How can I obtain PR status(Permanent Residency)

[rimmae2]

23 hours ago, Neeranam said:

You don't need to speak Thai for PR. 

This was not the case a few years ago when I obtained PR. Applicants have an interview with I recall 7 people. Questions at the time were basic conversational Thai such as job, family, hobbies, why you want PR, donations, etc. Applicants fluent in Thai were in and out in a few minutes. Not being as fluent in Thai as some other applicants, I found the main difficulty being that the questions came from all corners, not in a sequence and by people speaking with different 'accents' (the latter being the most problematic).

 

I also know someone who obatined PR and did not speak any Thai apart from a few words - Hello and thank you. He did invest in business so I guess that helped.

[Neeranam]

5 hours ago, rimmae2 said:

This was not the case a few years ago when I obtained PR. Applicants have an interview with I recall 7 people. Questions at the time were basic conversational Thai such as job, family, hobbies, why you want PR, donations, etc. Applicants fluent in Thai were in and out in a few minutes. Not being as fluent in Thai as some other applicants, I found the main difficulty being that the questions came from all corners, not in a sequence and by people speaking with different 'accents' (the latter being the most problematic).

 

I also know someone who obatined PR and did not speak any Thai apart from a few words - Hello and thank you. He did invest in business so I guess that helped.

My main point was that the Thai part of citizenship is not important these days. 

I did get full points for the Thai part. which saved me singing the McDougal anthem and royal song.

If I had points from other areas,  I wouldn't have needed any pints in the Thai part and know of someone who got it recently with his wife transiting everything.

[GroveHillWanderer]

45 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

My main point was that the Thai part of citizenship is not important these days. 

I did get full points for the Thai part. which saved me singing the McDougal anthem and royal song.

If I had points from other areas,  I wouldn't have needed any pints in the Thai part and know of someone who got it recently with his wife transiting everything.

This is what various people seen to be missing. It's a points-based system nowadays. You have to achieve a minimum of a certain number of points before you can qualify. There are points for Thai language skills but you can still reach the minimum points required without getting any points at all for Thai language proficiency. It's just that if you have zero points for Thai language then you need to score correspondingly higher in the other areas to compensate for that.

[ThomasThBKK]

But it's not really point based - even if you get many points they can refuse it.

Happened to my friends...

[Neeranam]

17 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

But it's not really point based - even if you get many points they can refuse it.

Happened to my friends...

Are you talking about PR or citizenship?

 

Citizenship is point based, but you do need to get points for some things, for example you get 15 points for a salary over 40 k,if you get 0 points for this you will not be accepted.

 

Thai Citizenship - Points Allocation (minimum 50/100 required for further consideration) 2010

AGE AND EDUCATION
Age:
20 t0 30 - 2 points
30 to 40 – 5 points
40 to 50 – 10 points
50 to 60 – 8 points
Over 60 – 5 points

Education:
Mor 6 and above – 3 points
Diploma – 5 points
Bachelors Degree – 8 points
Masters Degree – 10 points
Doctrate – 15 points

SECURITY OF PROFESSION
Income (monthly):
80,000 to 90,000 – 15 points
90,000 to 100,000 – 20 points
Over 100,000 – 25 points
OR
Income (monthly) in the case of ethnic minorities 
40,000 to 50,000 – 15 points
50,000 to 60,000 – 20 points
Over 60,000 – 25 points
OR
Income (monthly) in the case of ethnic minorities holding an Alien ID Card for 10 years or more:
20,000 to 30,000 – 15 points
30,000 to 40,000 – 20 points
Over 40,000 – 25 points
OR
Income (monthly) in the case of those married to a Thai national, or having Thai children, or having graduated from high school in Thailand:
40,000 to 50,000 – 15 points
50,000 to 60,000 – 20 points
Over 60,000 – 25 points
OR
Income (monthly) in the case of ethnic minorities married to a Thai national, or having Thai children, or having graduated from high school in Thailand:
20,000 to 30,000 – 15 points
30,000 to 40,000 – 20 points
Over 40,000 – 25 points

Income (monthly) on which tax paid:
80,000 to 100,000 – 15 points
100,000 to 120,000 – 20 points
Over 120,000 – 25 points
OR
Income (monthly) on which tax paid in the case of those married to a Thai national, or having Thai children, or having graduated from high school in Thailand:
40,000 to 60,000 – 15 points
60,000 to 80,000 – 20 points
Over 80,000 – 25 points

RESIDENCE IN THAILAND
Domicile:
Has evidence of civil registration showing domicile in Thailand for at least 5 years but no Certificate of Residence or Alien Registration Certificate – 5 points
Has evidence of civil registration showing domicile in Thailand for at least 5 years and has Certificate of Residence or Alien Registration Certificate for at least 5 years – 10 points
Has evidence of civil registration showing domicile in Thailand for at least 5 years and has Certificate of Residence or Alien Registration Certificate for at least 7 years – 15 points
Has evidence of civil registration showing domicile in Thailand for at least 5 years and has Certificate of Residence or Alien Registration Certificate for at least 10 years – 20 points

KNOWLEDGE OF THAI LANGUAGE
Able to speak and understand spoken Thai – 8 points
Able to speak and understand spoken Thai and sing the National and Royal Anthems – 10 points
Able to speak and understand spoken Thai, sing the National and Royal Anthems, and read Thai – 13 points
Able to speak and understand spoken Thai, sing the National and Royal Anthems, and read and write Thai – 15 points

KNOWLEDGE OF THAILAND
Has a medium level knowledge of Thailand
(1-5 correct answers) – 5 points
Has a good knowledge of Thailand
(6-8 correct answers) – 8 points
Has a very good knowledge of Thailand
(9-10 correct answers) -10 points

PERSONALITY
Assessment based on personality, physical appearance and bearing, speech, Thai manners, attitude towards Thailand, Thai culture and ceremonies - 5 points  

 

[Neeranam]

22 hours ago, rimmae2 said:

This was not the case a few years ago when I obtained PR. Applicants have an interview with I recall 7 people. Questions at the time were basic conversational Thai such as job, family, hobbies, why you want PR, donations, etc. Applicants fluent in Thai were in and out in a few minutes. Not being as fluent in Thai as some other applicants, I found the main difficulty being that the questions came from all corners, not in a sequence and by people speaking with different 'accents' (the latter being the most problematic).

 

I also know someone who obatined PR and did not speak any Thai apart from a few words - Hello and thank you. He did invest in business so I guess that helped.

Indeed, things change with time. My friend got it in the 90's. Then it was more important the money you had or people you knew. One of his friends was Big Jiew, the former PM, due to his work on the Thai/Laos border conflict.

These days, tea money is dangerous and only friends as Ministerial level seem to help.

[jayboy]

11 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Indeed, things change with time. My friend got it in the 90's. Then it was more important the money you had or people you knew. One of his friends was Big Jiew, the former PM, due to his work on the Thai/Laos border conflict.

These days, tea money is dangerous and only friends as Ministerial level seem to help.

Not really.The procedure for PR has been much the same for decades.It is incorrect to suggest that in the 1990's it was all about money or the people you knew.There was a process as now which had to be followed and has been covered multiple times on this forum notably in Camerata's lengthy post a decade or so ago.Obviously since this is Thailand there will be people who found an "informal" way through but these are the exceptions rather than the rule.

 

The consensus over the years was that tea money or any other form of corruption didn't play a significant part.Indeed many commented on the friendly and helpful attitude of Immigration Department without a suggestion of seeking favours.Applicants have of course no contact with the Ministry of the Interior. Sadly I have heard different reports about Immigration in the last two or three years but it's just anecdotal as far as I'm concerned so may or may not be true.

 

I agree with you the question of high level support is tricky - but then it always has been.Many wrongly think that support from senior businessmen will help their case - it doesn't.Politicians/MInisters can be problematic unless careful thought is given to their impact - which could be negative if wrongly chosen.Best to think what might impress a highly conservative and traditional Thai bureaucrat.

 

 

[Thaidream]

20 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Not really.The procedure for PR has been much the same for decades.It is incorrect to suggest that in the 1990's it was all about money or the people you knew.There was a process as now which had to be followed and has been covered multiple times on this forum notably in Camerata's lengthy post a decade or so ago.Obviously since this is Thailand there will be people who found an "informal" way through but these are the exceptions rather than the rule.

If one applies in December- how long before it is approved and then how long before the Interior Minister actually signs off.  

 

If one is on a 1 year extension and that date arrives before the approval of PR is one extended automatically pending decisions or does one have to extend under retirement/marriage.

 

Also, if denied- does the person then get to revert back to their marriage or retirement extension of do they need to leave and apply for a new Non O?

 

If a p

 

[ubonjoe]

53 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

If one is on a 1 year extension and that date arrives before the approval of PR is one extended automatically pending decisions

After the application is accepted and the fee paid you will be able to get 6 month extensions until it is approved.

If the application was not approved you would be able to apply for an extension since you would still be on a non immigrant visa entry. No need to go out for new visa.

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

If one applies in December- how long before it is approved and then how long before the Interior Minister actually signs off.  

 

If one is on a 1 year extension and that date arrives before the approval of PR is one extended automatically pending decisions or does one have to extend under retirement/marriage.

 

Also, if denied- does the person then get to revert back to their marriage or retirement extension of do they need to leave and apply for a new Non O?

 

If a p

 

Sorry - don't have the knowledge to answer your latter questions with authority.Luckily there are some that do here like ubonjoe.

 

As to approval times my understanding is it varies from a year to a couple of years but in recent years there has been a fairly quick response.

[lomtalay]

That's interesting! Can you possibly tell me if you need PR before applying for citizenship? Also, what are the steps needed to process citizenship application? Many thanks!

[Dogmatix]

On 6/25/2019 at 7:31 PM, geoffbezoz said:

Also you need to be aware only 100 of each nationality is accepted for PR application every year.

 

The 100 limit per nationality was only added to stem Chinese immigration in the 50s when it was running at thousands per year and today it still only affects Chinese applicants (Taiwanese and Hong Kong are included in the Chinese quota). I think Indians may have hit 100 once or twice but no other nationality has ever hit the limit or even come close to it. So you don’t need to worry about this, unless you are Chinese.

[Dogmatix]

If you are married to a a Thai and meet the requirements for PR, you also meet the requirements for citizenship which, strangely enough, is a much easier and less expensive process.

 

You can find very detailed threads on both processes elsewhere in TV.

[Dogmatix]

20 hours ago, lomtalay said:

That's interesting! Can you possibly tell me if you need PR before applying for citizenship? Also, what are the steps needed to process citizenship application? Many thanks!

 

PR needed for 5 years, if you are not married to a Thai. Since 2008, a foreign male married to a Thai can skip PR and apply for citizenship directly. See “Story of my Thai citizenship” thread on TV.

 

For foreign women married to Thais it has always been easy to apply for citizenship directly and they have no work requirement, as hubby is supposed to be supporting them.

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 6/30/2019 at 5:33 PM, ThomasThBKK said:

But it's not really point based - even if you get many points they can refuse it.

Happened to my friends...

I said you need to have a minimum number of points before you can even be considered. That doesn't mean, or imply that if you get a particular number of points, you will automatically be approved.

[Dogmatix]

12 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

I said you need to have a minimum number of points before you can even be considered. That doesn't mean, or imply that if you get a particular number of points, you will automatically be approved.

The PR process lacks transparency, as it is largely administered by Immigration which tends to assume that all foreigners are criminals, unless proved otherwise. There have their own secret internal qualifications that are tougher than the published ones and are always adding more complicated requirements. It is not surprising that people, who ostensibly meet all the qualifications, are rejected by Immigration workout even being forwarded to the Interior Ministry. Apart from salary requirements, they look carefully at the employer company. One friend was rejected because his company was not profitable the year before because it had decided to clean the slate by writing off a lot of bad debts. Those working for companies with only the minimum B2m capital to get a WP are routinely rejected without further scrutiny, as they are assumed to be fake companies just to get a WP.

 

Going from PR to citizenship is a breath of fresh air. Special Branch does the processing and is open for applications every working day of the year. They tend to view foreigners as innocent until proved guilty and nearly everyone who meets the qualifications, even teachers earning the minimum salary, gets approved.

[LivinLOS]

On 7/1/2019 at 3:28 AM, jayboy said:

Not really.The procedure for PR has been much the same for decades.It is incorrect to suggest that in the 1990's it was all about money or the people you knew.There was a process as now which had to be followed and has been covered multiple times on this forum notably in Camerata's lengthy post a decade or so ago.Obviously since this is Thailand there will be people who found an "informal" way through but these are the exceptions rather than the rule.

That really doesnt fit with the only guy I knew who had PR.. As said already he could manage to miss pronounce khop khun krap, had zero thai, near zero knowledge or integration to Thai customs, history, etc etc.. In fact he was so miss guided he even thought he had citizenship, in his confused state, and I had to correct what he had, he thought he had to get a visa to travel out of the kingdom (was a re-entry) and a whole long list of other things showing he had none of the points or merit system described. 

He did however, in the years after the 97 currency crisis, bring in 40m baht, and a phuket lawyer made all the arrangements.. 40m and here you go, PR. 

[jayboy]

4 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

That really doesnt fit with the only guy I knew who had PR..

Maybe you shouldn't draw too many conclusions if you only know one guy with PR.I have already said there will always be people who find an informal way through such as the guy in your slightly implausible anecdote.

[LivinLOS]

10 hours ago, jayboy said:

Maybe you shouldn't draw too many conclusions if you only know one guy with PR.I have already said there will always be people who find an informal way through such as the guy in your slightly implausible anecdote.

The point is, late in the 90s, people could get PR for bringing money in, relatively easy, so easy they didnt really even try.. It just happened to him.. 40m baht in and there ya go.. 

I have met a few folks with PR, but he was the only guy I really knew, and hence knew the ins and outs of him being given it. 

[Neeranam]

On 6/25/2019 at 7:43 PM, ubonjoe said:

FYI and others the latest requirements for applying for PR for each category that is dated this month is here in Thai and English.

https://www.immigration.go.th/download/1560937657542.pdf

Now, you say this is the go to date requirements. This shows 2019 date for getting PR for example having Thai dependents. I thought they had speed that route?

[ubonjoe]

20 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Now, you say this is the go to date requirements. This shows 2019 date for getting PR for example having Thai dependents. I thought they had speed that route?

It is still possible but you have to be working and paying taxes.

At one time it was possible to do it without having to work just prove of money in the bank or proof of income. I can recall back to 2008  and it was not possible then. They would not accept a application without proof of working here.

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

It is still possible but you have to be working and paying taxes.

At one time it was possible to do it without having to work just prove of money in the bank or proof of income. I can recall back to 2008  and it was not possible then. They would not accept a application without proof of working here.

Thanks Joe. I assume it would still be the minimum 50k per month.

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Thanks Joe. I assume it would still be the minimum 50k per month.

As far as I know it is still 50k baht income from working to get PR for being married to a Thai and/or having children.

[Dogmatix]

On 7/2/2019 at 5:57 PM, LivinLOS said:

That really doesnt fit with the only guy I knew who had PR.. As said already he could manage to miss pronounce khop khun krap, had zero thai, near zero knowledge or integration to Thai customs, history, etc etc.. In fact he was so miss guided he even thought he had citizenship, in his confused state, and I had to correct what he had, he thought he had to get a visa to travel out of the kingdom (was a re-entry) and a whole long list of other things showing he had none of the points or merit system described. 

He did however, in the years after the 97 currency crisis, bring in 40m baht, and a phuket lawyer made all the arrangements.. 40m and here you go, PR. 

 

I applied in 1996 and I can't remember a category for people bringing in a lump sum. In fact the categories have not changed since then to my knowledge and there has always the investor category which requires a work permit.  The criteria then were no easier than they are today and I knew a fair number of people who were rejected in those days, mainly because Immigration thought their company was not qualified due to lack of profitability or substance. What was much easier was the burden of documentation and the interview process.  Documents only needed to be self-certified or company certified and there was no need for a home country police clearance.  Also the nonsense about photographs of the marital bed hadn't started for those married to Thais or DNA tests for Thai children.  Pertinent to your friend's application at that time, the Thai language requirement was only introduced in around 2003 and the interview panel came in some time after that.  I just had to go to two interviews with an Immigration officer and they allowed you to bring an interpreter.  Also in those days Immigration used to invariably be able to clear the previous year's applications before opening the window for the next year. 

 

I do remember an acquaintance making a big song and a dance about how clever he was figure out how pay a bribe of 300k I think to someone in Immigration through some convoluted channels, which must have taken their cuts along the way.  All he got for that was an abbreviated first interview and exemption from the second interview (which just repeated all the same questions asked in the first interview) and he got his PR in July, whereas I got mine in December. The office was in Soi Suan Plu in those days, which was close to my office, so avoiding the second interview would not have been a big deal for me.  As I believe is still the case today, I am pretty sure that paying baksheesh to Immigration didn't get unqualified applicants through the process because there is still the Immigration Commission to get past beyond Immigration itself.  It just gave them some extra conveniences. I am also sure that many fake "bribes" have been paid to unscrupulous lawyers and brokers who don't pass on any of it to any official. 

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

As far as I know it is still 50k baht income from working to get PR for being married to a Thai and/or having children.

Thanks. I seem to remember something about teachers needing less, but that could have been for the WP or something else.

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Thanks. I seem to remember something about teachers needing less, but that could have been for the WP or something else.

There is no minimum salary for an extension based upon teaching. To apply for PR based on marriage they still would need a minimum income of 50k baht.

For PR based upon working it is 80k baht minimum income.

[LivinLOS]

20 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

I applied in 1996 and I can't remember a category for people bringing in a lump sum. In fact the categories have not changed since then to my knowledge and there has always the investor category which requires a work permit.  The criteria then were no easier than they are today and I knew a fair number of people who were rejected in those days, mainly because Immigration thought their company was not qualified due to lack of profitability or substance. What was much easier was the burden of documentation and the interview process. 

Yet the investor visa now is 10 million, and also needs years on extensions, (possibly no one will confirm) also an income, language etc etc.. 

After the asian currency crisis the 40mil option existed to prop up the baht.. This was a 'bring in the money and have PR'.. Just seems so few fit the ability to bring 40 million that its hard to get reliable info (same as the bring in 40 mil own one rai I hear many times but never get clear info on, BTW this isnt BOI route to it)..

Edited July 5, 2019 by LivinLOS

[landosmiles]

On 6/26/2019 at 7:18 PM, elviajero said:

I don’t know what a “SET tracker” is, but in principle, yes.

I believe he is referring to an index of the Stock Exchange of Thailand - perhaps https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/SET:IND

[landosmiles]

On 6/27/2019 at 10:07 PM, Neeranam said:

Only 40k required if you want citizenship, which is much cheaper and more beneficial than PR.

However, documentation from recent years indicates that PR is required before citizenship (unless applying for citizenship via marriage).

[landosmiles]

On 6/27/2019 at 12:57 PM, elviajero said:

If the investment option also requires you to work and earn 80K pm, what is the point of tying up 10M when you can simply apply based on work?

 

https://www.siam-legal.com/thailand-law/thai-permanent-residency-category-investment/

1. Based on the file linked earlier from immigration.go.th, page 7 deals specifically with the investment category. If working isn't required, why does the investment category requirements include #5 (employment history), #6 (employment certification), and #13 (many photos of applicant's workplace)? (Note that the immigration.go.th document doesn't seem to include any mentions of minimum salaries - maybe the investment category requirements are lower?)
2. The Siam Legal page doesn't mention work (either that it is or is not required), but also doesn't mention many of the other requirements from the immigration.go.th document (health certificate, criminal record, tax form, etc.) so Siam Legal's listed requirements likely shouldn't be considered complete?