Health insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners in Thailand

[JetsetBkk]

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

On 5/16/2019 at 10:31 AM, Deerculler said:

Like most here I am s little confused.
I have been here for nine years.

I am on the O-A extension. The said extension due again next August 27.

Is the insurance required for the extension?


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Are you sure about that? I am not sure O
-A even existed 9 years ago.

It did in 2002.

[marcusarelus]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I'm pretty sure the O-A did exist nine years ago and before that as well. It would be interesting to know exactly what year it started though. 

Got mine in 2005

[JetsetBkk]

2 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Got mine in 2005

Beat you by 3 years.  ???? 

 

Any more offers?

[JetsetBkk]

What are the chances that Immigration/MFA really ARE saying that only NEW O-A Visas require the health insurance?

Would they really consider that existing retirees who are here on Extensions of Stay should be allowed to "self-insure" since that is what most of us old geezers curently do? (OK, I know some well-off old geezers who have BUPA and some who are ex-US Forces and have pensions and health insurance.)

But would they (Immi/MFA) really be so considerate as to let us existing retirees on extensions carry on as before and run off (or die) without paying our bills?

BTW, I always have paid my bills.

Edited May 18, 2019 by JetsetBkk
Add: (or die)

[brewsterbudgen]

What are the chances that Immigration/MFA really ARE saying that only NEW O-A Visas require the health insurance?
Would they really consider that existing retirees who are here on Extensions of Stay should be allowed to "self-insure" since that is what most of us old geezers curently do? (OK, I know some well-off old geezers who have BUPA and some who are ex-US Forces and have pensions and health insurance.)
But would they (Immi/MFA) really be so considerate as to let us existing retirees on extensions carry on as before and run off (or die) without paying our bills?
BTW, I always have paid my bills.

Seeing as they only refer to OA visas and don't mention Extensions, I'd say that it's pretty clear!

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[JetsetBkk]

1 minute ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Seeing as they only refer to OA visas and don't mention Extensions, I'd say that it's pretty clear!

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I find that quite amazing. There must be a lot of old geezers on extensions after arriving on O-A visas and O visas that will be getting ill or dying soon who will - according to the hospital financial people - be running off without paying their bills.

 

In a way it's disappointing, if true, because I really need an excuse to get some decent health insurance and this would be the push that makes me do it. Otherwise I'll just keep paying each bill as it arrives.

[MrMuddle]

There was another thread on this topic, where it was stated that this was only for people with new O-A visas. Has this now changed to all retirees, who I believe are on O visas?
I renewed my retirement last week, nothing mentioned about this by the immigration office.

Edited May 18, 2019 by MrMuddle
grammar correction

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, MrMuddle said:

There was another thread on this where it was stated that this was only for people with new O-A visas. Has this now changed to all retirees ?
I renewed my retirement last week, nothing mentioned about this by the immigration office.

UbonJoe has posted repeatedly that it is for new O-A visa applications in home countries ONLY.

So you can believe his reading if you want.

Others (including me) hear the published announcement saying that it included RENEWALS as possibly meaning that annual extensions based on retirement in Thailand would be included as well, if not in July, then possibly later.

Some have pedantically said that you can't renew a visa but in reality many people (expats, visa agencies, immigration officers, etc.) have been calling annual extensions "renewals" for many years. It's widely and commonly understood to mean extensions even if it is technically an incorrect way to say it.  

So if you're looking for 100 percent certainty going forward, my opinion is that is not possible to give as YET. 

Edited May 18, 2019 by Jingthing

[marcusarelus]

29 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Seeing as they only refer to OA visas and don't mention Extensions, I'd say that it's pretty clear!

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Saowapa Jongkittipong, who leads the Health Service Support Department’s International Health Division, said yesterday.  "Current holders of this visa will have to produce proof of their health insurance for visa renewal"

 

Visa renewal = Extension. 

 

https://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30369468

 

Since none of the policies for the original O-A visa are written in the Thai language these policies must be translated into Thai before approval.  I'd estimate hiring 3 to 500 more highly paid personal to scrutinize these policies and arrive at a decision. 

Edited May 18, 2019 by marcusarelus

[marcusarelus]

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

UbonJoe has posted repeatedly that it is for new O-A visa applications in home countries ONLY.

So you can believe his reading if you want.

Others (including me) hear the published announcement saying that it included RENEWALS as possibly meaning that annual extensions based on retirement in Thailand would be included as well, if not in July, then possibly later.

Some have pedantically said that you can't renew a visa but in reality many people (expats, visa agencies, immigration officers, etc.) have been calling annual extensions "renewals" for many years. It's widely and commonly understood to mean extensions even if it is technically an incorrect way to say it.  

So if you're looking for 100 percent certainty going forward, my opinion is that is not possible to give as YET. 

I have found it interesting that the insurance representatives in the Thai Visa Insurance forum (who obviously know the correct answer) after being asked repeatedly have not committed one way or the other.  In most things the correct answer is gleaned by following the money and if one asks who will make money from this policy the answer is obvious. 

 

The old men and women don't run out on bills, - heck they can hardly walk - it's the illegal workers from Burma, Laos and Cambodia who are not registered with Thai SS who run up the bills.  Doesn't take a weather man to tell which way the wind is blowing now does it?  Insurance brokers I'd imagine are the major ones to get rich as it will be a large source of new income. 

 

Edited May 18, 2019 by marcusarelus

[Sheryl]

There has been no mention of O visas.

 

And it is clear that to get an O-A visa one will now have to show proof of insurance.

 

Where there is lack of clarity is in the reference to visa "renewal" and whether this means getting a subsequent O-A visa abroad or getting an extension of stay within Thailand having entered on an O-A. Neither of these are actual "visa renewals" so it is anyone's guess what was meant.

 

If what they mean is getting subsequent (new) O-A visas then the whole requirement pertains only to visas issued by Embassies/Consulates in your home country and will not involve TI, the instructions will go out through MoFA to the Embassies and Consulates. (And lord knows how these will go about sorting out the various terms of foreign insurance policies to see if they comply with this idiotic 400/40 business).

 

If what is meant is extensions of stay for people who entered on O-A visa that is a whole other matter, affecting a lot of people long resident here and would need a police order going out to IOs.

 

 

[Searat7]

I'm pretty sure the O-A did exist nine years ago and before that as well. It would be interesting to know exactly what year it started though. 

I got my first O-A visa in 2006 after 2 years of tourist visas. As I recall I could have started with O-A in 2004 but was not spending so much time there during first 2 years and multiple entry tourist visas were available then. Will get my last O-A visa in Washington next month. Will revert to METV in future years, spending less time in Thailand.


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[marcusarelus]

15 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

There has been no mention of O visas.

 

And it is clear that to get an O-A visa one will now have to show proof of insurance.

 

Where there is lack of clarity is in the reference to visa "renewal" and whether this means getting a subsequent O-A visa abroad or getting an extension of stay within Thailand having entered on an O-A. Neither of these are actual "visa renewals" so it is anyone's guess what was meant.

 

If what they mean is getting subsequent (new) O-A visas then the whole requirement pertains only to visas issued by Embassies/Consulates in your home country and will not involve TI, the instructions will go out through MoFA to the Embassies and Consulates. (And lord knows how these will go about sorting out the various terms of foreign insurance policies to see if they comply with this idiotic 400/40 business).

 

If what is meant is extensions of stay for people who entered on O-A visa that is a whole other matter, affecting a lot of people long resident here and would need a police order going out to IOs.

 

I don't think you can get a subsequent O-A visa abroad.  That would be an extension, wouldn't it?

[brewsterbudgen]

I don't think you can get a subsequent O-A visa abroad.  That would be an extension, wouldn't it?

No. It would be a new visa. Visas cannot be extended. Only Permission to Stay stamps can.

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[Pib]

5 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I don't think you can get a subsequent O-A visa abroad.  That would be an extension, wouldn't it?

Sure...you can go back to the home country and get another O-A Visa.  Or, you can stay in Thailand and simply do an Extension of Stay.

[Jingthing]

33 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

There has been no mention of O visas.

 

And it is clear that to get an O-A visa one will now have to show proof of insurance.

 

Where there is lack of clarity is in the reference to visa "renewal" and whether this means getting a subsequent O-A visa abroad or getting an extension of stay within Thailand having entered on an O-A. Neither of these are actual "visa renewals" so it is anyone's guess what was meant.

 

If what they mean is getting subsequent (new) O-A visas then the whole requirement pertains only to visas issued by Embassies/Consulates in your home country and will not involve TI, the instructions will go out through MoFA to the Embassies and Consulates. (And lord knows how these will go about sorting out the various terms of foreign insurance policies to see if they comply with this idiotic 400/40 business).

 

If what is meant is extensions of stay for people who entered on O-A visa that is a whole other matter, affecting a lot of people long resident here and would need a police order going out to IOs.

 

 

Yes, we have not seen any press release that explicitly suggests or hints that extensions for people that started with an O visa (rather than an O-A) may be under this new requirement.

 

But thinking this through IF it does turn out that people doing extensions that started with an O-A are under the rule, in what Cloud Cuckooland universe would people that started with O's not be included?

 

For example over 10 years ago I got my original O and have  been extending ever since. I could just have easily started with an O-A back then. 

As I've stated numerous times and it's true applying for an annual extension based on retirement is EXACTLY the same whether you started with an O or an O-A.

 

I know "logic" isn't always something to be expected here, but really it stretches credibility that people that started with an O wouldn't be under this rule as well, that is IF the people that started with O-As turn out to be. 

 

My take on all this at this point is simply UNCERTAINTY. I do have a theory though as to how the communications could have been messed up regarding O-A in the release saying renewals of O-A would be included. That theory is that sometimes people call everything to do with retirement status here O-A. Incorrect yes, but not uncommon.

 

For examples,

O visas if used as a start towards an extension

O-A visas obviously

"Renewal" of O-A visas when said to mean extensions. I have read people call that O-A renewal many times over the years when they never had an O-A visa!

Edited May 18, 2019 by Jingthing

[marcusarelus]

13 minutes ago, Pib said:

Sure...you can go back to the home country and get another O-A Visa.  Or, you can stay in Thailand and simply do an Extension of Stay.

She said "get a subsequent O-A visa Abroad."  And you have to go home to get it so you would not be abroad.  

[JetsetBkk]

33 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

48 minutes ago, Pib said:

Sure...you can go back to the home country and get another O-A Visa.  Or, you can stay in Thailand and simply do an Extension of Stay.

She said "get a subsequent O-A visa Abroad."  And you have to go home to get it so you would not be abroad.  

Ha, ha, very funny.

Abroad = not in Thailand

go home = not in Thailand

So if you "go home" you are "Abroad".

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, JetsetBkk said:

Ha, ha, very funny.

Abroad = not in Thailand

go home = not in Thailand

So if you "go home" you are "Abroad".

I think the point is the guy said renew an O-A visa.  So either you think he knows absolutely nothing or he meant extension.  Which is the more likely state of absence knowledge of Visas?

[daveAustin]

It would be illogical that not all long-termers would be caught with this. Whether O, OA, extension of stay, having this or that paperwork isn't going to make someone immune from sickness/accidents and potentially 'running away from hospital'. I'd certainly be making contingency plans.

[JetsetBkk]

51 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

57 minutes ago, JetsetBkk said:

Ha, ha, very funny.

Abroad = not in Thailand

go home = not in Thailand

So if you "go home" you are "Abroad".

I think the point is the guy said renew an O-A visa.  So either you think he knows absolutely nothing or he meant extension.  Which is the more likely state of absence knowledge of Visas?

I think the guy meant that if you go home before your O-A visa expires, e.g. after 11 months, and then start the process again, e.g. after another couple of months, to get another O-A visa, then you would have to get health insurance. But who would do that? An extension is simpler - get it before you go home and get a re-entry permit to keep the Permit to Stay active.

 

But now a lot of posters think he actually meant "get a new visa". Initially I thought he meant "get an extension" as these terms are often conflated, but now I'm not so sure. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if all one year extensions based on age would need the health insurance. It would be incredibly considerate of them - and illogical - to make this health insurance requirement for new O-A visas only.

 

[Tanoshi]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

UbonJoe has posted repeatedly that it is for new O-A visa applications in home countries ONLY.

And he is absolutely 100% correct.

[Tanoshi]

4 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

I have found it interesting that the insurance representatives in the Thai Visa Insurance forum (who obviously know the correct answer) after being asked repeatedly have not committed one way or the other.  In most things the correct answer is gleaned by following the money and if one asks who will make money from this policy the answer is obvious. 

Then you missed their answer in post 341 on page 90 of this thread.

 

Quote

There also seems to be a lot of confusion as to who this applies to.  I thought it would be courteous to provide some info we have provided to our existing client base and brokers.  We have been inundated with inquiries, I will try to post more as I know, if anyone needs any help please email [email protected]. 

 

To Business Partners,

The purpose of writing to you is to update you on the status of the above visa requirements for foreigners.  

 

Pacific Cross has approval from the Immigration Department office to provide products in support of a "long stay" visa applicant for both types 1 year O-A, and 10 Year O-X.  However at this stage only the O-X 10 Year Visa minimum insurance requirements have been determined and a copy of these rules are shown below.

 

In line with this Pacific Cross has developed three "Long Stay" insurance plans to support the O-X 10 Year Visa applications.  These plans are know as Platinum 1, Platinum 2, Platinum 3, please note that only these plans from Pacific Cross are accepted by the Immigration Department at this point in time.

 

As previously intimated the insurance requirements for the O-A (1 Year Visa) have not yet been determined therefore please reassure your clients not to panic unnecessarily.  Policy holders may need to upgrade their plans so for us Pacific Cross Health Insurance we are working on how such changes will be accommodated.

 

[Deerculler]

I find that quite amazing. There must be a lot of old geezers on extensions after arriving on O-A visas and O visas that will be getting ill or dying soon who will - according to the hospital financial people - be running off without paying their bills.
 
In a way it's disappointing, if true, because I really need an excuse to get some decent health insurance and this would be the push that makes me do it. Otherwise I'll just keep paying each bill as it arrives.
Are you really waiting for others to be pushed over the cliff before you decide? Seriously?


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[Jingthing]

And he is absolutely 100% correct.

Based on what?

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[Maestro]

Removed a troll post and the reply to it.

[Tanoshi]

12 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Based on what?

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Based on news reports terms, such as 'long stay' and 'Visas'.

'long term' relates to specific Visa types.

'Visas' are only issued by Thai Embassies/Consulates.

Edited May 18, 2019 by Tanoshi

[Jingthing]

Based on news reports terms, such as 'long stay' and 'Visas'.

'long term' relates to specific Visa types.

'Visas' are only issued by Thai Embassies/Consulates.

What about the news report about renewals?

I don't understand why just because Ubonjoe says something that we're supposed to always accept that as gospel truth.

This is a very new thing and it seems to me that objectively there is still some level of uncertainty.

It would be very different if we were discussing a well established issue with hundreds of case reports.

Why the rush to demand certainty on such a new thing that hasn't even started yet for any class of visa or extension?

You can't rush it if it doesn't exist.

 

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[Maestro]

3 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

I don't think you can get a subsequent O-A visa abroad.  That would be an extension, wouldn't it?

Yes, you can get a subsequent O-A visa abroad. Before your permission to stay based on your entry on the O-A ends, leave Thailand and go to  a Thai embassy or consulate that will issue this visa to you. This will probably be the place where you received your previous visa.

[brewsterbudgen]

What about the news report about renewals?I don't understand why just because Ubonjoe says something that we're supposed to always accept that as gospel truth.

This is a very new thing and it seems to me that objectively there is still some level of uncertainty.

It would be very different if we were discussing a well established issue with hundreds of case reports.

Why the rush to demand certainty on such a new thing that hasn't even started yet for any class of visa or extension?

You can't rush it if it doesn't exist.

 

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Except the insurance requirement is not new as it already exists for the other "long-stay" visa (OX) so it's not illogical for the other long-stay visa to have the same requirement. Extensions of Stay are completely different.

 

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