's intent is not evidence and in fact permancy has yet to occur by the Thai Navy's own observation to TOW the seastead to the mainland.

Thailand's sovereign right in the EEZ (presuming the current seastead location actually does fall within the EEZ) is protection of the resources within the economic zone for Thailand's exclusive right to develop and use. (I suggest reading The Exclusive Economic Zone as a Concept in International Law by J. C. Phillips https://www.jstor.org/stable/758725?read-now=1&seq=12#page_scan_tab_contents )

 

However, the seateaders have posted in social media that they are relying on harvesting sealife and plants to sustain themselves. That private plundering of Thailand's EEZ is a violation of the EEZ just as do unauthorized foreign fishing vessels (ie., Cambodia, Vietnam) that net fish in Thailand's EEZ waters! The seasteaders should reimburse Thailand for their harvests, pay a penalty for their unauthorized activities and continue their transit immediately out of the EEZ. But a death penalty? Thailand has never to my recall put any fisherman to death for illegally fishing in Thai waters.

Furthermore, the seasteaders may also be damaging the EEZ through human pollution if all human, seafood and vessel wastes are not retained ON THE VESSEL for proper landfall disposal. Again that might merit a financial penalty. But a death penalty?

 

If Thailand truly respects International Law, it should carefully and FAIRLY gather all facts, thoroughly understand the relevant international laws that Thailand allegedly adheres to and not just focus on elements that support a preconceived conviction.

 

Edited April 21, 2019 by Srikcir
add closed paranthesis

[PhoSai]

Well when you havent got anything to show militarily for 100 years, anything will do.

Edited April 21, 2019 by PhoSai

[farq]

12 minutes ago, AlQaholic said:

"Beyond the 12-nautical-mile (22 km) limit, there is a further 12 nautical miles (22 km) from the territorial sea baseline limit, the contiguous zone, in which a state can continue to enforce laws in four specific areas: customs, taxation, immigration and pollution, if the infringement started within the state's territory or territorial waters, or if this infringement is about to occur within the state's territory or territorial waters.^[10] This makes the contiguous zone a hot pursuit area."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_the_Law_of_the_Sea

That's the Convention that the US ignores at their own convenience and has not ratified but uses as an excuse to stir up the Chinese in the South China Sea.

[PhoSai]

Just now, Srikcir said:

 

 

 

Note: I have added bold emphasis to the above to make the following comments.

The so-called "seastead" is a sea-going vessel, no different than a sailboat or trawler. It is not permanently anchored to the sea floor as one would expect with a sea-going vessel. Thai authorities have referred to the seastead as a "structure" that seems an attempt to associate it with a platform such as an oil rig but in fact it's not functionally different from the superstructure of a seagoing vessel.

Thai authorities admit that the seastead does not lie within Thailand's "territorial waters" wherein Thailand has sovereignty to control transit of foreign sea-going vessels.

As an aside I believe it's disputable that the seastead is 14 nautical miles off the west coast of the Thai island of Phuket as it appears to be located 12+ nautical miles southeast of the Thai island of Ko Racha Yai which places its location further away from the Thai mainland.

An EEZ does not prevent freedom navigation of foreign vessels under international law UNCLOS. The subject seastead is merely under transit (albeit very slowly). There's no speed requirement for vessels and generally no violation for pausing progress through an EEZ.

What the Thai authorities believe is the seasteader's intent is not evidence and in fact permancy has yet to occur by the Thai Navy's own observation to TOW the seastead to the mainland.

Thailand's sovereign right in the EEZ (presuming the current seastead location actually does fall within the EEZ) is protection of the resources within the economic zone for Thailand's exclusive right to develop and use. (I suggest reading The Exclusive Economic Zone as a Concept in International Law by J. C. Phillips https://www.jstor.org/stable/758725?read-now=1&seq=12#page_scan_tab_contents )

 

However, the seateaders have posted in social media that they are relying on harvesting sealife and plants to sustain themselves. That private plundering of Thailand's EEZ is a violation of the EEZ just as do unauthorized foreign fishing vessels (ie., Cambodia, Vietnam) that net fish in Thailand's EEZ waters! The seasteaders should reimburse Thailand for their harvests, pay a penalty for their unauthorized activities and continue their transit immediately out of the EEZ. But a death penalty? Thailand has never to my recall put any fisherman to death for illegally fishing in Thai waters.

Furthermore, the seasteaders may also be damaging the EEZ through human pollution if all human, seafood and vessel wastes are not retained ON THE VESSEL for proper landfall disposal. Again that might merit a financial penalty. But a death penalty?

 

If Thailand truly respects International Law, it should carefully and FAIRLY gather all facts, thoroughly understand the relevant international laws that Thailand allegedly adheres to and not just focus on elements that support a preconceived conviction.

 

Thailand is the centre of the universe, there are only Thai rules. Didnt you go to school ?!

[yellowboat]

Itchy trigger fingers in command. It is a stunt not deserving of more than a fine and a big dinner on him.   If were the Chinese, it would just be a big misunderstanding.  

[finnishmen]

thai navy and thai law not have anythink right go to out of thai borden in sea, thais has idiot and do lot all what normal human not newer do. thai navy must keep out near men own house. but anyway all idea have stupid build house center at nothing in sea.

[Blue Water Sailor]

True freedom on in this world is almost impossible to attain. At least right now. The closest you can get to it is sailing the worlds oceans. But you still have to put in somewhere at some point. Not only that but your ties to the banks. I'm trying to find a way but its proving to be very difficult. Might can get close though,will have to see. I guess I just dont want to a part of this totally controlled world. Some people like it, I dont. Right now it's what we've got so we have to try and make the best of it. Freedom, yeah right.

[mindfulness]

... be warned ! Never ever apply logic in Thailand. It will only provide them to purchase paracetamol, asking logical rational reasoning to be applied is somewhat like asking a fish to climb a tree. There has never been any from birth, it’s to much to take in. 

[hotchilli]

6 hours ago, rooster59 said:

"Once the sea house reaches the shore, the owner of this house can come to inspect it, as well as come forward to the Thai authorities in order to prove themselves in the legal process," he said.

Should have done this from the start, could have simply knocked on the owners door and ask what they were trying to achieve, take notes then pursue normal channels of investigation.
But this is Thailand... right from the start say they faced the death penalty (just to put them at ease) 

then wonder why they fled?

Diplomacy obviously got lost in translation!

[mindfulness]

3 hours ago, anterian said:

I thought Thailand likes to be a hub, seasteading is a trending concept, Thailand should be embracing it, building and servicing seasteads. 

LOL ! yes they’ll do it but only within their 12 nautical mile zone. 

Sheesh ! One would of thought that 14 nautical miles out they’re understand but hey ho, no as they probably have no maritime lawyers who have any iota. 

 

The legal system seems to be just like all all other trades, just make it up to suit along the way. It’s like a make believe game but for adults with sick ways, sick punishments, and sick outcomes. 

 

Something sure is sick when the ratio of cases found to be not guilty by trial is less than 3% 

 

Well that’s unless that system is so near perfect, sick ! 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2019 by mindfulness
Typo spelling

[Ggeorge]

While the death penalty threat is certainly overkill, I happen to agree with Thailand's intent.  If the sea can essentially be homesteaded, then what is to stop China from erecting hundreds if not thousands of these of the South China Sea? As I am sure everyone knows, that area is extremely contentious; in fact, it has been suggested that, if WWIII is to start, then it just may occur due to nations competing for that area's bounty.  Call me a conspiracy nut, but when I lived in Okinawa (twice) it was clear that China was behind the constant demonstrating against the American presence there. The demonstrators were being paid.  By whom?  Take a guess. 

[Derek B]

So what would the Thai Navy do if someone started to build a man made island 1 nautical mile outwith the 200 mile exclusive economic zone?

 

[timendres]

41 minutes ago, Blue Water Sailor said:

True freedom on in this world is almost impossible to attain. At least right now. The closest you can get to it is sailing the worlds oceans. But you still have to put in somewhere at some point. Not only that but your ties to the banks. I'm trying to find a way but its proving to be very difficult. Might can get close though,will have to see. I guess I just dont want to a part of this totally controlled world. Some people like it, I dont. Right now it's what we've got so we have to try and make the best of it. Freedom, yeah right.

Free your mind. The rest is triviality.

[timendres]

1 minute ago, Derek B said:

So what would the Thai Navy do if someone started to build a man made island 1 nautical mile outwith the 200 mile exclusive economic zone?

Their ships can't go that far out...

[timendres]

6 hours ago, rooster59 said:

"I was free for a moment. Probably the freest person in the world," Elwartowski posted on Facebook on April 13, days before the Thai navy raided his vessel.

OMG "Nutter" does not even begin to encompass...

[chilli42]

Why even mention the death penalty. Under no set of circumstances is that ever going to happen.  What will happen is that they will get a hefty towing bill from the Thai navy.

[wazzupnow]

how stupid can you be trying anything new close to thailand,? what they do not know is forbidden in advance

[the guest]

1 hour ago, johng50 said:

Oh my god, take advantage of everything thailand has to offer, mmm corruption, smog and unlivable areas, dirty streets and turd infested beaches, road carnage, nose picking bar girls with lice ridden hair and bodies, violence against foreiners (unless your chinese), street gangs of youths, higher prices for farangs, now according to the world health organisation the leading country of untreatable gonarhea. wow arent they the lucky ones. (probably missed a few hundred other negatives) cant think of any positives at this times either, but im trying to.

Thailand has Chinese and Russian tourists so I don't think they care so much about the other nationals.

[Ctkong]

5 hours ago, toenail said:

I think of all the different concerns the Thai Navy should spend their energy on and this seems to be a big issue to them—What about catching fishing boats using forced labor? What about stopping cargo  ships and boats that dump their trash into the sea? What about checking tourist boats for safety? What about checking to see the floating tsunami buoys are all operating out at sea???...so many other things to worry about. 

(Ok, just remove the floating obstacle and get on with your responsibilities.)

All these incidents are not so ‘in your face’ impunity to Thailand and also this seasteading program should be nipped at the bud before it manifest into a larger problem in the near future. They were promoting the lifestyle online seeking more members. 

[raccos21]

The Thai government should look at the positive side because maybe this person is trying to promote tourism by building a seastead. In the same time he wants Thailand to be the first country to build seasteads. Some time you beed to think out of the box.  Don’t think too shallow and negatively.

[sambum]

4 hours ago, shy coconut said:

Who has died for these activities?

Just add the word "possible" before "death" and the threat of it becomes more apparent. In the same way as drug traffickers and murderers face the death penalty, but very few are actually executed.

[Razek]

6 hours ago, YetAnother said:

thailand does not have to try hard to be an international laughingstock, over and over

First he is Polonish with americain citizen . 2d he is from the bitcoins Mafia  .. 3d he is a spion .and he can built it in ponland if he want

[lvr181]

4 hours ago, anterian said:

I thought Thailand likes to be a hub, seasteading is a trending concept, Thailand should be embracing it, building and servicing seasteads. 

They are a hub - just that the wheels have fallen off!

[CanuckThai]

How dare a farang muck up, the new hub (aka Thai Petticoat or TP) plans.

 

Thai Navy is on their way, the "lady buoys" are kitted up, and the pink subs are outfitted....

 

Edited April 21, 2019 by CanuckThai
penmanship