Thai tourism in trouble: And competitor Vietnam is "scary" for Pattaya

[Scouse123]

4 minutes ago, lkv said:

Fair enough. I can believe that.

 

It means that it may be just buzz from unhappy Thai expats that wish to relocate.

 

It means Thai authorities are then concerned about losing the Chinese, which is their golden goose.

 

And yes, they have invaded Cambodia, building casinos and Vietnam as you say.

 

You are right about Westerners liking destinations closer to home, i haven't heard many people in Europe saying: hey let's spend 600-800 euros to go to Ho Chi Min. They did however say, let's spend that and go to Thailand, mainly because the image Thailand has created was consolidated over years and years.

 

The trouble is, once newbies see what Thailand looks like nowadays, they will leave with a bad taste in their mouths.

 

The effect will be felt in time.

 

 

 

Good points,

 

And to be fair, Vietnam previously did not particularly welcome westerners and nor were they geared for large tourism, but that has all changed.

 

My son came to Thailand this year with his western girlfriend, he has been many times over the years. He is now 28 years old and has actually been coming for 18 years, as a youngster and now an adult. He is upwardly mobile, great job (in the Nuclear industry), as does she, and plenty of disposable income. These are supposedly the tourists that Prayut and his ilk were aiming for.

 

He knows the country. He came to Isaarn and then went off to Chiang Mai and Krabi, as well as a couple of Southern islands. When I asked him his thoughts, he told me Chiang Mai was ' not his cup of tea ' as he was more beach person. He used to go to Pattaya but after his last trip, three years ago, he decided it was no longer for him.

 

He liked Krabi and the islands but thought once was enough and a case of ' Been there, seen it, done it ' He says that there are just ' more interesting places to go that offer more of what they are looking for '

 

He did two years Australia so he knows his beaches.

 

He found Chiang Mai dirty, and uninviting. Isaarn he enjoyed because I was here and it was a natural upcountry experience.

 

He has told me his next trips will be Vietnam and Myanmar and possibly Malaysia. He has done all he wants to do in Cambodia. No further plans to come here.

 

 

[Traubert]

8 minutes ago, lkv said:

Fair enough. I can believe that.

 

It means that it may be just buzz from unhappy Thai expats that wish to relocate.

 

It means Thai authorities are then concerned about losing the Chinese, who are their golden goose.

 

And yes, they have invaded Cambodia, building casinos and Vietnam as you say.

 

 

The Thais will never lose the Chinese, there's 30m new passport holders a year absolutely dying to get their first stamps. It is what they term FIT's, Free Independent Travellers too. Tour groups are old hat.

 

I can be in Vietnam in two hours, and in Hanoi in eight hours by bus from my city. It's a little known place only slightly smaller than London in terms of populace. I think a lot of people can't really grasp the scale of China. It frightens them.

 

Sure they're building casino's in Laos and Cambodia. I have a wad invested in that. More power to their elbow as far as I'm concerned. Macao just isn't big enough any more. I'd rather be in the tent p**sing out than outside p**sing in.

 

But as far as promoting Vietnam as the new Thailand, nah!

[JackThompson]

8 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Tells me you are not a tourist. 

It tells me Thailand lost his money, and the jobs it supported.   Unless he was working here,  he qualified to be a "tourist," per the relevant Thai laws.

 

7 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Are there new visa regs for normal tourists?

When the law has a "normal tourist" definition in it, get back to me.

 

5 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

They aren't.  They are only making things difficult for the person who lives here and pretends to be a tourist. 

Or, as local businesses call them, "Regular Customers," who can no longer get to their shops to spend money, thanks to Immigration.

 

5 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

You don't have the grasp of the situation that the Thai Immigration people do.  They do not want to become the retirement home for India and China as the middle classes in those two heavily populated countries get more money. 

If that is their concern, set different restrictions for different countries.  They already do this for Visa On Arrival vs Visa Exempt.  Thais who work in the Tourist / Expat sector are very clear about preferring Westerners to those two, so it would be a popular policy.

 

5 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

What does your country count when Thais fly to Thailand 3-4 times a year?  Do they count them as tourists?

Vietnam, The Philippines, and Cambodia do, and welcome them each time.  What does my country far-away with a very different economy and higher wage-scale and benefits / PR for foreign-spouses have to do with it?

 

6 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

But you were not a tourist.

Unless he was working here, he was a tourist.  You can extend as a tourist for years in the Philippines w/o leaving - and could similarly stay in Thailand on successive entries w/o a problem, until recently.  No law was written which changed the rules.

 

7 hours ago, remorhaz said:

I know a lot of people who basically lived in Thailand on back to back tourist visas for years.  They spent loads of money into the economy (true fact).  Most were Western pensioners or close to it and didn't get into trouble with the law.  Now is what they did legal?  No. 

Yes, it is, actually.  There is no legal restriction on "too much time here before" with regard to Tourist Visas.  They could make such a restriction, with a Minsterial Order, but they haven't. 

 

Instead, IOs randomly harass those who some lower-to-mid level type decides has "spent too much time here before," and deny entry.  Then, they stamp "Doesn't have a means of support in the Kingdom" in the passport, to cover their tracks for denying-entry for an Illegal reason.

 

7 hours ago, remorhaz said:

Did it help the economy?  Yes absolutely and that's gone now. 

Which is the point of it all, of course - especially providing lots of entry-level jobs for Thais without many other decent options for income.  But unless Immigration makes a cut on permitted-stays, they just don't care.

 

[JackThompson]

8 hours ago, khunano said:

You Reap What You Sow

The Thai phrase is, "Sum Num Naa".  Immigration is primarily to blame for this, with those setting the Baht rate coming in second.  But before the Baht rose, Immigration's policies directly caused entire sois of prospersous businesses in the Jomtien and Pattaya area to be boarded up. 

 

All they had to do was not abuse people who were obeying the written-laws - but they just couldn't stand the thought of not extorting tea-money from everyone here for more than "a few, short visits."  

 

Their selfishness - given all the Thai jobs lost - combined with the short-sighted nature of their "operation," are mind-boggling.

 

6 hours ago, sambum said:

...

But what is surprising is Immigration making it more and more difficult for ex pats to stay here when they are spending money here all year round - even at 40,000 baht a month (probably on average more than that!) which equates to nearly half a million baht a year per person and they don't want it!!???

Many in Immigration don't care about Thailand or Thais who need the jobs that money supports.  They only care about themselves - what they can "take" above and beyond their salaries.  There are some good ones left - but fewer such offices and entry points with each year that passes.

[Traubert]

45 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The Thai phrase is, "Sum Num Naa".  Immigration is primarily to blame for this, with those setting the Baht rate coming in second. 

The Baht rate is set on the open market. If the Fed choose to do something about it, it'll change.

 

They wont. They don't care about the baht. Small beans to them.

 

There are clearly two types of foreigners in Thailand, expats and tourists. Be one or be the other. You can choose.

 

You can quote the law all you like but you can't change it. They can and they will at their own discretion.

 

That's the harsh reality of life.

[Steve80]

There are many issues.

One that is rarely mentioned, but I have identified is Thai Airways now only offer 20KG of hold baggage on all its long haul flights:

The updated allowance will be effective from 01 April 2019. Tickets bought in L/V/W before 01 April 2019 will have 30 kg allowance.

 

10KG less luggage is a pretty big change, and has to be having some kind of knock on effect.

 

These are all the flights that show up on the airline price comparison websites, and while you can upgrade this to the next level up with more baggage allowance, you can only do this on the Thai Airways website and the flight price is considerably more, making an affordable price very expensive.

 

I can't find another airline that offers such an abysmal low amount. The lowest I can find with other airlines is 23KG, but that also offers more weight allowance for hand luggage.

 

If going away for a few weeks with clean underwear for each day, this allows little weight left (if any) to bring souvenirs back, and the disproportionate cost of extra baggage weight means people will be buying less souvenirs to bring home, as they do not have weight to do so.

[darrenr]

Yes but what are long term/ retirement visa like in Vietnam and Phillipines/Sri Lanka- if they want to get expats and tourist there to spend tourist or expat $ then visas need to be favourable ?

[Hooliganzone]

12 hours ago, Bullie said:

Tourists are opportunistic and go where they get the biggest bang  for their money. This, due to a bad exchange rate and inflated prices (not in the least by the ladies of the night) for practically everything tourists enjoy has not been the case in Thailand for several years now. Practically all surrounding countries now offer more or less the same, but often still more authentic and cheaper experience.

We've seen the same ting happening in Europe: first Italy, then Spain, Greece and Turkey respectively.

Nothing new under the sun.

Also two tier pricing for all attractions, Zoo"s, Parks, National parks as an example THB 40 for Thais THB 400 for Tourists and they wont even accept a Thai driving license as proof you live here disgusting behavior.... You Reap What You Sow and I have no pity for them. Just waiting for the crash now.

Edited July 23, 2019 by Hooliganzone

[darrenr]

6 hours ago, Isaan sailor said:

No longer Thailand.  Call it Chiland.  Too many bilateral trade agreements with the ChiComs.

Do thais originally come from southern China ?

 

 

 

[sambum]

2 hours ago, Yinn said:

Here another one.. 

other country should learn from us. 

 

Let me guess the origin of the figures - TAT?

[Inn Between]

LMAO 

 

No wonder Thailand can't get much done -- none of the "right hands" in gov't seem to know what the "left hands" are doing or agrees with them when they find out.   

 

Even when they seem to catch on that there is a problem, they can never agree on its severity or solution.

 

As mentioned by others, how do you entice people to come when there's growing uncertainty about being allowed into the place and the spending power of your money is no longer very good? 

 

When I left Thailand a couple of years ago to help with family matters, there was no question that when I was freed up from my situation, I was moving back. It was my home for almost 17 years, but over that past few months, I've decided that I too will hopping on a plane to check out Vietnam, hopeful that they still see the value in keeping tourists and expats happy to stay and spend their money. 

 

The Thai gov't and it's IO officers are arrogant and have the mind set that so many people are still clamoring to enter Thailand they can be jackasses to as many as they want because new tourists will always show up to replace the ones who have caught on that it's just not worth it anymore.

 

Edited July 23, 2019 by Inn Between

[Edwin Cameron]

Because of one very rude and arrogant Immigration lady, I shall be vacationing in Vietnam later this year.

[RickTik]

Tourism being down is a blessing for Thailand. Why?

It helps the Thai people protect their natural resources.

Just like there are always "growing pains", there are also "shrinking pains", and maybe even more relevant, "changing pains".

Instead of wanting more and more money, and more and bigger "things", the smart thought now is to protect your natural world and live close to the Earth. 

Expats and tourists who understand this will always be welcome in Thailand. ✌

 

  

[jethro69]

They asked for it, now they shall receive. 

Will be a though fighting a declining economy, but maybe another submarine or a couple of tanks will do.

[plfomylo]

So great ! I wish them the worst economic crisis ever, and I will watch them eating the lobsters that I will pay with my saving abroad ❤️

 

 

[Ireland32]

27 minutes ago, Edwin Cameron said:

Because of one very rude and arrogant Immigration lady, I shall be vacationing in Vietnam later this year.

Stay away from Immigration Ladies, they all want the Drama 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

I think the figures might be "spin".

You can always complain...

https://www.tourismthailand.org/Send-Complaint

 

????

[ttrd]

12 hours ago, Sticky Wicket said:

I've never seen so many pessimistic articles as I have in the last month or so.

It is often when things look the worst that it turns to the better - hope is one of a few things no one can take from us so let us use it for all it's Worth … 

[sunnyboy2018]

16 hours ago, Matzzon said:

That´s great news! Maybe the bigger part of all foreign criminalty in Thailand can move to Vietnam too. Then this nice country can go back to what it once was.

An impoverished third world country?

[Melbun]

16 hours ago, Lucius verus said:

ANZ bank this morning offering 20.9 baht for your hard earned dollars.

You may as well just toss your money over the counter and go home.

PI's and Vietnam with weak currencies are going after the Aussie market as well as new direct  destination sri Lanka. Throw cheap Bali into the mix and others and Thailand is in trouble.

Can't agree more. Even food in the soi's are expensive. Was in Bangkok recently and had a meal on soi 11. Sweet and sour pork, plate of chips and 1 beer - over 500thb. After that hit - I went to Terminal 21 for all of my food except breakfast. Breakfast at the Golden Arches (Asoke) 160thb for an average "big breakfast with coffee". Want a burger ? on soi 11 - at least 250thb. Ridiculous prices.

P.S Bali is ideal for Aussies, cheap flights 5.5 hours from Sydney - cheap destination but Western food can also be a little expensive, cheap Bintang beer. Massages less than $10aus but no naughty stuff. Oil massages start at 400 -500 thb = $20+

Edited July 23, 2019 by Melbun

[bbbbooboo]

Hmmm..... Som nom na?

[sunnyboy2018]

There is no destination in Vietnam that can compete with Pattaya.  But the Thai Baht is so high for many Europeans, Greece, Turkey, The Balkans are fun and cheap with good service....but no Thai girl P4P..For Americans,  they have mexico and the whole of South America.  Thailand is now more expensive and , quite simply less fun under the new authorities. Also horrible for many Thais. There is a terrible fear and depression behind their smiles.

[sunnyboy2018]

6 minutes ago, Melbun said:

Can't agree more. Even food in the soi's are expensive. Was in Bangkok recently and had a meal on soi 11. Sweet and sour pork, plate of chips and 1 beer - over 500thb. After that hit - I went to Terminal 21 for all of my food except breakfast. Breakfast at the Golden Arches (Asoke) 160thb for an average "big breakfast with coffee". Want a burger ? on soi 11 - at least 250thb. Ridiculous prices.

Terminal 21 ...A wide variety of good food for less than 60 baht.  A full English Breakfast or a Sunday roast on Soi 4 less than 400 baht including drinks.

[sunnyboy2018]

1 hour ago, plfomylo said:

So great ! I wish them the worst economic crisis ever, and I will watch them eating the lobsters that I will pay with my saving abroad ❤️

 

 

To wish the Thai people of Thailand ' the worst economic crisis ever' indicates not just immaturity but also a vindictive  streak and more importantly you have never had a Thai friend. Non of us, farang or Thai, want people like you in our lives..anywhere in the world..

really.  I wish you luck , wealth and happiness in your country, which I suspect is Australia. 

[mmushr00m]

Last year we submitted a bid for a marketing contract to the TAT office where I am.

In it we detailed the challenges to the Tourism sector. One of them was Vietnam another was the over reliance on Chinese tourism and how the pivot east will affect other markets.

Needless to say it was a very short meeting.

[hottrader77]

17 hours ago, Metapod said:

Exchange rate is bad, costs are going up, visas are getting a lot harder to get, and more competitive alternatives are arising.

 

it isn't really surprising stuff. Thailand ain't that cheap anymore. Aussie dollar is like 21.7 thb these days. A lot of things are cheaper back in Aus now,

100% true , GBP is now 38.4 to pound and with brexit coming up expected once uk is out of EU the pound can drop within 5 years to 29 baht to pound as UK will have to have a low pound for exports to bring money in to UK so even fewer brits will be coming and EURO will go the same way down , thailand needs to devalue the thai baht to 70 baht to the GBP to get tourists back , i myself am not going back to pattaya or if i do it wont be for more than 2 months as i usually have 6 months off work at a time so i will be going to another cheaper place than thailand , put it this way if i pick up a girl in pattaya nightclub take her home she will want 2,000 baht almost 60 pounds for 1 squirt or 2 if your not too inibriated , its cheaper in england .

[JamJar]

14 hours ago, mike1967 said:

When I first visited Thailand 9 years ago I was able to get a Visa allowing me to stay for 15 months with a border run every 90 days. Now I can only get 30 days unless I want to supply bank statements, return plane ticket etc. If for any reason my Visa is denied then my plane ticket is wasted. I've gone from staying 9 months of the year, contributing upwards of £20,000 a year, down to not even going. What does that tell you? I'm just one person.

 

I also used to do seven to nine months annually. Spending around 90,000 baht per month. No pretending to be any kind of big spender. But when you alienate your loyal customer base, there's no going back for the most part.

It's really becoming a quite horrible place. If you think about the awful airport experience, from the rip-off retail outlets to the abysmal staff and service. Then to think about the frankly diabolical statement from their supposed leader;

 

Quote

“There are always problems with tourist safety. They think our country is beautiful and is safe so they can do whatever they want, they can wear bikinis and walk everywhere,” Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-ocha, who is also the army chief, told government officials. But “can they be safe in bikinis… unless they are not beautiful?” he said, addressing the issue of tourist safety in a speech broadcast live on television.

 

Tourists should just boycott the country completely, until these idiots are removed from the landscape.

[Melbun]

57 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Terminal 21 ...A wide variety of good food for less than 60 baht.  A full English Breakfast or a Sunday roast on Soi 4 less than 400 baht including drinks.

Thanks. Yep Terminal 21 is great - a full 3 course meal for 100thb. Beat that . Hmmm English breakfast / Sunday roast for 400thb NOT good value my friend. That's $20aud - Aussies can do much better at home.Wouldn't pay that much for a meal especially after being stung for a very average meal on soi 11.

Edited July 23, 2019 by Melbun

[simon43]

Complacency - that seems to be the motto of TAT. Do nothing for the benefit of the country because the tourists will keep on coming.  In this case, I'm talking about Chinese tourists, because there are potentially hundreds of millions of them.  Mainland Chinese tourists don't seem to worry about polluted sea, don't worry about dirty beaches, don't use rip-off taxis.  They come for the selfies, get them and go back home.

 

Yinn, you mention that there were 21 buses of Chinese tourists at your friend's elephant camps.  Was that riding elephants?  Don't you understand that riding elephants and using sharp bull-hooks to control them is nowadays considered a cruel practice by 'civilised' tourists?  But those Chinese tourists won't care, and nor will the Thai people who run the elephant camp.

 

 

[Captain 776]

NOTHING has been done to improve Pattaya in the last 14 yrs thay I have lived in Thailand, instead it is allowed to just further decay every year.

Crime rises every year.

If you wear a gold chain in Pattaya, it has maybe a 1 hr life span before it gets ripped from your neck.

Add in the many other things of roadblocks, immigration, why would anyone come there?