Need explanation how Thai law is working if you broke something in store (not intentionally)

[PerkinsCuthbert]

27 minutes ago, khunPer said:

Take better care of the kids in the future, and make sure they have a third party liability insurance, which the might have included in some travel insurances. They can try, if they can claim the money back from an insurance by showing the bill, and the damage acceptance form. 

 

If you, or your kids, or pets, brake or damage something, its your responsibility; that's why insurance companies sells "third party liability insurance".

????

Not brake failure again....

[khunPer]

6 minutes ago, PerkinsCuthbert said:

Not brake failure again....

Ops, thanks for correcting me – I'm not native English speaking – "broke" or "break"; however "brake failure" might have cleared the case much easier...????

[clearance]

Little update:

They just watched the video (administration prohibited any phone recording). Kid is not running, he just going backwards and bumping the mannequin, it fall and arm was separated from it. However they decide to not argue with H&M, vacation is ruined a bit already and they don't want to waste any more time.

$800 for typical russian family is kinda big money, they making around $1500 in a month for family with 3 kids. They will try to get insurance after trip.

Edited May 16, 2019 by clearance

[geisha]

Mannequins are  expensive ,a known fact to anyone’s who has a shop. That said, sounds a lot for thailand. On the other hand, kids are often badly behaved when out , parents fault. They get bored.Ive seen a waiter fall over a kid that darted off his chair in a restaurant, plates of food flying everywhere and he hurt himself slipping. The family  said sorry and left the restaurant. One of my neighbours has a very chic dress shop, she was literally screamed at by  rude  mothers when she asked them not to bring their kids in eating ice cream ! How about the couple with their screaming child who spoilt our evening meal out, and all the other clients ? Fault is often put on  business owners when all it is is bad parenting. 

[samuttodd]

rule #1   Never sign anything until you have had an attorney look it over,  or know exactly what you are putting your name on.

 

#2   Watch the tape BEFORE you pay for damages

 

#3  if you must pay for something such as this,  use a credit card so you can dispute the charges.

 

#4  Bad things happen just as much when you are on vacation as they do in the real world. 

[LukKrueng]

17 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Regardless, 25,000 baht (£620 / $800) is extortion, I'm also quite sure an international chain such as H&M would have insurance to cover such things. 

 

If the charge was paid in cash it makes it all the more suspicious that someone would pocket the money. 

If they have insurance or not is irrelevant. It didn't fall on its own - the kid waled backwards and knocked it over. as for the price - here's something I found on google:

Because don't forget — if this is all about finances, mannequins are expensive. “Typical department store mannequins can cost, on average, $500 to 900, and it can cost $150 just to repair a joint on a broken mannequin, so some department stores actually refer to them as 'assets,'” Divita says.Jun 28, 2017

 

As for their payment - they received a receipt detailing exactly what they paid for (the original poster posted it a while after the original post) so no one "pocketed" the money nor were they charged for anything else.

[richard_smith237]

3 hours ago, clearance said:

Little update:

They just watched the video (administration prohibited any phone recording). Kid is not running, he just going backwards and bumping the mannequin, it fall and arm was separated from it. However they decide to not argue with H&M, vacation is ruined a bit already and they don't want to waste any more time.

$800 for typical russian family is kinda big money, they making around $1500 in a month for family with 3 kids. They will try to get insurance after trip.

If all it took was a kid bumping into the Mannequin for it to fall, then it wasn't properly secured... it was potentially dangerous (could have fallen on others). 

 

Charging the family for this is preposterous and perhaps the reason why those at the store would not permit copying of the video - *social media in such a case could be quite damning for the store.

 

*and I don't mean social media of a bunch of intolerant old farts who think kids should be locked up.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2019 by richard_smith237

[Youlike]

13 hours ago, kenk24 said:

whose list of most countries? Was Thailand in that list? 

 

I go with you broke it you bought it. They probably have to buy an entirely new mannequin, just because kids were playing uncontrolled in their store... if your kids can't behave, they should not be put in a situation in which they can damage other people's property. 

If i had paid it i would also take my mannequin back home with me...i bet she's back in the shop already with a fixed hand.

[1FinickyOne]

11 minutes ago, Youlike said:

If i had paid it i would also take my mannequin back home with me...i bet she's back in the shop already with a fixed hand.

Yes, you would be entitled to take it home, but as a former store owner, think of the trouble you make for the store, they have to go out and buy a new one somewhere and then wait for it... nobody who owns a store wants to have kids running around breaking things... 

[elgenon]

Uh oh! I'm still unhappy that a Thai told me you can't return something and get your money back.

[BobbyL]

So people can be killed on the road and the fine might be only 5k-10k, yet a plastic mannequin is 25k. Incredible. 

[sanemax]

6 minutes ago, BobbyL said:

So people can be killed on the road and the fine might be only 5k-10k, yet a plastic mannequin is 25k. Incredible. 

Two different things .

The cost of replacing the mannequin was 25 K , fines for bad driving is a different situation

[RandolphGB]

Thais taking the p*ss again. They’ll buy x5 new dummies for the price.

 

 

[lamyai3]

I've never heard the "you break it, you buy it" policy apply to a shop's fixtures and fittings, only to items they are selling. Damage to fittings surely would be covered by the store's own insurance and handled in the same manner the multinational company would handle breakages in any one of it's 5000 stores globally - they'd have procedures established for things like this. Sounds almost like the staff used jetski operator tactics to frighten the family with legal action, fines, jail etc. 

 

Options would be to go to the tourist police where they can explain the situation to someone in their own language and file a complaint, explaining that they feel like they've been extorted, and that on returning to their own country intend to take the matter up with H&M senior management.

Another (arguably better) alternative if the family are still here for a while would be to contact the head office management right away by email, as they should be able to intervene if the local store is playing fast and loose with company policy. 

[alacrity]

On 5/15/2019 at 9:50 PM, NCC1701A said:

really? i don't think so. running and playing? you break it, you pay for it. 

Tend to agree. Don't control you kids and expect the store to cover the expense of their lack of supervision is nothing short of arrogance.

Why should others pay for your abrogation. 

[khunPer]

20 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

I've never heard the "you break it, you buy it" policy apply to a shop's fixtures and fittings, only to items they are selling. Damage to fittings surely would be covered by the store's own insurance and handled in the same manner the multinational company would handle breakages in any one of it's 5000 stores globally - they'd have procedures established for things like this. Sounds almost like the staff used jetski operator tactics to frighten the family with legal action, fines, jail etc. 

 

Options would be to go to the tourist police where they can explain the situation to someone in their own language and file a complaint, explaining that they feel like they've been extorted, and that on returning to their own country intend to take the matter up with H&M senior management.

Another (arguably better) alternative if the family are still here for a while would be to contact the head office management right away by email, as they should be able to intervene if the local store is playing fast and loose with company policy. 

This is "amazing" Thailand – you break, you pay – and things might work different here from what one is used to from one's home country; including myself and my home country.

 

Here its more than often a question of paying compensation, if you cause any damage – its for some foreigners well know from traffic accidents – and even there might be insurance, it might be limited, like the mandatory vehicle insurances; i.e. if you rent a vehicle with only mandatory insurance, and something happens, you might still be claimed to pay compensation, even the vehicle was insured.

 

Jetski operators were been a special chapter, where they fairly recently have been demanded a mandatory insurance covering damages by customers; but actually the customer pays for that insurance when renting a jetski, just like you might pay for full insurance when renting a vehicle, either included in the rent, or as a separate item.

 

Going to police in Thailand would often be a matter of settling and pay a compensation.

 

Travelling abroad, and its not only when travelling to Thailand, its important to have a travel insurance with third party liability coverage.

 

[tifino]

Lovely to look at 

Nice to hold 

But if you break it 

Consider it Sold... 

 

Works equally well, no matter where in the world

[lamyai3]

40 minutes ago, khunPer said:

This is "amazing" Thailand – you break, you pay – and things might work different here from what one is used to from one's home country; including myself and my home country.

The difference in this case is it's a multinational, which would have clear procedures in events like these (they may or may not vary locally from country to country). Many such organisations have a farang in charge of operations locally, and H&M is no exception. For sure, motorcycle rent shops, jetski operators, small businesses can make up their own rules and you'd have an uphill task if you got on the wrong side of them, but an international company is a different matter. 

[mommysboy]

Excessive.

 

Since it wasn't willful or malicious damage, I doubt there is even liability.

 

See a lawyer.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by mommysboy

[fhickson]

Looks like they were charged for the whole mannequin.

 

I think if there were witnesses and/or camera footage they are stuck with the bill. Though for that amound i would request to see the cost they paid for the mannequin originally.

 

Could have called tourist police in or mall security and argued that the cost was made up and to high and not realistic for what it costs to replace the item.

[amykat]

https://mannequinmall.com/blogs/posts/how-to-prevent-your-store-mannequins-from-falling-over

[amykat]

After reading the above article, it seems this store might be doing the new jetski scam to some occasional customers whenever one luckily bumps into their setup. No way should one be forced to pay one penny if these are so unstable and can be set up so many different ways where the store would be at fault to begin with.  Impossible to prove the customer could have any fault at all really short of purposely taking it out in a tackle!!!

[sanemax]

Maybe someone could go to the shop to see whether they just glued the hand back on and didnt spend the money on a new one ?

[ukrules]

I hope they took the broken mannequin home with them or I suspect it will be glued back together and balanced on some ledge ready for the next kid to knock over.

 

I've heard a very similar story before. Something about jet skis.

[bbi1]

On 5/15/2019 at 10:01 PM, Isaanbiker said:

Thailand is not Russia and nothing fell on any kids. I hope not too many dummies fall for a child. 

Russians think they can treat Thailand like Russia. I'm guessing from the OP's 2nd post that either he's Russian, his friends that he mentioned is Russian or both!

[clearance]

5 hours ago, bbi1 said:

Russians think they can treat Thailand like Russia. I'm guessing from the OP's 2nd post that either he's Russian, his friends that he mentioned is Russian or both!

No one treat Thailand like Russia, of course you will be comparing your home country to Thailand, it is normal I think.

But it was 6th page of this topic and no answer what actually Thai Law says about it ????

 

 

[sotonowl]

Som nam na, keep control of your kids.

[jak2002003]

When I was younger a worked in a shop.  There were some really bad parents... and if any harm was to come to their children in the shop I bet they would blame the shop.

 

For example, there was a baby in a nappy alone crawling out the automatic shop doors towards the road outside!  The mother was busy shopping out of sight of the baby.

 

Young kids would climb up the shelving units, or onto the displays like they were at a playground... OFTEN.  One knocked over a pile of animal feed sacks and the woman was furious that he kid might have been hurt. Funny how she did not care about the child while she was watching him climb 5 ft off the ground with his brother screaming and laughing, and ignoring her kids running about screaming for the best part of an hour, throwing food off the shelves, kicking stuff about and messing the place up.

 

There was a toddler that ran into the warehouse and bumped his head on a shelf... which the infuriated woman blamed me for and called to see the shop manager to get me into trouble.. despite the fact I was at the other end of the shop and it was me who alerted her to the problem when I left to find the crying child and bring him to her.  Apparently I should have been watching HER child all the time while she talked on her phone to her friend.  

 

In the UK you can't even talk to or touch a child if its lost or on its own in fear of someone saying you are some pervert or abuser.  If I was to tell some kids off for running about or warm them about a danger, you bet the parents would get their back up and have a go at me for upsetting their little darlings. 

 

OP.. the kids were PLAYING and running in a SHOP.  They caused damage to the shops property.  Of course, any normal person would pay up, shout at their kids and explain there were wrong, and then teach them not to play about in shops.

 

But, these days many people don't want to take any personal responsibility for anything, and think its their right to behave as they want with no consideration for other human beings around them.  

[amykat]

OMG Jak2002... you are running wild with your own assumptions and personal biases.  Yes, those things happen and ALSO responsible, nice people walk through stores TOO!  I posted an article about how mannequins are very unstable, some just based on their inherent design flaws and they fall down every day based on that alone.  Reminded me of many dolls I have had on stands over the years for my daughter.  How you place their feet and legs and balance them makes a large difference.  Read it.  Some are top heavy and the base is not weighted well or large enough.  They are not meant to come into contact with people or get bumped.  

 

It it seems to me, that if a store has one in position to get bumped by customers, the store is at fault, that is all.  Pick it up and move along apologize to customers.  I’d be willing to bet this mannequin is in the same place today and that this store has a history of charging people for it.  I would have wondered how the employee knew the price so quickly and the procedure unless it happens often??

 

Most people have made this a topic about annoying kids that bother you without even stopping to consider this might not be the case at all.  

 

My daughter walked into a glass window at Index Living Mall, that looked open to her onto a balcony one day.  If the glass had broken, do you think I should have to pay for it?  She wasn’t running or anything just trying to see the view  ...one of those things that happens sometimes when glass looks totally clear.  She was about ten years old.  

 

If their toliet plugs up while you use it, do you have to pay plumbing bill?  If you spill your drink on the floor of the mall do they give a cleaning charge?  If your car leaks oil in the parking garage?  Where do we draw the line???

[moontang]

Calling the tourist police is the best suggestion I have seen.  I think the amount of extortion going on here has been on the rise, as quality of life stuff is mostly on the decline.  Seen way dumber stuff in The Sun or The Daily Mail.  I would look up the phone number of the CEO and call them. 

 

Stockholm.. https://www.hm.com/th/customer-service/corporate-info/corporate-info/

Edited May 21, 2019 by moontang