Expat group launches online petition calling for TM.30 to be scrapped

[CaptainJack]

I signed it and sent the link to my Thai girlfriend and family to sign.  They are all signing it and sharing on social media. 

 

Thanks for setting this petition up.  It might just make a difference.   I've shared it in my Facebook friends list, and that covers about every Asian country,  and Sweden,  Norway, Mexico and of course,  the USA. 

Edited July 28, 2019 by CaptainJack
Correct a format problem.

[Mikisteel]

Seems a risky thing to be doing. I'm not convinced the right people are involved. It would be better with a Thai organisation involved or at least being the face of it. 

 

I am strongly against signing this, at least do your homework before making the decision.

 

 

[NCC1701A]

42 minutes ago, Puccini said:

 

Is there a link to the Thai translation available?

http://reform-thai-immigration.com/

[BestB]

20 minutes ago, losername said:

I would not put my signature to such an appalling letter. Surely they can find native English language writers and prof readers.

You do of course know authorities will

be reading thai version ? But I guess any excuse to bitch or moan is better than actually doing something . 

 

Here is a thought, instead of criticising, how about you re write it?

[Maestro]

5 hours ago, jackdd said:

Section 37 = form TM28 not TM30

Foreigners who entered Thailand under section 34, this is probably everybody here, are exempt from this 24 hours reporting when going to another province under section 37.

 

The author should understand the laws before making a petition about them.

 

I am glad you brought this up. You are referring to the penultimate paragraph of section 37 of the Immigration Act. The two English translations I have on file give the texts shown below.

 

Translation downloaded from immigration.go.th before the link to it went dead last year:

Quote

The provision of ( 3 ) and ( 4 ) shall not apply to any cases under Section 34 by any conditions as
prescribed by the Director General.

 

Translation downloaded from krisdika.go.th:

Quote

For the provisions of subsections (3) and (4) not to be applicable to any of
the cases mentioned in Section 34 and on what conditions, it shall be prescribed by the
Director-General.

 

If you have a copy of these conditions prescribed by the Director General of the Police Department I should be most grateful if you kindly posted it here, preferably as a PDF file. I have been searching for it for over ten years, without success.

[CaptainJack]

Living and retirement in Thailand is supposed to be about being happy and at peace, not living in fear.  Thailand is destroying their image around the world.   If they want all the westerners gone, they will have it one way or another.   Now is not the time to be timid.  If they don't change these draconian rules and make it really worth staying,  the western expatriate community will eventually be gone.   

 

And I checked yesterday,  because I wanted to know my options for when back in Vietnam for my volunteer work. 

 

The Malaysia 10 year, multiple entry Visa is 1.1 million baht and proof of income,  which I can meet.   But more so. They waive the medical insurance requirements after age 59 and have a guaranteed right of repatriation of your money on deposit. Plus, after one year I can use 33 percent of the Visa deposit to buy a condo if I want.

 

I can go there if I want to and be happy if i want to. And my happiness outweighs everything at this stage of my life.

 

Thailand has probably one chance to get the right.  When all the really old expats are dead and gone,  that will be it.

 

That's why I signed it. 

Edited July 28, 2019 by CaptainJack
Additional information

[NightSky]

I hope it has an effect

 

 

[Date Masamune]

Petition our home countries to apply the same rules and track Thai nationals every step.
 
That would get their attention much more than this petition lol

I’d like to see a law against Thais buying land unless reciprocal rights are allowed, Sounds fair but in our case (US)discrimination against a particular Nationality would be unconstitutional. Dual Pricing would be met with Outrage. We don’t even have a house registration system.

[Sheryl]

Most IOs do not interpret the law as requiring a new TM30 after travel within Thailand and my reading of the law also does not suggest it to be the case.

 

The statement in this petition that the law does require this, is counterproductive, in my opinion.

 

 

 

 

[scoutman360]

2 hours ago, scoutman360 said:

I wish them luck, but after reading the petition, I doubt it. The petition is clearly focused on the pain and suffering of the foreigner.  I don't think immigration has any interest in our suffering at all.

 

I would suggest they focus on the negative impact it is placing on Thailand's economy and the global image of Thailand. Share some factual negative examples and how word is spreading on the internet. This, my friend, will attract the media, newspapers, and the attention they are hoping for.

 

Examples: Thai condo owners not willing to rent to foreigners. Foreign employment talent not coming to Thailand.  Empty condos lead to lower property values (i.e., impact to real estate). Etc.

If you don't believe me on how bad things will get, read this.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2019-thailand-baby-bust/

 

[bomber]

for all unhappy folks.the UK is soon to be "the place to be seen" who needs to be shackled by a federal nation only looking after germany  thailand ????

[Thaiwrath]

9 hours ago, Isaanlawyers said:

 

Of course, you are sure about that. But some people do know generals in Thailand and some high rank people. Contesting in Court was not the best option. I know some high people and we will see. Celebrities refused to be part of that project. We tried.

Have you asked yourself why ?

They are not prepared to put their "so called" fame at risk, by putting their name on a lost cause, and risk repercussions.

Edited July 29, 2019 by metisdead
Please do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes or wording.

[lamyai3]

6 hours ago, Slip said:

There was some small measure of success from the fb page about illegal searching in Tong Lor some years ago, but the situation has since returned to normal.  They also seem to be mobilising again a little.

This was very successful at the time, and went right up to the PM. It wasn't due to Facebook coverage (though it might have started there), but to high level news coverage in the press worldwide - the government was shamed into taking action. You're right in that they seem to be increasing the searches again recently. 

 

The TM30 rule is incredibly onerous, but since it doesn't usually affect tourists in the same way the police harassment did, it's less newsworthy outside Thailand. However, making as much noise about it as possible is the right way to go - it's already moved from the visa and immigration forum to the main news section, and signatures are accumulating pretty fast. It could use some high profile public figures to challenge the government about it (Thai celebrities, influential landlords, opposition parties etc) which would get it onto the front pages, so even if the petition itself fails, it's pushing the perception of this problem more into the public domain. Objection to this piece of law and it's recent enforcement is very high, so I think pressure is going to remain until they either lapse enforcement, reform the legislation, or produce a genuinely workable system for complying with it. 

[lkv]

20 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

It could use some high profile public figures to challenge the government about it (Thai celebrities, influential landlords, opposition parties etc)

 

Why would Thai celebrities encourage criminal activity?

 

It's well known by now that foreigners generally come into the Kingdom to commit crimes. Proof is in the hundreds of articles over the last few years and the thousands of arrests.

 

Which is why TM30 will help authorities protect the Thai population from evil.

 

As for landlords, despite my previous post, surely they don't want a bomb to be assembled at their premises (as per the TM30 Thai language video). If they have nothing to hide (i.e. undeclared money), they have nothing to worry about.

 

It's all for a higher purpose, and Immigration will ensure a smooth experience with reports via the website and the app.

 

I mean, would you not spare a few minutes of your time, for the security of your residence, knowing that indeed, as confirmed by the media, foreigners are mostly criminals?

 

<End of sarcasm>

Edited July 28, 2019 by lkv

[lkv]

I think that, people that wrote this petition, should have watched the Thai language TM30 video first, understand the key rhetoric that is being used as justification for the enforcement of TM30, and work on that angle (if possible), instead of working on "inconveniencing the foreigner" angle.

 

 

[Thechook]

The military won't be impressed with this.  Why poke the bear?  You are only going to make them lose face and make things a lot harder.  Just do as you're told and smile.

[gunderhill]

How many of you signed it?

[gunderhill]

11 minutes ago, Thechook said:

The military won't be impressed with this.  Why poke the bear?  You are only going to make them lose face and make things a lot harder.  Just do as you're told and smile.

Thats the spirit????

[gunderhill]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Most IOs do not interpret the law as requiring a new TM30 after travel within Thailand

BUT some do.

[lkv]

44 minutes ago, lkv said:

understand the key rhetoric that is being used as justification for the enforcement of TM30, and work on that angle

Now I have seen ONE positive article these days about foreigners. Something about "Good foreigner award" whatever.

 

THAT is not good enough.

 

You guys are fighting against a propaganda machine that for the last 4-5 years, has worked relentlessly to damage the image of the foreigner, to justify oppresive measures such as TM30.

 

If they could have done it with the foreigner information form in 2015, and people would have been stupid enough to bite into it, it would have been wonderful.

 

But instead, they had to have crackdowns every week, arrests every week, and so on, over the last 3 years. To come to this point.

 

This point being: videos published on Youtube that cost money to make.

 

Apps on the stores that cost money to make and run.

 

And a general bad perception on foreigners that started to get into the heads of some average Thais already.

(Hopefully, not that many).

 

This is what you guys are fighting against, with the "petition", just to keep it real.

Edited July 28, 2019 by lkv

[gunderhill]

8 hours ago, simon43 said:

Even if immigration ignore this petition, they may not be able to ignore the media reports about this petition.

 

I've signed it.... but am leaving Thailand on 8th August ????

And lets see THAI  VISA AND THE  NATION taking a  stand and doing something really useful.

[gunderhill]

1 hour ago, lkv said:

It's well known by now that foreigners generally come into the Kingdom to commit crimes

Jesus wept! being banned to respond to this may be worth it!

[lkv]

9 minutes ago, gunderhill said:

Jesus wept! being banned to respond to this may be worth it!

If you read to the end, I clearly stated it's sarcasm.

 

However, this is the official rhetoric.

 

Not as direct as I made it sound, obviously, but more discreet, and repeated over and over and over and over again. Over the years. By his predecessors also.

 

"He described the process as "easy, convenient, quick and economical" - it could all be done online without the need to travel.   

 

Then came a reference to foreigners and crime:    Keeping tabs on foreigners in Thailand was important for national security and combating international crime, he observed. 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by lkv

[gunderhill]

Just now, lkv said:

If you read to the end i clearly stated it's sarcasm.

 

However, this is the rhetoric.

 

Not as direct as I made it sound, obviously, but more discreet:

 

"He described the process as "easy, convenient, quick and economical" - it could all be done online without the need to travel.   

 

Then came a reference to foreigners and crime:    Keeping tabs on foreigners in Thailand was important for national security and combating international crime, he observed. 

 

 

got  ya???? ,  just  trying  to  build the  thread  to  the  longest  ever

[CaptainJack]

11 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

Thanks Jonathan for putting this out. 

 

here is Richard Barrows input.

 

http://www.richardbarrow.com/2019/07/sign-the-petition-to-reform-thai-immigration-and-article-37/

My request,  while not as elaborate as Richard's,  will be read by people in a dozen different countries around the world in the next 24 hours.  It is time to stop being a victim,  paying money to live a life of peace.  To live a life of love, happiness and harmony. 

 

With any luck, this will get the attention of his Royal Majesty,  the King of Thailand,  who has the power to set these injustices right.  The western expatriate community has been an integral part of Thailand for 40 years.   

 

We can have hope that those in the Thai government understand that we, the western expatriates of Thailand love Thailand.   Please, don't drive us out.

Edited July 28, 2019 by CaptainJack
Better wording.

[brucegoniners]

Yeah, that’ll get em far, lol

 

Everyone who signs the petition will probably be expelled.

[simon43]

1 minute ago, brucegoniners said:

Yeah, that’ll get em far, lol

 

Everyone who signs the petition will probably be expelled.

Rubbish!  I'm leaving anyway ????

[inThailand]

As with many things here there is short lived enforcement push. Most likley the TM30 enforcement will return to it was before, an unenforced law. No need to stir the pot. 

 

 

[Nowisee]

11 hours ago, SammyT said:

This is awesome. Whether or not they're successful, at least they're doing Something other than just moaning about it online or to their friends.

 I agree.  
The power of the expat community could be used in such a more powerful and efficient manner.   United we stand, divided we fall.
 

[Skallywag]

Skipped to last page here, went to the link and under terms and conditions it states: 

"13. By providing Content to this website you grant to this website a royalty free, perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, non-exclusive licence to use, edit, moderate, copy and make the Content or any part of it available as it sees fit on the this website or on any other website or third party services in any media or technology now known or later developed."

 

Call me paranoid, this seems to say after signing and sending in the petition,  everyone will have access to my name and email address?  Is this normal?